Coronavirus COVID-19

[BDKJMU]

[SeattleGriz]

1 in 35 had a myocardial injury from the Moderna vaccine.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epd ... /ejhf.2978

Been saying troponin tests were what needed to be done to assess vaccine induced heart damage.

This is the first I've seen where the women were more affected. Some speculate it's due to dose per kg.

[kalm]

1 in 35 had a myocardial injury from the Moderna vaccine.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epd ... /ejhf.2978

Been saying troponin tests were what needed to be done to assess vaccine induced heart damage.

This is the first I've seen where the women were more affected. Some speculate it's due to dose per kg.

How many had Covid as well? Because recent studies have shown you’re more likely to get it from the virus than the vaccine.

I think RFK Jr got nailed for this recently.

[SeattleGriz]

1 in 35 had a myocardial injury from the Moderna vaccine.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epd ... /ejhf.2978

Been saying troponin tests were what needed to be done to assess vaccine induced heart damage.

This is the first I've seen where the women were more affected. Some speculate it's due to dose per kg.

How many had Covid as well? Because recent studies have shown you’re more likely to get it from the virus than the vaccine.

I think RFK Jr got nailed for this recently.

Link please.

I have not seen any studies in which they performed troponin tests that proved the virus was even close to the vaccine.

[kalm]

How many had Covid as well? Because recent studies have shown you’re more likely to get it from the virus than the vaccine.

I think RFK Jr got nailed for this recently.

Link please.

I have not seen any studies in which they performed troponin tests that proved the virus was even close to the vaccine.

I figured a preeminent virologist such as yourself would have that info at his finger tips.

[kalm]

We identified 22 eligible studies consisting of 55.5 million vaccinated cohorts and 2.5 million in the infection cohort. The median age was 49 years (interquartile range (IQR): 38–56), and 49% (IQR: 43 to 52%) were men. Of patients diagnosed with myocarditis (in both vaccination and COVID-19 cohort) 1.07% were hospitalized and 0.015% died. The relative risk (RR) for myocarditis was more than seven times higher in the infection group than in the vaccination group [RR: 15 (95% CI: 11.09–19.81, infection group] and RR: 2 (95% CI: 1.44-2.65, vaccine group).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9467278/

[SeattleGriz]

Link please.

I have not seen any studies in which they performed troponin tests that proved the virus was even close to the vaccine.

I figured a preeminent virologist such as yourself would have that info at his finger tips.

Microbiologist.

[SeattleGriz]

We identified 22 eligible studies consisting of 55.5 million vaccinated cohorts and 2.5 million in the infection cohort. The median age was 49 years (interquartile range (IQR): 38–56), and 49% (IQR: 43 to 52%) were men. Of patients diagnosed with myocarditis (in both vaccination and COVID-19 cohort) 1.07% were hospitalized and 0.015% died. The relative risk (RR) for myocarditis was more than seven times higher in the infection group than in the vaccination group [RR: 15 (95% CI: 11.09–19.81, infection group] and RR: 2 (95% CI: 1.44-2.65, vaccine group).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9467278/

This is a top layer analysis. It's not going to pick up what the troponin studies pick up. These should have been ran a long time ago to determine heart damage from either COVID or the vaccine, but for some reason in all the billions thrown around, couldn't get funding to simply add a troponin to the list of other tests picked up by the gubmint.

The point being is that your study will never show that because they weren't looking. Those big studies put myocarditis rates at around 1 in 3-5,000. The Troponin study shows it's actually 1in 35 for the Moderna vaccine to have caused heart injuries detectable with blood test.

The Thai study they did with young boys put the rate at 1 in 300. That's way more 1 in 3-5,000.

[kalm]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9467278/

This is a top layer analysis. It's not going to pick up what the troponin studies pick up. These should have been ran a long time ago to determine heart damage from either COVID or the vaccine, but for some reason in all the billions thrown around, couldn't get funding to simply add a troponin to the list of other tests picked up by the gubmint.

The point being is that your study will never show that because they weren't looking. Those big studies put myocarditis rates at around 1 in 3-5,000. The Troponin study shows it's actually 1in 35 for the Moderna vaccine to have caused heart injuries detectable with blood test.

