Federal Workers Snouts Bury Deeper Into Our Pockets

[TheDancinMonarch]

The people "helping" the "customers" at the SS office do not change when an Administration changes. You know, the Hatch Act, the theoretical non-political Civil Service.

Sure.

I'd prefer you not lump me in with a Social Security help desk. What I do is so far removed from that kind of mundane **** that I'm extremely grateful. Customer service pretty much has to suck wherever you work I'd think, hence their shitty attitudes in general, from the SSA to AT&T. Did you read my story in another thread many moon ago about the AT&T guy that called me back to hang up on me?

No insult intended . But now I know you should be exhausted after a day of toiling in the federal vineyard and my bed is calling to me so I must bid you a fond "Have a Nice Day"! All 22H22M of it.

[CID1990]

After 17 years as a cop, I was only managing about 50K a year gross. I got out. Just not enough money for the hypertension that was developing.

Now, I make more money than I did, but I saw somewhere that the average Federal employee is making something like 120K a year. Where the hell is that? I'm nowhere close.

BUT- just last week I confirmed fraud in about 12 immigrant visa cases. That's 12 people who will not go to the US illegally, and who will not be tapping into US tax dollars for healthcare, schooling, etc. For each one of those people, there are at least another 20 who would have derived an immigration benefit from the original immigrants.

I figure I earned what I do make.

93... I don't know how they do it over at DoD, but TSP at State is meant to make up just 1/3 of retirement. They call it something like a 'tripod' or 'triple-legged' system or something like that. The other two thirds are supposed to come from Social Security and the actual retirement annuity. Based on current math, my retirement will be something like 75%-ish of my top average. But, those calculations do not allow for what will likely be a greatly diminished SS payment, and who knows what the market is going to do to TSP over the next 15-20 years.

My police retirement was actually a little better in theory (although it would have been based on a percentage of a crap wage... basically if I worked for 25 years, my annuity from police retirement alone would have been 75% of my top three average; not dependent on the markets or Social Security. So basically, the local police retirement is actually a better deal in terms of stability, but not in terms of actual payout.

[93henfan]

After 17 years as a cop, I was only managing about 50K a year gross. I got out. Just not enough money for the hypertension that was developing.

Now, I make more money than I did, but I saw somewhere that the average Federal employee is making something like 120K a year. Where the hell is that? I'm nowhere close.

BUT- just last week I confirmed fraud in about 12 immigrant visa cases. That's 12 people who will not go to the US illegally, and who will not be tapping into US tax dollars for healthcare, schooling, etc. For each one of those people, there are at least another 20 who would have derived an immigration benefit from the original immigrants.

I figure I earned what I do make.

93... I don't know how they do it over at DoD, but TSP at State is meant to make up just 1/3 of retirement. They call it something like a 'tripod' or 'triple-legged' system or something like that. The other two thirds are supposed to come from Social Security and the actual retirement annuity. Based on current math, my retirement will be something like 75%-ish of my top average. But, those calculations do not allow for what will likely be a greatly diminished SS payment, and who knows what the market is going to do to TSP over the next 15-20 years.

My police retirement was actually a little better in theory (although it would have been based on a percentage of a crap wage... basically if I worked for 25 years, my annuity from police retirement alone would have been 75% of my top three average; not dependent on the markets or Social Security. So basically, the local police retirement is actually a better deal in terms of stability, but not in terms of actual payout.

CID, that 120K average figure includes benefits. The average salary is 71K, but no one realizes that after they see 120K and their anti-government blood starts boiling.

You are dead on with how the retirement works. It's the same for DoD. TSP + SS + annuity. I'm not sure where you're getting the 75% figure though. Is that what you calculate for your annuity or for all three elements combined? The annuity for FERS is calculated by multiplying average salary of your top three earning years times years of service times 1%. So say you retired making $100K after 30 years. Your retirement would be 100 x 30 x 1% or $30K/yr (i.e. 30% of your final salary). It's not like we're going to be yachting in Barbados when we retire.

[BDKJMU]

The annuity for FERS is calculated by multiplying average salary of your top three earning years times years of service times 1%. So say you retired making $100K after 30 years. Your retirement would be 100 x 30 x 1% or $30K/yr (i.e. 30% of your final salary).

Fed law enforcement under FERS gets 1.7% for the 1st 20 yrs, then 1% every yr after. Non law enforcement doesn't get that 1.7%?

[93henfan]

The annuity for FERS is calculated by multiplying average salary of your top three earning years times years of service times 1%. So say you retired making $100K after 30 years. Your retirement would be 100 x 30 x 1% or $30K/yr (i.e. 30% of your final salary).

