College presidents want drinking age lowered to 18

[dbackjon]

College presidents from about 100 of the nation's best-known universities, including Duke, Dartmouth and Ohio State, are calling on lawmakers to consider lowering the drinking age from 21 to 18, saying current laws actually encourage dangerous binge drinking on campus.

The movement called the Amethyst Initiative began quietly recruiting presidents more than a year ago to provoke national debate about the drinking age.

"This is a law that is routinely evaded," said John McCardell, former president of Middlebury College in Vermont who started the organization. "It is a law that the people at whom it is directed believe is unjust and unfair and discriminatory."

Other prominent schools in the group include Syracuse, Tufts, Colgate, Kenyon and Morehouse.

But even before the presidents begin the public phase of their efforts, which may include publishing newspaper ads in the coming weeks, they are already facing sharp criticism.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/conten ... 7&cxcat=16

[Col Hogan]

Let's see...

At 18 one can:

Vote for President
Join the Military
Sign contracts

But you can't drink alcohol legally????

It's an idea that needs to make a come back...now...

Obviously, raising the age back to 21 hasn't seriously reduced the amount of drinking by 18 - 20 yeaar olds...

[dbackjon]

Let's see...

At 18 one can:

Vote for President
Join the Military
Sign contracts

But you can't drink alcohol legally????

It's an idea that needs to make a come back...now...

Obviously, raising the age back to 21 hasn't seriously reduced the amount of drinking by 18 - 20 yeaar olds...

Nope, it hasn't

[SuperHornet]

I'm not a fan of drinking at ANY age. However, there is evidence that Europeans who grow up with a culture of "responsible" drinking (i.e. wine around the table) have a much lower incidence of alcoholism. I'm not sure that this would translate to the US, but anything's possible.

The old military rule was beer/wine at 18, hard stuff at 21. Base clubs were built right next to the barracks to encourage youngsters to do their drinking near to the barracks to prevent DWIs. In general, it worked well since if anyone got too sloshed, his buddies could lug his sorry carcass back to his room. The only problem was that anyone below 21 became an automatic DWI as soon as he crossed the gate. That wasn't a HUGE issue, but it did happen often enough to be a concern.

If such a rule were to be enacted, it would have to be universal as opposed to on-campus-only. One, it would reduce police work as currently, a cop has to determine one's age; anyone with even one drink below 21 is in violation, while someone over may be OK if not over the limit. To enact this on-campus but not off would invite all sorts of extra litigation that our court system does not need.

While I don't like drinking at all, I would consider a universalized old-school military rule. If someone wants to throw stuff that tastes nasty down the hatch, so be it. I'm not going to go there.

[HI54UNI]

I think the 21 rule is stupid but I don't agree with tying it to 18 either. I turned 18 in October of my Senior year in high school. You think I'd be buying for my buddies that weren't 18 yet? Tying it to graduation from high school would be better IMO.

[Col Hogan]

I think the 21 rule is stupid but I don't agree with tying it to 18 either. I turned 18 in October of my Senior year in high school. You think I'd be buying for my buddies that weren't 18 yet? Tying it to graduation from high school would be better IMO.

I could support that...

18 or HS Graduation...

[dbackjon]

I think the 21 rule is stupid but I don't agree with tying it to 18 either. I turned 18 in October of my Senior year in high school. You think I'd be buying for my buddies that weren't 18 yet? Tying it to graduation from high school would be better IMO.

I could support that...

18 or HS Graduation...

Nightmare to enforce, though....

[SuperHornet]

You sure about that, Warner-man? You sure you want a Doogie sipping brewskis before he's operating on you?



Seriously, though, you're going to have the argument regardless of which way you go. In addition, tying it to an event rather than age essentially puts the decision in the hands of the school districts, which might be corrupt. Do you really want a 30-year-old HS dropout who joined the military denied the right to drink? Besides, if you tie it to an event such as graduation, you're going to have to put in exceptions for weird situations like that, and what cop is going to be able to remember all of that during a traffic stop along with all the other stuff he has to know? Age is the only way to do it; it's cut and dried, even if you split it based on beer/wine and hard stuff.

[AZGrizFan]

Let's see...

At 18 one can:

Vote for President
Join the Military
Sign contracts

But you can't drink alcohol legally????

It's an idea that needs to make a come back...now...

Obviously, raising the age back to 21 hasn't seriously reduced the amount of drinking by 18 - 20 yeaar olds...

You know, putting people in prison hasn't stopped murder from being committed in this country either. Maybe we should just eliminate murder as a crime.

Yeah, it's an extreme example, but changing a law because people willfully break it isn't the right reason. Much like raising the speed limit on a certain stretch of road because "well, everybody drives 20 mph over the speed limit anyways".

If there's a social mores reason to reduce the drinking age, so be it. But not just because it hasn't changed people's behavior.

