The Ukraine Crisis

[kalm]

Didn't AP tell you Trump was a Russian agent?

How have the 4 sites you like to read (but, don't like to name) faired in this thread?

There will be no invasion. Just a manufactured crisis so when there's no invasion, Biden can claim a victory.

Ukraine and Romania will invade Transnistria

Wasn't the Moskva that was sunk. Different ship.

We're in the final phase of this war. (In April)

"Numerous" NATO advisors holed up with Azov at a bioweapons facility in Mariupol

"High ranking" NATO advisors in Azovstal

[SeattleGriz]

Didn't AP tell you Trump was a Russian agent?

How have the 4 sites you like to read (but, don't like to name) faired in this thread?

There will be no invasion. Just a manufactured crisis so when there's no invasion, Biden can claim a victory.

Ukraine and Romania will invade Transnistria

Wasn't the Moskva that was sunk. Different ship.

We're in the final phase of this war. (In April)

"Numerous" NATO advisors holed up with Azov at a bioweapons facility in Mariupol

"High ranking" NATO advisors in Azovstal

Probably as well as anyone else. It took me a while to find sites I trust. It usually takes the author putting their views out there, then admitting mistakes.

Most of the ones I trust are guys that understand troop levels, supporting artillery and tactics.

[SeattleGriz]

Bro. An SIU or UM fitted hat to the winner come Jan 1st.

I got a big fat head

define "winner"

Hmm. Putin keeps the Oblasts and Ukraine comes to the table.

[SeattleGriz]

I'm busy. Thinking about BBG. Tell you what it is later.

nice tap out

Alright. I gave you the link to the P8 theory. Not sure on that one, but at least he put it out there for others to critique.

Time to step up and tell us who you think damaged the pipelines and why.

[kalm]

Elon’s map gets some comparisons.

[GannonFan]

Hey, is Russia going to invade Spain soon? I mean, the Catalan region has tinkered with forming their own country before, and goodness knows there were some real fascists in Spain before, bet there are still a couple now. Who knew all they had to do was say some words in Russian.

[kalm]

Hey, is Russia going to invade Spain soon? I mean, the Catalan region has tinkered with forming their own country before, and goodness knows there were some real fascists in Spain before, bet there are still a couple now. Who knew all they had to do was say some words in Russian.

Well played.

[Skjellyfetti]

Proposal for Eternal Peace: The Eighteen State Solution to Kaliningrad

[∞∞∞]

I particularly like that Israel and Palestine still border each other, Colonial South Africa is back and next to Great Britain, and the US borders both Germany and Japan. Prolly some others I'm missing.

Someone actually took the time with this joke lol.

[kalm]

I particularly like that Israel and Palestine still border each other, Colonial South Africa is back and next to Great Britain, and the US borders both Germany and Japan. Prolly some others I'm missing.

Someone actually took the time with this joke lol.

That’s pretty damned clever.

[AZGrizFan]

I particularly like that Israel and Palestine still border each other, Colonial South Africa is back and next to Great Britain, and the US borders both Germany and Japan. Prolly some others I'm missing.

Someone actually took the time with this joke lol.

And the UK is most definitely NOT an island nation.

Although I’m somewhat disappointed Mexico doesn’t still border the US.

[SDHornet]

You think Putin blew up his own lines. To what end? What does it serve him?

I do. You are assuming that Putin is sane and what he does is rational.

If he did, why would he 1) do it there and not in waters closer to Russian territory 2) do it when he could just close the valves/turn off the pumps that supply the pipeline 3) do something that takes away leverage over the EU.

I don't know who did it, but believing the "Russia did it" narrative is comical.

[SDHornet]

Yes. And?

What I previously said. As a guy who gets his allowance from the American taxpayers he sure does talk tough, especially considering the Germans are now fucked for nat gas. I would send the joke of a diplomat to his bedroom without dinner.

Then Zelensky starts shilling for a "pre-emptive strike" against Russia. This guy is actively pushing for a nuclear war.

But "muh Russia bad" or something.

[SDHornet]

Anyone claiming the Kerson counteroffensive wasn't a failure just isn't paying attention. At best you can claim it was a feign for the Kharkov counteroffensive.

What if the eastern counteroffensive was a feint for Kherson?? It's always a feint, right?

