The Media -- Going Forward

[Winterborn]

If only we were a nation of Daniel Boone - Tony Stark hybrids.

We’re not.

OPI is not reviewable.

I disagree. Personally know close to a dozen people that hold patents either by themselves or jointly with others. Also most of the people that I associate with display the ingenuity of a "Tony StarK". While they may not invent an arc reactor, in their own way they come up with different ideas and process to do a task or project. And for the most part if I mentioned some of the comments in this tread about the role of government they would politely (for the most part) tell you were to stick it.

Now as a nation I think we are close to a Daniel Boone/Tony Stark hybrid. There are people that are not, but that is by their choice. For the most part given a chance, people will figure out a smarter way to do a task. The thing is the reward has to be there to incentivize that thought process, and the only thing government does is to do its best to take that "reward" away.

Government is a necessary evil. There needs to some, but it is easy to go to far (which we have IMHO)......

[UNI88]

If only we were a nation of Daniel Boone - Tony Stark hybrids.

We’re not.

OPI is not reviewable.

I disagree. Personally know close to a dozen people that hold patents either by themselves or jointly with others. Also most of the people that I associate with display the ingenuity of a "Tony StarK". While they may not invent an arc reactor, in their own way they come up with different ideas and process to do a task or project. And for the most part if I mentioned some of the comments in this tread about the role of government they would politely (for the most part) tell you were to stick it.

Now as a nation I think we are close to a Daniel Boone/Tony Stark hybrid. There are people that are not, but that is by their choice. For the most part given a chance, people will figure out a smarter way to do a task. The thing is the reward has to be there to incentivize that thought process, and the only thing government does is to do its best to take that "reward" away.

Government is a necessary evil. There needs to some, but it is easy to go to far (which we have IMHO)......

[kalm]

If only we were a nation of Daniel Boone - Tony Stark hybrids.

We’re not.

OPI is not reviewable.

I disagree. Personally know close to a dozen people that hold patents either by themselves or jointly with others. Also most of the people that I associate with display the ingenuity of a "Tony StarK". While they may not invent an arc reactor, in their own way they come up with different ideas and process to do a task or project. And for the most part if I mentioned some of the comments in this tread about the role of government they would politely (for the most part) tell you were to stick it.

Now as a nation I think we are close to a Daniel Boone/Tony Stark hybrid. There are people that are not, but that is by their choice. For the most part given a chance, people will figure out a smarter way to do a task. The thing is the reward has to be there to incentivize that thought process, and the only thing government does is to do its best to take that "reward" away.

Government is a necessary evil. There needs to some, but it is easy to go to far (which we have IMHO)......

You know a dozen people who hold patents?

Were any of them educated at public universities? Did those happen to be land grant colleges? Do they work in industries that have benefitted from university research, transportation infrastructure, or other government subsidies? Do they live in a country that’s able to project power across the globe stabilizing energy markets and keeping fuel and fertilizer costs low?

I’m not disagreeing with any of those things but they all require big government and reliance on others and other industries which have been supported as well.

Runs on toilet paper, rejection of social distancing despite a pandemic, and the high levels of mistrust in institutions and science indicate a lack of self reliance and ingenuity. Even before all of this, spend a few hours with the average family during a power outage and no internet. The peaceful, distracted, modern family turns into Lord of the Flies.

Circling back to your friends, those are the good peeps to have around. They are similar examples to places like ND and Montana being more self reliant than other locales. It’s cultural to a degree but also due to necessity and logistics.

We are more Alicia Silverstone’s character in Clueless than a Boone-Stark hybrid.

Some of this is BECAUSE, big government and some of this is DESPITE it.

It’s a balancing act that the “me” society is winning.

[UNI88]

I disagree. Personally know close to a dozen people that hold patents either by themselves or jointly with others. Also most of the people that I associate with display the ingenuity of a "Tony StarK". While they may not invent an arc reactor, in their own way they come up with different ideas and process to do a task or project. And for the most part if I mentioned some of the comments in this tread about the role of government they would politely (for the most part) tell you were to stick it.

Now as a nation I think we are close to a Daniel Boone/Tony Stark hybrid. There are people that are not, but that is by their choice. For the most part given a chance, people will figure out a smarter way to do a task. The thing is the reward has to be there to incentivize that thought process, and the only thing government does is to do its best to take that "reward" away.

