Taxes are for sucks

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Taxes are for sucks

Post by kalm »

Why would any 1%’er want a flat tax or care about the national debt when the current system is so damn equitable ( :mrgreen: ) ?
In 2007, Jeff Bezos, then a multibillionaire and now the world’s richest man, did not pay a penny in federal income taxes. He achieved the feat again in 2011. In 2018, Tesla founder Elon Musk, the second-richest person in the world, also paid no federal income taxes.


Michael Bloomberg managed to do the same in recent years. Billionaire investor Carl Icahn did it twice. George Soros paid no federal income tax three years in a row.

ProPublica has obtained a vast trove of Internal Revenue Service data on the tax returns of thousands of the nation’s wealthiest people, covering more than 15 years. The data provides an unprecedented look inside the financial lives of America’s titans, including Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, Rupert Murdoch and Mark Zuckerberg. It shows not just their income and taxes, but also their investments, stock trades, gambling winnings and even the results of audits.

To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew in that same time period.

We’re going to call this their true tax rate.

The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a staggering sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.

It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by about $65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period
https://www.propublica.org/article/the- ... income-tax
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Re: Taxes are for sucks

Post by BDKJMU »

kalm wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:42 am Why would any 1%’er want a flat tax or care about the national debt when the current system is so damn equitable ( :mrgreen: ) ?
In 2007, Jeff Bezos, then a multibillionaire and now the world’s richest man, did not pay a penny in federal income taxes. He achieved the feat again in 2011. In 2018, Tesla founder Elon Musk, the second-richest person in the world, also paid no federal income taxes.


Michael Bloomberg managed to do the same in recent years. Billionaire investor Carl Icahn did it twice. George Soros paid no federal income tax three years in a row.

ProPublica has obtained a vast trove of Internal Revenue Service data on the tax returns of thousands of the nation’s wealthiest people, covering more than 15 years. The data provides an unprecedented look inside the financial lives of America’s titans, including Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, Rupert Murdoch and Mark Zuckerberg. It shows not just their income and taxes, but also their investments, stock trades, gambling winnings and even the results of audits.

To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew in that same time period.

We’re going to call this their true tax rate.

The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a staggering sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.

It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by about $65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period
https://www.propublica.org/article/the- ... income-tax
Thanks for pointing out what we all know- the IRS is a criminal, rogue organization, violating their own rules and US law by illegally releasing the tax data of US citizens. Even uber rich liberal Americans have a right to privacy…
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Re: Taxes are for sucks

Post by kalm »

BDKJMU wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:34 pm
kalm wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:42 am Why would any 1%’er want a flat tax or care about the national debt when the current system is so damn equitable ( :mrgreen: ) ?



https://www.propublica.org/article/the- ... income-tax
Thanks for pointing out what we all know- the IRS is a criminal, rogue organization, violating their own rules and US law by illegally releasing the tax data of US citizens. Even uber rich liberal Americans have a right to privacy…
Agree on the IRS but whistleblowers serve an important purpose sometimes.

Cant both be true?
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Re: Taxes are for sucks

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:37 pm
BDKJMU wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:34 pm
Thanks for pointing out what we all know- the IRS is a criminal, rogue organization, violating their own rules and US law by illegally releasing the tax data of US citizens. Even uber rich liberal Americans have a right to privacy…
Agree on the IRS but whistleblowers serve an important purpose sometimes.

Cant both be true?
What was important here? That income taxes only tax *gulp* income? It's not like ProPublica was reporting on the Watergate break-in or something. We already know all of this - wealth isn't taxed directly. Income is taxed, but unrealized capital gains aren't income. Is water still wet? Is the Pope still Catholic? There are lots of other grounndbreakingly obvious things ProPublica could be reporting on.
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Re: Taxes are for sucks

Post by UNI88 »

GannonFan wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:52 pm
kalm wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:37 pm
Agree on the IRS but whistleblowers serve an important purpose sometimes.

Cant both be true?
What was important here? That income taxes only tax *gulp* income? It's not like ProPublica was reporting on the Watergate break-in or something. We already know all of this - wealth isn't taxed directly. Income is taxed, but unrealized capital gains aren't income. Is water still wet? Is the Pope still Catholic? There are lots of other groundbreakingly obvious things ProPublica could be reporting on.
:nod:

Was the person or persons who provided this information to ProPublica a whistleblower? Definition of whistleblower - a person who informs on a person or organization engaged in an illicit activity. Did these wealthy individuals do anything illicit? Or did they take advantage of existing tax loopholes?