The Thai study they did with young boys put the rate at 1 in 300. That's way more 1 in 3-5,000.

You’re a troponin!

[SeattleGriz]

This is a top layer analysis. It's not going to pick up what the troponin studies pick up. These should have been ran a long time ago to determine heart damage from either COVID or the vaccine, but for some reason in all the billions thrown around, couldn't get funding to simply add a troponin to the list of other tests picked up by the gubmint.

The point being is that your study will never show that because they weren't looking. Those big studies put myocarditis rates at around 1 in 3-5,000. The Troponin study shows it's actually 1in 35 for the Moderna vaccine to have caused heart injuries detectable with blood test.

The Thai study they did with young boys put the rate at 1 in 300. That's way more 1 in 3-5,000.

You’re a troponin!

[JohnStOnge]

It's been a while since i stopped by here. Doing so to comment on this article at https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/22/us/p ... covid.html. It's a story that is very consistent with something I posted about here a while back. That something is that Florida's performance with respect to COVID-19 death rates doesn't look too good if you look at the period during which vaccines could have an effect. Here is a quote from the article:

Florida’s spike in deaths subsided that fall, as it did elsewhere. Overall, the state’s death rate during the pandemic, adjusted for age, ended up better than the national average. Some public health experts credit the state’s robust health system and strong performance in the pandemic’s first year or so.

But in Florida, unlike the nation as a whole — and states like New York and California that Mr. DeSantis likes to single out — most people who died from Covid died after vaccines became available to all adults, not before. As the governor’s political positions began to shift, so did his state’s death rate, for the worse.

Some time back I did a thing where I picked a start date for the period where vaccine effects would start. I picked 2/18/2021. i based it on looking at the date of the first vaccination in the US, 12/14/2020, and adding 66 days. I allowed time to complete the initial series, time after initial series to full antibody production, incubation period for acquiring COVID-19 disease, and time after acquiring COVID-19 to death if death occurs. A lot of variation around all of those things except the time to get the initial series so a fuzzy estimate. But still, I think, a reasonable starting point to pick.

So, on 2/18/2021, which I would pick to look at how states were doing up to the point where vaccines became a factor, Florida was 28th in COVID-19 death rate.

When I did all that I was looking at and end point of 11/6/2022. So what happened when I looked at how Florida ranked in terms of death rate during the period 2/19/2021 through 11/6/2022? Third.

So a state that was below the median in death rate before vaccines became a factor, at 28th, was near the top, at third, during the 2/19/2021 through 11/6/2022 period after vaccines became a factor. An independent observation very consistent with the point the article makes.

[JohnStOnge]

1 in 35 had a myocardial injury from the Moderna vaccine.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epd ... /ejhf.2978

Been saying troponin tests were what needed to be done to assess vaccine induced heart damage.

This is the first I've seen where the women were more affected. Some speculate it's due to dose per kg.

From the linked study':

Given the small extent of acute cardiomyocyte injury in our study, i.e. cTnT levels of about one-fourth of those observed in patients with spontaneous myopericarditis,10 and its transient nature, good long-term outcomes can be expected. COVID-19 associates with a substantially higher risk for myocarditis that mRNA vaccination33, and myocarditis related to COVID-19 infection has shown a higher mortality than myocarditis related to mRNA-vaccination.34,35 Thus, for the majority of individuals, the overall very favorable risk-benefit ratio of booster immunizations persists.

[JohnStOnge]

Here is an interesting graphic from that article on DeSantis at https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/22/us/p ... covid.html:



It's a little different that what I looked at later in the process because it is looking at fully vaccinated rate while I was looking at boosted rate as an indicator of percent following current vaccine recommendations. But it does show a very strong association such that states with higher vaccination rates tend to have lower death rates.

I also have some thoughts about the fact that the death rates are age adjusted. I have no issue with CDC doing that. The fact that age is a huge risk factor is well documented. But, for whatever reason, when you just look at the state by state data it is not the biggest factor in variation in state death rates. Poverty is. Here is a correlation matrix I did a while back using death rates as of 6/2/2023:



Yellow highlight means a correlation coefficient significant at > 95% confidence. Blue highlight means significant at > 90% confidence but <95% confidence. As you can see, one age factor (% population 75 years old or older), is marginally significant. But poverty rate clearly appears to be more important.

