Can we now call Øbamacare a failure?

[SDHornet]

Let's face it, no one really cares about the faceless people they'll never meet which make up our society. This is a capitalist nation and our mindset is that we like to have things others can't, which apparently includes healthcare. People don't want to pay more in taxes to help fellow Americans...because "socialism."

So what do we get? Obamacare (despite plenty of industrial nations setting a standard we could work from).

We need to take a look in the mirror and be honest with ourselves; unless we actually care about each other, this whole venture into universal healthcare is a big joke.

You're gay....you want everyone in America to care about you and your feewings.

And yet...YOU don't give a rat's arse about the people Hillary and Obama are killing all over the world.

You're a fvcking hypocrite.

Over 250,000 dead in Syria (funny how that number hasn't changed), add in tens of thousands more each from Libya, Yemen, etc. Millions of refugees...kids drowning, innocent Christians getting killed on boats...and you don't give one shIt about any of those people. NOT. ONE. SHIT. You'll vote for Hillary for YOUR OWN SELF INTEREST.

Hypocrite.

This...this right here is one of the greatest ironies that the leftists bring to the table in their argument of "care".

[Ibanez]

You're gay....you want everyone in America to care about you and your feewings.

And yet...YOU don't give a rat's arse about the people Hillary and Obama are killing all over the world.

You're a fvcking hypocrite.

Over 250,000 dead in Syria (funny how that number hasn't changed), add in tens of thousands more each from Libya, Yemen, etc. Millions of refugees...kids drowning, innocent Christians getting killed on boats...and you don't give one shIt about any of those people. NOT. ONE. SHIT. You'll vote for Hillary for YOUR OWN SELF INTEREST.

Hypocrite.

This...this right here is one of the greatest ironies that the leftists bring to the table in their argument of "care".

Yup, it's all about care for other citizens just not our citizens. They don't care if Americans like them, but they'll be damned if the Syrians aren't going to show them a lil love.

[CAA Flagship]

PNHP has been pro single payer all along but they've made solid arguments for it all along too.

Let's face it, no one really cares about the faceless people they'll never meet which make up our society. This is a capitalist nation and our mindset is that we like to have things others can't, which apparently includes healthcare. People don't want to pay more in taxes to help fellow Americans...because "socialism."

So what do we get? Obamacare (despite plenty of industrial nations setting a standard we could work from).

We need to take a look in the mirror and be honest with ourselves; unless we actually care about each other, this whole venture into universal healthcare is a big joke.

I don't think you understand what the other countries actually have. Their physicians, hospitals, and treatments are decades behind ours. Capitalism has provided us with many great doctors and the best equipment. Capitalism has provided us with the best of just about everything. Sure, there is a country here and there that may have the best of something, but it is the result of putting all their eggs in one basket. But that's all they have. Nobody has the broad "best of" that we do.

[kalm]

Let's face it, no one really cares about the faceless people they'll never meet which make up our society. This is a capitalist nation and our mindset is that we like to have things others can't, which apparently includes healthcare. People don't want to pay more in taxes to help fellow Americans...because "socialism."

So what do we get? Obamacare (despite plenty of industrial nations setting a standard we could work from).

We need to take a look in the mirror and be honest with ourselves; unless we actually care about each other, this whole venture into universal healthcare is a big joke.

I don't think you understand what the other countries actually have. Their physicians, hospitals, and treatments are decades behind ours. Capitalism has provided us with many great doctors and the best equipment. Capitalism has provided us with the best of just about everything. Sure, there is a country here and there that may have the best of something, but it is the result of putting all their eggs in one basket. But that's all they have. Nobody has the broad "best of" that we do.

Yes...they're dropping like flies out there!

And there's no way in hell we can take other ideas, apply some of that American ingenuity and improve on them. Nope..impossible...on account of....America!

