Do we really need the F-22?

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Re: Do we really need the F-22?

Post by CID1990 »

houndawg wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Somebody should look up that old post about typical forum assclowns. The one guy who backtracks from a moment of total retardation by claiming that it was actually a carefully calculated attempt to bring someone out fits Dawg to a tee.

http://www.thepoliticallyincorrectfish.com/pif2/?p=450" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


There's some numbers for you, assface. Your buddies over at Stormfront report similar numbers. Time to switch from ad hominem to attacking the source. :lol:

Not a very good performance militarily by the good guys. :ohno:

Only 50 KLA aircraft and 13 tanks destroyed by the mightiest military machine on the planet. :oops: What is the military doing with the half-trillion per year budget we taxpayers generously provide.

Looks like we got fought to a standstill by a smarter opponent.
Complete, total fiction.

Again, I'll focus on just one number so as not to muddy the water: Which THREE B-2 bombers did we lose exactly?

Nice mainstream source you have there too, Mr. Tinfoil Hat.

And BTW- we haven't had a good military performance since World War II, and we never will again, and it has absolutely nothing to do with our technology.
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Re: Do we really need the F-22?

Post by Col Hogan »

houndawg wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Somebody should look up that old post about typical forum assclowns. The one guy who backtracks from a moment of total retardation by claiming that it was actually a carefully calculated attempt to bring someone out fits Dawg to a tee.

http://www.thepoliticallyincorrectfish.com/pif2/?p=450" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


There's some numbers for you, assface. Your buddies over at Stormfront report similar numbers. Time to switch from ad hominem to attacking the source. :lol:
ent.
OK...that's easy...that source is full of what makes the grass grow green...

The USAF purchased a grand total of 21 B-2 bombers...one crashed in 2008 taking off in Guam...

Currently, the 509th Bomb Wing, which operates the B-2, possesses 20 of the aircraft...

Let's see some simple math...

21 purchased minus one crashed equals 20...

WHERE THE HELL ARE THE 3 ALLEGEDLY SHOT DOWN OVER KOSOVO. DAWG...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_G ... B-2_Spirit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now, if that's not enough to "shoot down" your source...there's this little nugget...

Only one F-117 was shot down over Kosovo...not six as claimed by your "source"...
One F-117 has been lost in combat with the Army of Yugoslavia. On 27 March 1999, during the Kosovo War, the 3rd Battalion of the 250th Air Defence Missile Brigade under the command of Colonel Zoltán Dani,[38] downed an F-117A, callsign "Vega 31", AF serial number 82-0806, with a Yugoslav version of the Soviet Isayev S-125 'Neva' (NATO name SA-3 'Goa') anti-aircraft missile system.[39][40] According to NATO Commander Wesley Clark and other NATO generals, Yugoslav air defenses detected F-117s by operating their radars on unusually long wavelengths, making the aircraft visible to radar for brief periods. It is also possible that the aircraft was visible due to a disruption of its radar signature caused by open bomb-bay doors. This was the justification given by Colonel Dani in a 2007 interview. [41]
Parts of the downed F-117 on display in the Military Museum in Belgrade.

Reportedly, several SA-3s were launched from approximately 8 miles out, one of which detonated near the F-117A, forcing the pilot to eject. Though still classified, it is believed that the F-117 has no radar warning indicator, so the pilot's first indication of an incoming missile was likely seeing its flame. At this distance and combined speed the pilot had about six seconds to react before impact. According to an interview, Zoltán Dani kept most of his missile sites intact by frequently moving them, and had spotters looking for F-117s and other NATO aircraft. He oversaw the modification of his targeting radar to improve its detection.[40] The commanders and crews of the SAMs guessed the flight paths of earlier F-117A attacks from rare radar spottings and positioned their SAM launchers and spotters accordingly. It is believed that the SA-3 crews and spotters were able to locate and track F-117A 82-806 visually, probably with infra-red and night vision systems. He claimed that his battery shot down an F-16 as well.[40]

The F-117 pilot survived and was later rescued by U.S. Air Force Pararescue personnel. The wreckage of the F-117 was not promptly bombed, due to possible media fallout from news footage of civilians around the wreckage. The Serbs are believed to have invited Russian personnel to inspect the remains, compromising the then 25-year old US stealth technology.[42] The F-117's pilot was misidentified. While the name "Capt Ken 'Wiz' Dwelle" was painted on the canopy, it was revealed in 2007 that the pilot was actually Lt Col Dale Zelko, USAF.[43][44]

Some sources claim that a second F-117A was damaged during the same campaign, allegedly on 30 April.[45] Although the aircraft returned to base, it supposedly never flew again.[46][47]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-117_Nighthawk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'll do one more and than quit...your "source" is so easy to tear apart this is getting to be too much fun

Here's the list of EVERY B-52 lost in combat and training since the aircraft first flew in 1953...