I also did a backwards elimination regression analysis using % 75 or older as the age variable and the final model did not include % population 75 or older as a factor. The final model had population density and poverty rate as the factors.

So I don't know if adjusting for age is the most important thing to do if you're interested in controlling for important things while looking at state to state variation. Florida, for example, gets a big benefit is you look at % population 75 or older. It is ranked number 1 in that. But poverty rate is a more important factor in state to state death rate variation than % population 75 or older is, and Florida is 20th in poverty rate. Middle of the pack.

And, again: If you take population density and poverty rate into account mathematically, % population 75 or older is not a ''significant'' factor at all.

So i don't know if cutting Florida slack for having an older population is really legitimate. Again: The fact that when you look at age groups there is clearly a much greater risk for older people is very well established. But, for whatever reason, that does not translate into population age distribution being anywhere near the most important demographic factor in state to state death rate variation. it just doesn't. So far, when I've looked at this stuff, the only time it is a ''statistically significant'' factor at all is when you take vaccination rate into account. And it's still not anywhere near as important mathematically as poverty rate is when you do that.

[SeattleGriz]

1 in 35 had a myocardial injury from the Moderna vaccine.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epd ... /ejhf.2978

Been saying troponin tests were what needed to be done to assess vaccine induced heart damage.

This is the first I've seen where the women were more affected. Some speculate it's due to dose per kg.

From the linked study':

Given the small extent of acute cardiomyocyte injury in our study, i.e. cTnT levels of about one-fourth of those observed in patients with spontaneous myopericarditis,10 and its transient nature, good long-term outcomes can be expected. COVID-19 associates with a substantially higher risk for myocarditis that mRNA vaccination33, and myocarditis related to COVID-19 infection has shown a higher mortality than myocarditis related to mRNA-vaccination.34,35 Thus, for the majority of individuals, the overall very favorable risk-benefit ratio of booster immunizations persists.

Bro. It's not a matter of how "bad" the authors of the study feel the cases are, it's the fact 1 in 35 are showing heart damage on a test they use to assess heart attack damage. 1 in 35 is absolutely unacceptable for a vaccine. You tell all those people "it's just a little heart damage" and see what response you get from them, the parents and their doctor.

Also, remember we were told COVID was causing more heart damage than the vaccines. This absolutely blows that claim out of the water. Not even close. You can damn well bet that if COVID was causing heart damage at that rate, it would have been broadcast non stop and used to scare more people into taking the vaccine.

I can also guarantee that before COVID, a Cardiologist would claim anything that caused that level of damage as very serious.

[JohnStOnge]

From the linked study':

Bro. It's not a matter of how "bad" the authors of the study feel the cases are, it's the fact 1 in 35 are showing heart damage on a test they use to assess heart attack damage. 1 in 35 is absolutely unacceptable for a vaccine. You tell all those people "it's just a little heart damage" and see what response you get from them, the parents and their doctor.

Also, remember we were told COVID was causing more heart damage than the vaccines. This absolutely blows that claim out of the water. Not even close. You can damn well bet that if COVID was causing heart damage at that rate, it would have been broadcast non stop and used to scare more people into taking the vaccine.

I can also guarantee that before COVID, a Cardiologist would claim anything that caused that level of damage as very serious.

I suspect that the authors of the paper are way more qualified to comment on what that level of damage means than you or i are and i don't think any reasonable person would interpret what they said about it as meaning they think it's "very serious." They described it as "mild and transient."

They also wrote, ''It is mandatory to put our findings into perspective with the incidence and extent of myocardial injury associated with COVID-19 infection. Before the COVID-19 vaccine were available, the incidence and extent of myocardial injury associated with COVID-19 infection was much higher than observed in this active surveillance study after booster vaccination.''

And, again, they explicitly stated that what they saw does not change the fact that "...the overall very favorable risk-benefit ratio of booster immunizations persists." it looks to me like 9 of the authors were affiliated with the University Hospital's ''Department of Cardiology and Cardiovascular Research Institute," so I'm pretty sure confident that some of them qualify as cardiologists.

