The Trump Whistleblower Extravaganza Thread

[Skjellyfetti]

But, better a political hack campaign contributor that at least has to go through Senate confirmation than the President's consigliere conducting shadow foreign policy with no check.

[Ibanez]

The USA would be much better off if it awarded plum ambassadorships to State Department professionals who knew a few things about foreign policy and the countries they were posted to, rather than to political hack campaign contributors.

Agreed. Also, don't hire someone to, ultimately, run FEMA whose prior job was with the International Arabian Horse Association and whose former law associates said he was subpar.

[Ibanez]

No matter which side you’re on, I think we can all agree that Gordon Sondland is a scumbag.

He has definitely hurt his credibility. Which is what the GOP is going to go after. They won't defend the call or POTUS, they'll just attempt to destroy the witnesses. I get the strategy.


Btw, anyone notice how it's gone from " no quid pro quo" and now GOP Senators and Mulvaney are saying there was or even if there were it's no big deal? I wonder how it'll change next week.

[89Hen]

Btw, anyone notice how it's gone from " no quid pro quo" and now GOP Senators and Mulvaney are saying there was or even if there were it's no big deal? I wonder how it'll change next week.

Yup. Just like the impeachment went from finances to Russia to Ukraine...

[CAA Flagship]

No matter which side you’re on, I think we can all agree that Gordon Sondland is a scumbag.

He has definitely hurt his credibility. Which is what the GOP is going to go after. They won't defend the call or POTUS, they'll just attempt to destroy the witnesses. I get the strategy.


Btw, anyone notice how it's gone from " no quid pro quo" and now GOP Senators and Mulvaney are saying there was or even if there were it's no big deal? I wonder how it'll change next week.

It wouldn't surprise me if the GOP is digging up info on other qpq deals by other Presidents in the past.

[Ibanez]

He has definitely hurt his credibility. Which is what the GOP is going to go after. They won't defend the call or POTUS, they'll just attempt to destroy the witnesses. I get the strategy.


Btw, anyone notice how it's gone from " no quid pro quo" and now GOP Senators and Mulvaney are saying there was or even if there were it's no big deal? I wonder how it'll change next week.

It wouldn't surprise me if the GOP is digging up info on other qpq deals by other Presidents in the past.

I somewhat agree with the Republicans. I don’t see anything wrong with saying, “We will lift sanctions if you stop killing babies,” because that’s humanitarian. Or well provide aid once you do oust the extremist clerics.

Quid Pro Quo when it’s not in the interest of America, rather your personal gain, is something I do have a problem with. No politician should be asking a foreign govt to interfere in our elections, and that includes investigating debunked conspiracy theories about a potential opponent.


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[Ibanez]

I see that as they’re going where the investigation takes them.

Not really the same as changing your story when facts come out that reflect poorly on your side.


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[89Hen]

investigating debunked conspiracy theories about a potential opponent

Debunked?

[CID1990]

The USA would be much better off if it awarded plum ambassadorships to State Department professionals who knew a few things about foreign policy and the countries they were posted to, rather than to political hack campaign contributors.

You’ll find that most senior State people will defend the *idea* of political appointments - they do have their diplomatic advantages.

In many countries (arguably a majority of them, and also the ones where we need the most “diplomacy”) the culture is such that receiving an ambassador who is personally connected to the President is considered a diplomatic honor to the host country in and of itself. I have served in one of them: Vietnam (we had career Ambassadors while I was there, though).

Some political appointees bring unique perspectives to their posts.. perspectives that you will rarely find in career appointees, such as entrepreneurial experience. There are of course some really unqualified political appointees out there... some are atrocious. And no President since perhaps George HW Bush can lay claim to the high ground on this. The DoS OIG records alone show that there have been a fair share of duds in Ambassadorial appointments.

I am frequently critical of political appointments but do not think we should nuke them entirely... drawing solely from the diplomatic corps for Ambassadors implies that only government bureaucrats have the expertise to conduct diplomacy on behalf of the President (that’s a very DC Swampy position to take... not to mention government elitist).

Instead, the Senate should do its actual job and not confirm appointments who are not qualified or capable.


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[CID1990]

investigating debunked conspiracy theories about a potential opponent

Debunked?

I was about to ask the same thing

We don’t need to be exonerating the Bidens just to excoriate Trump

They are not mutually exclusive. Hunter Biden has obviously profited from his father’s government positions. In fact Hunter Biden is just Donald Trump Jr. with a D beside his name.


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[Skjellyfetti]

Hunter Biden profited from his father's position. I don't think there's any doubt about that.

