RIP - Seattle

[GannonFan]

Meh,
If you're going to call somebody out for the fringe behavior of others based on political brands
You have to own your own as well

We have a president that looks to happily incite violence against others at his weekly rallies
66% of what he says at his rallies is actually false information

and when it actually works - where he succeeds in agitating the masses
We're all left pointing at each other to see who's fault it is

Look no further than our insane leadership and his tactics
The right went insane for 12 months because Obama said some kid might be like his son



If you're having trouble figuring out why our Nation is edging towards insanity
please include the President in your calculations firstly and start there
you know... the leader of the free world and most powerful man on earth

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/3941 ... d-violence

I don't disagree. If I'm supposed to represent white men (which is laughable) I have no qualms calling the MAGA crowd out. The "lock her up" chants are ridiculous. I've called out AlphaGriz and others for mocking Michelle Obama - it's childish and only divides us. Trump is a buffoon and he is certainly flaming the flames...but those embers have been there long before he announced his candidacy. The Republicans had made many stupid errors and statements, like McConnell saying the GOP in Congress' goal is to refuse a 2nd term for Obama. They are all obstructionists.

Like I've been saying - we're uncivil towards each other and it's got to stop. Every time it's brought up, someone on the L says, " well you guys did it first." Sadly, it takes an adult to stand up say, " Regardless of who started it...it's up to US to finish it." But that's political suicide in this day in age. I'm guilty of it, I know. I bring it up to reinforce the fact to Jon, Jeff, Trip that the party they believe to be the right party is just as guilty of mud slinging and dirty politics as the party they bemoan and loathe.

You've seen me say it plenty on here - both parties are awful. Locally, most Republicans are not worth my vote. They seem to not understand the concept that we are not a religious country and don't need to regulate who goes into which bathroom. Nationally, the Democrats are certainly not worth my vote. It's identity over substance and things that matter like immigration or hardening our infrastructure.

It's interesting what we actually agree on. I don't know how accurate this is but it seems to be in the ballpark



I guess what i'm saying is....can't we all just share a beer and be excellent to one another?

This is why Ibanez is easily one of the best posters on this board, bar none. Well said. I ever get back down to Charleston I'll share that beer with ya!

[Ibanez]

I don't disagree. If I'm supposed to represent white men (which is laughable) I have no qualms calling the MAGA crowd out. The "lock her up" chants are ridiculous. I've called out AlphaGriz and others for mocking Michelle Obama - it's childish and only divides us. Trump is a buffoon and he is certainly flaming the flames...but those embers have been there long before he announced his candidacy. The Republicans had made many stupid errors and statements, like McConnell saying the GOP in Congress' goal is to refuse a 2nd term for Obama. They are all obstructionists.

Like I've been saying - we're uncivil towards each other and it's got to stop. Every time it's brought up, someone on the L says, " well you guys did it first." Sadly, it takes an adult to stand up say, " Regardless of who started it...it's up to US to finish it." But that's political suicide in this day in age. I'm guilty of it, I know. I bring it up to reinforce the fact to Jon, Jeff, Trip that the party they believe to be the right party is just as guilty of mud slinging and dirty politics as the party they bemoan and loathe.

You've seen me say it plenty on here - both parties are awful. Locally, most Republicans are not worth my vote. They seem to not understand the concept that we are not a religious country and don't need to regulate who goes into which bathroom. Nationally, the Democrats are certainly not worth my vote. It's identity over substance and things that matter like immigration or hardening our infrastructure.

It's interesting what we actually agree on. I don't know how accurate this is but it seems to be in the ballpark



I guess what i'm saying is....can't we all just share a beer and be excellent to one another?

This is why Ibanez is easily one of the best posters on this board, bar none. Well said. I ever get back down to Charleston I'll share that beer with ya!

Charleston or Charlotte. I'm in both cities quite often.

[Ibanez]

I'll reinforce the statement that I know I often make - I know a lot of the required changes are pie in the sky. They are difficult and they will be met with fierce resistance. We're too entrenched in ideology and we can't see the forest for the trees. There are things that truly matter, like Climate Change, which should be dealt with. But both sides have royally screwed the pooch on addressing it (there's actually a very good NYT article on how/when climate change became so politicized and polarized. I'll see if I can find it). people will say, " I won't be alive to see the negative effects of climate change so why do I care?" but they seem to not care that while they won't see the negative effects, people that they love will. Christian Conservatives, IMO, are one of the worst. If they were true to their religious ideology, then they'd be better stewards of the Earth.