Who really thinks that the answer is to raise taxes? The uber-wealthy will continue to find and take advantage of loopholes and the people who can't afford an army of accountants and tax attorneys will pay the higher taxes. Remove loopholes, simplify the tax system.
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Re: Taxes are for sucks

Post by 89Hen »

UNI88 wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:05 pm Or did they take advantage of existing tax loopholes?
Not really picking on you 88 but I think this actually is part of the problem. People calling them loopholes makes it sound like they actually are doing something elicit. They are following the tax rules. It would be like calling a flea flicker for a TD a scoring loophole.
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Re: Taxes are for sucks

Post by HI54UNI »

Kalm loves a wealth tax so much he had to start a 2nd thread on the propublica leak. :lol:
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Re: Taxes are for sucks

Post by UNI88 »

89Hen wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:00 pm
UNI88 wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:05 pm Or did they take advantage of existing tax loopholes?
Not really picking on you 88 but I think this actually is part of the problem. People calling them loopholes makes it sound like they actually are doing something elicit. They are following the tax rules. It would be like calling a flea flicker for a TD a scoring loophole.
This isn't picking on me because it's a valid point. I would imagine that the tax code is filled with legal loopholes that most don't have the resources or income levels to take advantage of.
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Re: Taxes are for sucks

Post by BDKJMU »

HI54UNI wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:09 pm Kalm loves a wealth tax so much he had to start a 2nd thread on the propublica leak. :lol:
Dementia: When you can’t remember that you started a thread on the exact same thing the week prior…. :rofl:
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Re: Taxes are for sucks

Post by 89Hen »

UNI88 wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:31 pm
89Hen wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:00 pm

Not really picking on you 88 but I think this actually is part of the problem. People calling them loopholes makes it sound like they actually are doing something elicit. They are following the tax rules. It would be like calling a flea flicker for a TD a scoring loophole.
This isn't picking on me because it's a valid point. I would imagine that the tax code is filled with legal loopholes that most don't have the resources or income levels to take advantage of.
They can't take advantage because they can't find them, or because they don't have that type of assets/income? If you follow the tax code, you are not using a loophole. You are following the code.
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Re: Taxes are for sucks

Post by AshevilleApp »

89Hen wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:00 pm
UNI88 wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:05 pm Or did they take advantage of existing tax loopholes?
Not really picking on you 88 but I think this actually is part of the problem. People calling them loopholes makes it sound like they actually are doing something elicit. They are following the tax rules. It would be like calling a flea flicker for a TD a scoring loophole.
Illicit.
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Re: Taxes are for sucks

Post by 89Hen »

AshevilleApp wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:10 pm
89Hen wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:00 pm

Not really picking on you 88 but I think this actually is part of the problem. People calling them loopholes makes it sound like they actually are doing something elicit. They are following the tax rules. It would be like calling a flea flicker for a TD a scoring loophole.
Illicit.
I was talking about electronic versions. ;) :oops:
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Re: Taxes are for sucks

Post by UNI88 »

AshevilleApp wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:10 pm
89Hen wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:00 pm
Not really picking on you 88 but I think this actually is part of the problem. People calling them loopholes makes it sound like they actually are doing something elicit. They are following the tax rules. It would be like calling a flea flicker for a TD a scoring loophole.
Illicit.
89 is such a goody-two-shoes that he can't even type the word illicit. :D
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Re: Taxes are for sucks

Post by 89Hen »

UNI88 wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:21 pm
AshevilleApp wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:10 pm

Illicit.
89 is such a goody-two-shoes that he can't even type the word illicit. :D
:lol: So the strange thing is I typed ilicit and it corrected to elicit. But in fairness, I didn't know how to spell it.
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Re: Taxes are for sucks

Post by bobbythekidd »

Getting back on track, my dad payed 12.5% of his 1.5mil income in 2020. I payed 29% of my, much lower income, in taxes.

Make that make sense.
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Re: Taxes are for sucks

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:42 am Why would any 1%’er want a flat tax or care about the national debt when the current system is so damn equitable ( :mrgreen: ) ?
In 2007, Jeff Bezos, then a multibillionaire and now the world’s richest man, did not pay a penny in federal income taxes. He achieved the feat again in 2011. In 2018, Tesla founder Elon Musk, the second-richest person in the world, also paid no federal income taxes.


Michael Bloomberg managed to do the same in recent years. Billionaire investor Carl Icahn did it twice. George Soros paid no federal income tax three years in a row.

ProPublica has obtained a vast trove of Internal Revenue Service data on the tax returns of thousands of the nation’s wealthiest people, covering more than 15 years. The data provides an unprecedented look inside the financial lives of America’s titans, including Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, Rupert Murdoch and Mark Zuckerberg. It shows not just their income and taxes, but also their investments, stock trades, gambling winnings and even the results of audits.

