National Review article about tax code

[AZGrizFan]

STOP!!! Seriously.....you, OF ALL PEOPLE, are now going to get all high and **** mighty about someone ELSE calling someone names and slinging vulgar insults? You? The **** KING of vulgar insults and name calling?

That is **** priceless. Truly. You've outdone even YOURSELF on this one, dawg.

For a minute there I thought nobody cared.

Many thanks, it's always good to have the respect of your peers.

I care. Deeply.

[Grizalltheway]

JESUS some of you guys are high strung. All I was trying to do with that post was point out that the things that conks are suddenly up in arms about have been going on for YEARS, not just since 1-20-09. The darkie comment was simply intended as bait, and it was clearly effective.

Let the backpeddling begin...

Whatever makes you feel better, Z.

[AZGrizFan]

Let the backpedaling begin...

Whatever makes you feel better, Z.

'salright, G. You came across as a racist, you got called on it...you started backpedaling. No problem. Shit like that happens with youth.

[Grizalltheway]

Whatever makes you feel better, Z.

'salright, G. You came across as a racist, you got called on it...you started backpedaling. No problem. Shit like that happens with youth.

How was I being racist? Are you claiming that NONE of the teabaggers are racially motivated in their actions, and that their numbers haven't grown exponentially since a Democrat took office?

[HI54UNI]

Absolutely.

Of course, if there were enough jobs to go around, 'Z-bag and Badly would be the first to complain about rising wages.

And don't forget the need to cut education spending and keep the $ out of the hands of those greedy teacher's unions.

Nothing spells economic recovery and the end to welfare like poorly educated low wage earners.

As a school board member I can tell you we've been spending more and more money on education and we're going backwards. More money is not the solution.

[kalm]

And don't forget the need to cut education spending and keep the $ out of the hands of those greedy teacher's unions.

Nothing spells economic recovery and the end to welfare like poorly educated low wage earners.

As a school board member I can tell you we've been spending more and more money on education and we're going backwards. More money is not the solution.

I was being semi sarcastic and you could be right. But I think it varies from district to district. And we all know the story that the highest per/student spending occurrs in the poorest districts, so much of the problem, I think, is socio-economics and parenting - or lack there of.

BTW, kudo's for being active and serving on your school board.

[Skjellyfetti]

As a school board member I can tell you we've been spending more and more money on education and we're going backwards. More money is not the solution.

What is the solution?

[death dealer]

'salright, G. You came across as a racist, you got called on it...you started backpedaling. No problem. Shit like that happens with youth.

How was I being racist? Are you claiming that NONE of the teabaggers are racially motivated in their actions, and that their numbers haven't grown exponentially since a Democrat took office?

Of course some of the teabaggers are racially motivated. Obama himself is racially motivated. We are all racially motivated in some of our actions, whether we are willing to admit it or not has much to do with how deeply our ability to self delude is imbedded in our psyche.

But what the hell does some teabagger's racial motivation or lack thereof have to do whatsoever with this article and this thread? You guys need to stop using that tactic. It weakens your argument with those of us who have a legitimate gripe with the govt. (and I include all federal govt. officials in that statement. No party gets a break in my book. Obama just happens to be the ring leader running the show at the moment.)

[OL FU]

As a school board member I can tell you we've been spending more and more money on education and we're going backwards. More money is not the solution.

What is the solution?

Man I wish I knew. I would suppose you would get all the answers that are discussed but not certain from competition among schools and teachers to extending the school year and so on.

Personally, I think much of it has to do with home life but I hate to make that generalization.

but I think we all know money alone is not the issue.

[CID1990]

Steyn made a short mention of European countries (I think he mentioned Germany specifically, but you can place all the Scandinavian countries in that same bag....) relying on the defense spending of the US so that they could afford their lavish social spending programs. I have said exactly the same thing on here before in an argument with someone (I can't remember who, but I'd give even odds it was Jon or SK) who insisted that countries like Norway and Sweden have such wonderful standards of living.

If we pull back and stop carry the entire load in NATO, how long will it be before Sweden and Germany have to start building tanks to deter Vladimir and the New Soviet Republic? How long will their ridiculously posh welfare programs last without America to stand behind them like a big brother in the playground?

[dbackjon]

Steyn made a short mention of European countries (I think he mentioned Germany specifically, but you can place all the Scandinavian countries in that same bag....) relying on the defense spending of the US so that they could afford their lavish social spending programs. I have said exactly the same thing on here before in an argument with someone (I can't remember who, but I'd give even odds it was Jon or SK) who insisted that countries like Norway and Sweden have such wonderful standards of living.

