DOD going Green

[Col Hogan]

After people and healthcare, fuel is the biggest cost in operating the Department of Defense...so it's beneficial to the economy (and environment) that Defense looks for ways to cut fuel costs...

And a small, but really major, step has taken place with the successful flight of a fighter plane...an A-10 attack jet which is used extensively in Afghanistan... using a biofuel blend...

The Air Force is the largest user of jet fuel within the Department of Defense, and plans to have all of the aircraft in its inventory certified to fly using alternative fuels by the end of 2012. The current fleet of aircraft consumes 2.4 billion gallons of jet fuel per year. The A-10 test flight went well with “no problems whatsoever” according to the pilot.

Biofuel used in the A-10 flight is referred to as hydrotreated renewable jet, or HRJ. The biomass-derived fuel is created from animal fats and plant oils. The camelina plant, the feedstock for the demonstration flight, is just one of the biofuels being looked at by the military.



Read More http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/03 ... z0jfoVpPQZ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Airlines are watching these Air Force tests as they too are looking for ways to cut fuel costs and reduce overall oil consumption...

[Benne]

After people and healthcare, fuel is the biggest cost in operating the Department of Defense...so it's beneficial to the economy (and environment) that Defense looks for ways to cut fuel costs...

And a small, but really major, step has taken place with the successful flight of a fighter plane...an A-10 attack jet which is used extensively in Afghanistan... using a biofuel blend...

The Air Force is the largest user of jet fuel within the Department of Defense, and plans to have all of the aircraft in its inventory certified to fly using alternative fuels by the end of 2012. The current fleet of aircraft consumes 2.4 billion gallons of jet fuel per year. The A-10 test flight went well with “no problems whatsoever” according to the pilot.

Biofuel used in the A-10 flight is referred to as hydrotreated renewable jet, or HRJ. The biomass-derived fuel is created from animal fats and plant oils. The camelina plant, the feedstock for the demonstration flight, is just one of the biofuels being looked at by the military.



Read More http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/03 ... z0jfoVpPQZ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Airlines are watching these Air Force tests as they too are looking for ways to cut fuel costs and reduce overall oil consumption...

So private industry is watching the Feds to see how they can save money.

[Col Hogan]

After people and healthcare, fuel is the biggest cost in operating the Department of Defense...so it's beneficial to the economy (and environment) that Defense looks for ways to cut fuel costs...

And a small, but really major, step has taken place with the successful flight of a fighter plane...an A-10 attack jet which is used extensively in Afghanistan... using a biofuel blend...



Airlines are watching these Air Force tests as they too are looking for ways to cut fuel costs and reduce overall oil consumption...

So private industry is watching the Feds to see how they can save money.

I think the airlines want to see how planes react with the fuels before putting them into their planes...where do you think lots of aviation research comes from (NASA, Air Force, Navy, etc)...

[93henfan]

Algae-based biofuels, IMHO, are going to be huge before the end of many of our lifetimes. The crop-based biofuels like soy biodiesel and corn ethanol have proven that they aren't really feasible due to their competition with the food supply, but algae has no such conflict, and the quicker we can find more ways to farm it in mass quantities, the better.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03907.html

[dbackjon]

Good for them.

[bandl]

Good for them.

The algae or the DOD?

[dbackjon]

Good for them.

The algae or the DOD?

Both.

Great that the algae are willing to die for our freedom.

[Ibanez]

Algae-based biofuels, IMHO, are going to be huge before the end of many of our lifetimes. The crop-based biofuels like soy biodiesel and corn ethanol have proven that they aren't really feasible due to their competition with the food supply, but algae has no such conflict, and the quicker we can find more ways to farm it in mass quantities, the better.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03907.html

Isn't more than 50% of the oxygen you breathe is produced from Algae (or some other marine, plant life?) If we cultivate mass quantities, could this effect the chemistry of the air? I'm not a scientist.

http://ecology.com/features/mostimportantorganism/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/b ... o99024.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bandl]

The algae or the DOD?

Both.

Great that the algae are willing to die for our freedom.

Agreed. They are very Canadian-like in that regard.

[Ibanez]

Continental Airlines successfully tested this fuel in 2009. Very interesting, i'm not getting my hopes up though.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... -of-future" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Continental's primary role in the demonstration was to show that the biofuel blend would perform just like traditional jet fuel in our existing aircraft without modification of the engines or the aircraft," said Holden Shannon, Continental's senior vice president for global research and security, during a congressional hearing last month. "This is important because ... the current engine and airframe technology is unlikely to change materially for many years, so it is crucial that alternative fuel be safe for use with the current aircraft technology."

Zenk said the test flight showed that algae fuel gets better mileage than petroleum-based jet fuel. "We noticed a 4 percent increase in energy density in the fuels because of the lower-burning temperatures in the engine itself, which resulted in greater fuel mileage," he said.

