2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Post by Skjellyfetti »

Buttigieg/Amash 2020 ;)
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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Post by kalm »

89Hen wrote:So nothing on the debate last night? Mrs and I actually watched most of it. Was better than the first debates IMO. My take...

Winners: Mayor Pete, Yang, Klobuchar, Harris

Losers: Biden, Sanders , Warren, Booker

Meh: Gabbard, Steyer

Mrs89 watched the end from bed, so it was still on MSNBC when I walked in. They had Michael Moore on. He's so out of touch. :rofl:

Black woman commentator (no idea who she was) said it was clear that the two big winners were... Harris and Booker, shocker. I'm not saying that the GOP is going to win the black vote, but I'm guessing extremely low turnout if Harris doesn't get the nom or VP. Booker threw up a hail mary last night pointing out he was not on the December debate. Looked very weak.
Wait a minute...so you’re telling me you found the center right candidates more appealing? :shock:
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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote:
89Hen wrote:So nothing on the debate last night? Mrs and I actually watched most of it. Was better than the first debates IMO. My take...

Winners: Mayor Pete, Yang, Klobuchar, Harris

Losers: Biden, Sanders , Warren, Booker

Meh: Gabbard, Steyer

Mrs89 watched the end from bed, so it was still on MSNBC when I walked in. They had Michael Moore on. He's so out of touch. :rofl:

Black woman commentator (no idea who she was) said it was clear that the two big winners were... Harris and Booker, shocker. I'm not saying that the GOP is going to win the black vote, but I'm guessing extremely low turnout if Harris doesn't get the nom or VP. Booker threw up a hail mary last night pointing out he was not on the December debate. Looked very weak.
Wait a minute...so you’re telling me you found the center right candidates more appealing? :shock:
There's nothing center/right about any of those candidates. Biden is the furthest "right" of that group, and he's moved solidly left from Obama's administration in the past 3 years.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Post by 89Hen »

kalm wrote:
89Hen wrote:So nothing on the debate last night? Mrs and I actually watched most of it. Was better than the first debates IMO. My take...

Winners: Mayor Pete, Yang, Klobuchar, Harris

Losers: Biden, Sanders , Warren, Booker

Meh: Gabbard, Steyer

Mrs89 watched the end from bed, so it was still on MSNBC when I walked in. They had Michael Moore on. He's so out of touch. :rofl:

Black woman commentator (no idea who she was) said it was clear that the two big winners were... Harris and Booker, shocker. I'm not saying that the GOP is going to win the black vote, but I'm guessing extremely low turnout if Harris doesn't get the nom or VP. Booker threw up a hail mary last night pointing out he was not on the December debate. Looked very weak.
Wait a minute...so you’re telling me you found the center right candidates more appealing? :shock:
FTR, none of them are appealing to me. I'm just giving you who I think won or lost based on their performance. Biden proved once again he has not aged well. Warren and Sanders offered nothing new and nothing of substance. Booker honestly sounded like a pussy last night, especially in his closing statements where he came across as asking for sympathy votes to get him on the December roster.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Post by GannonFan »

There's zero momentum for Warren and Sanders at this point, and Biden looks like he's aged another 5 years with every debate. There's a reason why there's a panic and guys like Bloomberg and Patrick are getting into the race - I'm not sure the top 3 can beat Trump at this point. Mayor Pete, I think, has a chance, but kalm probably doesn't like that he's been pivoting to the right (relatively speaking) since it became clear Biden may not even make it to the general election. Impeachment isn't helping much in this, as with all things Trump, it's sucking the air out of the room and leaving little for the potential nominees to use to their own advantage.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Post by CID1990 »

Skjellyfetti wrote:Buttigieg/Amash 2020 ;)
That would guarantee my vote. Best ticket since Reagan Bush

You’d see conservative groups analogous to the Reagan Democrats if that ticket happened


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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Post by Pwns »

Don't get the appeal of Buttgig. He seems like kind of an Obama-esque empty suit to me. Maybe he's just the default guy to latch onto for white people who find Joe too goofy and Bernie and Lizzie too radical?
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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Post by CID1990 »

Pwns wrote:Don't get the appeal of Buttgig. He seems like kind of an Obama-esque empty suit to me. Maybe he's just the default guy to latch onto for white people who find Joe too goofy and Bernie and Lizzie too radical?
He’s a centrist in several areas and where he isn’t, he won’t get anything done.