If we pull back and stop carry the entire load in NATO, how long will it be before Sweden and Germany have to start building tanks to deter Vladimir and the New Soviet Republic? How long will their ridiculously posh welfare programs last without America to stand behind them like a big brother in the playground?

They do have a high standard of living, and I have long advocated shifting some of the load back to Europe.

[OL FU]

Steyn made a short mention of European countries (I think he mentioned Germany specifically, but you can place all the Scandinavian countries in that same bag....) relying on the defense spending of the US so that they could afford their lavish social spending programs. I have said exactly the same thing on here before in an argument with someone (I can't remember who, but I'd give even odds it was Jon or SK) who insisted that countries like Norway and Sweden have such wonderful standards of living.

If we pull back and stop carry the entire load in NATO, how long will it be before Sweden and Germany have to start building tanks to deter Vladimir and the New Soviet Republic? How long will their ridiculously posh welfare programs last without America to stand behind them like a big brother in the playground?

They do have a high standard of living, and I have long advocated shifting some of the load back to Europe.

Not only could we reduce the deficit by spending less on the military, we could take a different approach.

Hey you Euro boys, we got some tanks and missles and other shit to sell ya.

[Ibanez]

And don't forget the need to cut education spending and keep the $ out of the hands of those greedy teacher's unions.

Nothing spells economic recovery and the end to welfare like poorly educated low wage earners.

As a school board member I can tell you we've been spending more and more money on education and we're going backwards. More money is not the solution.

You're right. You can have the largest budget but unless parents become parents, teach responsibility among other things, than Children will continue to drop out. We make it too easy to get by on the taxpayers dime.

[Skjellyfetti]

You're right. You can have the largest budget but unless parents become parents, teach responsibility among other things, than Children will continue to drop out. We make it too easy to get by on the taxpayers dime.

It's easy to point out what's wrong... but, what's your solution?

Do we just sit back and say "oh, well... it's the fault of bad parenting... nothing we can do about it." While our nation turns into uneducated dumbasses? I don't think so...

[Ibanez]

You want to save money, cut the following programs:

F22 Fighter Jet: It hasn't been used in OIF or OEF. Current fighter jets are better to fight Russia and China(if need be) that the F22.

End the Virginia class sub. It's not needed due to a battle of the navies isn't likely and current ships can do the same job.

I'm sure there are more but those two could save close to if not more than $10billion annually.

[Skjellyfetti]

You want to save money, cut the following programs:

F22 Fighter Jet: It hasn't been used in OIF or OEF. Current fighter jets are better to fight Russia and China(if need be) that the F22.

Done.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/29/busin ... l?_r=2&hpw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Ibanez]

You're right. You can have the largest budget but unless parents become parents, teach responsibility among other things, than Children will continue to drop out. We make it too easy to get by on the taxpayers dime.

It's easy to point out what's wrong... but, what's your solution?

Do we just sit back and say "oh, well... it's the fault of bad parenting... nothing we can do about it." While our nation turns into uneducated dumbasses? I don't think so...

What's your solution? Don't criticize my opinion without offering up a solution. How do you you propose we get parents to teach thier children, care for them and cultivate productive members of society?

[Ibanez]

You want to save money, cut the following programs:

F22 Fighter Jet: It hasn't been used in OIF or OEF. Current fighter jets are better to fight Russia and China(if need be) that the F22.

Done.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/29/busin ... l?_r=2&hpw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, make competition in the contracting world easier. How come I can't buy a $44 ink cartrdige from HP? No, i have to go through another company and pay $178.99 for the same cartridge.

[Skjellyfetti]

What's your solution? Don't criticize my opinion without offering up a solution.

Isn't that what you just did? You still haven't given me YOUR solution yet. Nice deflection, though.

How do you you propose we get parents to teach thier children, care for them and cultivate productive members of society?

We can't.

Which is why I support funding schools to the max, encouraging bright and motivated college grads to enter teaching field, extra-curricular activities, reform No Child Left Behind-- support failing school disctricts-- don't punish them, etc. Yup, all this will cost more... but, we need to spend it and we should. We don't spend nearly as much PER CAPITA on education as most of the leading countries.


Still waiting for your solution to the education problem that involves cutting education expenses. Though, you'll just ignore it I'm sure.

[OL FU]

What's your solution? Don't criticize my opinion without offering up a solution.

Isn't that what you just did? You still haven't given me YOUR solution yet. Nice deflection, though.

How do you you propose we get parents to teach thier children, care for them and cultivate productive members of society?

We can't.

Which is why I support funding schools to the max, encouraging bright and motivated college grads to enter teaching field, extra-curricular activities, reform No Child Left Behind-- support failing school disctricts-- don't punish them, etc. Yup, all this will cost more... but, we need to spend it and we should. We don't spend nearly as much PER CAPITA on education as most of the leading countries.


