Would Stricter Gun Control Laws Prevent Shootings?

[houndawg]

That's kind of what I was getting at before. How many stories have we heard of gunmen being thwarted or lives being saved by innocent bystanders who happened to be carrying. (Other than convenience store owners - don't mess with those motherfuckers). Perhaps the answer is eveyone needs to be armed just like in the old west.

I don't think those stories get the heat they should and maybe we just don't hear em' as often. Did you read the pages and pages of stories on Armed Citizen? I think those are all the local type stories combined into one place so they are out there if you want to read them.

Stray bullets don't seem to be nearly the danger in these situations that the actual criminal trying to do damage is. I'd have no problem with everyone being armed like the old west.

In this particular case the dude rushed the stage so he was surrounded by people, I'm not sure reaction times would have been any faster if the crowd was armed, could be that the way they did take him was the safest.

As for the everyone armed thing, when I was in Alaska there was a saloon outside of Fairbanks where the first thing you saw upon entering was a sign telling you to check guns and knives with the bartender. Lots of rednecks and longhairs and open 24/7 in the summer. Politest bunch of rednecks and longhairs you ever saw. I don't think that necessarily translates to the lower 48 though. Too many pencil necks would be lucky to get through the day without shooting their dick off.

[kalm]

I don't think those stories get the heat they should and maybe we just don't hear em' as often. Did you read the pages and pages of stories on Armed Citizen? I think those are all the local type stories combined into one place so they are out there if you want to read them.

Stray bullets don't seem to be nearly the danger in these situations that the actual criminal trying to do damage is. I'd have no problem with everyone being armed like the old west.

In this particular case the dude rushed the stage so he was surrounded by people, I'm not sure reaction times would have been any faster if the crowd was armed, could be that the way they did take him was the safest.

You can also make the case that he wouldn't even try if everyone was armed.
As for the everyone armed thing, when I was in Alaska there was a saloon outside of Fairbanks where the first thing you saw upon entering was a sign telling you to check guns and knives with the bartender. Lots of rednecks and longhairs and open 24/7 in the summer. Politest bunch of rednecks and longhairs you ever saw. I don't think that necessarily translates to the lower 48 though. Too many pencil necks would be lucky to get through the day without shooting their dick off.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

I don't think those stories get the heat they should and maybe we just don't hear em' as often. Did you read the pages and pages of stories on Armed Citizen? I think those are all the local type stories combined into one place so they are out there if you want to read them.

Stray bullets don't seem to be nearly the danger in these situations that the actual criminal trying to do damage is. I'd have no problem with everyone being armed like the old west.

In this particular case the dude rushed the stage so he was surrounded by people, I'm not sure reaction times would have been any faster if the crowd was armed, could be that the way they did take him was the safest.

As for the everyone armed thing, when I was in Alaska there was a saloon outside of Fairbanks where the first thing you saw upon entering was a sign telling you to check guns and knives with the bartender. Lots of rednecks and longhairs and open 24/7 in the summer. Politest bunch of rednecks and longhairs you ever saw. I don't think that necessarily translates to the lower 48 though. Too many pencil necks would be lucky to get through the day without shooting their dick off.

I have no idear on the reaction time either and you could well be right that in this instance it was likely the best way to take care of it. Thing about that is that it's not an either/or option. It is always an available option.

Sounds like a pretty cool deal up in AK that you got to experience.

Comfortably around guns and so forth goes hand in hand with experience. Those cats were real comfortable and I would imagine that is the same thing anywhere no matter the location. You've sold me on the idea of all being armed though with the line about pencil necks shooting their dick off. I'm totally in now.

[YoUDeeMan]

I was wondering why no one quoted one of the guys who helped hold down the shooter. He was armed, saw someone with a gun and was about to draw his weapon when someone else saw him and told him the guy with the gun was not the threat and that the shooter was already down.

It would have been interesting if someone with a gun had accidently shot another innocent guy with a gun.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

I was wondering why no one quoted one of the guys who helped hold down the shooter. He was armed, saw someone with a gun and was about to draw his weapon when someone else saw him and told him the guy with the gun was not the threat and that the shooter was already down.

It would have been interesting if someone with a gun had accidently shot another innocent guy with a gun.