[Bisonfanatical]

All anyone needs to do is type, "Antifa" or "Leftists" into Google. Plenty of hate and anger coming out from that side. Plenty of violence coming from your side. Plenty of incivility.

What about on here? Should we take everyone at face value?.....or are we all just faking it?

Is everyone just feigning anger?......is this all just sarcasm? Locker room talk?

I guess everyone is like Donald J. Trump now......they are just kidding and not serious.....until they are. That wreaks of

I get the feeling that 80% of posters on here are Conks looking to each other off politically and get upset when others with different political views show up to the party.

You have never expressed a political view, unless it is filed with hate filled racial overtones, primarily against straight white males, but also inclusive of any woman who sides against your values.

There is no real difference between your goofy agenda and JSO's goofy agenda .... imo

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[Bisonfanatical]

Under most circumstances that's all true

But in the last couple years there has only been one side that has been advocating "get in their faces" ... encouraging and openly instructing their folks to harass and intimidate people

Even Holder and Hillary have gotten in on the action

I don't recall GOP folks encouraging that kind of thing for the entire 8 years Obama was in office

(But someone reportedly dropped the N word at a rally in DC and it ate up a couple weeks of coverage in the MSM)



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OH BS. Trump has been encouraging violence for 2 1/2 years.

Trump has been encouraging violence against the Press, against minorities, against women.

Of course the straight white guys don't see any of that - you all are among the blindest **** around.

Are you angry because your not a straight white guy or because you must be dillusional if you believe the rest of your post?

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[SeattleGriz]

I'll reinforce the statement that I know I often make - I know a lot of the required changes are pie in the sky. They are difficult and they will be met with fierce resistance. We're too entrenched in ideology and we can't see the forest for the trees. There are things that truly matter, like Climate Change, which should be dealt with. But both sides have royally screwed the pooch on addressing it (there's actually a very good NYT article on how/when climate change became so politicized and polarized. I'll see if I can find it). people will say, " I won't be alive to see the negative effects of climate change so why do I care?" but they seem to not care that while they won't see the negative effects, people that they love will. Christian Conservatives, IMO, are one of the worst. If they were true to their religious ideology, then they'd be better stewards of the Earth.

While I'm not a big believer in the global warming theory, I do agree about being a good steward.

I work to limit my footprint.

[Chizzang]

CID,
If Jon is supposed own the entire Social Justice misbehavior
Why aren't you owning Donald Trumps behavior

What the hell is there for me to own? Why don't you own him? Damn that's disappointing coming from you, Clodz

If you see me minimizing or making excuses for the right trying to terrorize people then feel free to point it out and then Ill be happy to "own it"

I didn't vote for the asshole and I won't vote for him in the next election either - because he's a statist big spender just like his 2016 opponent -

My point is that there are actual Dems like Eric Holder and Clinton who are supporting this new trend of encouraging intimidation tactics after the fact - people are actually doing these things and then theyre getting backup from prominent Dems

Jon didn't vote for Eric Holder either...

The childishness and pettiness has almost entirely been initiated by The President of the United States
Our President has gotten exactly the response he's been working hard for

And the idea that this is all happening somehow in a Liberal Vacuum is pretty short sighted
When The President of the United States is having weekly hate rallies

The only one capable of stopping the "insanity" is the Commander in Chief
Regardless of that fact that the minority of voters voted for him (as you pointed out) including yourself

The ball still tests neatly in his court
The President has to be the voice of reason and the leader
Expecting leadership to come from behind is where the Republicans are getting it wrong

[Bisonfanatical]

I'll reinforce the statement that I know I often make - I know a lot of the required changes are pie in the sky. They are difficult and they will be met with fierce resistance. We're too entrenched in ideology and we can't see the forest for the trees. There are things that truly matter, like Climate Change, which should be dealt with. But both sides have royally screwed the pooch on addressing it (there's actually a very good NYT article on how/when climate change became so politicized and polarized. I'll see if I can find it). people will say, " I won't be alive to see the negative effects of climate change so why do I care?" but they seem to not care that while they won't see the negative effects, people that they love will. Christian Conservatives, IMO, are one of the worst. If they were true to their religious ideology, then they'd be better stewards of the Earth.