Still waiting for your solution to the education problem that involves cutting education expenses. Though, you'll just ignore it I'm sure.

I don't really oppose spending more on schools as long as there were specific goals and directives to acheive the goals and certainly not just handing more money over to continue the status quo. but since this thread is about taxes, isn't the real issue (as many have identified here) that we really simply don't have the money to pay for all the items on everybody's checklist. Certainly we could spend more money on schools, but we just pass a new health care bill, we have social security and medicare issues, we have states that are imploding, etc. No matter how you run the numbers there is no way to tax ourselves out of this problem without creating a huge economic problem. It always sounds good when issues are looked at one at a time. Oh we need money for schools, yes. Cancer research could certain stand some more money, yes. We need to cover more people with health insurance, certainly. WE need abigger better airplane to fly higher and faster to get more information on those damn terrorist, yes. But when you look at it all together, the numbers just don't add up anymore.

[Skjellyfetti]

And your solution is.... what?

Don't do anything and hope it works itself out?

[OL FU]

And your solution is.... what?

Don't do anything and hope it works itself out?

Were you speaking to me?

[Skjellyfetti]

Were you speaking to me?

You, Ibanez, and anyone who thinks we spend too much on education, think it should be cut, think we can't afford it, etc.

Do we just do nothing and hope it improves on its own?

[OL FU]

Were you speaking to me?

You, Ibanez, and anyone who thinks we spend too much on education, think it should be cut, think we can't afford it, etc.

Do we just do nothing and hope it improves on its own?

Let me explain something to you. I, unlike most everyone else, don't consider myself an expert on every single subject and this is one of those subjects. I have a good fundmental understanding of economics as long as it doesn't get to esoteric. Have well thought out views ( at least I think so) on how the constitution should be interpreted. And have firm convictions on why the rights of individuals should, in most cases, be foremost above the collective good (within reason of course) . But as far as how to educate a bunch dirtly little rag-a-muggins. I'll pass.

But it is like I said and since I do think I have at least that rudimentary understanding of economics especially cost benefit, I would like to know before we sink more money into education (1) from where it is going to come and what we are going to do about they fact that we don't have it to spend and (2) is it reasonable to expect that the results will be different than the other money we have spent on education recently.

Now, since I have disclosed the fact that I am not all knowing you will have to excuse me for a while. This thread reminds me that I I have to prepare my tax returns.

[HI54UNI]

As a school board member I can tell you we've been spending more and more money on education and we're going backwards. More money is not the solution.

What is the solution?

Focusing on education. Making sure we have good teachers that give a damn in the classroom. Get rid of the poor teachers. Stop worrying about the latest trend or newest technology. Use the money we are wasting on trends and use it to pay teachers better. Reduce some of the bureaucracy and paperwork so we can reduce administrators to free up money. Have school board members that give a shit about kids instead of trying to advance their own agendas.

A few years ago our board started a program to work on improving test scores. Our contract with our school supt. says if we don't improve we are starting by showing him the door. We increased training for teachers, we use team teaching in certain scenarios so new teachers are paired with experienced teachers, and we use test scores to determine training for teachers and for evaluating teachers. We started with an enhanced focus on reading. If someone can't read how can they do other subjects?

The Iowa Assoc of School Boards has done a lot of research on this and we used their data to develop our program. As OL FU noted home life plays a role but the data indicates that good teaching can overcome bad parenting. Their studies also show a correlation with shitty teachers. One example I remember, there was a school in Texas where the average reading proficiency score in 3rd grade were 75 (I'm making the number up because I don't remember it exactly but the general point is here). 4th grade was 80, 5th grade was 65, 6th grade was 75. They couldn't figure out why the scores were always dropping in 5th grade. They looked at all the info and it came back to a teacher. They got rid of the teacher and they lost the drop in 5th grade. Another example is a school in Milwaukee where they've implemented something similar to what we have. They call it the three 90s school. 90% of the kids live in poverty, 90% are minorities, but 90% can read at the appropriate grade level.

We've had good buy in from our staff. We haven't had to fire anyone. Fortunately most of our teachers still care. Our elementary teachers and elementary principal are beyond awesome with how they are approaching this. 40% of our elementary students qualify for free or reduced price lunches so we have our poverty/shitty home life issues yet we are now scoring in the top 10% of all schools in the state. Our state dept. of education nominated our elementary school for a National Blue Ribbon School award from the federal dept of education because of our scores combined with our poverty rate. in 2008 we were one of 320 schools nationally to receive the award.

It's not easy but with the right approach it can be done.