I’m just happy Warren is fading. I can stomach Boot Edge Edge. Bernie doesn’t have a prayer and Biden is just about done.

And Trump has served his purpose for those of us who aren’t in knee-jerk opposition to each and every one of his policies. The one thing I’d like to see continue is the tough stance on China. I don’t thing BEE would ease up on that, so we’re good there, I think.


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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Post by Ivytalk »

CID1990 wrote:
Pwns wrote:Don't get the appeal of Buttgig. He seems like kind of an Obama-esque empty suit to me. Maybe he's just the default guy to latch onto for white people who find Joe too goofy and Bernie and Lizzie too radical?
He’s a centrist in several areas and where he isn’t, he won’t get anything done.

I’m just happy Warren is fading. I can stomach Boot Edge Edge. Bernie doesn’t have a prayer and Biden is just about done.

And Trump has served his purpose for those of us who aren’t in knee-jerk opposition to each and every one of his policies. The one thing I’d like to see continue is the tough stance on China. I don’t thing BEE would ease up on that, so we’re good there, I think.


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Butticheek’s economic policies are pretty far to the left. I don’t see any consistent libertarian basis to vote for the guy.

There is a pretty strong debate going on in the LP between those who are open to accepting certain Donks on cannabis/social issues/4th Amendment grounds and those who aren’t.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Post by CID1990 »

Ivytalk wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
He’s a centrist in several areas and where he isn’t, he won’t get anything done.

I’m just happy Warren is fading. I can stomach Boot Edge Edge. Bernie doesn’t have a prayer and Biden is just about done.

And Trump has served his purpose for those of us who aren’t in knee-jerk opposition to each and every one of his policies. The one thing I’d like to see continue is the tough stance on China. I don’t thing BEE would ease up on that, so we’re good there, I think.


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Butticheek’s economic policies are pretty far to the left. I don’t see any consistent libertarian basis to vote for the guy.

There is a pretty strong debate going on in the LP between those who are open to accepting certain Donks on cannabis/social issues/4th Amendment grounds and those who aren’t.
On his own? No I couldn’t vote for him, either.

But with Amash in his ear? I could do that.

But it is just a thought exercise - it’ll never happen. Or could it?


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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Post by houndawg »

GannonFan wrote:There's zero momentum for Warren and Sanders at this point, and Biden looks like he's aged another 5 years with every debate. There's a reason why there's a panic and guys like Bloomberg and Patrick are getting into the race - I'm not sure the top 3 can beat Trump at this point. Mayor Pete, I think, has a chance, but kalm probably doesn't like that he's been pivoting to the right (relatively speaking) since it became clear Biden may not even make it to the general election. Impeachment isn't helping much in this, as with all things Trump, it's sucking the air out of the room and leaving little for the potential nominees to use to their own advantage.
He makes the right sounds, for a weasel.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Post by kalm »

GannonFan wrote:There's zero momentum for Warren and Sanders at this point, and Biden looks like he's aged another 5 years with every debate. There's a reason why there's a panic and guys like Bloomberg and Patrick are getting into the race - I'm not sure the top 3 can beat Trump at this point. Mayor Pete, I think, has a chance, but kalm probably doesn't like that he's been pivoting to the right (relatively speaking) since it became clear Biden may not even make it to the general election. Impeachment isn't helping much in this, as with all things Trump, it's sucking the air out of the room and leaving little for the potential nominees to use to their own advantage.
Butti is another supplemental insurance policy for the establishment. Gay veteran economic status quo seems like a winning combo. He’s rhetorically a classic politician and his obvious sincerity and willingness to not take a stand appeal to fundamentalist independents. :nod:

In other words...what Houndy said ^^^^^^^^

:lol:
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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Post by kalm »

