The CNN Troll Thread

[CAA Flagship]

Holy crap. Swimming blows for parents. You travel for meets and sit around for hours to watch your kid compete for a minute or two.

[GannonFan]

I could do several JSO-length posts on the subject of Travel/Club ball.
I think there is a place for it, but not in place of recreation ball (Little League, Babe Ruth, Pony, Dixie, etc. in baseball).

My son played in the Babe Ruth system and was fortunate enough to play for the All Star team in the national tournament in the summers. The team then morphed into a league sponsored travel team for the remainder of the year. They got to play rec style ball, All-Star style ball, and Travel ball. The All-Star tournament was easily the highlight of the year. Winning a weekend tournament in Travel ball was nice, but nothing compared to playing in the national tournament.

My hometown sent 4 teams to the LLWS since the mid-90's. And were on ESPN two other years in the Regionals. An author from Cali decided to write a book about the town's baseball system while following that year's team. He made it clear that the national tournament was the highlight of the year. The entire St. Louis area is void of any Little League systems. It is all Travel/Club ball.

It can certainly get out of hand. My oldest son has been doing travel soccer for something like 7 years now and I could probably write a book on it by now. Completely about the money - money for the board members of the travel clubs, money for the professional trainers, etc. And at the end of the day the really good kids get plucked out and play academy soccer for an MLS affiliate, which doesn't even charge money, so the people playing travel are just the ones willing to pay a lot of money. My son's decent, but he's not going to be a professional player. We have him in a moderately priced travel team that I know is at least half the cost, or less, than other local clubs. And we still have to fight with the coaches to miss trainings and games in the off-season (i.e. not the fall) when he plays other sports. My middle son plays rec baseball and made the travel team for our rec club (a Cal Ripken club, like Little League). On a whim, they entered a tournament this past weekend at one of those mega-complexes with multiple fields (like 93's photo, but for baseball). Played exclusively against pay-to-play travel teams. Ended up making it all the way to the semifinals. It was fun adding up the cost per year to play of all the teams they beat (most teams were at least $3k per year). One of the coaches couldn't believe all the kids on my son's team live within a 3-mile radius of each other and all go to the same school district. And my son's team finished only second in their district tournament, and won't win in States, so there are plenty of other, better rec teams out there. Some of those travel teams we played are certainly stealing money.

[JohnStOnge]

I think the approach I took meets the definition of ad hominem argument. But feel free to make your case for it better fitting the definition of another logical fallacy. If you're correct I will have learned something.

Don't be lazy- look it up. You even inadvertently named it in your reply

Report back when you have somethinh

I am not going to go through all the definitions of the very long list of logical fallacies in order to try to figure out why you think the definition of one of them better fits the approach I was talking about than the definition of ad hominem argument does.

Let's just say that historically I have tried to avoid attacking a case made by attacking the credibility of the person making the case. I prefer to address the substance of the arguments themselves. But it's getting harder and harder to do that. And I have to say that it's pretty interesting to cite someone who is associated with Breitbart making the case that a particular media personality is biased.

If you want to tell us how you would categorize what I did, that's fine. If you don't, that's fine too.

[CID1990]

Don't be lazy- look it up. You even inadvertently named it in your reply

Report back when you have somethinh

I am not going to go through all the definitions of the very long list of logical fallacies in order to try to figure out why you think the definition of one of them better fits the approach I was talking about than the definition of ad hominem argument does.

Let's just say that historically I have tried to avoid attacking a case made by attacking the credibility of the person making the case. I prefer to address the substance of the arguments themselves. But it's getting harder and harder to do that. And I have to say that it's pretty interesting to cite someone who is associated with Breitbart making the case that a particular media personality is biased.

If you want to tell us how you would categorize what I did, that's fine. If you don't, that's fine too.

No, you WILL look it up, and you will report back to me, Boy.

It is right there in front of you.


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[CAA Flagship]

I could do several JSO-length posts on the subject of Travel/Club ball.
I think there is a place for it, but not in place of recreation ball (Little League, Babe Ruth, Pony, Dixie, etc. in baseball).