There are NONE listed lost in, around, near, or during the Kosovo campaign...

http://www.nampows.org/B-52.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bottom line...your source is a piece of crap, dawg...try again... :coffee:
“Tolerance and Apathy are the last virtues of a dying society.” Aristotle

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
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Re: Do we really need the F-22?

Post by houndawg »

CID1990 wrote:
houndawg wrote:

http://www.thepoliticallyincorrectfish.com/pif2/?p=450" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


There's some numbers for you, assface. Your buddies over at Stormfront report similar numbers. Time to switch from ad hominem to attacking the source. :lol:

Not a very good performance militarily by the good guys. :ohno:

Only 50 KLA aircraft and 13 tanks destroyed by the mightiest military machine on the planet. :oops: What is the military doing with the half-trillion per year budget we taxpayers generously provide.

Looks like we got fought to a standstill by a smarter opponent.
Complete, total fiction.

Again, I'll focus on just one number so as not to muddy the water: Which THREE B-2 bombers did we lose exactly?

Nice mainstream source you have there too, Mr. Tinfoil Hat.

And BTW- we haven't had a good military performance since World War II, and we never will again, and it has absolutely nothing to do with our technology.
OK, my source was wrong, maybe, about aircraft numbers, which is why you're focusing there and not, say, number of tanks killed, which I have yet to hear you dispute. Perhaps you'd like to let us know what the correct number of tanks killed is, Mr. Mainstream source, since thirteen is a complete and total fiction? And btw, Ron Paul supporters don't have a lot of room to be talking about tinfoil hats.
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Re: Do we really need the F-22?

Post by houndawg »

Col Hogan wrote:
houndawg wrote:

http://www.thepoliticallyincorrectfish.com/pif2/?p=450" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


There's some numbers for you, assface. Your buddies over at Stormfront report similar numbers. Time to switch from ad hominem to attacking the source. :lol:
ent.
OK...that's easy...that source is full of what makes the grass grow green...

The USAF purchased a grand total of 21 B-2 bombers...one crashed in 2008 taking off in Guam...

Currently, the 509th Bomb Wing, which operates the B-2, possesses 20 of the aircraft...

Let's see some simple math...

21 purchased minus one crashed equals 20...

WHERE THE HELL ARE THE 3 ALLEGEDLY SHOT DOWN OVER KOSOVO. DAWG...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_G ... B-2_Spirit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now, if that's not enough to "shoot down" your source...there's this little nugget...

Only one F-117 was shot down over Kosovo...not six as claimed by your "source"...
One F-117 has been lost in combat with the Army of Yugoslavia. On 27 March 1999, during the Kosovo War, the 3rd Battalion of the 250th Air Defence Missile Brigade under the command of Colonel Zoltán Dani,[38] downed an F-117A, callsign "Vega 31", AF serial number 82-0806, with a Yugoslav version of the Soviet Isayev S-125 'Neva' (NATO name SA-3 'Goa') anti-aircraft missile system.[39][40] According to NATO Commander Wesley Clark and other NATO generals, Yugoslav air defenses detected F-117s by operating their radars on unusually long wavelengths, making the aircraft visible to radar for brief periods. It is also possible that the aircraft was visible due to a disruption of its radar signature caused by open bomb-bay doors. This was the justification given by Colonel Dani in a 2007 interview. [41]
Parts of the downed F-117 on display in the Military Museum in Belgrade.

Reportedly, several SA-3s were launched from approximately 8 miles out, one of which detonated near the F-117A, forcing the pilot to eject. Though still classified, it is believed that the F-117 has no radar warning indicator, so the pilot's first indication of an incoming missile was likely seeing its flame. At this distance and combined speed the pilot had about six seconds to react before impact. According to an interview, Zoltán Dani kept most of his missile sites intact by frequently moving them, and had spotters looking for F-117s and other NATO aircraft. He oversaw the modification of his targeting radar to improve its detection.[40] The commanders and crews of the SAMs guessed the flight paths of earlier F-117A attacks from rare radar spottings and positioned their SAM launchers and spotters accordingly. It is believed that the SA-3 crews and spotters were able to locate and track F-117A 82-806 visually, probably with infra-red and night vision systems. He claimed that his battery shot down an F-16 as well.[40]

