The Enemies of our Enemy...

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kalm
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The Enemies of our Enemy...

Post by kalm »

Seymour Hersh is at it again. It sounds like while the administration was drawing lines in the sand and talking about arming Syrian rebels, the Joint Chiefs were providing Assad with intelligence through the Germans, Israeli's, and even the Russkies to take out ISIS...ISIL...Al Nusra...wtf they are.

Hersh goes on to suggest the military relationship with Russia perhaps isn't as bad as the foreign policy rhetoric and the Russians might be doing more against ISIL than they're letting on. Turkey also appears to be a bad actor in all of this and then there's still Saudi Arabia. :ohno:
Now an explosive new report says U.S. military leadership in the Joint Chiefs of Staff has held that view all along and has taken secret steps to move U.S. policy in that direction. According to award-winning veteran investigative journalist Seymour Hersh, the Joint of Chiefs of Staff has tacitly aided the Assad regime to help it defeat radical jihadists. Hersh reports the Joint Chiefs sent intelligence via Russia, Germany and Israel, on the understanding it would be transmitted to help Assad push back Jabhat al-Nusra and the Islamic State. Hersh also claims the military even undermined a U.S. effort to arm Syrian rebels in a bid to prove to Assad it was serious about helping him fight their common enemies. At the Joint Chiefs’ behest, a CIA weapons shipment to the Syrian opposition was allegedly downgraded to include obsolete weapons. Hersh says the Joint Chiefs’ maneuvering was rooted in several concerns, including the U.S. arming of unvetted Syrian rebels with jihadist ties, a belief the administration was overly focused on confronting Assad’s ally in Moscow, and anger the White House was unwilling to confront Turkey and Saudi Arabia over their support of extremist groups in Syria..........
SEYMOUR HERSH: Well, it began, actually, as I wrote, with a very serious, extensive assessment of our policy, that was completed by June—let’s say by middle of 2013, two-and-a-half years ago. It was a study done by the Joint Chiefs and the Defense Intelligence Agency that came to three sort of conclusions, that may seem obvious now but were pretty interesting then.

One is that they said Assad must stay, at least through—through the resolution of the war, because, as we saw in Libya, once you get rid of a leader, like Gaddafi—same, you can argue, in Iraq with the demise of Saddam Hussein—chaos ensues. The second—so that was an issue, that there—the point being, elections at some point, certainly, but for the short term, while we’re still fighting, he has to stay. And that wasn’t the American position then. And, I would argue with you, I still think the American position is very muddled, although they have seemed to soften it.

Secondly, the other point they made is that their investigation showed this notion of a moderate force just was a fiction, was just a fantasy, that most of the Free Syrian Army, by the summer, by mid-2013, were in some sort of an understanding with al-Nusra, or, as you put it, ISIL, the Islamic State. There was a lot of back-and-forth going—arms going into the Free Syrian Army and other moderates were being peddled, sold, or transferred to the more extremist groups.

And the third major finding was about Turkey. It said we simply have to deal with the problem. The Turkish government, led by Erdogan, was—had opened—basically, his borders were open, arms were flying. I had written about that earlier for the London Review, the rat line. There were arms flying since 2012, covertly, with the CIA’s support and the support of the American government. Arms were coming from Tripoli and other places in Benghazi, in Libya, going into Turkey and then being moved across the line. And another interesting point is that a lot of Chinese dissidents, the Uyghurs, the Muslim Chinese that are being pretty much hounded by the Chinese, were also—another rat line existed. They were coming from China into Kazakhstan, into Turkey and into Syria. So, this was a serious finding.

It was not the first time some of these points had been raised. And there was simply no echo. Once you pass this stuff on to the White House or into the other agencies—the Defense Department does this routinely. These are very highly secret. This study was composed of overhead satellite intelligence, human intelligence, etc., very compartmentalized stuff. But it did go to the State Department and to a lot of offices in the White House and National Security Council. No response, no change in policy.

So, at this point, as I wrote, the Joint Chiefs, then headed by an Army general named Dempsey, Martin Dempsey, who has since retired, decided that they had—that there was a chance to do something about it without directly contravening the policy. And that was simply that we were aware that Germany, the German intelligence service, the German General Staff, had been involved pretty closely with Bashar in terms of funneling intelligence. Russia—and it’s— a lot of people will find this surprising, but the United States military, the military has had a very solid relationship with the leadership of the Russian military since the fall of the Soviet Union in '91. And General Dempsey, in particular, had a one-on-one relationship with the general who now runs the military for the Soviet Union. And so, we knew the Russians and the Israelis were also involved in some back-channel conversation with Syria, with the idea being Israel, sort of very on the margin on this, understood that if Bashar went, what comes next would not be healthy for Israel. They share a border with Syria, and you don't want Islamic State or al-Nusra or any of those groups to be that close to the Israelis. It would be a national security threat for them.