[∞∞∞]

I don't think you understand what the other countries actually have. Their physicians, hospitals, and treatments are decades behind ours. Capitalism has provided us with many great doctors and the best equipment. Capitalism has provided us with the best of just about everything. Sure, there is a country here and there that may have the best of something, but it is the result of putting all their eggs in one basket. But that's all they have. Nobody has the broad "best of" that we do.

Yes...they're dropping like flies out there!

And there's no way in hell we can take other ideas, apply some of that American ingenuity and improve on them. Nope..impossible...on account of....America!

It's funny because every single industrialized nation with a healthcare system, minus Denmark, has a higher average lifespan than the United States (some by quite considerably). Even if some people need to wait for their services, preventative care more than makes up for the cost of providing healthcare to every citizen. It's an investment that pays off in the long-run.

And you can have a hybrid where your company provides "extra" coverage, or perks, beyond a basic one.

I don't question that we're the best in terms of creating new medicines and innovative surgeries (because we are), but the irony is we can't afford them. But other nations with better systems are buying them.

[SDHornet]

Yes...they're dropping like flies out there!

And there's no way in hell we can take other ideas, apply some of that American ingenuity and improve on them. Nope..impossible...on account of....America!

It's funny because every single industrialized nation with a healthcare system, minus Denmark, has a higher average lifespan than the United States (some by quite considerably). Even if some people need to wait for their services, preventative care more than makes up for the cost of providing healthcare to every citizen. It's an investment that pays off in the long-run.

And you can have a hybrid where your company provides "extra" coverage, or perks, beyond a basic one.

I don't question that we're the best in terms of creating new medicines and innovative surgeries (because we are), but the irony is we can't afford them. But other nations with better systems are buying them.

If America had the work schedule those trashy Euros have I'm sure we'd be living longer too.

Our wonderful new system taxes those "extra" coverages at a nice clip...hence why not many companies are offering them anymore and union exemptions are the main reason why they are even still around.

And your last part is just

[CAA Flagship]

Yes...they're dropping like flies out there!

And there's no way in hell we can take other ideas, apply some of that American ingenuity and improve on them. Nope..impossible...on account of....America!

It's funny because every single industrialized nation with a healthcare system, minus Denmark, has a higher average lifespan than the United States (some by quite considerably). Even if some people need to wait for their services, preventative care more than makes up for the cost of providing healthcare to every citizen. It's an investment that pays off in the long-run.

And you can have a hybrid where your company provides "extra" coverage, or perks, beyond a basic one.

I don't question that we're the best in terms of creating new medicines and innovative surgeries (because we are), but the irony is we can't afford them. But other nations with better systems are buying them.

America is in the fast lane. We work harder and play harder. Also, we have Doritos.

[JohnStOnge]

What's interesting about today's news is that this was not unexpected. All day I was hearing the news about the premiums increase and people acting like this is some big surprise. Then I got home and saw a graphic on TV indicating that back when the bill was being considered the CBO said the premiums in 2017 would be just about what they are going to be.

So I Googled around to see and saw this:

Yet even the 2017 hikes will place premiums close to where experts predicted they would be at this stage. In November 2009, the Congressional Budget Office projected that single coverage premiums for a benchmark silver plan would average $5,200 in 2016. The average for those plans in states using the federal healthcare.gov exchange will be $5,586 next year, in line with the CBO’s annual projected growth rate.

So the idea that this is a situation that is out of line with what people were expecting when they passed the Bill is kind of out of line with reality.

[CAA Flagship]

What's interesting about today's news is that this was not unexpected. All day I was hearing the news about the premiums increase and people acting like this is some big surprise. Then I got home and saw a graphic on TV indicating that back when the bill was being considered the CBO said the premiums in 2017 would be just about what they are going to be.

So I Googled around to see and saw this:

Yet even the 2017 hikes will place premiums close to where experts predicted they would be at this stage. In November 2009, the Congressional Budget Office projected that single coverage premiums for a benchmark silver plan would average $5,200 in 2016. The average for those plans in states using the federal healthcare.gov exchange will be $5,586 next year, in line with the CBO’s annual projected growth rate.