[Appaholic]

Let's see...

At 18 one can:

Vote for President
Join the Military
Sign contracts

But you can't drink alcohol legally????

It's an idea that needs to make a come back...now...

Obviously, raising the age back to 21 hasn't seriously reduced the amount of drinking by 18 - 20 yeaar olds...

You know, putting people in prison hasn't stopped murder from being committed in this country either. Maybe we should just eliminate murder as a crime.

Yeah, it's an extreme example, but changing a law because people willfully break it isn't the right reason. Much like raising the speed limit on a certain stretch of road because "well, everybody drives 20 mph over the speed limit anyways".

If there's a social mores reason to reduce the drinking age, so be it. But not just because it hasn't changed people's behavior.

I agree, but when that law diverts law enforcement's attention away from other violent crimes, it becomes a nuisance and should be changed.....especially when the law was originally 18 and moving to 21 was basically the work of a strong and vocal interest group.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

I'm a fairly simple fella but what I see is an opportunity for more 18,19, & 20 yr. old hotties to be in the bar legally. It' would be fairly hot to have a little gal coming in for the birthday shot and saying it's my 18th birthday. I'm for it.

[Col Hogan]

You sure about that, Warner-man? You sure you want a Doogie sipping brewskis before he's operating on you?



Seriously, though, you're going to have the argument regardless of which way you go. In addition, tying it to an event rather than age essentially puts the decision in the hands of the school districts, which might be corrupt. Do you really want a 30-year-old HS dropout who joined the military denied the right to drink? Besides, if you tie it to an event such as graduation, you're going to have to put in exceptions for weird situations like that, and what cop is going to be able to remember all of that during a traffic stop along with all the other stuff he has to know? Age is the only way to do it; it's cut and dried, even if you split it based on beer/wine and hard stuff.

I didn't say either/or...

Age 18, with your HS Graduation being a mitigating factor to extend the right past the day you turn 18...

If you have dropped out of HS, then it's 18...If you graduate before you turn 18, it's 18...

If you don't graduate until age 18 + x days...then you can drink at age 18 + x days...

jon, you are correct...difficult to enforce, given current thinking...but I think I have a way...

Most licenses have a bar code on it...in Texas, for example, a hand-held bar-code reader is in a bar...

The bar keep simply swipes the license, and it tell him/her if the license is ligit and what the age is of the holder...

When a 16 or 17 year old is issued a license...for example...their high school could be asked to provide graduation dates...that is put onto the bar-code when the reader could then tell the vendor if this 18 year old can or cannot drink...

That's just one idea...a lot smarter people than I might have more...

[AZGrizFan]

I'm a fairly simple fella but what I see is an opportunity for more 18,19, & 20 yr. old hotties to be in the bar legally. It' would be fairly hot to have a little gal coming in for the birthday shot and saying it's my 18th birthday. I'm for it.

See...I knew Ursus "got" it. HERE is a social reason to decrease the drinking age.


side note to Ursus: The unfortunate side effect in your scenario is also more 18, 19 and 20 year old punks who think they're 10 feet tall and bulletproof who continually insist on attempting to break your hand with their face because you're hittin' on their ho'!

[HI54UNI]

You sure about that, Warner-man? You sure you want a Doogie sipping brewskis before he's operating on you?



Seriously, though, you're going to have the argument regardless of which way you go. In addition, tying it to an event rather than age essentially puts the decision in the hands of the school districts, which might be corrupt. Do you really want a 30-year-old HS dropout who joined the military denied the right to drink? Besides, if you tie it to an event such as graduation, you're going to have to put in exceptions for weird situations like that, and what cop is going to be able to remember all of that during a traffic stop along with all the other stuff he has to know? Age is the only way to do it; it's cut and dried, even if you split it based on beer/wine and hard stuff.

I didn't say either/or...

Age 18, with your HS Graduation being a mitigating factor to extend the right past the day you turn 18...

If you have dropped out of HS, then it's 18...If you graduate before you turn 18, it's 18...

If you don't graduate until age 18 + x days...then you can drink at age 18 + x days...

jon, you are correct...difficult to enforce, given current thinking...but I think I have a way...

Most licenses have a bar code on it...in Texas, for example, a hand-held bar-code reader is in a bar...

The bar keep simply swipes the license, and it tell him/her if the license is ligit and what the age is of the holder...

When a 16 or 17 year old is issued a license...for example...their high school could be asked to provide graduation dates...that is put onto the bar-code when the reader could then tell the vendor if this 18 year old can or cannot drink...

That's just one idea...a lot smarter people than I might have more...

Good plan that explains the point I was making with the graduation requirement. 18 is not necessarily the right age. Neither is 19 in some situations. Yet a kid that graduates high school, gets a job instead of going to college should be able to go out for a beer after work with his coworkers. We put men on the moon, surely we can figure out how to verify whether or not somebody can drink.