Ukraine make their push past the Oskil River yet?

They still pushing or did the offensives stall out? Credit to Ukraine for the push in the north, those are some meaningful gains. From what I've read Russia was consolidating its lines in the south to hold Kherson. Ukrainian attacks in the Zaporizhia (sp?) region have been held off (a big Ukrainian push there would impact the land bridge to Crimea so I would assume the Russians will commit sizable forces there) and there were some minor Russian wins around Bakmut.

The next few weeks will tell if these recent gains by Ukraine will turn into anything more significant. Winter could very well come to the aid of the Russians at the right time in yet another war.

[SDHornet]

I find it funny how all the people which "want to be" part of Russia continue to celebrate when Ukrainian forces liberate them.

I suggest SD reads "The Moon is Down" by Steinbeck. Russia can't win this war.

I'll check it out.

Russia has time (and natural resources) on its side. These NATO led pushes need to turn into some serious gains before winter.

[SDHornet]

I find it funny how all the people which "want to be" part of Russia continue to celebrate when Ukrainian forces liberate them.

I suggest SD reads "The Moon is Down" by Steinbeck. Russia can't win this war.

I'll be honest here. I don't know how anyone in the US really knows what is going on. I have four sites I "trust", but they are constantly saying that they are only guessing. They often complain that pro Russian sites are full of shit and aren't doing anyone favors.

My point being, is how do you know the videos you are seeing are true?

This is honestly why I've chosen my stance on this subject. I feel our media is full of shit and we are not getting the true picture. As I said to UNI, the US standing outside of the US is horrendous.

We don't, even if you get feeds from pro-either side you have to filter the bullshit.

The problem with the typical flag waiver is they just get fed propaganda from one side and regurgitate it like it's gospel. You start pointing out that the real Nazi's are on the Ukrainian side and you can start seeing steam come out of their ears.

[SDHornet]

Let's put your example in proper context. In order to be similar, the US would have to originally have "ownership" over the Mexican territory with many on the border being perfectly fine with living there. America was fine with them leaving, as they voted to leave.

When those on the border finally felt they were getting a raw deal due to the way they were treated, they would again vote to leave Mexico and become their own country.

Mexico responds with artillery and Nazi tactics upon that population. In order to receive protection from Mexico, that group then votes to join the USA.

So why is it okay for Ukraine to vote to leave, but when the ethnic Russians on the border of Ukraine, who are treated like shit, want to leave, it's not allowed?

Do I just have to read between the lines of where, in your example, the US interferes relentlessly in Mexican politics, including rigging elections and inserting US puppets in the government in order to keep the Mexican government compliant with whatever the US wants, and then, when that doesn't work, the US inserts military forces into those border regions to "encourage" them to seek protection from the US forces now amongst them as a way to justify stealing that territory? Oh, and where in your example did the US just unilaterally take a whole province from Mexico because we had a naval base there and we just wanted the province all to ourselves?

Nothing changes the fact that Russia wanted to play empire, and wanted a satellite, compliant state in Ukraine as part of that empire. And since, again, this isn't the 19th century when countries did that kind of thing and "great powers" played games with lesser countries, trying to invade and systematically remove populations that don't agree with you in favor of transplants who do so that you can take territory from another sovereign nation is simply not how the world works now in the 21st century. Putin doesn't just wish the USSR was still around, I think he wishes the Romanov dynasty was still a thing.

No that never stopped, only the tactics changed. An actual hot war is the last option when dealing with lesser countries when the puppet government options fall though, and that's what we're seeing play out in Ukraine (and in the ME with the US more recently).

[SDHornet]

Okay, I see what you are saying now about Mexico, but are they being attacked? Do the US have an agreement like Minsk we are violating?

You seem fine with people dying simply because you think Ukraine got to vote to leave, but no one else gets that privilege.

By the way, Putin is educated in International Law and while I'm sure we'll hear complaints he's "stretched the truth", he's followed the framework.

Ukraine left the USSR when it dissolved. Was Ukraine dissolving when the ethnic minorities tried to separate. You're comparing apples to oranges.

Putin hasn't stretched the truth, he's thrown it on the ground and stomped on it. At least Bush built international consensus before invading Iraq.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

They voted to leave, right?