So the idea that this is a situation that is out of line with what people were expecting when they passed the Bill is kind of out of line with reality.

What's out of line with reality is anyone that thinks that people are willing to pay that much for a medium health plan.

[kalm]

It's funny because every single industrialized nation with a healthcare system, minus Denmark, has a higher average lifespan than the United States (some by quite considerably). Even if some people need to wait for their services, preventative care more than makes up for the cost of providing healthcare to every citizen. It's an investment that pays off in the long-run.

And you can have a hybrid where your company provides "extra" coverage, or perks, beyond a basic one.

I don't question that we're the best in terms of creating new medicines and innovative surgeries (because we are), but the irony is we can't afford them. But other nations with better systems are buying them.

If America had the work schedule those trashy Euros have I'm sure we'd be living longer too.

Our wonderful new system taxes those "extra" coverages at a nice clip...hence why not many companies are offering them anymore and union exemptions are the main reason why they are even still around.

And your last part is just

Employers shouldn't be expexted to provide health insurance.

[Pwns]

It's funny because every single industrialized nation with a healthcare system, minus Denmark, has a higher average lifespan than the United States (some by quite considerably). Even if some people need to wait for their services, preventative care more than makes up for the cost of providing healthcare to every citizen. It's an investment that pays off in the long-run.

And you can have a hybrid where your company provides "extra" coverage, or perks, beyond a basic one.

I don't question that we're the best in terms of creating new medicines and innovative surgeries (because we are), but the irony is we can't afford them. But other nations with better systems are buying them.

Lifestyle choices.

[Baldy]

If America had the work schedule those trashy Euros have I'm sure we'd be living longer too.

Our wonderful new system taxes those "extra" coverages at a nice clip...hence why not many companies are offering them anymore and union exemptions are the main reason why they are even still around.

And your last part is just

Employers shouldn't be expexted to provide health insurance.

Neither should the government.

[ASUG8]

If America had the work schedule those trashy Euros have I'm sure we'd be living longer too.

Our wonderful new system taxes those "extra" coverages at a nice clip...hence why not many companies are offering them anymore and union exemptions are the main reason why they are even still around.

And your last part is just

If we had fewer McDonalds, Burger Kings, etc. we'd live longer too. Like you mentioned, we work more, vacation less, make poor nutritional decisions, but also have some of (if not the) most medically innovative programs in the world. We also roll things out at a glacial pace due to FDA roadblocks with regard to new treatments and drugs vs. much of the rest of the world, and our medical political lobbyists are soundly in bed with our government. Doctors are compensated for prescribing drugs vs. treating the root causes. Our system is broken, and the ACA ain't the answer.

[kalm]

Employers shouldn't be expexted to provide health insurance.

Neither should the government.

Well obviously that's the argument here.

I think there are certain things that shouldn't be for-profit. Basic health insurance is one of them along with prisons, the military, and basic education.

[Baldy]

Neither should the government.

Well obviously that's the argument here.

I think there are certain things that shouldn't be for-profit. Basic health insurance is one of them along with prisons, the military, and basic education.

What about basic housing and food? We could go on and on with this. The crux of the matter is that at least on some level, prisons, military, and basic education is the function of government...as well as, fire and police protection.

[CAA Flagship]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGsMmYv4DK4[/youtube]

[Ibanez]

If America had the work schedule those trashy Euros have I'm sure we'd be living longer too.

Our wonderful new system taxes those "extra" coverages at a nice clip...hence why not many companies are offering them anymore and union exemptions are the main reason why they are even still around.

And your last part is just

If we had fewer McDonalds, Burger Kings, etc. we'd live longer too. Like you mentioned, we work more, vacation less, make poor nutritional decisions, but also have some of (if not the) most medically innovative programs in the world. We also roll things out at a glacial pace due to FDA roadblocks with regard to new treatments and drugs vs. much of the rest of the world, and our medical political lobbyists are soundly in bed with our government. Doctors are compensated for prescribing drugs vs. treating the root causes. Our system is broken, and the ACA ain't the answer.