Pwns wrote:Don't get the appeal of Buttgig. He seems like kind of an Obama-esque empty suit to me. Maybe he's just the default guy to latch onto for white people who find Joe too goofy and Bernie and Lizzie too radical?
Also this.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote:
GannonFan wrote:There's zero momentum for Warren and Sanders at this point, and Biden looks like he's aged another 5 years with every debate. There's a reason why there's a panic and guys like Bloomberg and Patrick are getting into the race - I'm not sure the top 3 can beat Trump at this point. Mayor Pete, I think, has a chance, but kalm probably doesn't like that he's been pivoting to the right (relatively speaking) since it became clear Biden may not even make it to the general election. Impeachment isn't helping much in this, as with all things Trump, it's sucking the air out of the room and leaving little for the potential nominees to use to their own advantage.
Butti is another supplemental insurance policy for the establishment. Gay veteran economic status quo seems like a winning combo. He’s rhetorically a classic politician and his obvious sincerity and willingness to not take a stand appeal to fundamentalist independents. :nod:

In other words...what Houndy said ^^^^^^^^

:lol:
He's really helped by having Warren and Sanders in the race - when you stand next to extreme radicalism, you tend to look decent by comparison. Oh, and he's young, so Biden's advancing age helps Pete in that regard too.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Post by kalm »

GannonFan wrote:
kalm wrote:
Butti is another supplemental insurance policy for the establishment. Gay veteran economic status quo seems like a winning combo. He’s rhetorically a classic politician and his obvious sincerity and willingness to not take a stand appeal to fundamentalist independents. :nod:

In other words...what Houndy said ^^^^^^^^

:lol:
He's really helped by having Warren and Sanders in the race - when you stand next to extreme radicalism, you tend to look decent by comparison. Oh, and he's young, so Biden's advancing age helps Pete in that regard too.
“Extreme radicalism”.... :lol:

You sound like Chris Matthews the other night chastising Bernie for suggesting our system is corrupt.

Following is comforting. :nod:
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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote:
GannonFan wrote:
He's really helped by having Warren and Sanders in the race - when you stand next to extreme radicalism, you tend to look decent by comparison. Oh, and he's young, so Biden's advancing age helps Pete in that regard too.
“Extreme radicalism”.... :lol:

You sound like Chris Matthews the other night chastising Bernie for suggesting our system is corrupt.

Following is comforting. :nod:
On the political scale, they ARE extreme from the norm. Maybe not to YOU, but they are. :nod: :nod: :nod:
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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Post by kalm »

AZGrizFan wrote:
kalm wrote:
“Extreme radicalism”.... :lol:

You sound like Chris Matthews the other night chastising Bernie for suggesting our system is corrupt.

Following is comforting. :nod:
On the political scale, they ARE extreme from the norm. Maybe not to YOU, but they are. :nod: :nod: :nod:
On what political scale?

The establishment media political scale? Sure and that’s my drum.

Polling of voters on the issues? Nope.

Economic history? Nope.

Compared to the rest of the Western world? Nope.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
On the political scale, they ARE extreme from the norm. Maybe not to YOU, but they are. :nod: :nod: :nod:
On what political scale?

The establishment media political scale? Sure and that’s my drum.

Polling of voters on the issues? Nope.

Economic history? Nope.

Compared to the rest of the Western world? Nope.
On the "how they do in elections in this country" scale. I know, that's far too practical and mundane for you, but it is what it is. :coffee:
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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
On the political scale, they ARE extreme from the norm. Maybe not to YOU, but they are. :nod: :nod: :nod:
On what political scale?

The establishment media political scale? Sure and that’s my drum.

Polling of voters on the issues? Nope.

Economic history? Nope.

Compared to the rest of the Western world? Nope.
I think the polling flips if you tell people how much their taxes are going to increase in order to pay for all of that "free" sh!t that Warren and Sanders are proposing.

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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote:
kalm wrote:
On what political scale?

The establishment media political scale? Sure and that’s my drum.

Polling of voters on the issues? Nope.

Economic history? Nope.