Government is a necessary evil. There needs to some, but it is easy to go to far (which we have IMHO)......

You know a dozen people who hold patents?

Were any of them educated at public universities? Did those happen to be land grant colleges? Do they work in industries that have benefitted from university research, transportation infrastructure, or other government subsidies? Do they live in a country that’s able to project power across the globe stabilizing energy markets and keeping fuel and fertilizer costs low?

I’m not disagreeing with any of those things but they all require big government and reliance on others and other industries which have been supported as well.

Runs on toilet paper, rejection of social distancing despite a pandemic, and the high levels of mistrust in institutions and science indicate a lack of self reliance and ingenuity. Even before all of this, spend a few hours with the average family during a power outage and no internet. The peaceful, distracted, modern family turns into Lord of the Flies.

Circling back to your friends, those are the good peeps to have around. They are similar examples to places like ND and Montana being more self reliant than other locales. It’s cultural to a degree but also due to necessity and logistics.

We are more Alicia Silverstone’s character in Clueless than a Boone-Stark hybrid.

Some of this is BECAUSE, big government and some of this is DESPITE it.

It’s a balancing act that the “me” society is winning.

Who is the "me" society? Cold-hearted conservatives or lazy liberals?

I'm arguing for understanding our history and culture and balancing compassion/collaboration and self-reliance while pseudo-progressives like Bernie and AOC want to ignore self-reliance. To them, it's a toxically masculine trait that leads to imperialism and worse.

[89Hen]

self-reliance. To them, it's a toxically masculine trait that leads to imperialism and worse.

Don't forget punctuality, family values, rational thinking and delayed gratification. Those are all traits of whiteness, which is just as toxic.

[AZGrizFan]

I disagree. Personally know close to a dozen people that hold patents either by themselves or jointly with others. Also most of the people that I associate with display the ingenuity of a "Tony StarK". While they may not invent an arc reactor, in their own way they come up with different ideas and process to do a task or project. And for the most part if I mentioned some of the comments in this tread about the role of government they would politely (for the most part) tell you were to stick it.

Now as a nation I think we are close to a Daniel Boone/Tony Stark hybrid. There are people that are not, but that is by their choice. For the most part given a chance, people will figure out a smarter way to do a task. The thing is the reward has to be there to incentivize that thought process, and the only thing government does is to do its best to take that "reward" away.

Government is a necessary evil. There needs to some, but it is easy to go to far (which we have IMHO)......

You know a dozen people who hold patents?

Were any of them educated at public universities? Did those happen to be land grant colleges? Do they work in industries that have benefitted from university research, transportation infrastructure, or other government subsidies? Do they live in a country that’s able to project power across the globe stabilizing energy markets and keeping fuel and fertilizer costs low?

I’m not disagreeing with any of those things but they all require big government and reliance on others and other industries which have been supported as well.

Runs on toilet paper, rejection of social distancing despite a pandemic, and the high levels of mistrust in institutions and science indicate a lack of self reliance and ingenuity. Even before all of this, spend a few hours with the average family during a power outage and no internet. The peaceful, distracted, modern family turns into Lord of the Flies.

Circling back to your friends, those are the good peeps to have around. They are similar examples to places like ND and Montana being more self reliant than other locales. It’s cultural to a degree but also due to necessity and logistics.

We are more Alicia Silverstone’s character in Clueless than a Boone-Stark hybrid.

Some of this is BECAUSE, big government and some of this is DESPITE it.

It’s a balancing act that the “me” society is winning.

Holy CRAP you like to give a lot of credit to government.

[kalm]

You know a dozen people who hold patents?

Were any of them educated at public universities? Did those happen to be land grant colleges? Do they work in industries that have benefitted from university research, transportation infrastructure, or other government subsidies? Do they live in a country that’s able to project power across the globe stabilizing energy markets and keeping fuel and fertilizer costs low?

I’m not disagreeing with any of those things but they all require big government and reliance on others and other industries which have been supported as well.

Runs on toilet paper, rejection of social distancing despite a pandemic, and the high levels of mistrust in institutions and science indicate a lack of self reliance and ingenuity. Even before all of this, spend a few hours with the average family during a power outage and no internet. The peaceful, distracted, modern family turns into Lord of the Flies.