Fed law enforcement under FERS gets 1.7% for the 1st 20 yrs, then 1% every yr after. Non law enforcement doesn't get that 1.7%?

Link me to what you're talking about. I've never heard of it.

EDIT: OK, I looked it up and found what you're talking about. Yes, the high risk/short longevity special group including law enforcement and firefighters retirement is calculated per the formula you stated. No, the rest us not in that special group do not have our retirement calculated that way. See my post for our formula.

I really hope you're not begrudging firefighters and cops getting 34% of their pay if they retire at 20 years. The anti-government sentiment carrying over to common working people continues to baffle me.

[BDKJMU]

Fed law enforcement under FERS gets 1.7% for the 1st 20 yrs, then 1% every yr after. Non law enforcement doesn't get that 1.7%?

Link me to what you're talking about. I've never heard of it.

EDIT: OK, I looked it up and found what you're talking about. Yes, the high risk/short longevity special group including law enforcement and firefighters retirement is calculated per the formula you stated. No, the rest us not in that special group do not have our retirement calculated that way. See my post for our formula.

I really hope you're not begrudging firefighters and cops getting 34% of their pay if they retire at 20 years. The anti-government sentiment carrying over to common working people continues to baffle me.

Not at all for 99.9% of them, just the double dippers (Secret Service who started pre FERS (pre 1984?) under the DC Civil Service retirement system, retired from the SS, and now working for another Fed agency drawing a full salary (high GS or SES) and getting their full SS pension. 200k and up.

[BDKJMU]

After 17 years as a cop, I was only managing about 50K a year gross. I got out. Just not enough money for the hypertension that was developing.

Now, I make more money than I did, but I saw somewhere that the average Federal employee is making something like 120K a year. Where the hell is that? I'm nowhere close.

BUT- just last week I confirmed fraud in about 12 immigrant visa cases. That's 12 people who will not go to the US illegally, and who will not be tapping into US tax dollars for healthcare, schooling, etc. For each one of those people, there are at least another 20 who would have derived an immigration benefit from the original immigrants.

I figure I earned what I do make.

93... I don't know how they do it over at DoD, but TSP at State is meant to make up just 1/3 of retirement. They call it something like a 'tripod' or 'triple-legged' system or something like that. The other two thirds are supposed to come from Social Security and the actual retirement annuity. Based on current math, my retirement will be something like 75%-ish of my top average. But, those calculations do not allow for what will likely be a greatly diminished SS payment, and who knows what the market is going to do to TSP over the next 15-20 years.

My police retirement was actually a little better in theory (although it would have been based on a percentage of a crap wage... basically if I worked for 25 years, my annuity from police retirement alone would have been 75% of my top three average; not dependent on the markets or Social Security. So basically, the local police retirement is actually a better deal in terms of stability, but not in terms of actual payout.

CID, that 120K average figure includes benefits. The average salary is 71K, but no one realizes that after they see 120K and their anti-government blood starts boiling.

You are dead on with how the retirement works. It's the same for DoD. TSP + SS + annuity. I'm not sure where you're getting the 75% figure though. Is that what you calculate for your annuity or for all three elements combined? The annuity for FERS is calculated by multiplying average salary of your top three earning years times years of service times 1%. So say you retired making $100K after 30 years. Your retirement would be 100 x 30 x 1% or $30K/yr (i.e. 30% of your final salary). It's not like we're going to be yachting in Barbados when we retire.

Granted 1% a year sucks, but Fed you're getting that pension/annuity AND your TSP with agency matching up to 5% (for the folks who don't know the govt TSP is basically the same thing as a 401k.

Most of the private sector gets EITHER a pension (not many still do) OR a 401k with several % to 5% matching. I doubt much of the private sector gets both.

Also granted there are some local & state employees (esp northeast & left coast) that make generally as much or in some cases more than their fed counterparts with better retirement pensions, but they are all going broke (like NJ and CA).

[93henfan]

Link me to what you're talking about. I've never heard of it.

EDIT: OK, I looked it up and found what you're talking about. Yes, the high risk/short longevity special group including law enforcement and firefighters retirement is calculated per the formula you stated. No, the rest us not in that special group do not have our retirement calculated that way. See my post for our formula.

I really hope you're not begrudging firefighters and cops getting 34% of their pay if they retire at 20 years. The anti-government sentiment carrying over to common working people continues to baffle me.

Not at all for 99.9% of them, just the double dippers (Secret Service who started pre FERS (pre 1984?) under the DC Civil Service retirement system, retired from the SS, and now working for another Fed agency drawing a full salary (high GS or SES) and getting their full SS pension. 200k and up.

They're playing by the rules. Do you expect every guy that retired from the military after 20 years to not seek full-time employment either? Pssst, there are a bunch of those on this board, including at least one active in this thread.