The F-117 pilot survived and was later rescued by U.S. Air Force Pararescue personnel. The wreckage of the F-117 was not promptly bombed, due to possible media fallout from news footage of civilians around the wreckage. The Serbs are believed to have invited Russian personnel to inspect the remains, compromising the then 25-year old US stealth technology.[42] The F-117's pilot was misidentified. While the name "Capt Ken 'Wiz' Dwelle" was painted on the canopy, it was revealed in 2007 that the pilot was actually Lt Col Dale Zelko, USAF.[43][44]

Some sources claim that a second F-117A was damaged during the same campaign, allegedly on 30 April.[45] Although the aircraft returned to base, it supposedly never flew again.[46][47]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-117_Nighthawk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'll do one more and than quit...your "source" is so easy to tear apart this is getting to be too much fun

Here's the list of EVERY B-52 lost in combat and training since the aircraft first flew in 1953...

There are NONE listed lost in, around, near, or during the Kosovo campaign...

http://www.nampows.org/B-52.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bottom line...your source is a piece of crap, dawg...try again... :coffee:

Here's a funny thing colonel: my source being wrong doesn't make your source right. Hell, your numbers come from the government and every other number that comes out of their mouth is a lie, whether it be the size of the deficit, the true unemployment rate, or how many millions of gallons of oil are puking into the gulf. :ohno:
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Re: Do we really need the F-22?

Post by Col Hogan »

houndawg wrote:
Col Hogan wrote:
OK...that's easy...that source is full of what makes the grass grow green...

The USAF purchased a grand total of 21 B-2 bombers...one crashed in 2008 taking off in Guam...

Currently, the 509th Bomb Wing, which operates the B-2, possesses 20 of the aircraft...

Let's see some simple math...

21 purchased minus one crashed equals 20...

WHERE THE HELL ARE THE 3 ALLEGEDLY SHOT DOWN OVER KOSOVO. DAWG...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_G ... B-2_Spirit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now, if that's not enough to "shoot down" your source...there's this little nugget...

Only one F-117 was shot down over Kosovo...not six as claimed by your "source"...



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-117_Nighthawk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'll do one more and than quit...your "source" is so easy to tear apart this is getting to be too much fun

Here's the list of EVERY B-52 lost in combat and training since the aircraft first flew in 1953...

There are NONE listed lost in, around, near, or during the Kosovo campaign...

http://www.nampows.org/B-52.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bottom line...your source is a piece of crap, dawg...try again... :coffee:

Here's a funny thing colonel: my source being wrong doesn't make your source right. Hell, your numbers come from the government and every other number that comes out of their mouth is a lie, whether it be the size of the deficit, the true unemployment rate, or how many millions of gallons of oil are puking into the gulf. :ohno:
It is a fact that only 21 B-2s were purchased...you can find that number going back to the begining...in Congressional debate...

It is a fact that 20 remain on the ramp at Whiteman AFB in Missouri, belonging to the 509th Bomb Wing...

It is a fact that one crashed in 2008 on the island of Guam during take-off...

I challenge anyone to refute those numbers...and since 21 - 1 = 20...Your source is wrong and the government is correct...

On the F-117s...the Serbs danced in the street when they shot down ONE...they would have shouted from the highest mountain if they had shot down any more, but didn't...therefore, your contention about the government lying would seem to be...shall we say...off base...

And the B-52 source is an independent source...not government...a guy who is into the history of the B-52...

Regarding tanks...who knows...the Serbs have downplayed all loses...so who knows the exact number (other than the Serbs, and they are lying sacks of dung)...so, you just hang onto that number of 13 and keep it close to your chest...I know that makes you feel all warm inside that I can't refute it... :rofl:
“Tolerance and Apathy are the last virtues of a dying society.” Aristotle

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Re: Do we really need the F-22?

Post by houndawg »

Col Hogan wrote:
houndawg wrote:

Here's a funny thing colonel: my source being wrong doesn't make your source right. Hell, your numbers come from the government and every other number that comes out of their mouth is a lie, whether it be the size of the deficit, the true unemployment rate, or how many millions of gallons of oil are puking into the gulf. :ohno:
It is a fact that only 21 B-2s were purchased...you can find that number going back to the begining...in Congressional debate...

It is a fact that 20 remain on the ramp at Whiteman AFB in Missouri, belonging to the 509th Bomb Wing...

It is a fact that one crashed in 2008 on the island of Guam during take-off...

I challenge anyone to refute those numbers...and since 21 - 1 = 20...Your source is wrong and the government is correct...

On the F-117s...the Serbs danced in the street when they shot down ONE...they would have shouted from the highest mountain if they had shot down any more, but didn't...therefore, your contention about the government lying would seem to be...shall we say...off base...

And the B-52 source is an independent source...not government...a guy who is into the history of the B-52...