So there was a lot of people, a lot of other services communicating, and so what the Joint Chiefs did is they began to pass along some of this very good strategic intelligence and technical intelligence we have—where the bad guys are, you can put it; what they might be thinking; what information we had. That was passed not directly to Assad, but it was passed to the Germans, to the Russians, through the Israelis, etc. The exact process is, of course, way beyond my ken, but there was no question that was a transmission point. The point being that there was no direct contact, but the information certainly got to him, and it certainly had an impact on Saddam’s—the Syrian army’s ability to improve its position by the end of the year, 2013.
http://www.democracynow.org/2015/12/22/ ... s_military" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: The Enemies of our Enemy...

Post by JoltinJoe »

Hersh has a bit of a checkered and controversial reputation, BUT I wouldn't rule this out.

There is a very fundamental difference of opinion and outlook between the people who serve in this country's military, and the President and his administration. It is not a healthy development. I know very few military people, active or retired, who have any use for the President. They believe he is weak, indecisive, compliant, lacking in respect for the service they give this country, and arrogant in his outlook toward military personnel.
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Re: The Enemies of our Enemy...

Post by D1B »

JoltinJoe wrote:Hersh has a bit of a checkered and controversial reputation, BUT I wouldn't rule this out.

There is a very fundamental difference of opinion and outlook between the people who serve in this country's military, and the President and his administration. It is not a healthy development. I know very few military people, active or retired, who have any use for the President. They believe he is weak, indecisive, compliant, lacking in respect for the service they give this country, and arrogant in his outlook toward military personnel.

Fuck the military. They're petulant, spoiled kids who demand all the attention.

If you're not kissing their ass, they hate you.
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Re: The Enemies of our Enemy...

Post by 93henfan »

D1B wrote:
JoltinJoe wrote:Hersh has a bit of a checkered and controversial reputation, BUT I wouldn't rule this out.

There is a very fundamental difference of opinion and outlook between the people who serve in this country's military, and the President and his administration. It is not a healthy development. I know very few military people, active or retired, who have any use for the President. They believe he is weak, indecisive, compliant, lacking in respect for the service they give this country, and arrogant in his outlook toward military personnel.

Fuck the military. They're petulant, spoiled kids who demand all the attention.

If you're not kissing their ass, they hate you.
You wouldn't be saying that if Hitler had won WWII. :coffee:
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Re: The Enemies of our Enemy...

Post by GrizFanStuckInUtah »

93henfan wrote:
D1B wrote:

Fuck the military. They're petulant, spoiled kids who demand all the attention.

If you're not kissing their ass, they hate you.
You wouldn't be saying that if Hitler had won WWII. :coffee:
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Re: The Enemies of our Enemy...

Post by HI54UNI »

kalm wrote:Turkey also appears to be a bad actor in all of this and then there's still Saudi Arabia. :ohno:
Erdogan is a POS and should not be trusted.
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Re: The Enemies of our Enemy...

Post by SDHornet »

D1B wrote:
JoltinJoe wrote:Hersh has a bit of a checkered and controversial reputation, BUT I wouldn't rule this out.

There is a very fundamental difference of opinion and outlook between the people who serve in this country's military, and the President and his administration. It is not a healthy development. I know very few military people, active or retired, who have any use for the President. They believe he is weak, indecisive, compliant, lacking in respect for the service they give this country, and arrogant in his outlook toward military personnel.

Fuck the military. They're petulant, spoiled kids who demand all the attention.

If you're not kissing their ass, they hate you.
So the Obama Administration was covertly supplying arms to groups with radical islamic ties and this is what you come up with. Me thinks your outrage would be directed elsewhere if, say, a conk was doing this...somewhere in a dark dank basement Spandos is laughing hysterically.
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Re: The Enemies of our Enemy...

Post by AZGrizFan »

SDHornet wrote:
D1B wrote:

Fuck the military. They're petulant, spoiled kids who demand all the attention.

If you're not kissing their ass, they hate you.
So the Obama Administration was covertly supplying arms to groups with radical islamic ties and this is what you come up with. Me thinks your outrage would be directed elsewhere if, say, a conk was doing this...somewhere in a dark dank basement Spandos is laughing hysterically.
No, he probably wouldn't. D isn't that smart.
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Re: The Enemies of our Enemy...

Post by D1B »

AZGrizFan wrote:
SDHornet wrote: So the Obama Administration was covertly supplying arms to groups with radical islamic ties and this is what you come up with. Me thinks your outrage would be directed elsewhere if, say, a conk was doing this...somewhere in a dark dank basement Spandos is laughing hysterically.
No, he probably wouldn't. D isn't that smart.
Got you beat though. :nod:
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Re: The Enemies of our Enemy...

Post by D1B »

SDHornet wrote:
D1B wrote:

Fuck the military. They're petulant, spoiled kids who demand all the attention.

If you're not kissing their ass, they hate you.
So the Obama Administration was covertly supplying arms to groups with radical islamic ties and this is what you come up with. Me thinks your outrage would be directed elsewhere if, say, a conk was doing this...somewhere in a dark dank basement Spandos is laughing hysterically.
Good call, but I'd side with a civilian conk before the military.
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