But, that's not what the theory is. The theory is that Joe Biden threatened to withhold aid to Ukraine to get the investigation into Burisma shut down. The evidence there is lacking... and that's what Guiliani was trying to dig up.

There's a bunch of evidence that the Trump administration withheld aid to get Ukraine to launch an investigation of Burisma and Biden.

[CID1990]

Hunter Biden profited from his father's position. I don't think there's any doubt about that.

But, that's not what the theory is. The theory is that Joe Biden threatened to withhold aid to Ukraine to get the investigation into Burisma shut down. The evidence there is lacking... and that's what Guiliani was trying to dig up.

There's a bunch of evidence that the Trump administration withheld aid to get Ukraine to launch an investigation of Burisma and Biden.

HAH HAH HAH

Watching you obfuscate evidence of Biden’s activities in the same paragraph where you see a bonfire with Trump’s activities is like watching chimpanzees fvck at the zoo


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[UNI88]

Hunter Biden profited from his father's position. I don't think there's any doubt about that.

But, that's not what the theory is. The theory is that Joe Biden threatened to withhold aid to Ukraine to get the investigation into Burisma shut down. The evidence there is lacking... and that's what Guiliani was trying to dig up.

There's a bunch of evidence that the Trump administration withheld aid to get Ukraine to launch an investigation of Burisma and Biden.

The HoR could give the American people their money's worth and look into Biden/Burisma at the same time they're looking into Trump and Guiliani? Congressional BOGO at it's best! Will the Donks allow it or will they stonewall inquiries into Biden and Burisma?

[Skjellyfetti]

Hunter Biden profited from his father's position. I don't think there's any doubt about that.

But, that's not what the theory is. The theory is that Joe Biden threatened to withhold aid to Ukraine to get the investigation into Burisma shut down. The evidence there is lacking... and that's what Guiliani was trying to dig up.

There's a bunch of evidence that the Trump administration withheld aid to get Ukraine to launch an investigation of Burisma and Biden.

HAH HAH HAH

Watching you obfuscate evidence of Biden’s activities in the same paragraph where you see a bonfire with Trump’s activities is like watching chimpanzees fvck at the zoo

There's testimony under oath that the Ambassador to the EU threatened to withhold aid to Ukraine until they announced an investigation.

There are text messages between the Ambassador to the EU and the acting Ambassador to Ukraine (Charge d'affaires) arranging this. There is testimony from both confirming it.

What is the evidence of Biden's threat to withhold money to Ukraine having anything to do with his son?

The whole point of Guiliani's mission to Ukraine was to find evidence. If there was evidence... why not just present it.

[Ivytalk]

^^^^^^

The Wanking Sense is strong in this one.

[BDKJMU]

HAH HAH HAH

Watching you obfuscate evidence of Biden’s activities in the same paragraph where you see a bonfire with Trump’s activities is like watching chimpanzees fvck at the zoo

There's testimony under oath that the Ambassador to the EU threatened to withhold aid to Ukraine until they announced an investigation.

There are text messages between the Ambassador to the EU and the acting Ambassador to Ukraine (Charge d'affaires) arranging this. There is testimony from both confirming it.

What is the evidence of Biden's threat to withhold money to Ukraine having anything to do with his son?

The whole point of Guiliani's mission to Ukraine was to find evidence. If there was evidence... why not just present it.

-Hunter Biden’s company was under investigation for corruption by the Inspector Gen of Ukraine.
-VP Joe Biden told Pres of Ukraine $$$ would be withheld if Inspector Gen wasn’t fired.

[CID1990]

There's testimony under oath that the Ambassador to the EU threatened to withhold aid to Ukraine until they announced an investigation.

There are text messages between the Ambassador to the EU and the acting Ambassador to Ukraine (Charge d'affaires) arranging this. There is testimony from both confirming it.

What is the evidence of Biden's threat to withhold money to Ukraine having anything to do with his son?

The whole point of Guiliani's mission to Ukraine was to find evidence. If there was evidence... why not just present it.

-Hunter Biden’s company was under investigation for corruption by the Inspector Gen of Ukraine.
-VP Joe Biden told Pres of Ukraine $$$ would be withheld if Inspector Gen wasn’t fired.

Don't stop Reeeeeeek! when he's coming back for more.

We've heard him define evidence for us before but apparently it applies when Trump is concerned only

[Skjellyfetti]

-Hunter Biden’s company was under investigation for corruption by the Inspector Gen of Ukraine.
-VP Joe Biden told Pres of Ukraine $$$ would be withheld if Inspector Gen wasn’t fired.

Those are two issues separated by a chasm of nothing.

If the EU ambasassador or the Charge d'affaires / ambassador to Ukraine could testify that there was a link between the two points, I would agree. If there was any evidence linking the two, I would agree.

