Trump to use Executive Order to End Birthright Citizenship

[CID1990]

Target practice, bro.

You are getting our U.S. Military confused with ICE (otherwise known as Trump's SS).

So you are not in favor of enforcement of our immigration laws?


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[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Trump now pledging to send 15,000 troops to the border.

This guy sure knows how to waste money.

Only a libtard would think protecting our borders is a waste of money.

Thank God for Trump being here to honor the constitution and finally protect America

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[ALPHAGRIZ1]

He tried to be tough on immigration from the ME and you fucking snowflakes pissed and moaned about how unfair it was...you got a real short memory, Jeff.

Saudi Arabia wasn't on the list.

Trump wasn't president

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[JohnStOnge]

[ And more importantly, the trade infrastructure between us and China is ultimately weighted heavily towards China in ways we cannot affect - such as demand in both countries for the things we each can readily produce

I don't know if this is related to what you are saying there but I think the bottom line is that US consumers have benefitted greatly from being able to buy cheap goods produced in China. If that situation gets disturbed US consumers are not going to like it. That and the fact that China is a totalitarian government, in my opinion. puts China in the catbird seat. I don't think Trump or anyone else in the United States is going to win a trade war with China.

[mainejeff]

Saudi Arabia wasn't on the list.

Trump wasn't president

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He's the one that proposed the ban moron.

[CID1990]

[ And more importantly, the trade infrastructure between us and China is ultimately weighted heavily towards China in ways we cannot affect - such as demand in both countries for the things we each can readily produce

I don't know if this is related to what you are saying there but I think the bottom line is that US consumers have benefitted greatly from being able to buy cheap goods produced in China. If that situation gets disturbed US consumers are not going to like it. That and the fact that China is a totalitarian government, in my opinion. puts China in the catbird seat. I don't think Trump or anyone else in the United States is going to win a trade war with China.

Those are legitimate concerns. One is structural and is sort of what I was talking about - China makes cheap crap and we demand cheap crap. That is part of the trade infrastructure. That is why using the tariff to manipulate the behavior of bad actors is only a part of what should be an overall strategy - improving our own domestic production capabilities, which also improves the consumer buying power of more Americans... and then more Americans move up out of the WalMart bracket and into the North Face bracket. (Yes, I am aware that the North Face produces some products in China)

As for China being a totalitarian government - that only gives them an advantage out to a point. They are still a market economy and over the last 20 years the Chinese middle class has grown exponentially. The Communist Party in China is still beholden to their people, albeit in less messy ways than our own political leaders are to us. Xi is under pressure from the Politburo and if he wants to hang on to the shiny new President for Life title he is going to have to make concessions. Winning a trade war is maybe the most pure example of an "eye of the beholder" discussion. If the plan is to modify the behavior of a trade partner, then the goalposts are 100 yards wide when it comes to China... the pool table is so slanted to China at this point that any movement in the other direction could be considered a "win".

Postscript - there is also the possibility that China's totalitarian system works in our favor as well - China has stoked their own domestic nationalism over the last several years. Concessions to the US could well be unpopular amongst the hoi polloi in China, but the government would still be able to act counter to those protests in order to preserve their 20 year plan.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Trump wasn't president

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He's the one that proposed the ban moron.

Good god you're stupid........ I am completely amazed you can log onto this site and hit submit. You are not to far from smoke signals

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[mainejeff]

He's the one that proposed the ban moron.

Good god you're stupid........ I am completely amazed you can log onto this site and hit submit. You are not to far from smoke signals

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Your act......

[AZGrizFan]

Trump wasn't president

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He's the one that proposed the ban moron.

You mean before Obama proposed the ban?

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Good god you're stupid........ I am completely amazed you can log onto this site and hit submit. You are not to far from smoke signals

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Your act......

Whos acting?

I know it's not you..... You really are this stupid.

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[CID1990]

I'm always fascinated by the debates that led to our Amendments. Hot Air has a good piece on the arguments surrounding the 14th Amendment prior to its passage in the 1860s.

https://hotair.com/archives/2018/11/04/ ... amendment/

There are phrase turns embedded in the Constitution - particularly in the 2nd and the 14th, which can be debated but the intent of the politicians who framed them is pretty clear when their discussions are examined


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[∞∞∞]

I mean we allowed aliens to vote before states began banning it (out of fear) in the early 1900s, with the last being in 20s (and didn't formally ban it until the 90s).