Circling back to your friends, those are the good peeps to have around. They are similar examples to places like ND and Montana being more self reliant than other locales. It’s cultural to a degree but also due to necessity and logistics.

We are more Alicia Silverstone’s character in Clueless than a Boone-Stark hybrid.

Some of this is BECAUSE, big government and some of this is DESPITE it.

It’s a balancing act that the “me” society is winning.

Holy CRAP you like to give a lot of credit to government.

Nope. I literally spent another 3 hours on the phone with the IRS yesterday over reclaiming my CAF (power of attorney ID #) so I could find out why we received a $10,000 payroll tax credit followed by a threat of property seizure from the same IRS over $1700 in underpayment from a different quarter. The same IRS that told my bookkeeper I would be given my CAF the last three times I called but was refused despite them having the form 2848 on their computer screen as well as the CAF number.

Trump 2024!

[kalm]

self-reliance. To them, it's a toxically masculine trait that leads to imperialism and worse.

Don't forget punctuality, family values, rational thinking and delayed gratification. Those are all traits of whiteness, which is just as toxic.

Huh?

Channeling your inner Pwns here?

[Ibanez]

self-reliance. To them, it's a toxically masculine trait that leads to imperialism and worse.

Don't forget punctuality, family values, rational thinking and delayed gratification. Those are all traits of whiteness, which is just as toxic.

You forgot stupid, worthless, no good, goddamn, freeloading son of a bitch. Retarded, big mouth, know-it-all, asshole, jerk.

[bluehenbillk]

Project Veritas announced today they've been on CNN conference calls with CNN president Jeff Zucker for two months & will start releasing clips online tonight at 7 - this should be must-see...

[UNI88]

Don't forget punctuality, family values, rational thinking and delayed gratification. Those are all traits of whiteness, which is just as toxic.

Huh?

Channeling your inner Pwns here?

Have you forgotten the Aspects and Assumptions of Whiteness graphic at the National Museum of African American History and Culture?

[kalm]

Huh?

Channeling your inner Pwns here?

Have you forgotten the Aspects and Assumptions of Whiteness graphic at the National Museum of African American History and Culture?

And? Am I supposed to be somehow offended or threatened by this?

[UNI88]

Have you forgotten the Aspects and Assumptions of Whiteness graphic at the National Museum of African American History and Culture?

And? Am I supposed to be somehow offended or threatened by this?

You can do with it what you want. I was just pointing out where I thought 89 was coming from.

I personally look at it and ask why are these things considered "white" and what's wrong with them?
- Self reliance
- Emphasis on the scientific method
- Hard work
- Delayed gratification
- Justice
- Decision making (would seem to be better than indecision in mosts instances)

There are other things on there that I don't adhere to, that my parents didn't adhere to, and on and on.

[89Hen]

You can do with it what you want. I was just pointing out where I thought 89 was coming from.

I personally look at it and ask why are these things considered "white" and what's wrong with them?
- Self reliance
- Emphasis on the scientific method
- Hard work
- Delayed gratification
- Justice
- Decision making (would seem to be better than indecision in mosts instances)

There are other things on there that I don't adhere to, that my parents didn't adhere to, and on and on.

kalm's just upset that my post was based on liberal reality and not liberal derangement syndrome. He blocks out stuff like this from his leftfolk.

[89Hen]

And? Am I supposed to be somehow offended or threatened by this?

And yes, IMO you should be offended by this as an American.

[Winterborn]

I disagree. Personally know close to a dozen people that hold patents either by themselves or jointly with others. Also most of the people that I associate with display the ingenuity of a "Tony StarK". While they may not invent an arc reactor, in their own way they come up with different ideas and process to do a task or project. And for the most part if I mentioned some of the comments in this tread about the role of government they would politely (for the most part) tell you were to stick it.

Now as a nation I think we are close to a Daniel Boone/Tony Stark hybrid. There are people that are not, but that is by their choice. For the most part given a chance, people will figure out a smarter way to do a task. The thing is the reward has to be there to incentivize that thought process, and the only thing government does is to do its best to take that "reward" away.

Government is a necessary evil. There needs to some, but it is easy to go to far (which we have IMHO)......

You know a dozen people who hold patents?