Compared to the rest of the Western world? Nope.
I think the polling flips if you tell people how much their taxes are going to increase in order to pay for all of that "free" sh!t that Warren and Sanders are proposing.
It might. Especially when you don’t tell them they’ll pay about half of what they currently spend on annual premiums, prescriptions, and basic care making it a net positive gain.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Post by CID1990 »

kalm wrote:
UNI88 wrote:
I think the polling flips if you tell people how much their taxes are going to increase in order to pay for all of that "free" sh!t that Warren and Sanders are proposing.
It might. Especially when you don’t tell them they’ll pay about half of what they currently spend on annual premiums, prescriptions, and basic care making it a net positive gain.
That’s the left’s “Mexico will pay for it” bullshit right there

And somebody most certainly will pay for it. Just because Warren dodges the question on whose taxes will go up significantly (spoiler: the people who need the “savings” the most) doesn’t make the idea solvent


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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote:
UNI88 wrote:
I think the polling flips if you tell people how much their taxes are going to increase in order to pay for all of that "free" sh!t that Warren and Sanders are proposing.
It might. Especially when you don’t tell them they’ll pay about half of what they currently spend on annual premiums, prescriptions, and basic care making it a net positive gain.
Ah yes, the political unicorn. It's a magical medical plan, that's for sure. :rofl:
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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Post by UNI88 »

CID1990 wrote:
kalm wrote:
It might. Especially when you don’t tell them they’ll pay about half of what they currently spend on annual premiums, prescriptions, and basic care making it a net positive gain.
That’s the left’s “Mexico will pay for it” bullshit right there

And somebody most certainly will pay for it. Just because Warren dodges the question on whose taxes will go up significantly (spoiler: the people who need the “savings” the most) doesn’t make the idea solvent

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CID is right. There is a whole lot more "free" sh!t that Warren and Sanders are proposing then just healthcare and there aren't enough wealthy people with enough money to tax to pay for them so everyone's taxes are going to go way up.

Kalm, where does that saving half of what they currently spend come from? Most Americans are covered through their employer. Are they going to save half? There might be some savings but is it enough to offset a huge federal income tax increase? Another big chunk of people are already covered by the government (Medicare, Medicaid, military) so how are they going to save more when Warren is proposing a Medicare-for-all program? A fraction of America purchases insurance directly (US Census says 16.2%) so everyone's taxes are going to go up and 16.2% of the people will possibly see significant savings in healthcare costs. Now what happens when you open the borders and you have more people asking for government subsidized healthcare?

I purchase health insurance directly and the costs suck but I'm skeptical of our elected officials ability to craft a solution that really works especially when you know darn well that they're going to exempt themselves so they can keep their Cadillac plan.

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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Post by kalm »

GannonFan wrote:
kalm wrote:
It might. Especially when you don’t tell them they’ll pay about half of what they currently spend on annual premiums, prescriptions, and basic care making it a net positive gain.

Ah yes, the political unicorn. It's a magical medical plan, that's for sure. :rofl:
Yeah...it’s simply impossible to spend less nationally with similar outcomes. :lol:

Will big pharma and for profit insurance throw everything they have against it? Sure. Will both political parties protect the current scheme? Yep. Will some voters be swayed by the propaganda and/or provided with no alternative candidates? You betcha.

Your support of an extremely corrupt system is appreciated. :thumb:
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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Post by CID1990 »

UNI88 wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
That’s the left’s “Mexico will pay for it” bullshit right there

And somebody most certainly will pay for it. Just because Warren dodges the question on whose taxes will go up significantly (spoiler: the people who need the “savings” the most) doesn’t make the idea solvent

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CID is right. There is a whole lot more "free" sh!t that Warren and Sanders are proposing then just healthcare and there aren't enough wealthy people with enough money to tax to pay for them so everyone's taxes are going to go way up.

Kalm, where does that saving half of what they currently spend come from? Most Americans are covered through their employer. Are they going to save half? There might be some savings but is it enough to offset a huge federal income tax increase? Another big chunk of people are already covered by the government (Medicare, Medicaid, military) so how are they going to save more when Warren is proposing a Medicare-for-all program? A fraction of America purchases insurance directly (US Census says 16.2%) so everyone's taxes are going to go up and 16.2% of the people will possibly see significant savings in healthcare costs. Now what happens when you open the borders and you have more people asking for government subsidized healthcare?

I purchase health insurance directly and the costs suck but I'm skeptical of our elected officials ability to craft a solution that really works especially when you know darn well that they're going to exempt themselves so they can keep their Cadillac plan.
You would think populist lefty zealots spouting about income disparity would understand basic math

The average middle class Joe is going to ante up tax dollars he cannot well afford to part with

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