[BDKJMU]

Not at all for 99.9% of them, just the double dippers (Secret Service who started pre FERS (pre 1984?) under the DC Civil Service retirement system, retired from the SS, and now working for another Fed agency drawing a full salary (high GS or SES) and getting their full SS pension. 200k and up.

They're playing by the rules. Do you expect every guy that retired from the military after 20 years to not seek full-time employment either? Pssst, there are a bunch of those on this board, including at least one active in this thread. You may also like to know that federal employees prior to FERS (1987, btw) did not pay into and cannot draw social security, unless they took a later job where they did pay into it. They obviously would draw a much reduced benefit due to the nonpayment from their prior career under CSRS.

Military I look at differently (is their retirement percentage based off just their base?) as 99.9% of them outside of retired generals probably aren't drawing near what a retired 20-25 yr SS is.

Didn't know that about the CSRS and social security. But the Secret Service Guys pre FERS weren't under CSRS. This article from 2003 explains it:

"....But federal personnel officials tell INSIGHT the mandatory service and age-limit requirements affecting all other law-enforcement personnel often are not applied to recent Secret Service retirees.

Those favored by such practices are the Secret Service agents who, until 1983, were brought on to federal service under what commonly is called the Washington (D.C.) Metropolitan Police Retirement Plan. The obscure section of the code governing police and firefighter retirements and disability allows Secret Service retirees to collect full benefits for federal service under the District of Columbia retirement system while holding other federal government jobs at full salary.

All other federal employees, whose retirement benefits are covered by a separate system, are prohibited from receiving both a full salary and full retirement benefits at the same time. "Nobody seems to know how such a hiring violation and exception went unnoticed," says a whistle-blower at the Social Security Administration (SSA). "Whether there has been deception, ignorance, nepotism or some sort of conspiracy to gain control of the inspectors-general offices, as well as OPM's Office of Investigations and their sister agency at the General Accounting Office" is a matter of conjecture.

The SSA source adds, "Secret Service agents who are retired under the D.C. plan and employed with an Office of Inspector General [OIG] are generally in the position to make the current hiring decisions of many Offices of Inspectors General/Offices of Investigations, to hire their retired brethren without scrutiny by OPM." Echoing complaints received by INSIGHT from other federal agents, he says: "Nepotism is the rule as the retired Secret Service agents, regardless of their age, are members of the good-old-boy network and are virtually guaranteed to be hired.

Under the rules governing the D.C. plan, a Secret Service agent may retire at any age if he or she certifies that at least 50 percent of his or her service was protection duty (the guarding of people and installations), rather than white-collar fraud or other investigative tasks. The IG offices, experts in the federal service point out, are tasked with dealing largely with white-collar fraud. "If an agent has spent the last 10 years in protection," says former Secret Service agent Myron Smith, now with the OIG at the General Services Administration, "he or she is rusty at best and straight out incompetent at worst" in conducting white-collar investigations. And Smith agrees that, "Once one of the Secret Service retirees gets a big-time slot [In one of the OIGs] their buddies are going to follow. They joke about it in the Service."

Nonetheless, some of these retired Secret Service agents have become the highest-paid law-enforcement officers in the nation while working jobs that rarely cause them to labor overtime and hardly ever put them in any physical danger, critics say. "These [retired Secret Service] agents are milking the Civil Service System, earning annual compensation packages of between $175,000 and $210,000 annually for working five days a week from nine to five [no nights or weekends] on personnel-related investigations that have little or no criminal, civil or administrative significance," fumes one federal investigator who contacted INSIGHT. "We are wasting tens of millions of dollars worth of critical human resources that could be redirected to the FBI to combat crucial and legitimate law-enforcement crises that threaten the health and safety of every American."

According to Bob Seldon, a Washington lawyer with many clients in the IG community, "Anyone classified as a special agent already gets 25 percent over base pay, plus full retirement benefits when they turn 50, which is higher than other civil servants. In a time of war it's an outrage that many of the senior managers in the IG community who are already paid six-figure salaries for those jobs are also drawing full pensions from the Secret Service, not to mention receiving bonuses for serving in law enforcement."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... 1826/pg_3/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And that 175-210k figure given was 7 years ago. Meaning by now they are likely all over 200k. More articles like that if you do a web search under Secret Service, double dippers. Again, this is is a loophole that isn't there for 99.9+% of fed employees.

[AZGrizFan]

I have no problem with double dippers. As 93 said, they're playing by the rules. (and I hope it wasn't ME you were talking about 93...I retired from the reserves, so can't collect a pension until I'm 60).