Were any of them educated at public universities? Did those happen to be land grant colleges? Do they work in industries that have benefitted from university research, transportation infrastructure, or other government subsidies? Do they live in a country that’s able to project power across the globe stabilizing energy markets and keeping fuel and fertilizer costs low?

I’m not disagreeing with any of those things but they all require big government and reliance on others and other industries which have been supported as well.

Runs on toilet paper, rejection of social distancing despite a pandemic, and the high levels of mistrust in institutions and science indicate a lack of self reliance and ingenuity. Even before all of this, spend a few hours with the average family during a power outage and no internet. The peaceful, distracted, modern family turns into Lord of the Flies.

Circling back to your friends, those are the good peeps to have around. They are similar examples to places like ND and Montana being more self reliant than other locales. It’s cultural to a degree but also due to necessity and logistics.

We are more Alicia Silverstone’s character in Clueless than a Boone-Stark hybrid.

Some of this is BECAUSE, big government and some of this is DESPITE it.

It’s a balancing act that the “me” society is winning.

You have no idea.

And to answer your question, some and none. They range from an Ivy leaguer to a person who didn't graduate from HS.

I will not deny that there are some benefits to government (my original post stated as much) but the credit you give is not due to big government it is in spite of big government. Sure there were some benefits granted us through our past but one can argue just as easily that the government hindrances held them back in other areas. Government should be about balance.

The items you cite in your second paragraph are interesting. You see them as a problem, I see them as a healthy society that is questioning everything (which didn't you post an article about that the other day?). Is some overboard, yes, but they are for the most part thinking and digging into the information. Now does everybody understand that information, probably not, but that doesn't mean they are doing something wrong questioning it. Just because the questioning doesn't line up with your views (or mine for that matter) doesn't mean they should not continue their actions.

Trust is a two-way street. You have to give it, in order to receive it. Did people lose trust in the institutions or did the institution lose trust of the people by their actions?

It is just not ND/MT that has that but there areas all around this country that exhibit and areas that used to have it as well (and still do in a smaller scale). I still disagree with the Clueless character. Not saying there isn't a signification portion of people like that but that portion as always existed throughout history and while it has grown, so has the population.

Selfishness always seems like it is winning during the good times. But they tend to be as substantial as chaff when the going gets tough, IMHO. Tough times breeds character.

[Pwns]

And? Am I supposed to be somehow offended or threatened by this?

Do you not see an irony that the people that think they know the only path to racial reconciliation are the ones claiming that traditional western values are "white" values? Come on, take a minute to think about it rather than try to make a false equivalence between liberal snowflakery and calling out stupidity and hypocrisy.

That graphic literally looks like something that if you put online 20 years ago would get you accused of being a skinhead.

[AZGrizFan]

And? Am I supposed to be somehow offended or threatened by this?

Do you not see an irony that the people that think they know the only path to racial reconciliation are the ones claiming that traditional western values are "white" values? Come on, take a minute to think about it rather than try to make a false equivalence between liberal snowflakery and calling out stupidity and hypocrisy.

That graphic literally looks like something that if you put online 20 years ago would get you accused of being a skinhead.

That’s only if a White man put it it out. When a Black organization puts it out, no problemo.

[kalm]

You can do with it what you want. I was just pointing out where I thought 89 was coming from.

I personally look at it and ask why are these things considered "white" and what's wrong with them?
- Self reliance
- Emphasis on the scientific method
- Hard work
- Delayed gratification
- Justice
- Decision making (would seem to be better than indecision in mosts instances)

There are other things on there that I don't adhere to, that my parents didn't adhere to, and on and on.

kalm's just upset that my post was based on liberal reality and not liberal derangement syndrome. He blocks out stuff like this from his leftfolk.

So the “reality” that justice is based on English common law is “toxically” “liberal”?



I suppose one could be offended at a few realities listed, especially in the competition part. There are even fewer untruths. Most of this is culturally and historically correct for better or for worse.

Why should I feel guilt, or anger? Why have you switched your attack from racial to ideological?

[kalm]

Do you not see an irony that the people that think they know the only path to racial reconciliation are the ones claiming that traditional western values are "white" values? Come on, take a minute to think about it rather than try to make a false equivalence between liberal snowflakery and calling out stupidity and hypocrisy.

That graphic literally looks like something that if you put online 20 years ago would get you accused of being a skinhead.

That’s only if a White man put it it out. When a Black organization puts it out, no problemo.