[SDHornet]

Yes. America had absolutely nothing to do with the orange revolution. They are blameless and would never go back on their word.

While I can readily admit my understanding is limited, there are plenty of Ivy educated scholars that also point out US interference.

Let's also not forget you are perfectly fine with going back on US assurances there would be no encroachment.
Meaning, your word is worthless.

If Russia is such a menace, why have they only been able to capture small amounts of land?

Edit: My statement about word being worthless came out a little more harsh than expected upon rereading. How about a soft worthless?

Everybody interferes with everyone else. Obama interfered with Brexit. Trump interfered with anything he could think of. Biden interferes with whatever he's gaffing about that day. Politicians will speak on most any topic and give an opinion, their own or depending on the office they hold the opinion of that state office. But there's a huge, tremendous difference between political advocacy and a military invasion, and if you can't see that then I don't know what you can see. Even more so when that military invasion's purpose is to take as much territory from a foreign power as possible.

As for "encroachment", we've talked about that before - there is no "encroachment". NATO isn't an offensive military alliance. NATO isn't threatening Russia with invasion. NATO isn't threatening Russia's sovereign territory. Countries like Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and Ukraine asked for closer ties to the EU and in many cases asked for NATO membership. All they want is to not be invaded by Russia. Seems like a small concession for Russia to agree not to unilaterally invade other countries with the purpose of adding them to their empire, no?

As for the Russian menace, sure, they haven't looked very efficient in this conflict, and that's lucky for Ukraine. But Russia's incompetence on the battlefield has still resulted in tens of thousands of deaths, if not more, and the cause of millions of refugees. Sure, there's solace to be taken that Ukraine still and will exist, but not ever being invaded would be the more preferable option.

Don't tell that to Yugoslavia.

[houndawg]

nice tap out

Alright. I gave you the link to the P8 theory. Not sure on that one, but at least he put it out there for others to critique.

Time to step up and tell us who you think damaged the pipelines and why.

I don't know who damaged the pipelines - but when crazy shit is happening I'd start by looking at who has been acting crazy.

[SDHornet]

Do you think the thousands of children and innocent dead are cheering the results of sham elections in the Russian-occupied sections of the Ukraine?

And if Ukraine can win or can't win, that doesn't alter the fact that Russia is in the wrong here. Why would military success change that viewpoint? You can't just take territory from another sovereign country just because you want it. Again, times have changed, this isn't two centuries ago.

Wow. Just glossed over the fact children were indiscriminately killed in Iraq. The US bombed the shit out of infrastructure and fucked everyone for years for a lie. These are not equal and you fucking know better. Cold as shit. Good to know you backed this atrocity.

Sham election. Jesus H. Prove it. International observers say you are wrong.

In regards to Russia, why do you think they did the Special Operation? They left civilians and infrastructure alone, very much unlike Iraq.

It's not like our current administration drone fucked an aid worker and his family and tried to spin it as a hit on a terrorist on the way out the door of Afghanistan or anything.

[SDHornet]

Still shilling for Russia? That must be rather embarrassing for you.

"bUt the KhErSon ofFensiVe WaS a dISaStEr"

So Ukraine retake Kherson yet, or no?

[houndawg]

What I previously said. As a guy who gets his allowance from the American taxpayers he sure does talk tough, especially considering the Germans are now fucked for nat gas. I would send the joke of a diplomat to his bedroom without dinner.

Then Zelensky starts shilling for a "pre-emptive strike" against Russia. This guy is actively pushing for a nuclear war.

But "muh Russia bad" or something.

Zelensky is false flagging the Russians - its actually Ukaraine who is targeting civilians with missiles and then blaming the Russians. Same with the mass graves - its all a sham.

[SDHornet]

How is that gold? Explain to me how Russia didn't drop everything on infrastructure like in Iraq? You cool with blameless Iraqis dying?

Mariupol after being "liberated" by the Russians

Mariupol was a big Ukrainian Nazi hang out, no?

[houndawg]

Still shilling for Russia? That must be rather embarrassing for you.

"bUt the KhErSon ofFensiVe WaS a dISaStEr"

So Ukraine retake Kherson yet, or no?

Say as little as possible is exactly the right tactic now.... SD6.93