[93henfan]

I have no problem with double dippers. As 93 said, they're playing by the rules. (and I hope it wasn't ME you were talking about 93...I retired from the reserves, so can't collect a pension until I'm 60).

Nope, wasn't talking about you. What are you going to do with a reserve pension anyway? Use the checks to wipe off your marble sinks and gold shower curtain, you out of touch bastard?

[AZGrizFan]

I have no problem with double dippers. As 93 said, they're playing by the rules. (and I hope it wasn't ME you were talking about 93...I retired from the reserves, so can't collect a pension until I'm 60).

Nope, wasn't talking about you. What are you going to do with a reserve pension anyway? Use the checks to wipe off your marble sinks and gold shower curtain, you out of touch bastard?

By the time I'm eligible to collect them (assuming I live that long) they'll be able to buy a loaf of bread.

[CID1990]

After 17 years as a cop, I was only managing about 50K a year gross. I got out. Just not enough money for the hypertension that was developing.

Now, I make more money than I did, but I saw somewhere that the average Federal employee is making something like 120K a year. Where the hell is that? I'm nowhere close.

BUT- just last week I confirmed fraud in about 12 immigrant visa cases. That's 12 people who will not go to the US illegally, and who will not be tapping into US tax dollars for healthcare, schooling, etc. For each one of those people, there are at least another 20 who would have derived an immigration benefit from the original immigrants.

I figure I earned what I do make.

93... I don't know how they do it over at DoD, but TSP at State is meant to make up just 1/3 of retirement. They call it something like a 'tripod' or 'triple-legged' system or something like that. The other two thirds are supposed to come from Social Security and the actual retirement annuity. Based on current math, my retirement will be something like 75%-ish of my top average. But, those calculations do not allow for what will likely be a greatly diminished SS payment, and who knows what the market is going to do to TSP over the next 15-20 years.

My police retirement was actually a little better in theory (although it would have been based on a percentage of a crap wage... basically if I worked for 25 years, my annuity from police retirement alone would have been 75% of my top three average; not dependent on the markets or Social Security. So basically, the local police retirement is actually a better deal in terms of stability, but not in terms of actual payout.

CID, that 120K average figure includes benefits. The average salary is 71K, but no one realizes that after they see 120K and their anti-government blood starts boiling.

You are dead on with how the retirement works. It's the same for DoD. TSP + SS + annuity. I'm not sure where you're getting the 75% figure though. Is that what you calculate for your annuity or for all three elements combined? The annuity for FERS is calculated by multiplying average salary of your top three earning years times years of service times 1%. So say you retired making $100K after 30 years. Your retirement would be 100 x 30 x 1% or $30K/yr (i.e. 30% of your final salary). It's not like we're going to be yachting in Barbados when we retire.

93 sorry it took so long to respond but this thread nosedived and I forgot to come back and check it.

I was talking about all three elements combined.

I'll tell you this... what I make at DoS is about enough to have me doing a 2 hour commute to work because I have to live somewhere like halfway to Winchester just one step out of public housing. Plus, at State we don't get VHA like the military, so lots of FSOs actually have to live in some pretty small apartments when they are assigned to DC.

That's one reason that I am staying away from DC and in the third world unless they threaten to fire me if I don't come back in.

[JohnStOnge]

It does hit close to home for me, because the majority of my organization (some very cutting edge electrical engineers and some very talented business folks) could walk out the door for more money in the private sector.

I am very skeptical about that. I have been very closely associated with the Federal government and it's employees for many years now and I think that it is unlikely that the overwhelming majority of them could make in private industry what they make as federal government employees.

I'll admit that I don't know anybody in the Department of Defense. Maybe it's some kind of shining light agency filled with incredibly talented people so the situation there is different than it is with the Federal agencies I am familiar with. But I"m skeptical about that. I'm very skeptical about the idea that the MAJORITY of civilian employees in the Department of Defense could leave their jobs for higher paying jobs in the private sector.

[TheDancinMonarch]

It does hit close to home for me, because the majority of my organization (some very cutting edge electrical engineers and some very talented business folks) could walk out the door for more money in the private sector.

I am very skeptical about that. I have been very closely associated with the Federal government and it's employees for many years now and I think that it is unlikely that the overwhelming majority of them could make in private industry what they make as federal government employees.

I'll admit that I don't know anybody in the Department of Defense. Maybe it's some kind of shining light agency filled with incredibly talented people so the situation there is different than it is with the Federal agencies I am familiar with. But I"m skeptical about that. I'm very skeptical about the idea that the MAJORITY of civilian employees in the Department of Defense could leave their jobs for higher paying jobs in the private sector.

Remain skeptical. You are on very safe ground. Where else can you go in late, take a long lunch and leave early and still keep your job along with an annual bonus. "Working" for the government really does pay.