That was my second take. In some ways, it reads like a Christian white supremacist manifesto.

[kalm]

And? Am I supposed to be somehow offended or threatened by this?

Do you not see an irony that the people that think they know the only path to racial reconciliation are the ones claiming that traditional western values are "white" values? Come on, take a minute to think about it rather than try to make a false equivalence between liberal snowflakery and calling out stupidity and hypocrisy.

That graphic literally looks like something that if you put online 20 years ago would get you accused of being a skinhead.

Yep. Just mentioned that to Z.

Traditional western culture IS primarily white culture. Again...for good or bad. The values in looking back on it are up to you.

For example: we hang our hats on the value of the liberal document that is the constitution. Slavery still existed for awhile after it. Another is how we value workers rights and the environment. Unless we can manufacture something cheaper in another country that doesn’t share those values.

Still not seeing where I should be offended or threatened here.

[kalm]

You know a dozen people who hold patents?

Were any of them educated at public universities? Did those happen to be land grant colleges? Do they work in industries that have benefitted from university research, transportation infrastructure, or other government subsidies? Do they live in a country that’s able to project power across the globe stabilizing energy markets and keeping fuel and fertilizer costs low?

I’m not disagreeing with any of those things but they all require big government and reliance on others and other industries which have been supported as well.

Runs on toilet paper, rejection of social distancing despite a pandemic, and the high levels of mistrust in institutions and science indicate a lack of self reliance and ingenuity. Even before all of this, spend a few hours with the average family during a power outage and no internet. The peaceful, distracted, modern family turns into Lord of the Flies.

Circling back to your friends, those are the good peeps to have around. They are similar examples to places like ND and Montana being more self reliant than other locales. It’s cultural to a degree but also due to necessity and logistics.

We are more Alicia Silverstone’s character in Clueless than a Boone-Stark hybrid.

Some of this is BECAUSE, big government and some of this is DESPITE it.

It’s a balancing act that the “me” society is winning.

You have no idea.

And to answer your question, some and none. They range from an Ivy leaguer to a person who didn't graduate from HS.

I will not deny that there are some benefits to government (my original post stated as much) but the credit you give is not due to big government it is in spite of big government. Sure there were some benefits granted us through our past but one can argue just as easily that the government hindrances held them back in other areas. Government should be about balance.

The items you cite in your second paragraph are interesting. You see them as a problem, I see them as a healthy society that is questioning everything (which didn't you post an article about that the other day?). Is some overboard, yes, but they are for the most part thinking and digging into the information. Now does everybody understand that information, probably not, but that doesn't mean they are doing something wrong questioning it. Just because the questioning doesn't line up with your views (or mine for that matter) doesn't mean they should not continue their actions.

Trust is a two-way street. You have to give it, in order to receive it. Did people lose trust in the institutions or did the institution lose trust of the people by their actions?

It is just not ND/MT that has that but there areas all around this country that exhibit and areas that used to have it as well (and still do in a smaller scale). I still disagree with the Clueless character. Not saying there isn't a signification portion of people like that but that portion as always existed throughout history and while it has grown, so has the population.

Selfishness always seems like it is winning during the good times. But they tend to be as substantial as chaff when the going gets tough, IMHO. Tough times breeds character.

Mostly agree.

Of course people should question everything. That’s a part of acquiring knowledge. There comes a moment though where the questioning becomes a complete rejection of not only the best available science and leadership but the known facts as well. We’re witnessing the ramifications of that ignorance now with avoidable illness and death, longer lockdowns, and a compromised healthcare system which is starting to include EMT’s and 911 services.

MT and ND were just examples. Remember, I live in a culturally similar area. These are my peeps too.

Your last line is spot on but tough times also expose low character. Much of this (including lost faith in institutions) is classic behavior for crisis periods. It’s almost inevitable and often not fun to watch.

[Winterborn]

Mostly agree.

Of course people should question everything. That’s a part of acquiring knowledge. There comes a moment though where the questioning becomes a complete rejection of not only the best available science and leadership but the known facts as well. We’re witnessing the ramifications of that ignorance now with avoidable illness and death, longer lockdowns, and a compromised healthcare system which is starting to include EMT’s and 911 services.

MT and ND were just examples. Remember, I live in a culturally similar area. These are my peeps too.

