Showdown In Wisconsin

Baldy · Post by **Baldy** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:47 pm

Skjellyfetti wrote:[youtube][/youtube]

Priceless.

Baldy · Post by **Baldy** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:52 pm

Cluck U wrote:
TwinTownBisonFan wrote:total compensation public vs. private employment by education level...

submitted without comment.

What point were you making?

The point that almost 1/3 of the funding for who did this "research" comes from labor unions.

http://www.epi.org/pages/about_the_econ ... institute/

Post by **Grizalltheway** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:57 pm

Baldy wrote:
Cluck U wrote:
What point were you making?
The point that almost 1/3 of the funding for who did this "research" comes from labor unions.

http://www.epi.org/pages/about_the_econ ... institute/

And the other 2/3+ comes from grants, individuals and (

) corporations. Your point?

Baldy · Post by **Baldy** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:04 pm

Grizalltheway wrote:
Baldy wrote:
The point that almost 1/3 of the funding for who did this "research" comes from labor unions.

http://www.epi.org/pages/about_the_econ ... institute/
And the other 2/3+ comes from grants, individuals and ( ) corporations. Your point?

Wrong, the final 18% comes from individuals, other organizations, and corporations. BUT, corporations are more likely than not to be individuals...just ask kalm.

89Hen · Post by **89Hen** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:16 pm

houndawg wrote:Teachers get hurt at work all the time. Ted Strelezki beat his prof to death with a hammer over his thesis. PE teacher at my kids high school was shot in the leg at a basketball game. Ask the teachers in the inner-city schools in Chicago and NYC and LA how safe they feel at work.

Why do you insist on going down this path? Teachers rank probably in the bottom 10% of most dangerous jobs... unless you include sunburn on summer vacation.

I'm OK if it were union busting. This situation is why some unions should be busted.

Thumper 76 · Post by **Thumper 76** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:25 pm

89Hen wrote:
houndawg wrote:Teachers get hurt at work all the time. Ted Strelezki beat his prof to death with a hammer over his thesis. PE teacher at my kids high school was shot in the leg at a basketball game. Ask the teachers in the inner-city schools in Chicago and NYC and LA how safe they feel at work.
Why do you insist on going down this path? Teachers rank probably in the bottom 10% of most dangerous jobs... unless you include sunburn on summer vacation.

I'm OK if it were union busting. This situation is why some unions should be busted.

Exactly, there are cases where unions aren't really needed. Like here for instance. But the unions themselves have brainwashed their masses into thinking that they will be working for below minimum wage for the spawn of satan who will literally bend them over the lunch table and butt fuck them every other day.

Post by **TwinTownBisonFan** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:30 pm

Thumper 76 wrote:
89Hen wrote: Why do you insist on going down this path? Teachers rank probably in the bottom 10% of most dangerous jobs... unless you include sunburn on summer vacation.

I'm OK if it were union busting. This situation is why some unions should be busted.
Exactly, there are cases where unions aren't really needed. Like here for instance. But the unions themselves have brainwashed their masses into thinking that they will be working for below minimum wage for the spawn of satan who will literally bend them over the lunch table and butt fuck them every other day.

nah - both my parents worked for a major national retailer in hr and warehousing... i assure you - that's EXACTLY what happens at their non-union shops... (the 12 hour work days, the three day workweeks, the benefits that are cut every single year, the pay raises that never come... it may only be figurative butt fucking over the lunch table - but hey, at least they are monitored by cameras so they cant take a shit during their work hours without having to have a meeting with their supervisor about it)

89Hen · Post by **89Hen** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:31 pm

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:nah - both my parents worked for a major national retailer in hr and warehousing... i assure you - that's EXACTLY what happens at their non-union shops... (the 12 hour work days, the three day workweeks, the benefits that are cut every single year, the pay raises that never come... it may only be figurative butt fucking over the lunch table - but hey, at least they are monitored by cameras so they cant take a shit during their work hours without having to have a meeting with their supervisor about it)

Quit.

Post by **TwinTownBisonFan** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:36 pm

89Hen wrote:
TwinTownBisonFan wrote:nah - both my parents worked for a major national retailer in hr and warehousing... i assure you - that's EXACTLY what happens at their non-union shops... (the 12 hour work days, the three day workweeks, the benefits that are cut every single year, the pay raises that never come... it may only be figurative butt fucking over the lunch table - but hey, at least they are monitored by cameras so they cant take a shit during their work hours without having to have a meeting with their supervisor about it)
Quit.

dude - that shit is everyday and everywhere for working people in this country. you punch a clock these days without a college degree... that's about as well as you can do and still make enough to get by on.

and any time someone working there tries to stand up for themselves, or organize, they are fired.

Skjellyfetti · Post by **Skjellyfetti** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:42 pm

Thumper 76 · Post by **Thumper 76** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:44 pm

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:
89Hen wrote: Quit.
dude - that shit is everyday and everywhere for working people in this country. you punch a clock these days without a college degree... that's about as well as you can do and still make enough to get by on.

and any time someone working there tries to stand up for themselves, or organize, they are fired.