To capture the financial reality of the richest Americans, ProPublica undertook an analysis that has never been done before. We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew in that same time period.

We’re going to call this their true tax rate.

The results are stark. According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a staggering sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.

It’s a completely different picture for middle-class Americans, for example, wage earners in their early 40s who have amassed a typical amount of wealth for people their age. From 2014 to 2018, such households saw their net worth expand by about $65,000 after taxes on average, mostly due to the rise in value of their homes. But because the vast bulk of their earnings were salaries, their tax bills were almost as much, nearly $62,000, over that five-year period
https://www.propublica.org/article/the- ... income-tax
This is only news if they all did something illegal. If not, then people should kindly fuck off.
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Re: Taxes are for sucks

Post by kalm »

BDKJMU wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:39 pm
HI54UNI wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:09 pm Kalm loves a wealth tax so much he had to start a 2nd thread on the propublica leak. :lol:
Dementia: When you can’t remember that you started a thread on the exact same thing the week prior…. :rofl:
Did I? That’s awesome! :lol:

And I suppose I technically do have occasional dementia symptoms caused by my hepatic encephalopathy. Thanks for the crutch! :lol:
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Re: Taxes are for sucks

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:31 pm
89Hen wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:00 pm

Not really picking on you 88 but I think this actually is part of the problem. People calling them loopholes makes it sound like they actually are doing something elicit. They are following the tax rules. It would be like calling a flea flicker for a TD a scoring loophole.
This isn't picking on me because it's a valid point. I would imagine that the tax code is filled with legal loopholes that most don't have the resources or income levels to take advantage of.
This is one of the big takeaways IMO. :nod:

And it’s not as if our tax structure isn’t heavily lobbied for.
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Re: Taxes are for sucks

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:45 am
BDKJMU wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:39 pm
Dementia: When you can’t remember that you started a thread on the exact same thing the week prior…. :rofl:
Did I? That’s awesome! :lol:

And I suppose I technically do have occasional dementia symptoms caused by my hepatic encephalopathy. Thanks for the crutch! :lol:
You’re a wreck. :ohno: :ohno: :kisswink:
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Re: Taxes are for sucks

Post by kalm »

AZGrizFan wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:21 am
kalm wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:45 am

Did I? That’s awesome! :lol:

And I suppose I technically do have occasional dementia symptoms caused by my hepatic encephalopathy. Thanks for the crutch! :lol:
You’re a wreck. :ohno: :ohno: :kisswink:
Look at it this way. At least now you may have a chance arguing against me...from time to time. :clap:
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Re: Taxes are for sucks

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:24 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:21 am

You’re a wreck. :ohno: :ohno: :kisswink:
Look at it this way. At least now you may have a chance arguing against me...from time to time. :clap:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Rube. :coffee: :coffee:
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Re: Taxes are for sucks

Post by kalm »

kalm wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:24 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:21 am

You’re a wreck. :ohno: :ohno: :kisswink:
Look at it this way. At least now you may have a chance arguing against me...from time to time. :clap:
Now you just sound like that effete western Washingtonian snob, Chizzang.

:roll:
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Re: Taxes are for sucks

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:49 pm
kalm wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:24 pm

Look at it this way. At least now you may have a chance arguing against me...from time to time. :clap:
Now you just sound like that effete western Washingtonian snob, Chizzang.

:roll:
Who?
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Re: Taxes are for sucks

Post by kalm »

AZGrizFan wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:15 pm
kalm wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:49 pm

Now you just sound like that effete western Washingtonian snob, Chizzang.

:roll:
Who?
Exactly.
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Re: Taxes are for sucks

Post by houndawg »

UNI88 wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:05 pm
GannonFan wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:52 pm

What was important here? That income taxes only tax *gulp* income? It's not like ProPublica was reporting on the Watergate break-in or something. We already know all of this - wealth isn't taxed directly. Income is taxed, but unrealized capital gains aren't income. Is water still wet? Is the Pope still Catholic? There are lots of other groundbreakingly obvious things ProPublica could be reporting on.
:nod:

Was the person or persons who provided this information to ProPublica a whistleblower? Definition of whistleblower - a person who informs on a person or organization engaged in an illicit activity. Did these wealthy individuals do anything illicit? Or did they take advantage of existing tax loopholes?

Who really thinks that the answer is to raise taxes? The uber-wealthy will continue to find and take advantage of loopholes and the people who can't afford an army of accountants and tax attorneys will pay the higher taxes. Remove loopholes, simplify the tax system.
Not me. I'm for deporting them to someplace where they have the opportunity to pull their weight.
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