I agree with a lot of your posts.

That being said, climate change is not a settled issue accepted by both sides, I can't dismiss it completely or accept it completely until it moves from a theory to a fact.
That is hard to do when a lot of the supporting climate data is conjecture.

When the "world" (UN) has a solution, which is to tax and cap industrialized countries (primarily ours) and gives a pass to growing economies like china (lmao) even though they are the biggest global polluters, you really can't blame people for scoffing at it.

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[Ibanez]

I'll reinforce the statement that I know I often make - I know a lot of the required changes are pie in the sky. They are difficult and they will be met with fierce resistance. We're too entrenched in ideology and we can't see the forest for the trees. There are things that truly matter, like Climate Change, which should be dealt with. But both sides have royally screwed the pooch on addressing it (there's actually a very good NYT article on how/when climate change became so politicized and polarized. I'll see if I can find it). people will say, " I won't be alive to see the negative effects of climate change so why do I care?" but they seem to not care that while they won't see the negative effects, people that they love will. Christian Conservatives, IMO, are one of the worst. If they were true to their religious ideology, then they'd be better stewards of the Earth.

While I'm not a big believer in the global warming theory, I do agree about being a good steward.

I work to limit my footprint.

I think it's absurd to look at all the pollutants we've put into the atmosphere and waters since the Industrial Revolution and NOT think that it hasn't had some effect. I think the pro-climate changers have been screwed by doctored science. It's another one of those issues where people argue more about the cause than the effect. That's all I see/hear. Republicans only seem to want to dispel any notion that humans are to blame (or share in the blame).


I too try to limit my footprint. My wife and I talked about it the other day. It's great to do it for yourself, but until Governments get involved to help initiate the changes, then it feels damn near pointless to do anything. And it'll take more than reducing emissions from vehicles. It goes into what/how we eat and how we live.

[Ibanez]

I'll reinforce the statement that I know I often make - I know a lot of the required changes are pie in the sky. They are difficult and they will be met with fierce resistance. We're too entrenched in ideology and we can't see the forest for the trees. There are things that truly matter, like Climate Change, which should be dealt with. But both sides have royally screwed the pooch on addressing it (there's actually a very good NYT article on how/when climate change became so politicized and polarized. I'll see if I can find it). people will say, " I won't be alive to see the negative effects of climate change so why do I care?" but they seem to not care that while they won't see the negative effects, people that they love will. Christian Conservatives, IMO, are one of the worst. If they were true to their religious ideology, then they'd be better stewards of the Earth.

I agree with a lot of your posts.

That being said, climate change is not a settled issue accepted by both sides, I can't dismiss it completely or accept it completely until it moves from a theory to a fact.
That is hard to do when a lot of the supporting climate data is conjecture.

When the "world" (UN) has a solution, which is to tax and cap industrialized countries (primarily ours) and gives a pass to growing economies like china (lmao) even though they are the biggest global polluters, you really can't blame people for scoffing at it.

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I agree and that's a valid argument. It's been politicized so facts be damned. But there are visual things that we are seeing, like the ice in NW Passage being greatly reduced. Warmer temperatures. Is it a combo of a natural cycle and human industry? If at the very least we can stop polluting the world, maybe we can make the coming change a little more bearable.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-45775309

[SeattleGriz]

While I'm not a big believer in the global warming theory, I do agree about being a good steward.

I work to limit my footprint.

I think it's absurd to look at all the pollutants we've put into the atmosphere and waters since the Industrial Revolution and NOT think that it hasn't had some effect. I think the pro-climate changers have been screwed by doctored science. It's another one of those issues where people argue more about the cause than the effect. That's all I see/hear. Republicans only seem to want to dispel any notion that humans are to blame (or share in the blame).


I too try to limit my footprint. My wife and I talked about it the other day. It's great to do it for yourself, but until Governments get involved to help initiate the changes, then it feels damn near pointless to do anything. And it'll take more than reducing emissions from vehicles. It goes into what/how we eat and how we live.

Ive said it before and agree again with you here. I too am worried we are poisoning ourselves and don't realize it.

This is my biggest concern. Our house is pretty much free of synthetic chemicals. Try to use as close to natural.

Its interesting to see people tell me all the reasons why organic food is not worth, but yet never address my main concern. I don't want chemicals on my food and if I must, natural insecticides and herbicides are preferred.