My son played in the Babe Ruth system and was fortunate enough to play for the All Star team in the national tournament in the summers. The team then morphed into a league sponsored travel team for the remainder of the year. They got to play rec style ball, All-Star style ball, and Travel ball. The All-Star tournament was easily the highlight of the year. Winning a weekend tournament in Travel ball was nice, but nothing compared to playing in the national tournament.

My hometown sent 4 teams to the LLWS since the mid-90's. And were on ESPN two other years in the Regionals. An author from Cali decided to write a book about the town's baseball system while following that year's team. He made it clear that the national tournament was the highlight of the year. The entire St. Louis area is void of any Little League systems. It is all Travel/Club ball.

It can certainly get out of hand. My oldest son has been doing travel soccer for something like 7 years now and I could probably write a book on it by now. Completely about the money - money for the board members of the travel clubs, money for the professional trainers, etc. And at the end of the day the really good kids get plucked out and play academy soccer for an MLS affiliate, which doesn't even charge money, so the people playing travel are just the ones willing to pay a lot of money. My son's decent, but he's not going to be a professional player. We have him in a moderately priced travel team that I know is at least half the cost, or less, than other local clubs. And we still have to fight with the coaches to miss trainings and games in the off-season (i.e. not the fall) when he plays other sports. My middle son plays rec baseball and made the travel team for our rec club (a Cal Ripken club, like Little League). On a whim, they entered a tournament this past weekend at one of those mega-complexes with multiple fields (like 93's photo, but for baseball). Played exclusively against pay-to-play travel teams. Ended up making it all the way to the semifinals. It was fun adding up the cost per year to play of all the teams they beat (most teams were at least $3k per year). One of the coaches couldn't believe all the kids on my son's team live within a 3-mile radius of each other and all go to the same school district. And my son's team finished only second in their district tournament, and won't win in States, so there are plenty of other, better rec teams out there. Some of those travel teams we played are certainly stealing money.

My sons played in the same baseball system (Cal Ripken division of Babe Ruth). Youngest played on the All Star team that played in the national tourneys, and that team morphed into a travel team the rest of the year. They were good but are usually the underdog being an All Star team from a rec league against the Travel/Club teams.
GF, did your son play on the All Star team, or just the travel team. How did that work?

When we moved to STL, the youngest picked up soccer in a rec league since the baseball scene was so screwed up here. He said he wanted to try it in high school since all his friends are soccer nazis in a soccer crazy town, so I signed him up for the big Club Org in town (Scott Gallagher which is the only org with Academy teams). I did it so he could get the technical training he never got but needed for high school. It was $800 plus another $150 for uniforms. This was for 10 games in the fall and 10 in the spring. Fuck me running. He made his Freshman team, so it wasn't a total waste. He begins the process for the JV team on Sunday. IMO, he is on the bubble.

[UNI88]

It can certainly get out of hand. My oldest son has been doing travel soccer for something like 7 years now and I could probably write a book on it by now. Completely about the money - money for the board members of the travel clubs, money for the professional trainers, etc. And at the end of the day the really good kids get plucked out and play academy soccer for an MLS affiliate, which doesn't even charge money, so the people playing travel are just the ones willing to pay a lot of money. My son's decent, but he's not going to be a professional player. We have him in a moderately priced travel team that I know is at least half the cost, or less, than other local clubs. And we still have to fight with the coaches to miss trainings and games in the off-season (i.e. not the fall) when he plays other sports. My middle son plays rec baseball and made the travel team for our rec club (a Cal Ripken club, like Little League). On a whim, they entered a tournament this past weekend at one of those mega-complexes with multiple fields (like 93's photo, but for baseball). Played exclusively against pay-to-play travel teams. Ended up making it all the way to the semifinals. It was fun adding up the cost per year to play of all the teams they beat (most teams were at least $3k per year). One of the coaches couldn't believe all the kids on my son's team live within a 3-mile radius of each other and all go to the same school district. And my son's team finished only second in their district tournament, and won't win in States, so there are plenty of other, better rec teams out there. Some of those travel teams we played are certainly stealing money.