[JohnStOnge]

I also think it is a leap to think that finding the substance in the blood at whatever levels they found them at under the circumstances in which they found them means that something really serious happened because the same substance is used to detect likely heart attacks. Nobody in the study suffered any serious issues. Nothing of concern comparable to the concern that would be raised by a heart attack happened.

The fact that troponin is used to detect heart attacks does not mean that it indicated any serious problems in the context of that study. it didn't.

[SeattleGriz]

I also think it is a leap to think that finding the substance in the blood at whatever levels they found them at under the circumstances in which they found them means that something really serious happened because the same substance is used to detect likely heart attacks. Nobody in the study suffered any serious issues. Nothing of concern comparable to the concern that would be raised by a heart attack happened.

The fact that troponin is used to detect heart attacks does not mean that it indicated any serious problems in the context of that study. it didn't.

Do no harm is part of the Hippocratic oath and especially applicable to vaccines. Vaccines are supposed to be extremely low in side effects, as they are used as preventative medicine. If a person, which was about 99% of the population, was not harmed by COVID, to see 1 in 35 injured by the vaccine is unacceptable.

The fact that you would say that Troponins, which leaked out of the heart muscle cells due to damage, is no big deal, speaks volumes. You do know that myocarditis can lead to atrial fibrillation, which can then lead to heart failure if you physically exert yourself too much while the heart tissue is inflamed, don't you?

You must also know that the people in the study that were diagnosed with myocarditis were then put under medical watch and told not to do anything strenuous until the heart healed. If it was no big deal, as you say, then why were they watched by the providers and told not to do anything strenuous?

You should stop digging that hole right about now.

[houndawg]

Link please.

I have not seen any studies in which they performed troponin tests that proved the virus was even close to the vaccine.

I figured a preeminent virologist such as yourself would have that info at his finger tips.

When you're also an olympic level athlete who trains Navy SEALS while juggling Putin's balls sometimes the small shit gets put on the back burner.

[houndawg]

I also think it is a leap to think that finding the substance in the blood at whatever levels they found them at under the circumstances in which they found them means that something really serious happened because the same substance is used to detect likely heart attacks. Nobody in the study suffered any serious issues. Nothing of concern comparable to the concern that would be raised by a heart attack happened.

The fact that troponin is used to detect heart attacks does not mean that it indicated any serious problems in the context of that study. it didn't.

Do no harm is part of the Hippocratic oath and especially applicable to vaccines. Vaccines are supposed to be extremely low in side effects, as they are used as preventative medicine. If a person, which was about 99% of the population, was not harmed by COVID, to see 1 in 35 injured by the vaccine is unacceptable.

The fact that you would say that Troponins, which leaked out of the heart muscle cells due to damage, is no big deal, speaks volumes. You do know that myocarditis can lead to atrial fibrillation, which can then lead to heart failure if you physically exert yourself too much while the heart tissue is inflamed, don't you?

You must also know that the people in the study that were diagnosed with myocarditis were then put under medical watch and told not to do anything strenuous until the heart healed. If it was no big deal, as you say, then why were they watched by the providers and told not to do anything strenuous?

You should stop digging that hole right about now.

Doogie Howser, MD

How do you do it all..?

[SeattleGriz]

Do no harm is part of the Hippocratic oath and especially applicable to vaccines. Vaccines are supposed to be extremely low in side effects, as they are used as preventative medicine. If a person, which was about 99% of the population, was not harmed by COVID, to see 1 in 35 injured by the vaccine is unacceptable.

The fact that you would say that Troponins, which leaked out of the heart muscle cells due to damage, is no big deal, speaks volumes. You do know that myocarditis can lead to atrial fibrillation, which can then lead to heart failure if you physically exert yourself too much while the heart tissue is inflamed, don't you?

You must also know that the people in the study that were diagnosed with myocarditis were then put under medical watch and told not to do anything strenuous until the heart healed. If it was no big deal, as you say, then why were they watched by the providers and told not to do anything strenuous?

You should stop digging that hole right about now.

Doogie Howser, MD

How do you do it all..?