I think that video clip was on here earlier in the thread. I assumed we had all seen it but maybe it was on another thread? It's a great point though, the guy could have went for it right away and just started blazing like some would have you believe is the logical conclusion to what happens with armed citizens but he made sure before using his weapon.

[CID1990]

My experience tells me that if Giffords had been armed she still would have a hole in her head today. The only person who expects a shooting is the person who opens fire first. What would have likely helped Giffords is if someone near the shooter had been armed, instead.

[YoUDeeMan]

I was wondering why no one quoted one of the guys who helped hold down the shooter. He was armed, saw someone with a gun and was about to draw his weapon when someone else saw him and told him the guy with the gun was not the threat and that the shooter was already down.

It would have been interesting if someone with a gun had accidently shot another innocent guy with a gun.

I think that video clip was on here earlier in the thread. I assumed we had all seen it but maybe it was on another thread? It's a great point though, the guy could have went for it right away and just started blazing like some would have you believe is the logical conclusion to what happens with armed citizens but he made sure before using his weapon.

Yeah, that and the fact someone else told him he was looking at the wrong guy. Luckily, in the confusion, some scorned chick didn't ID an ex-boyfriend for targeting.

"Hey, you with the gun, SHOOT THAT BASTARD OVER THERE!!!!"

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

I think that video clip was on here earlier in the thread. I assumed we had all seen it but maybe it was on another thread? It's a great point though, the guy could have went for it right away and just started blazing like some would have you believe is the logical conclusion to what happens with armed citizens but he made sure before using his weapon.

Yeah, that and the fact someone else told him he was looking at the wrong guy. Luckily, in the confusion, some scorned chick didn't ID an ex-boyfriend for targeting.

"Hey, you with the gun, SHOOT THAT BASTARD OVER THERE!!!!"

Someone else had the time because he wasn't just some guy looking for his day in the light to shoot someone and be the hero as has been used in numerous arguments on this subject in the past.

There's a pretty funny line like that one in one of the jokes on the "stop me if you heard this one" thread I just posted on Native's "Thereapy" thread. It's from the husband's perspective though.

[YoUDeeMan]

I was wondering about the rate of accidental shootings by well intentioned defenders of victims.

[native]

My experience tells me that if Giffords had been armed she still would have a hole in her head today. The only person who expects a shooting is the person who opens fire first. What would have likely helped Giffords is if someone near the shooter had been armed, instead.

That's what I was thinking. I also wish Gifford's staffers had been tutored in behavioral profiling, because Loughener apparently was exhibiting some signs.

I don't think there would have been anything at all wrong if two or three of her professional staffers had been armed, trained, proficient, and assigned security as a collateral duty, similar to the way one learns first aid or lifesaving and is assigned the collateral duty for any work group.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

I was wondering about the rate of accidental shootings by well intentioned defenders of victims.

It would be interesting to know. I bet there's someone on here that knows that or where to find it.

[BDKJMU]

My experience tells me that if Giffords had been armed she still would have a hole in her head today. The only person who expects a shooting is the person who opens fire first. What would have likely helped Giffords is if someone near the shooter had been armed, instead.

That's what I was thinking. I also wish Gifford's staffers had been tutored in behavioral profiling, because Loughener apparently was exhibiting some signs.

I don't think there would have been anything at all wrong if two or three of her professional staffers had been armed, trained, proficient, and assigned security as a collateral duty, similar to the way one learns first aid or lifesaving and is assigned the collateral duty for any work group.

Problem is your talking about a donk staff. I bet you're not going to find nearly as many ex military, ex law enforcement, hunters, experienced with firearms types on donk staffs as you are on conk ones.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

That's what I was thinking. I also wish Gifford's staffers had been tutored in behavioral profiling, because Loughener apparently was exhibiting some signs.

I don't think there would have been anything at all wrong if two or three of her professional staffers had been armed, trained, proficient, and assigned security as a collateral duty, similar to the way one learns first aid or lifesaving and is assigned the collateral duty for any work group.

Problem is your talking about a donk staff. I bet you're not going to find nearly as many ex military, ex law enforcement, hunters, experienced with firearms types on donk staffs as you are on conk ones.

Probably right on that but after this and all the soul searching about what should be done that seems like the most economical and feasible approach to stop or mitigate the situation if it were to occur again. Maybe it will make them look at what they should be doing to help themselves out instead of focusing on some dumb shit like the size of the clip as a measure to stop these things.