My sons played in the same baseball system (Cal Ripken division of Babe Ruth). Youngest played on the All Star team that played in the national tourneys, and that team morphed into a travel team the rest of the year. They were good but are usually the underdog being an All Star team from a rec league against the Travel/Club teams.
GF, did your son play on the All Star team, or just the travel team. How did that work?

When we moved to STL, the youngest picked up soccer in a rec league since the baseball scene was so screwed up here. He said he wanted to try it in high school since all his friends are soccer nazis in a soccer crazy town, so I signed him up for the big Club Org in town (Scott Gallagher which is the only org with Academy teams). I did it so he could get the technical training he never got but needed for high school. It was $800 plus another $150 for uniforms. This was for 10 games in the fall and 10 in the spring. **** me running. He made his Freshman team, so it wasn't a total waste. He begins the process for the JV team on Sunday. IMO, he is on the bubble.

$800 for Fall and Spring isn't bad. Reasonable in the Chicago area seems to be just north of $1K with some families paying 2-5 times that for the ultra-competitive teams. My sons play on local teams that are reasonably priced. They're not in line for college scholarships much less professional careers so paying too much doesn't seem very smart. It's more about learning about teamwork, sportsmanship and hard work than the specifics of the sport. The middle one's old team was a bunch of talented local kids who played for the Illinois State Cup 2 years ago. They had to beat an arch-rival with a big recruiting footprint in a very wealthy area in a play-in game and then ended up getting crushed by the Academy type teams. It was cool that these local kids were able to claw their way up to the that level. The team that won it ended up being one of the top teams in the nation.

Pretty good article on youth sports ...
https://sports.yahoo.com/christian-puli ... 26336.html

[BDKJMU]

Wait, I thought soccer was a cheap, poor man's socialist sport?

[GannonFan]

Wait, I thought soccer was a cheap, poor man's socialist sport?

Nonsense, travel soccer is a country club sport in most of the country - the more money you have, the more likely you are to be playing it.

[GannonFan]

It can certainly get out of hand. My oldest son has been doing travel soccer for something like 7 years now and I could probably write a book on it by now. Completely about the money - money for the board members of the travel clubs, money for the professional trainers, etc. And at the end of the day the really good kids get plucked out and play academy soccer for an MLS affiliate, which doesn't even charge money, so the people playing travel are just the ones willing to pay a lot of money. My son's decent, but he's not going to be a professional player. We have him in a moderately priced travel team that I know is at least half the cost, or less, than other local clubs. And we still have to fight with the coaches to miss trainings and games in the off-season (i.e. not the fall) when he plays other sports. My middle son plays rec baseball and made the travel team for our rec club (a Cal Ripken club, like Little League). On a whim, they entered a tournament this past weekend at one of those mega-complexes with multiple fields (like 93's photo, but for baseball). Played exclusively against pay-to-play travel teams. Ended up making it all the way to the semifinals. It was fun adding up the cost per year to play of all the teams they beat (most teams were at least $3k per year). One of the coaches couldn't believe all the kids on my son's team live within a 3-mile radius of each other and all go to the same school district. And my son's team finished only second in their district tournament, and won't win in States, so there are plenty of other, better rec teams out there. Some of those travel teams we played are certainly stealing money.

My sons played in the same baseball system (Cal Ripken division of Babe Ruth). Youngest played on the All Star team that played in the national tourneys, and that team morphed into a travel team the rest of the year. They were good but are usually the underdog being an All Star team from a rec league against the Travel/Club teams.
GF, did your son play on the All Star team, or just the travel team. How did that work?

