Estate tax wtf

[From the class of 09]

So I have a friend who is a die hard donk (I’m using the term friend loosely) and he loves to tell me how Bush and the conks messed everything up when they were the majority. However I in turn say yes most of them are crooked weasels that would be arrested if they weren’t in office. But whenever I point out someone on his side who screwed up he defends them as if it was his mother. However the one thing he hasn’t been able to talk his way out of is “wtf is going on with the estate tax this year?”

Ok for those who live under a rock and don’t know here is the low down.

In 2009 everyone who died with an estate over 3.5 million paid taxes on the amount exceeding that at 45%.

In 2011 everyone who dies with an estate over 1 million will pay 55% in taxes on the amount over $1 million

Now obviously 2011 can still be changed but that’s what they said about 2010 too and guess what the current law is?

In 2010 there is no estate tax.

That’s right all those die hard donks are going to allow the lucky families of any billionaire who die this year to get all that money tax free.

Even when most conks agree that the estate tax is a good idea the donks couldn’t get something passed so the no good scum money bags would have to pay something in estate taxes.

Interesting note that 4 billionaires have died this year that I’m aware of worth about 13 billion between them.

If the government decides to try a retroactive law (not a given as they’ve wasted half the year) you can be sure there will be at least 4 expensive court cases arguing the validly of that law.

Please explain to me how the donks are any better than the conks?

[dbackjon]

You do realize that this law was passed by a REPUBLICAN CONGRESS, SIGNED BY A REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT???

[From the class of 09]

You do realize that this law was passed by a REPUBLICAN CONGRESS, SIGNED BY A REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT???

In 2001 this was created it could have been changed at any time between now and then. Like I mentioned earlier plenty of problems with the conks (no argument from me) however we are well into a donk controlled period of time and there was been plenty of time to change it. The law is crazy like that it turns out it can be changed when they get it wrong the first time (I thought the donks were all over that). The point being both parties could have fixed it, neither did. Lets kick em both out.

Remember to use your own brain and don’t follow either party line. Because no one is right all the time and if your unwilling to admit it when you got it wrong you come across as an even bigger

[dbackjon]

Democrats DID try to fix it since they took power in 2009, but it frankly wasn't a top priority.

[AZGrizFan]

The Death Tax should go away completely.

/thread.

[dbackjon]

The Death Tax should go away completely.

/thread.

Which only benefits the megarich, and hurts those whose estates fall under the normal exemptions.

[AZGrizFan]

The Death Tax should go away completely.

/thread.

Which only benefits the megarich, and hurts those whose estates fall under the normal exemptions.

Please explain to me WHY the government has ANY RIGHT to any of a rich person's money, simply because they had the audicity to DIE.

[From the class of 09]

Democrats DID try to fix it since they took power in 2009, but it frankly wasn't a top priority.

They didn't fix it is the point. I'm one of those old school types who doesn't give credit for effort You either did or you didn't. They didn't. Your right on the priorities they were more worried about legislation that will only begin to go into effect in '11 with most of it not changing till at least '14. I’m not saying the health legislation is all bad just that there was no reason to rush it like they did.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Im confused......are you saying if we kill (I mean die ) Soros, Gates, Buffet, Kerry, Kerkorian, Hilton and a few Waltons we could balance the budget?

[AZGrizFan]

Democrats DID try to fix it since they took power in 2009, but it frankly wasn't a top priority.

They didn't fix it is the point. I'm one of those old school types who doesn't give credit for effort You either did or you didn't. They didn't. Your right on the priorities they were more worried about legislation that will only begin to go into effect in '11 with most of it not changing till at least '14. I’m not saying the health legislation is all bad just that there was no reason to rush it like they did.

Sure there was. They had a supermajority and all 3 branches...it's been the donk wet dream for 30 years to have government healthcare....they knew NOW was the only time that was going to get passed in our lifetimes....and now watch a large percentage of them lose their bids for reelection.

[AZGrizFan]

Im confused......are you saying if we kill (I mean die ) Soros, Gates, Buffet, Kerry, Kerkorian, Hilton and a few Waltons we could balance the budget?

Not this year.

[From the class of 09]

Im confused......are you saying if we kill (I mean die ) Soros, Gates, Buffet, Kerry, Kerkorian, Hilton and a few Waltons we could balance the budget?

Not this year.

If they all died on 12/31/10 the government would get $0. If they died on 1/1/11 the government would get over half. Yeah it makes perfect sense

[AZGrizFan]

Not this year.

If they all died on 12/31/10 the government would get $0. If they died on 1/1/11 the government would get over half. Yeah it makes perfect sense

The Gov't has no claim to any of their money just because they die. That might be the stupidest "tax" ever invented.

[danefan]

The fact that Congress is apparently willing to allow the estate tax to revert to 2001 exemption limits is nothing short of ridiculous.

Its just amazing to me because not paying estate tax is a common goal for just about 90% of Americans that even know what the estate tax is. Which is probably only 40% of American in the first place.

I think it should go away completely, but that isn't going to happen.

Just make it a $3.5 - $5 million exemption, keep the annual gift tax exclusion adjusting with inflation and move on.

[From the class of 09]

If they all died on 12/31/10 the government would get $0. If they died on 1/1/11 the government would get over half. Yeah it makes perfect sense

The Gov't has no claim to any of their money just because they die. That might be the stupidest "tax" ever invented.

I can understand both sides of the argument but what makes absolutely no sense is to have the tax rate go from 45% to 0% to 55%. In a three year period dumb.