So yeah, I imagine the intent was for anyone born within the US (unless to diplomats) was a citizen.

[CID1990]

I mean we allowed aliens to vote before states began banning it (out of fear) in the early 1900s, with the last being in 20s (and didn't formally ban it until the 90s).

So yeah, I imagine the intent was for anyone born within the US (unless to diplomats) was a citizen.

Name one country that allows nonresident aliens the right to vote in national elections, Treep

I'll wait

(So much fear in the world I suppose)


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[Skjellyfetti]

Pretty sure he's talking about resident aliens.

[CID1990]

Pretty sure he's talking about resident aliens.

OK Mr Semantic

I'm also pretty sure he's talking about national elections, no?

I'll continue to wait


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[∞∞∞]

Pretty sure he's talking about resident aliens.

OK Mr Semantic

I'm also pretty sure he's talking about national elections, no?

I'll continue to wait

Yes, national elections. And I don't care enough to look up the answer.

A good democracy allows everyone to have a say; America should be better than every nation.

[CID1990]

OK Mr Semantic

I'm also pretty sure he's talking about national elections, no?

I'll continue to wait

Yes, national elections. And I don't care enough to look up the answer.

A good democracy allows everyone to have a say; America should be better than every nation.

Once again you don't think past the initial "this would be nice" stage

[∞∞∞]

Yes, national elections. And I don't care enough to look up the answer.

A good democracy allows everyone to have a say; America should be better than every nation.

Once again you don't think past the initial "this would be nice" stage

I guess for 100+ years, no one thought past it either. And yet the nation soldiered on.

I get it; you want to have power over another because you're born here - randomly in the context of human history - which somehow makes you more entitled to having a voice than someone else. (We even have Americans screwing Americans with gerrymandering, voter suppression, unequal representation, etc.)

A genuinely fair democracy gives an equal voice to everyone; there's nothing more to it than that. Any consequence which comes from it is separate from the philosophy itself.

[Ibanez]

OK Mr Semantic

I'm also pretty sure he's talking about national elections, no?

I'll continue to wait

Yes, national elections. And I don't care enough to look up the answer.

A good democracy allows everyone to have a say; America should be better than every nation.

Even foreigners?


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[Winterborn]

Yes, national elections. And I don't care enough to look up the answer.

A good democracy allows everyone to have a say; America should be better than every nation.

Even foreigners?


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Sounds Nationalistic.

[CID1990]

Once again you don't think past the initial "this would be nice" stage

I guess for 100+ years, no one thought past it either. And yet the nation soldiered on.

I get it; you want to have power over another because you're born here - randomly in the context of human history - which somehow makes you more entitled to having a voice than someone else. (We even have Americans screwing Americans with gerrymandering, voter suppression, unequal representation, etc.)

A genuinely fair democracy gives an equal voice to everyone; there's nothing more to it than that. Any consequence which comes from it is separate from the philosophy itself.

Yes, I expect to have more voice in my own country than someone who is a citizen of another country. And, the US is the only country I can vote in (since exactly zero countries allow noncitizens to vote in their national elections... with commonwealth exceptions)

BTW I can’t figure out why it is that you and others like to point out how things were done a century ago when it suits you.. we did lots of stupid things 100 years ago. Like allowing noncitizens to vote while prohibiting women and blacks from doing so... ah yes! Those old times they are not forgotten!

[AZGrizFan]

I guess for 100+ years, no one thought past it either. And yet the nation soldiered on.

I get it; you want to have power over another because you're born here - randomly in the context of human history - which somehow makes you more entitled to having a voice than someone else. (We even have Americans screwing Americans with gerrymandering, voter suppression, unequal representation, etc.)

A genuinely fair democracy gives an equal voice to everyone; there's nothing more to it than that. Any consequence which comes from it is separate from the philosophy itself.

Yes, I expect to have more voice in my own country than someone who is a citizen of another country. And, the US is the only country I can vote in (since exactly zero countries allow noncitizens to vote in their national elections... with commonwealth exceptions)

BTW I can’t figure out why it is that you and others like to point out how things were done a century ago when it suits you.. we did lots of stupid things 100 years ago. Like allowing noncitizens to vote while prohibiting women and blacks from doing so... ah yes! Those old times they are not forgotten!

I wonder if Trip ever gets tired of having his ass handed to him. Repeatedly.