Your last line is spot on but tough times also expose low character. Much of this (including lost faith in institutions) is classic behavior for crisis periods. It’s almost inevitable and often not fun to watch.

Phew. I was worried for a moment that you would completely agree and then we would have nothing left to talk about other than the Ref's gave EWU the win back in......

I don't disagree in spirit of your second paragraph, but the "...ramifications of that ignorance now with avoidable illness and death, longer lock downs, and a compromised healthcare system which is starting to include EMT’s and 911 services." is that due to the mess our "leaders" made of it or people seeing that mess our leaders made and then deciding that they don't know anymore than they (the general public) do and taking decisions back into their own hands?

It goes back to my point:

Trust is a two-way street. You have to give it, in order to receive it. Did people lose trust in the institutions or did the institution lose trust of the people by their actions?

The compromised healthcare is also indirectly caused by Healthcare CEO's cutting staff due to lack of people coming in for procedures (happened at two of the hospitals in our area) and their willingness to outsource nurses/services to the lowest bidder (has been going on for years). Sanford (operates in 26 states, including ND) is famous for treating staff like crap and only paying the bare minimum and overworking staff in the best of times, never mind in 2020. Never mind the investigation into Denny Sanford having possession of having child porn (and how the local media is all hushed on it due to his past donations (local example of how politics/media's double standard)).

That people don't trust institutions should come as no surprise considering the actions that people in and leading those institutions have done. It is kind of a chicken/egg problem, both have happened and are going to continue to happen. People's trust can be earned back by those institutions/individuals but that means that the "do as I say, not as I do" and playing politics will have to stop.

[kalm]

Mostly agree.

Of course people should question everything. That’s a part of acquiring knowledge. There comes a moment though where the questioning becomes a complete rejection of not only the best available science and leadership but the known facts as well. We’re witnessing the ramifications of that ignorance now with avoidable illness and death, longer lockdowns, and a compromised healthcare system which is starting to include EMT’s and 911 services.

MT and ND were just examples. Remember, I live in a culturally similar area. These are my peeps too.

Your last line is spot on but tough times also expose low character. Much of this (including lost faith in institutions) is classic behavior for crisis periods. It’s almost inevitable and often not fun to watch.

Phew. I was worried for a moment that you would completely agree and then we would have nothing left to talk about other than the Ref's gave EWU the win back in......

I don't disagree in spirit of your second paragraph, but the "...ramifications of that ignorance now with avoidable illness and death, longer lock downs, and a compromised healthcare system which is starting to include EMT’s and 911 services." is that due to the mess our "leaders" made of it or people seeing that mess our leaders made and then deciding that they don't know anymore than they (the general public) do and taking decisions back into their own hands?

It goes back to my point:

Trust is a two-way street. You have to give it, in order to receive it. Did people lose trust in the institutions or did the institution lose trust of the people by their actions?

The compromised healthcare is also indirectly caused by Healthcare CEO's cutting staff due to lack of people coming in for procedures (happened at two of the hospitals in our area) and their willingness to outsource nurses/services to the lowest bidder (has been going on for years). Sanford (operates in 26 states, including ND) is famous for treating staff like crap and only paying the bare minimum and overworking staff in the best of times, never mind in 2020. Never mind the investigation into Denny Sanford having possession of having child porn (and how the local media is all hushed on it due to his past donations (local example of how politics/media's double standard)).

That people don't trust institutions should come as no surprise considering the actions that people in and leading those institutions have done. It is kind of a chicken/egg problem, both have happened and are going to continue to happen. People's trust can be earned back by those institutions/individuals but that means that the "do as I say, not as I do" and playing politics will have to stop.

There are leadership failures all over the place on this one. That explains the lost trust in people who should be smart enough to see around it through skepticism and a variety of sources. Ironically, many of these same people crave a strong leader regardless of whether he makes the right call.

In this case, Bill Fette should be a hero in Fargo.

[UNI88]

That people don't trust institutions should come as no surprise considering the actions that people in and leading those institutions have done. It is kind of a chicken/egg problem, both have happened and are going to continue to happen. People's trust can be earned back by those institutions/individuals but that means that the "do as I say, not as I do" and playing politics will have to stop.

I find it interesting that Kalm doesn't trust people and as a result he wants us to put more trust in institutions that are staffed and run by ...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
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people.