Then go out and get a goddamn degree. Everyone knows thats what you have to look forward to nowdays without a degree. Don't give me the money stuff either, there are plenty of ways to get assistance for paying for schooling, if you really want to get a degree and aren't just saying you do.

Post by **TwinTownBisonFan** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:51 pm

Thumper 76 wrote:
TwinTownBisonFan wrote:
dude - that shit is everyday and everywhere for working people in this country. you punch a clock these days without a college degree... that's about as well as you can do and still make enough to get by on.

and any time someone working there tries to stand up for themselves, or organize, they are fired.
Then go out and get a goddamn degree. Everyone knows thats what you have to look forward to nowdays without a degree. Don't give me the money stuff either, there are plenty of ways to get assistance for paying for schooling, if you really want to get a degree and aren't just saying you do.

tell that to a 55 year old dude with a mortgage. toss in a family to support and all the sudden just dropping everything and going to college ain't so damn practical... taking on 50k or more in debt to go to even a vo-tech isn't useful or practical for someone who has only a few years left to recoup the costs...

it's real easy to be self-righteous about other people when you don't have a human face on them...

Thumper 76 · Post by **Thumper 76** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:57 pm

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:
Thumper 76 wrote: Then go out and get a goddamn degree. Everyone knows thats what you have to look forward to nowdays without a degree. Don't give me the money stuff either, there are plenty of ways to get assistance for paying for schooling, if you really want to get a degree and aren't just saying you do.
tell that to a 55 year old dude with a mortgage. toss in a family to support and all the sudden just dropping everything and going to college ain't so damn practical... taking on 50k or more in debt to go to even a vo-tech isn't useful or practical for someone who has only a few years left to recoup the costs...

it's real easy to be self-righteous about other people when you don't have a human face on them...

I'm not being self-rightous about it, just blunt and honest. Sorry I'm not bleeding heart enough for you. Do I feel bad for some people in those situations, sure. Does that mean that I don't think that they could have done some things for themselves when they were younger to advance themselves? Not tryinging to knock your dad or anyone else on this board, but there have never been more ways than now to advance yourself academically.

Post by **HI54UNI** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:09 pm

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:
Thumper 76 wrote: When you look at it as a purely amount of education vs. amount of education, sure the private sector gets more money, because the people can get better paying jobs. Its not like you were comparing job to job. And the other thing is, if you go into teaching, you know your not going to make big money. Hell the biggest perks to that job though is you only work for half the year, get all of your holidays off, plus you get some vacation time. Must be rough.
this is public employees - not just teachers. most public employees can make more in the private sector - they choose the public sector for a number of reasons... chief among them - stability and more reliable benefits... and many choose it because they believe in public service

btw the ignorance of what a teachers life is like is amazing...

most teachers don't "Get summer off"... most work until mid-june finishing grading and are back at it in mid august preparing for the new year. the ones who don't draw summer school generally spend a good chunk of the "summer" doing developmental work and continuing education and or working on their masters which is required by many districts.

this notion that they are hanging by the pool and dicking around is popular - but it's also almost complete bullshit (of course there are some who do precisely that... but they are exception not the rule)

As a school board member and a friend of many teachers I call BS on that one. Teacher contracts are for 190-195 days which includes 180 days of school days plus days for getting ready each year and finishing up the end of the year. Going back for some continuing ed happens but it is not all summer nor is it all day long and not everyone has to do it. I don't know of any districts around here that require a master's degree. The decision to get a masters is the teacher's so he/she can advance on the salary scale. Going back earlier than they are contracted before school starts is a personal choice. Teachers might not get "3 months off in the summer" as people generally say but they aren't working anywhere close to the 235ish days most people work.

Baldy · Post by **Baldy** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:18 pm

Skjellyfetti wrote:

[youtube][/youtube]

Post by **TwinTownBisonFan** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:19 pm

Thumper 76 wrote:
TwinTownBisonFan wrote:
tell that to a 55 year old dude with a mortgage. toss in a family to support and all the sudden just dropping everything and going to college ain't so damn practical... taking on 50k or more in debt to go to even a vo-tech isn't useful or practical for someone who has only a few years left to recoup the costs...

it's real easy to be self-righteous about other people when you don't have a human face on them...
I'm not being self-rightous about it, just blunt and honest. Sorry I'm not bleeding heart enough for you. Do I feel bad for some people in those situations, sure. Does that mean that I don't think that they could have done some things for themselves when they were younger to advance themselves? Not tryinging to knock your dad or anyone else on this board, but there have never been more ways than now to advance yourself academically.

I raise the point mostly to point out this - 35 years ago you could graduate from high school and get a job that would pay a middle class wage, you could raise a family on that - maybe even send your kids to college if you planned well... but in the last ten years - it's gotten to be that without a bachelor's degree you are screwed - and doomed to be a part of the growing underclass - scraping by...

while it's easy to say that 35 years ago someone should have had the foresight to go to college... it's also wrong to suggest that a high school degree ought to be a sentence to a life of being second class.