We also have people that complain about the cost of eating healthy and the rising cost of medicines but they fail to see the irony in that.

[CAA Flagship]

If we had fewer McDonalds, Burger Kings, etc. we'd live longer too. Like you mentioned, we work more, vacation less, make poor nutritional decisions, but also have some of (if not the) most medically innovative programs in the world. We also roll things out at a glacial pace due to FDA roadblocks with regard to new treatments and drugs vs. much of the rest of the world, and our medical political lobbyists are soundly in bed with our government. Doctors are compensated for prescribing drugs vs. treating the root causes. Our system is broken, and the ACA ain't the answer.

We also have people that complain about the cost of eating healthy and the rising cost of medicines but they fail to see the irony in that.

[SDHornet]

If America had the work schedule those trashy Euros have I'm sure we'd be living longer too.

Our wonderful new system taxes those "extra" coverages at a nice clip...hence why not many companies are offering them anymore and union exemptions are the main reason why they are even still around.

And your last part is just

Employers shouldn't be expexted to provide health insurance.

And neither should the gubmint.

[JohnStOnge]

I'm completely against government being involved in health care at all except in the sense of regulating it to make sure people don't claim something works when it doesn't. Stuff like that.

But the premiums themselves are not out of line with what they were expected to be at this time before the law was adopted. The premiums themselves should not be seen as some kind of indication that things didn't go as planned.

[Baldy]

I'm completely against government being involved in health care at all except in the sense of regulating it to make sure people don't claim something works when it doesn't. Stuff like that.

But the premiums themselves are not out of line with what they were expected to be at this time before the law was adopted. The premiums themselves should not be seen as some kind of indication that things didn't go as planned.

What about the subsidies and the $5,000 - $10,000+ deductibles?

[JohnStOnge]

I'm completely against government being involved in health care at all except in the sense of regulating it to make sure people don't claim something works when it doesn't. Stuff like that.

But the premiums themselves are not out of line with what they were expected to be at this time before the law was adopted. The premiums themselves should not be seen as some kind of indication that things didn't go as planned.

What about the subsidies and the $5,000 - $10,000+ deductibles?

I'm assuming the increase in subsidies was expected since the increase in premiums was expected. Don't know about the deductibles. Haven't seen anything on that.

[UNI88]

Employers shouldn't be expexted to provide health insurance.

And neither should the gubmint.

Yes, Obamacare is a failure and has been for some time. The old system was broken too and I'm not sure how well single payer would work in America.

The question that needs to be asked and that I'm not sure can be accurately answered is "what is the impact of the cost of providing healthcare on job creation and the ability of American companies to compete globally?"

It seems intuitive that the cost of healthcare is causing companies to resist and procrastinate on hiring new employees. It would also seem to make it harder for them to compete.

There has to be a better way to do this but the entrenched interests will fight any changes tooth and nail.

[kalm]

And neither should the gubmint.

Yes, Obamacare is a failure and has been for some time. The old system was broken too and I'm not sure how well single payer would work in America.

The question that needs to be asked and that I'm not sure can be accurately answered is "what is the impact of the cost of providing healthcare on job creation and the ability of American companies to compete globally?"

It seems intuitive that the cost of healthcare is causing companies to resist and procrastinate on hiring new employees. It would also seem to make it harder for them to compete.

There has to be a better way to do this but the entrenched interests will fight any changes tooth and nail.

Great points.

[DSUrocks07]

Neither should the government.

Well obviously that's the argument here.

I think there are certain things that shouldn't be for-profit. Basic health insurance is one of them along with prisons, the military, and basic education.

What's your definition of "for-profit"? Just on record.

How would a proper "non profit health insurer" operate?

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