[Baldy]

Which only benefits the megarich, and hurts those whose estates fall under the normal exemptions.

Please explain to me WHY the government has ANY RIGHT to any of a rich person's money, simply because they had the audicity to DIE.

This!

[dbackjon]

If they all died on 12/31/10 the government would get $0. If they died on 1/1/11 the government would get over half. Yeah it makes perfect sense

The Gov't has no claim to any of their money just because they die. That might be the stupidest "tax" ever invented.

Then no one gets a step up in basis, which WILL hurt small businesses/small estates.

[GannonFan]

Which only benefits the megarich, and hurts those whose estates fall under the normal exemptions.

Please explain to me WHY the government has ANY RIGHT to any of a rich person's money, simply because they had the audicity to DIE.

I've no problem with the idea of an estate tax. Once you establish that you can and do tax people, then it's just a question of what form that tax takes on. What's the difference between taxing someone's income during life versus taxing them also at death? Either way, it's the government saying that you, as the taxpayer, must pay a certain tax. There's certainly arguments for and against estate taxes in terms of how much revenue they pull in versus how much is spent complying with them, and of course the whole idea of using estate taxes to prevent multi-generational accumulated wealth, but it's still just a tax and we, as a country, have been pretty clear that we're okay with taxes in principle.

[clenz]

Please explain to me WHY the government has ANY RIGHT to any of a rich person's money, simply because they had the audicity to DIE.

I've no problem with the idea of an estate tax. Once you establish that you can and do tax people, then it's just a question of what form that tax takes on. What's the difference between taxing someone's income during life versus taxing them also at death? Either way, it's the government saying that you, as the taxpayer, must pay a certain tax. There's certainly arguments for and against estate taxes in terms of how much revenue they pull in versus how much is spent complying with them, and of course the whole idea of using estate taxes to prevent multi-generational accumulated wealth, but it's still just a tax and we, as a country, have been pretty clear that we're okay with taxes in principle.

So....because a person had wealth while alive the government has the right to take that money too?


Just because your parent/grandparent/etc... had money and had the nerve to die, you should have your inheritance taxed like crazy?

That makes ZERO sense to me.

[GannonFan]

I've no problem with the idea of an estate tax. Once you establish that you can and do tax people, then it's just a question of what form that tax takes on. What's the difference between taxing someone's income during life versus taxing them also at death? Either way, it's the government saying that you, as the taxpayer, must pay a certain tax. There's certainly arguments for and against estate taxes in terms of how much revenue they pull in versus how much is spent complying with them, and of course the whole idea of using estate taxes to prevent multi-generational accumulated wealth, but it's still just a tax and we, as a country, have been pretty clear that we're okay with taxes in principle.

So....because a person had wealth while alive the government has the right to take that money too?


Just because your parent/grandparent/etc... had money and had the nerve to die, you should have your inheritance taxed like crazy?

That makes ZERO sense to me.

It shouldn't - the government can tax anyone right now and the amount they can tax is pretty much up to them (and the voters, obviously). The estate tax is simply another tax. Why is it any different than being taxed because you had income, or because you own property, or because you buy a TV, or because you use a cell-phone, etc. It's not any different than any one of hundreds of taxes we pay everyday.

[clenz]

So....because a person had wealth while alive the government has the right to take that money too?


Just because your parent/grandparent/etc... had money and had the nerve to die, you should have your inheritance taxed like crazy?

That makes ZERO sense to me.

It shouldn't - the government can tax anyone right now and the amount they can tax is pretty much up to them (and the voters, obviously). The estate tax is simply another tax. Why is it any different than being taxed because you had income, or because you own property, or because you buy a TV, or because you use a cell-phone, etc. It's not any different than any one of hundreds of taxes we pay everyday.

It doesn't involve buying anything, using anything, consuming anything, etc... It involves a person dieing. I don't see why that should be taxed.

If the government can tax anything, I think they start start taxing air. Everyone is required to be check for lung capacity and taxed for every breath they take.

[houndawg]

The vast majority of Americans couldn't care less about the estate tax.

[GannonFan]

It shouldn't - the government can tax anyone right now and the amount they can tax is pretty much up to them (and the voters, obviously). The estate tax is simply another tax. Why is it any different than being taxed because you had income, or because you own property, or because you buy a TV, or because you use a cell-phone, etc. It's not any different than any one of hundreds of taxes we pay everyday.

It doesn't involve buying anything, using anything, consuming anything, etc... It involves a person dieing. I don't see why that should be taxed.

If the government can tax anything, I think they start start taxing air. Everyone is required to be check for lung capacity and taxed for every breath they take.

I can sit in my house and not do anything all year, but I still need to pay tax on having the property just merely for the fact that it exists where it does. I think it's fine to argue whether an estate tax is the best place to have the tax and if it accomplishes more than it hinders, but the argument of whether your wealth should be taxed at the point of your death isn't really a great one - it's well established that the government can levy taxes, so it doesn't matter where and when they do it, outside of again the argument of what's the best time(s) to tax.

[GannonFan]

If the government can tax anything, I think they start start taxing air. Everyone is required to be check for lung capacity and taxed for every breath they take.

Well, in many places there's a per capita tax, which is essentially just being taxed for being. Almost the same thing.

[LeadBolt]

I'm intrigued by the statement that a retroactive tax could be imposed for 2010 to tax those who died during the time there was no estate tax. How can you retroactively tax a dead person?