[BlueHen86]

I didn't say either/or...

Age 18, with your HS Graduation being a mitigating factor to extend the right past the day you turn 18...

If you have dropped out of HS, then it's 18...If you graduate before you turn 18, it's 18...

If you don't graduate until age 18 + x days...then you can drink at age 18 + x days...

jon, you are correct...difficult to enforce, given current thinking...but I think I have a way...

Most licenses have a bar code on it...in Texas, for example, a hand-held bar-code reader is in a bar...

The bar keep simply swipes the license, and it tell him/her if the license is ligit and what the age is of the holder...

When a 16 or 17 year old is issued a license...for example...their high school could be asked to provide graduation dates...that is put onto the bar-code when the reader could then tell the vendor if this 18 year old can or cannot drink...

That's just one idea...a lot smarter people than I might have more...

If you're going to tie the drinking age to H.S. graduation, I would make it 21 if they don't have a diploma. It gives more incentive to stay in school. I think you might find that people would drop out in order to drink if you allow drop outs to drink at 18.

[SuperHornet]

There's a problem with the bar code thingie. What if the cop's reading device is on the fritz or he forgot to bring it? If a 19-year-old is at, oh, say .05 but otherwise OK, does the cop let him go on the assumption that he's graduated? Or does he impound the dude on the assumption that he flunked or dropped out?

You're also asking for kids to hack into the system and change the records WarGames-style. You know how smart these kids are.

It's just not worth it. Make it either 18 or 21 and enforce it for EVERYONE.

[ChetSteadman]

You sure about that, Warner-man? You sure you want a Doogie sipping brewskis before he's operating on you?



Seriously, though, you're going to have the argument regardless of which way you go. In addition, tying it to an event rather than age essentially puts the decision in the hands of the school districts, which might be corrupt. Do you really want a 30-year-old HS dropout who joined the military denied the right to drink? Besides, if you tie it to an event such as graduation, you're going to have to put in exceptions for weird situations like that, and what cop is going to be able to remember all of that during a traffic stop along with all the other stuff he has to know? Age is the only way to do it; it's cut and dried, even if you split it based on beer/wine and hard stuff.

I didn't say either/or...

Age 18, with your HS Graduation being a mitigating factor to extend the right past the day you turn 18...

If you have dropped out of HS, then it's 18...If you graduate before you turn 18, it's 18...

If you don't graduate until age 18 + x days...then you can drink at age 18 + x days...

jon, you are correct...difficult to enforce, given current thinking...but I think I have a way...

Most licenses have a bar code on it...in Texas, for example, a hand-held bar-code reader is in a bar...

The bar keep simply swipes the license, and it tell him/her if the license is ligit and what the age is of the holder...

When a 16 or 17 year old is issued a license...for example...their high school could be asked to provide graduation dates...that is put onto the bar-code when the reader could then tell the vendor if this 18 year old can or cannot drink...

That's just one idea...a lot smarter people than I might have more...

One problem with your proposal is that education groups would immediately jump in and say that kids are dropping out of school on their 18th so they can drink, instead of finishing the final 1-9 months of high school. Would the argument be valid? In a few extreme cases, yes. But these fanatics would have a field day with it - "WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!?!"

IMO, there is nothing wrong with being able to buy/drink alcohol when you are 18. Though I wasn't able to legally purchase it, I had my first beer when I was 17. I drank once or twice a month when I was in high school, at keggers and such. My parents were responsible and taught me at an early age that I was to never drink and drive, and I never did (in high school). When someone would have a party, everyone just stayed at that person's house.

Unfortunately, there is no way to have a "responsibility test" to determine if someone is mature enough to handle the responsibility that comes from being able to purchase and consume alcohol. Age is probably the best determinant that we have.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

I'm a fairly simple fella but what I see is an opportunity for more 18,19, & 20 yr. old hotties to be in the bar legally. It' would be fairly hot to have a little gal coming in for the birthday shot and saying it's my 18th birthday. I'm for it.

See...I knew Ursus "got" it. HERE is a social reason to decrease the drinking age.


side note to Ursus: The unfortunate side effect in your scenario is also more 18, 19 and 20 year old punks who think they're 10 feet tall and bulletproof who continually insist on attempting to break your hand with their face because you're hittin' on their ho'!

Yeah, I thought of that when I posted it but the thing is the 21 year old males are much more sure of themselves than the typical 18, 19, 20 yr. old males. We already have to deal with those guys. And there are very few 21 yr. olds that are willing to press things very far when they see that their bluff of tough is not being heeded. At the very least the landscape will be better for viewing and put a little more competition in the mix for the 20 & 30 & even 40 something hotties to make a little more effort. As we all know competition is the way to get the better product.