[Winterborn]

I agree and that's a valid argument. It's been politicized so facts be damned. But there are visual things that we are seeing, like the ice in NW Passage being greatly reduced. Warmer temperatures. Is it a combo of a natural cycle and human industry? If at the very least we can stop polluting the world, maybe we can make the coming change a little more bearable.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-45775309

That is what it really boils down to. How much of is a natural cycle vs. human industry. Some believe one way, others believe another and both sides use "science" to support their claims.

I am a firm believer in reducing certain chemicals and practices but that needs to be based on fact not politicized pseudo-science. Both sides fund research to find what they want to support their position, instead of the other way around.

[Ibanez]

I think it's absurd to look at all the pollutants we've put into the atmosphere and waters since the Industrial Revolution and NOT think that it hasn't had some effect. I think the pro-climate changers have been screwed by doctored science. It's another one of those issues where people argue more about the cause than the effect. That's all I see/hear. Republicans only seem to want to dispel any notion that humans are to blame (or share in the blame).


I too try to limit my footprint. My wife and I talked about it the other day. It's great to do it for yourself, but until Governments get involved to help initiate the changes, then it feels damn near pointless to do anything. And it'll take more than reducing emissions from vehicles. It goes into what/how we eat and how we live.

Ive said it before and agree again with you here. I too am worried we are poisoning ourselves and don't realize it.

This is my biggest concern. Our house is pretty much free of synthetic chemicals. Try to use as close to natural.

Its interesting to see people tell me all the reasons why organic food is not worth, but yet never address my main concern. I don't want chemicals on my food and if I must, natural insecticides and herbicides are preferred.

Of course we're poisoning ourselves.

It's like the people that say they don't buy healthier foods b/c it's too expensive. So they eat like shit (b/c it's "cheaper") and then pay tons of money on health insurance premiums b/c they have all these health issues. Many of which they wouldn't have if they just ate healthier. I understand that genetics make some things moot, I eat fairly healthy but am on prescriptions for high blood pressure and high cholesterol (but I think I can maybe make a few adjustments and get rid of the pills). Plenty of people have eaten healthier and have been able to no longer be diabetic. Or obese. Food plays such a crucial role. I wish our schools, next to financial literacy, did a better job at teaching kids how to be healthier.

[Ibanez]

I agree and that's a valid argument. It's been politicized so facts be damned. But there are visual things that we are seeing, like the ice in NW Passage being greatly reduced. Warmer temperatures. Is it a combo of a natural cycle and human industry? If at the very least we can stop polluting the world, maybe we can make the coming change a little more bearable.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-45775309

That is what it really boils down to. How much of is a natural cycle vs. human industry. Some believe one way, others believe another and both sides use "science" to support their claims.

I am a firm believer in reducing certain chemicals and practices but that needs to be based on fact not politicized pseudo-science. Both sides fund research to find what they want to support their position, instead of the other way around.

Yup. Both sides are guilty of it. Why aren't we using more renewable resources or cleaner energy?

[AZGrizFan]

That is what it really boils down to. How much of is a natural cycle vs. human industry. Some believe one way, others believe another and both sides use "science" to support their claims.

I am a firm believer in reducing certain chemicals and practices but that needs to be based on fact not politicized pseudo-science. Both sides fund research to find what they want to support their position, instead of the other way around.

Yup. Both sides are guilty of it. Why aren't we using more renewable resources or cleaner energy?

Renewable energy: employing 40% of the workforce in the industry, producing 4% of the power. That is not a sustainable model.

Case closed.

[Winterborn]

That is what it really boils down to. How much of is a natural cycle vs. human industry. Some believe one way, others believe another and both sides use "science" to support their claims.

I am a firm believer in reducing certain chemicals and practices but that needs to be based on fact not politicized pseudo-science. Both sides fund research to find what they want to support their position, instead of the other way around.

Yup. Both sides are guilty of it. Why aren't we using more renewable resources or cleaner energy?[/quote]

You already know the answer to that question. Basically it comes down to special interest groups that want their flavor of the month (technology wise) as the only acceptable resource. People are looking for the one solution to solve all the problems (along with the other power generation technology is evil and must be banned). In my opinion it is going to take several different technologies to start with, and as other mature or new ones invented, they can be substituted in place of older tech. The energy sector politics are similar to our national politics, "if you are not for me, you are against me".