When we moved to STL, the youngest picked up soccer in a rec league since the baseball scene was so screwed up here. He said he wanted to try it in high school since all his friends are soccer nazis in a soccer crazy town, so I signed him up for the big Club Org in town (Scott Gallagher which is the only org with Academy teams). I did it so he could get the technical training he never got but needed for high school. It was $800 plus another $150 for uniforms. This was for 10 games in the fall and 10 in the spring. **** me running. He made his Freshman team, so it wasn't a total waste. He begins the process for the JV team on Sunday. IMO, he is on the bubble.

The all-star and travel teams for our league are one in the same. They have tryouts at the start of the Rec season and pick the 12 players then. The kids still play the whole Rec season and practice for the travel team is limited to once a week during the Rec season. Once the Rec season is over (early June) they play 5-7 tournaments, including the district tournament, and if they advance, then the state tournament. His team is pretty good, but not even a district champ this year (won last year). Even with playing the more expensive tournaments this year only $300 for the 7 tournaments. Coaches are just volunteers (all Dads).

[CAA Flagship]

My sons played in the same baseball system (Cal Ripken division of Babe Ruth). Youngest played on the All Star team that played in the national tourneys, and that team morphed into a travel team the rest of the year. They were good but are usually the underdog being an All Star team from a rec league against the Travel/Club teams.
GF, did your son play on the All Star team, or just the travel team. How did that work?

When we moved to STL, the youngest picked up soccer in a rec league since the baseball scene was so screwed up here. He said he wanted to try it in high school since all his friends are soccer nazis in a soccer crazy town, so I signed him up for the big Club Org in town (Scott Gallagher which is the only org with Academy teams). I did it so he could get the technical training he never got but needed for high school. It was $800 plus another $150 for uniforms. This was for 10 games in the fall and 10 in the spring. **** me running. He made his Freshman team, so it wasn't a total waste. He begins the process for the JV team on Sunday. IMO, he is on the bubble.

The all-star and travel teams for our league are one in the same. They have tryouts at the start of the Rec season and pick the 12 players then. The kids still play the whole Rec season and practice for the travel team is limited to once a week during the Rec season. Once the Rec season is over (early June) they play 5-7 tournaments, including the district tournament, and if they advance, then the state tournament. His team is pretty good, but not even a district champ this year (won last year). Even with playing the more expensive tournaments this year only $300 for the 7 tournaments. Coaches are just volunteers (all Dads).

Yes. I'm surprised you didn't mention that earlier. With our league in VA, the district/state/regional tournament was the highlight of the year. When my son was 10, we advanced to the SE Regionals in Charleston and were one of 4 teams left standing at the end (out of 20 teams) when we got eliminated. The only thing we did differently was that the rec team coaches nominated their players to tryout for the All Star team at the end of the rec season. The tryouts determined who made the team to play in the district tourney and on the travel team the rest of the year. 14 game regular season in rec. Playoffs would be between 1-4 additional games. Cost was $85 which included uniform shirt and hat. No additional cost for All Star/Travel team other than about $150 for full uniforms (socks, pants, belt, jersey, hat and 2 practice jerseys). Additional costs for Travel tourneys totaling around $250 for rest of the year. All Travel tourneys were within 1-1/2 hour away so no hotel costs. Only hotel costs I paid was for State and Regional. In 2013, my son played around 75 games for the cost of 85 + 150 + 250 = $485 (not including Regional Tourney hotel/travel costs (We hosted the State tourney that year)). That was a bargain.

[andy7171]

Jeesh. I'm not telling you guys what I fork out for club lax. FML


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[JohnStOnge]

I guess Trump will soon have to add Fox News to the "Fake News" list:

Short version:

phpBB [video]

Longer version:

phpBB [video]

Screen snip of another conservative comment on the issue during the long version:



Of course, me, I'm wondering what took these people so long. It's been obvious for a long time now that Trump and those around him operate through lying and misinformation. None of this should be a surprise.

Why lie after lie after lie? That's the way Trump operates. That's how he operated as a businessman. That's how he operated as a candidate. That's how he operates as President. It's his nature. It's what he does. He's a con man. A bullshit artist.