Regarding tanks...who knows...the Serbs have downplayed all loses...so who knows the exact number (other than the Serbs, and they are lying sacks of dung)...so, you just hang onto that number of 13 and keep it close to your chest...I know that makes you feel all warm inside that I can't refute it... :rofl:

:ohno: 79 days of bombing, thousands of sorties, half a trillion dollars a year........ 13 tanks and lots of microwave ovens destroyed. No colonel, doesn't make me feel warm inside at all, especially around April 15th. But it could indicate why we still can't seem to catch up to Osama bin Laden, dead or alive, lo these many years later......... :coffee:
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Re: Do we really need the F-22?

Post by mrklean »

AZGrizFan wrote:
mrklean wrote:This is why the Military should have the strictest oversight when it comes to money. IF you let the military have its way they will spend 1000.00 on a freaking toilet seat. Look at what they did in WWII. The Army Air Corps had over 10 different fighter planes and 7 different Bombers. WHY?????? This is a classic example of military irresponsibility. Fast Forward to today. The Military Battle dress uniform or BDU or ACU. Why does each branch have a different pattern??? Another example of Military bull Crap. Pick one damn pattern and stick with it. One of my favorite U.S. President IKE warned us about the Military Industrial Complex. Even he saw it coming.

I cant wait for someone to try to defend Why the Army Air Corps had so many different war planes.
You do realize, don't you that a good percentage of the crap foisted on the military they never wanted in the first place, right? Congressmen suckin' up to their constituents and ensuring the gravy train continues to their district force through programs and equipment that the military doesn't even ASK for many times....
This is why Retired Military Officer's should not be allowed to be Defense consultants. EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THis has to stop. The endless gravy train has to stop now.
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Re: Do we really need the F-22?

Post by mrklean »

houndawg wrote:
Col Hogan wrote:
It is a fact that only 21 B-2s were purchased...you can find that number going back to the begining...in Congressional debate...

It is a fact that 20 remain on the ramp at Whiteman AFB in Missouri, belonging to the 509th Bomb Wing...

It is a fact that one crashed in 2008 on the island of Guam during take-off...

I challenge anyone to refute those numbers...and since 21 - 1 = 20...Your source is wrong and the government is correct...





On the F-117s...the Serbs danced in the street when they shot down ONE...they would have shouted from the highest mountain if they had shot down any more, but didn't...therefore, your contention about the government lying would seem to be...shall we say...off base...

And the B-52 source is an independent source...not government...a guy who is into the history of the B-52...

Regarding tanks...who knows...the Serbs have downplayed all loses...so who knows the exact number (other than the Serbs, and they are lying sacks of dung)...so, you just hang onto that number of 13 and keep it close to your chest...I know that makes you feel all warm inside that I can't refute it... :rofl:

:ohno: 79 days of bombing, thousands of sorties, half a trillion dollars a year........ 13 tanks and lots of microwave ovens destroyed. No colonel, doesn't make me feel warm inside at all, especially around April 15th. But it could indicate why we still can't seem to catch up to Osama bin Laden, dead or alive, lo these many years later......... :coffee:


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Re: Do we really need the F-22?

Post by CID1990 »

Klean, you and Dawg are perfect for each other.
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Re: Do we really need the F-22?

Post by mrklean »

CID1990 wrote:Klean, you and Dawg are perfect for each other.
Let you tell the Army needs a 5 billion MACH 6 fighter that can submerge underwater and fires lasers................lol :rofl: The sad part about it, your azz would buy it!!!!!!!
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Re: Do we really need the F-22?

Post by CID1990 »

mrklean wrote:
CID1990 wrote:Klean, you and Dawg are perfect for each other.
Let you tell the Army needs a 5 billion MACH 6 fighter that can submerge underwater and fires lasers................lol :rofl: The sad part about it, your azz would buy it!!!!!!!
I'm pretty sure that was a sentence, wasn't it?
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Re: Do we really need the F-22?

Post by mrklean »

CID1990 wrote:
mrklean wrote:
Let you tell the Army needs a 5 billion MACH 6 fighter that can submerge underwater and fires lasers................lol :rofl: The sad part about it, your azz would buy it!!!!!!!
I'm pretty sure that was a sentence, wasn't it?
Yeap you would. You would be like a kid in a kandy store..............lol
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Re: Do we really need the F-22?

Post by mrklean »

I wonder hows that F-22 helping us in Afghanistan???
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Re: Do we really need the F-22?

Post by Col Hogan »

mrklean wrote:I wonder hows that F-22 helping us in Afghanistan???
The Taliban Air Force hasn't bothered the army...has it???

Then I'd say everything is working... :coffee:
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