[CAA Flagship]

I agree and that's a valid argument. It's been politicized so facts be damned. But there are visual things that we are seeing, like the ice in NW Passage being greatly reduced. Warmer temperatures. Is it a combo of a natural cycle and human industry? If at the very least we can stop polluting the world, maybe we can make the coming change a little more bearable.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-45775309

That is what it really boils down to. How much of is a natural cycle vs. human industry. Some believe one way, others believe another and both sides use "science" to support their claims.

I am a firm believer in reducing certain chemicals and practices but that needs to be based on fact not politicized pseudo-science. Both sides fund research to find what they want to support their position, instead of the other way around.

Why has the focus gone away from the disappearing rainforests?

[Ibanez]

Yup. Both sides are guilty of it. Why aren't we using more renewable resources or cleaner energy?

Renewable energy: employing 40% of the workforce in the industry, producing 4% of the power. That is not a sustainable model.

Case closed.

So let's keep using non-renewable energy. Sounds like a sustainable model.


See, that's the mindset that gets nothing done.

[Ibanez]

Yup. Both sides are guilty of it. Why aren't we using more renewable resources or cleaner energy?

You already know the answer to that question. Basically it comes down to special interest groups that want their flavor of the month (technology wise) as the only acceptable resource. People are looking for the one solution to solve all the problems (along with the other power generation technology is evil and must be banned). In my opinion it is going to take several different technologies to start with, and as other mature or new ones invented, they can be substituted in place of older tech. The energy sector politics are similar to our national politics, "if you are not for me, you are against me". [/quote]
I agree. It's going to be a combination (much like it is today with oil/coal/nuclear/solar/hydroelectirc/wind).

[Winterborn]

I agree. It's going to be a combination (much like it is today with oil/coal/nuclear/solar/hydroelectirc/wind).

I think natgas is going to play a much larger roll in electrical generation in the future. Might even start supplanting some smaller and older coal plants. It is cheap (thanks fracking!) and clean.

[css75]

I noticed Jeff and Jon split when they were called out. I am all for a clean environment, don’t know anyone who is against it.

But, when China and other countries are not held to the same standard as we are then it as all bogus.


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[Ibanez]

I noticed Jeff and Jon split when they were called out. I am all for a clean environment, don’t know anyone who is against it.

But, when China and other countries are not held to the same standard as we are then it as all bogus.


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Yes, they need to be held to the same standard. But isn’t the US the #1 culprit? We need to lead by example.


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[css75]

I noticed Jeff and Jon split when they were called out. I am all for a clean environment, don’t know anyone who is against it.

But, when China and other countries are not held to the same standard as we are then it as all bogus.


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Yes, they need to be held to the same standard. But isn’t the US the #1 culprit? We need to lead by example.


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No, China is a lot worse than we are.


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[Winterborn]

I noticed Jeff and Jon split when they were called out. I am all for a clean environment, don’t know anyone who is against it.

But, when China and other countries are not held to the same standard as we are then it as all bogus.


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Yes, they need to be held to the same standard. But isn’t the US the #1 culprit? We need to lead by example.


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Not among industrialized nations. Air quality and pollution in China (and India) is bad. They needed electrical power so they built and are continuing to build coal plants. Most use the local version of coal which is very high in sulfur and other contaminates. They import a lot of coal, some from the U.S. and I believe the current new coal capacity under construction is 250GW, which is larger than the entire coal generation capacity in the U.S. combined. China already generates almost 1000GW of electricity by coal and is largest user of coal generated electricity in the world. Their newer plants do have some of the air filtration systems that the U.S. has, but not their older ones and most cannot be retrofitted due to design and costs. All this despite being signatories in the Kyoto Protocol and other climate change legislation. They talk a good talk in front of the camera but not when it actually comes down to implementing the details.

[Bisonfanatical]

I noticed Jeff and Jon split when they were called out. I am all for a clean environment, don’t know anyone who is against it.

But, when China and other countries are not held to the same standard as we are then it as all bogus.


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Yes, they need to be held to the same standard. But isn’t the US the #1 culprit? We need to lead by example.


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I understand that China is the #1 culprit.

We can give more leeway to other developing countries (to a point) but China has waaaay to much power now. They can't be given a pass at our expense anymore ... expecially once we bring this trade deficit into line.

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