[GannonFan]

Jeesh. I'm not telling you guys what I fork out for club lax. FML


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The exclusive travel soccer teams around here are at least $3k annually. I only pay half that for my son's team (not a powerhouse team by any measure) and that seems like too much to me.

[HI54UNI]

I guess Trump will soon have to add Fox News to the "Fake News" list:

Short version:

phpBB [video]

Longer version:

phpBB [video]

Screen snip of another conservative comment on the issue during the long version:



Of course, me, I'm wondering what took these people so long. It's been obvious for a long time now that Trump and those around him operate through lying and misinformation. None of this should be a surprise.

Why lie after lie after lie? That's the way Trump operates. That's how he operated as a businessman. That's how he operated as a candidate. That's how he operates as President. It's his nature. It's what he does. He's a con man. A bullshit artist.

Shemp Smith was bloviating about something? I'm shocked!

[JohnStOnge]

[


Shemp Smith was bloviating about something? I'm shocked!

It's not just Smith. We are actually starting to see some of the staunch right wing media people get to the point where Trump and people around him are so bad about lying repeatedly that it's just too much.

[93henfan]

Why lie after lie after lie? That's the way Trump operates. That's how he operated as a businessman. That's how he operated as a candidate. That's how he operates as President. It's his nature. It's what he does. He's a con man. A bullshit artist.

Yes. Most of us have known this for 35+ years.

You act like this is news.

We had two horribly dishonest people running for President this time. Both have families and pasts filled with scandal and shady dealings and lawsuits and bad marriages and impeachments.

What observation will you make next? Water is wet?

[Chizzang]

Why lie after lie after lie? That's the way Trump operates. That's how he operated as a businessman. That's how he operated as a candidate. That's how he operates as President. It's his nature. It's what he does. He's a con man. A bullshit artist.

Yes. Most of us have known this for 35+ years.

You act like this is news.

We had two horribly dishonest people running for President this time. Both have families and pasts filled with scandal and shady dealings and lawsuits and bad marriages and impeachments.

What observation will you make next? Water is wet?

Why does every conversation about Trump have to be about two people..?
Can we not discuss Trump as he is
or is he truly only here because of somebody else

I don't get it..?

Just type: Trump
and half the board comes running over to type 2 or 3 other names that are completely unrelated

Apparently
The President of the United States of America
can only be discussed in light of "everybody else"

[kalm]

Yes. Most of us have known this for 35+ years.

You act like this is news.

We had two horribly dishonest people running for President this time. Both have families and pasts filled with scandal and shady dealings and lawsuits and bad marriages and impeachments.

What observation will you make next? Water is wet?

Why does every conversation about Trump have to be about two people..?
Can we not discuss Trump as he is
or is he truly only here because of somebody else

I don't get it..?

Just type: Trump
and half the board comes running over to type 2 or 3 other names that are completely unrelated

Apparently
The President of the United States of America
can only be discussed in light of "everybody else"

I think he's extraordinary and should be marveled at for his own unique accomplishments as POTUS.

[Chizzang]

Why does every conversation about Trump have to be about two people..?
Can we not discuss Trump as he is
or is he truly only here because of somebody else

I don't get it..?

Just type: Trump
and half the board comes running over to type 2 or 3 other names that are completely unrelated

Apparently
The President of the United States of America
can only be discussed in light of "everybody else"

I think he's extraordinary and should be marveled at for his own unique accomplishments as POTUS.

Yeah, Mr. Sarcastic (I actually agree with you)
For example I really do believe that President Trump will (over 4 years) increase US Jobs
Not everybody will agree with his tactics but he seems determined as hell

He might even close some jobs related loopholes
He absolutely has a unique approach on this

[BDKJMU]

Wait, I thought soccer was a cheap, poor man's socialist sport?

Nonsense, travel soccer is a country club sport in most of the country - the more money you have, the more likely you are to be playing it.

Yet poor 2nd world countries continue to almost have as much if not more success in soccer than the US..