If it's true, i'm curious as to the cost vs the savings.

[AZGrizFan]

DOD was VERY green when I was active duty....had numerous nuclear powered surface ships that NEVER had to refuel....now they're all gone but the carriers.

[dbackjon]

DOD was VERY green when I was active duty....had numerous nuclear powered surface ships that NEVER had to refuel....now they're all gone but the carriers.

Agreed (although are the subs still nuclear powered?

[Wedgebuster]

DOD was VERY green when I was active duty....had numerous nuclear powered surface ships that NEVER had to refuel....now they're all gone but the carriers.

We are assuming that you composted or otherwise recycled those tons of spud peelings you created during your stint?

[Ibanez]

DOD was VERY green when I was active duty....had numerous nuclear powered surface ships that NEVER had to refuel....now they're all gone but the carriers.

Agreed (although are the subs still nuclear powered?

Yes. we have the training school here.

[93henfan]

DOD was VERY green when I was active duty....had numerous nuclear powered surface ships that NEVER had to refuel....now they're all gone but the carriers.

Care to share what they did with their garbage?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Paci ... bage_Patch

[kalm]

So private industry is watching the Feds to see how they can save money.

I think the airlines want to see how planes react with the fuels before putting them into their planes...where do you think lots of aviation research comes from (NASA, Air Force, Navy, etc)...

Shhhhhh, that's socialist talk.

[Pwns]

Algae-based biofuels, IMHO, are going to be huge before the end of many of our lifetimes. The crop-based biofuels like soy biodiesel and corn ethanol have proven that they aren't really feasible due to their competition with the food supply, but algae has no such conflict, and the quicker we can find more ways to farm it in mass quantities, the better.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03907.html

Is it worth it after considering the energy costs of growing, harvasting, and processing the algae?

[oldsloguy]

I think the airlines want to see how planes react with the fuels before putting them into their planes...where do you think lots of aviation research comes from (NASA, Air Force, Navy, etc)...

Shhhhhh, that's socialist talk.

You can’t really use the military as an example to prove that the government can really run socialist operations successfully. The typical government bureaucrat has no skin in the game to motivate him. The military guys know that their lives depend upon their being prepared, efficient and effective. They are highly motivated. That difference in motivation is very easy to observe.

[93henfan]

Algae-based biofuels, IMHO, are going to be huge before the end of many of our lifetimes. The crop-based biofuels like soy biodiesel and corn ethanol have proven that they aren't really feasible due to their competition with the food supply, but algae has no such conflict, and the quicker we can find more ways to farm it in mass quantities, the better.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03907.html

Is it worth it after considering the energy costs of growing, harvasting, and processing the algae?

Not right now, no, but it's by far the most promising of the potential biofuels. If you read the article, they mention that it would take over half the land mass of the US to grow enough soybeans to power our nation, but an area in the desert roughly the size of Maryland could be used to farm the algae required to fuel the nation.

Of course, this nation (nay world) is never proactive about anything until it has a gun put to its head, so we'll likely not be forced to make the technology work until we are well into the after-effects of peak oil.

[kalm]

Shhhhhh, that's socialist talk.

You can’t really use the military as an example to prove that the government can really run socialist operations successfully. The typical government bureaucrat has no skin in the game to motivate him. The military guys know that their lives depend upon their being prepared, efficient and effective. They are highly motivated. That difference in motivation is very easy to observe.

My point, somewhat tongue in cheek, was that government funded R&D whether it's the military, NASA, med schools, ag schools etc has led to a tremendous amount of private sector innovation and profit. I was throwing it out there for the "all govmint spending is socialistic and bad for the economy" crowd.

That being said, there are many highly motivated non-government workers.

[Ibanez]

Algae-based biofuels, IMHO, are going to be huge before the end of many of our lifetimes. The crop-based biofuels like soy biodiesel and corn ethanol have proven that they aren't really feasible due to their competition with the food supply, but algae has no such conflict, and the quicker we can find more ways to farm it in mass quantities, the better.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03907.html

Is it worth it after considering the energy costs of growing, harvasting, and processing the algae?

That's what I was asking. Of course, I expect and am prepared for a reasonable break even point where we begin to enjoy true savings and value added. If this could decrease our dependence on oil, in general, it would be for the best.

[AZGrizFan]

DOD was VERY green when I was active duty....had numerous nuclear powered surface ships that NEVER had to refuel....now they're all gone but the carriers.

Care to share what they did with their garbage?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Paci ... bage_Patch

I've sailed through that garbage patch several times...it's pretty fucking gross. We saw life rings, lifeboats, trash, barrels, bottles, nets, you name it. The first time I went through it I thought a fucking ship had sunk!

But to answer your question, we always bagged and tagged, stored it in an empty compartment and offloaded it when we returned to shore.