There isn't.



Most of the Western world wanted the prosecutor fired. EU. Republicans. Democrats. He was a holdover from Yanukovych's administration. It wasn't because he was too tough on corruption. It was quite the opposite - he was soft on corruption. If Biden fired him to save his son - it all but guaranteed a tougher prosecutor on corruption being appointed. And one was.

Shokin served as prosecutor general under Viktor Yanukovych, the former president of Ukraine who fled to Russia after he was removed from power in 2014 and was later found guilty of treason. Shokin remained in power after Yanukovych’s ouster, but he failed “to indict any major figures from the Yanukovych administration for corruption,” according to testimony John E. Herbst, a former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine under President George W. Bush, gave in March 2016 to a subcommittee of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

“By late fall of 2015, the EU and the United States joined the chorus of those seeking Mr. Shokin’s removal as the start of an overall reform of the Procurator General’s Office,” Herbst testified. “U.S. Vice President Joe Biden spoke publicly about this before and during his December visit to Kyiv; but Mr. Shokin remained in place.”

In early 2016, Deputy General Prosecutor Vitaliy Kasko resigned in protest of corruption within Shokin’s office. In a televised statement, Kasko said: “Today, the General Prosecutor’s office is a brake on the reform of criminal justice, a hotbed of corruption, an instrument of political pressure, one of the key obstacles to the arrival of foreign investment in Ukraine.”

In reporting on Kasko’s resignation, Reuters noted that Ukraine’s “failure to tackle endemic corruption” threatened the IMF’s $40 billion aid program for Ukraine. At the time, the IMF put a hold on $1.7 billion in aid that had been due to be released to Ukraine four months earlier.

“After President Poroshenko complained that Shokin was taking too long to clean up corruption even within the PGO itself, he asked for Shokin’s resignation,” the CRS report said. Shokin submitted his resignation in February 2016 and was removed a month later.

Michael McFaul, a former U.S. ambassador to Russia under President Barack Obama, on Sept. 20 tweeted that the “Obama administration policy (not just ‘Biden policy’) to push for this Ukrainian general prosecutor to go” was “a shared view in many capitals, multilateral lending institutions, and pro-democratic Ukrainian civil society.”

At the time, however, news organizations were also reporting that Biden’s anti-corruption message in Kyiv was being undermined by an appearance of a conflict of interest.

In May 2014, Hunter Biden became a board member for the Burisma Group, one of the biggest private gas companies in Ukraine. In a June 2014 article, the Associated Press called Biden’s hiring “politically awkward.”

“Hunter Biden’s employment means he will be working as a director and top lawyer for a Ukrainian energy company during the period when his father and others in the Obama administration attempt to influence the policies of Ukraine’s new government, especially on energy issues,” the AP wrote.

In December 2015, the Wall Street Journal reported that Mykola Zlochevsky, who ran Burisma, was under investigation by Ukrainian and British authorities for “alleged criminal wrongdoing,” and it quoted anti-corruption advocates in Ukraine who were concerned that Zlochevsky would be protected from prosecution because of Hunter Biden’s role with Burisma.

“If an investigator sees the son of the vice president of the United States is part of the management of a company … that investigator will be uncomfortable pushing the case forward,” Daria Kaleniuk, executive director of Ukraine’s Anti-Corruption Action Center, or AntAC, told the Wall Street Journal.

However, there is no evidence that Hunter Biden was ever under investigation or that his father pressured Ukraine to fire Shokin on his behalf.

In May, Lutsenko, then-Ukraine’s prosecutor general, told Bloomberg News: “Hunter Biden did not violate any Ukrainian laws — at least as of now, we do not see any wrongdoing.”

Lutsenko told Bloomberg that the prosecutor general’s office in 2014 — before Shokin took office — opened a corruption investigation against Zlochevsky and numerous others. He said the probe’s focus was Serghi Kurchenko, who owned a number of gas companies, and a transaction that occurred in November 2013, months before Biden joined Burisma.

On Jan. 13, 2017, Burisma announced that “all legal proceedings and pending criminal allegations against its President Mykola Zlochevsky and operating companies of Burisma Group have been closed.” Hunter Biden told the New York Times that he left Burisma’s board earlier this year when his term expired.

On “Fox News Sunday,” host John Roberts challenged Giuliani, Trump’s private attorney, on the facts of the case in a Sept. 22 interview. Roberts noted that “other countries in the West were saying [Shokin] needs to go as well,” not just Joe Biden. Giuliani responded, “What does it matter, if the — if the son is under investigation? He didn’t disclose that.”