Post by **TwinTownBisonFan** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:21 pm

HI54UNI wrote:
TwinTownBisonFan wrote:
this is public employees - not just teachers. most public employees can make more in the private sector - they choose the public sector for a number of reasons... chief among them - stability and more reliable benefits... and many choose it because they believe in public service

btw the ignorance of what a teachers life is like is amazing...

most teachers don't "Get summer off"... most work until mid-june finishing grading and are back at it in mid august preparing for the new year. the ones who don't draw summer school generally spend a good chunk of the "summer" doing developmental work and continuing education and or working on their masters which is required by many districts.

this notion that they are hanging by the pool and dicking around is popular - but it's also almost complete bullshit (of course there are some who do precisely that... but they are exception not the rule)
As a school board member and a friend of many teachers I call BS on that one. Teacher contracts are for 190-195 days which includes 180 days of school days plus days for getting ready each year and finishing up the end of the year. Going back for some continuing ed happens but it is not all summer nor is it all day long and not everyone has to do it. I don't know of any districts around here that require a master's degree. The decision to get a masters is the teacher's so he/she can advance on the salary scale. Going back earlier than they are contracted before school starts is a personal choice. Teachers might not get "3 months off in the summer" as people generally say but they aren't working anywhere close to the 235ish days most people work.

eh - I've got quite a few friends who are teachers - they are "off" from june 15 to august 15... and in that stretch they are usually doing some manner of professional development...

Post by **Col Hogan** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:27 pm

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:
Thumper 76 wrote: Then go out and get a goddamn degree. Everyone knows thats what you have to look forward to nowdays without a degree. Don't give me the money stuff either, there are plenty of ways to get assistance for paying for schooling, if you really want to get a degree and aren't just saying you do.
tell that to a 55 year old dude with a mortgage. toss in a family to support and all the sudden just dropping everything and going to college ain't so damn practical... taking on 50k or more in debt to go to even a vo-tech isn't useful or practical for someone who has only a few years left to recoup the costs...

it's real easy to be self-righteous about other people when you don't have a human face on them...

Didn't plan very well for the future...and the future is now here...

Post by **kalm** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:42 pm

TwinTownBisonFan wrote: I raise the point mostly to point out this - 35 years ago you could graduate from high school and get a job that would pay a middle class wage, you could raise a family on that - maybe even send your kids to college if you planned well... but in the last ten years - it's gotten to be that without a bachelor's degree you are screwed - and doomed to be a part of the growing underclass - scraping by...

while it's easy to say that 35 years ago someone should have had the foresight to go to college... it's also wrong to suggest that a high school degree ought to be a sentence to a life of being second class.

And of course the difference is, thanks to supply side economics and free trade, we've replaced the good paying manufacturing jobs with retail and service sector jobs.

Turns out, two things that not neccessarily every American can obtain is home ownership and a college degree. We've failed miserably at trying to do both. So we're left with a bunch of low paying jobs that will create less and less demand.

I hate to sound like Z but buckle up folks, unless there's some new innovation which Americans have a competitive advantage in producing, for many of those around you this is the highest standard of living that we're probably going to see in our lifetimes.

ALPHAGRIZ1 · Post by **ALPHAGRIZ1** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:32 pm

D1B wrote:
Baldy wrote:
Well, not quite the deflection kalm tried to make.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but if you want to have a vigorous discussion about that, be my guest and make another thread.
"start another thread' = typical cop out of the defeated.

Just like you did on the hate filled left wishing death on a peaceful good governor in Wisconsin.

Bronco · Post by **Bronco** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:02 pm

Based on past Tea Party threads it appears that those folks are Racists...I don't see any back people

Post by **kalm** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:23 pm

From Cairo to Madison, some pizza

MADISON, Wis. — Someone in Egypt has been paying attention to what’s happening in Madison and wanted to send a message of solidarity from across the globe — so they ordered a pizza.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/02 ... z1EeOCX83r" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yikes, looks like the commie Muslim Brotherhood is now joining forces with the pinko labor unions to form a Caliphate in Madison.

houndawg · Post by **houndawg** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:23 pm

ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:
D1B wrote:
"start another thread' = typical cop out of the defeated.

Just like you did on the hate filled left wishing death on a peaceful good governor in Wisconsin.

Need a hug, alvin?

Bronco · Post by **Bronco** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:29 pm

I can see why the Governor is winning the public relations battle in Wisconsin. Hope videos like this make the rounds

Really..are these teachers?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/blaze-e ... e-capital/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Skjellyfetti · Post by **Skjellyfetti** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:36 pm

Bronco wrote:Based on past Tea Party threads it appears that those folks are Racists...I don't see any back people

Even UW-Madison has to awkwardly photoshop black people into their brochures:

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