It's called being informed bro. Isn't that hard to do, especially as I've been involved with the medical industry in one fashion or another since the 90's. As someone who trains at 91% and higher of max heart rate, I've also paid close attention to this topic.

Why don't you do yourself a favor and read up on Troponins and myocarditis. It's not a tough subject.

We won't get into the recent study in which two boys who got vaccine induced myocarditis recovered, then had it return nine months later. Too small a sample, but worrisome.

[SeattleGriz]

Do no harm is part of the Hippocratic oath and especially applicable to vaccines. Vaccines are supposed to be extremely low in side effects, as they are used as preventative medicine. If a person, which was about 99% of the population, was not harmed by COVID, to see 1 in 35 injured by the vaccine is unacceptable.

The fact that you would say that Troponins, which leaked out of the heart muscle cells due to damage, is no big deal, speaks volumes. You do know that myocarditis can lead to atrial fibrillation, which can then lead to heart failure if you physically exert yourself too much while the heart tissue is inflamed, don't you?

You must also know that the people in the study that were diagnosed with myocarditis were then put under medical watch and told not to do anything strenuous until the heart healed. If it was no big deal, as you say, then why were they watched by the providers and told not to do anything strenuous?

You should stop digging that hole right about now.

Doogie Howser, MD

How do you do it all..?

It's called being informed bro. Isn't that hard to do, especially as I've been involved with the medical industry in one fashion or another since the 90's. As someone who trains at 91% and higher of max heart rate, I've also paid close attention to this topic.

Why don't you do yourself a favor and read up on Troponins and myocarditis. It's not a tough subject.

We won't get into the recent study in which two boys who got vaccine induced myocarditis recovered, then had it return nine months later. Too small a sample, but worrisome.

[houndawg]

Doogie Howser, MD

How do you do it all..?

It's called being informed bro. Isn't that hard to do, especially as I've been involved with the medical industry in one fashion or another since the 90's. As someone who trains at 91% and higher of max heart rate, I've also paid close attention to this topic.

Why don't you do yourself a favor and read up on Troponins and myocarditis. It's not a tough subject.

We won't get into the recent study in which two boys who got vaccine induced myocarditis recovered, then had it return nine months later. Too small a sample, but worrisome.

Must be weaklings.

I had all the Moderna shots and boosters, never felt a thing.

Sounds like bullshit

[BDKJMU]

It's called being informed bro. Isn't that hard to do, especially as I've been involved with the medical industry in one fashion or another since the 90's. As someone who trains at 91% and higher of max heart rate, I've also paid close attention to this topic.

Why don't you do yourself a favor and read up on Troponins and myocarditis. It's not a tough subject.

We won't get into the recent study in which two boys who got vaccine induced myocarditis recovered, then had it return nine months later. Too small a sample, but worrisome.

Must be weaklings.

I had all the Moderna shots and boosters, never felt a thing.

Sounds like bullshit

We‘re not talking about old farts here, but young and middle aged people.

[SeattleGriz]

It's called being informed bro. Isn't that hard to do, especially as I've been involved with the medical industry in one fashion or another since the 90's. As someone who trains at 91% and higher of max heart rate, I've also paid close attention to this topic.

Why don't you do yourself a favor and read up on Troponins and myocarditis. It's not a tough subject.

We won't get into the recent study in which two boys who got vaccine induced myocarditis recovered, then had it return nine months later. Too small a sample, but worrisome.

Must be weaklings.

I had all the Moderna shots and boosters, never felt a thing.

Sounds like bullshit

You got a thing against women tough guy?

Actually Moderna gives you the largest dosage and they are thinking it's due to women simply being smaller - don't need as big a dose.

In addition, if you're elderly, your cellular machinery isn't as effective. You probably aren't making the same amount of spike protein per shot as those younger.

I still think it's an interesting technology, but was brought to market at least 5-10 years early. On the positive, the pharmaceutical industry collected a lot of data, so the next go around should be much cleaner.

Lastly if they could come up with an mRNA technology that would help my autistic son, I would very seriously weigh giving him a shot.

[houndawg]

Must be weaklings.

I had all the Moderna shots and boosters, never felt a thing.

Sounds like bullshit

We‘re not talking about old farts here, but young and middle aged people.

Yeah, they're soft these days.