But there was no evidence at the time that Hunter Biden was under investigation, and there still isn’t.

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/09/trump ... d-ukraine/

[SeattleGriz]

-Hunter Biden’s company was under investigation for corruption by the Inspector Gen of Ukraine.
-VP Joe Biden told Pres of Ukraine $$$ would be withheld if Inspector Gen wasn’t fired.

Those are two issues separated by a chasm of nothing.

If the EU ambasassador or the Charge d'affaires to Ukraine could testify that there was a link between the two points, I would agree. If there was any evidence linking the two, I would agree.

There isn't.



Most of the Western world wanted the prosecutor fired. EU. Republicans. Democrats. He was a holdover from Yanukovych's administration. It wasn't because he was too tough on corruption. It was quite the opposite - he was soft on corruption. If Biden fired him to fire his son - it all but guaranteed a tougher prosecutor on corruption being appointed. And one was.

Shokin served as prosecutor general under Viktor Yanukovych, the former president of Ukraine who fled to Russia after he was removed from power in 2014 and was later found guilty of treason. Shokin remained in power after Yanukovych’s ouster, but he failed “to indict any major figures from the Yanukovych administration for corruption,” according to testimony John E. Herbst, a former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine under President George W. Bush, gave in March 2016 to a subcommittee of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

“By late fall of 2015, the EU and the United States joined the chorus of those seeking Mr. Shokin’s removal as the start of an overall reform of the Procurator General’s Office,” Herbst testified. “U.S. Vice President Joe Biden spoke publicly about this before and during his December visit to Kyiv; but Mr. Shokin remained in place.”

In early 2016, Deputy General Prosecutor Vitaliy Kasko resigned in protest of corruption within Shokin’s office. In a televised statement, Kasko said: “Today, the General Prosecutor’s office is a brake on the reform of criminal justice, a hotbed of corruption, an instrument of political pressure, one of the key obstacles to the arrival of foreign investment in Ukraine.”

In reporting on Kasko’s resignation, Reuters noted that Ukraine’s “failure to tackle endemic corruption” threatened the IMF’s $40 billion aid program for Ukraine. At the time, the IMF put a hold on $1.7 billion in aid that had been due to be released to Ukraine four months earlier.

“After President Poroshenko complained that Shokin was taking too long to clean up corruption even within the PGO itself, he asked for Shokin’s resignation,” the CRS report said. Shokin submitted his resignation in February 2016 and was removed a month later.

Michael McFaul, a former U.S. ambassador to Russia under President Barack Obama, on Sept. 20 tweeted that the “Obama administration policy (not just ‘Biden policy’) to push for this Ukrainian general prosecutor to go” was “a shared view in many capitals, multilateral lending institutions, and pro-democratic Ukrainian civil society.”

At the time, however, news organizations were also reporting that Biden’s anti-corruption message in Kyiv was being undermined by an appearance of a conflict of interest.

In May 2014, Hunter Biden became a board member for the Burisma Group, one of the biggest private gas companies in Ukraine. In a June 2014 article, the Associated Press called Biden’s hiring “politically awkward.”

“Hunter Biden’s employment means he will be working as a director and top lawyer for a Ukrainian energy company during the period when his father and others in the Obama administration attempt to influence the policies of Ukraine’s new government, especially on energy issues,” the AP wrote.

In December 2015, the Wall Street Journal reported that Mykola Zlochevsky, who ran Burisma, was under investigation by Ukrainian and British authorities for “alleged criminal wrongdoing,” and it quoted anti-corruption advocates in Ukraine who were concerned that Zlochevsky would be protected from prosecution because of Hunter Biden’s role with Burisma.

“If an investigator sees the son of the vice president of the United States is part of the management of a company … that investigator will be uncomfortable pushing the case forward,” Daria Kaleniuk, executive director of Ukraine’s Anti-Corruption Action Center, or AntAC, told the Wall Street Journal.

However, there is no evidence that Hunter Biden was ever under investigation or that his father pressured Ukraine to fire Shokin on his behalf.

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/09/trump ... d-ukraine/

Where is this proof of the "Western world" wanting Shokin fired? Shokin is on record as denying that claim. Says it's all America and Biden. History points more towards Shokin.

[Skjellyfetti]

Where is this proof of the "Western world" wanting Shokin fired? Shokin is on record as denying that claim. Says it's all America and Biden. History points more towards Shokin.

Bipartisan letter to Poroshenko from May 2016
Portman, Durbin, Shaheen, and Senate Ukraine Caucus Reaffirm Commitment to Help Ukraine Take on Corruption
https://www.portman.senate.gov/newsroom ... tment-help

From March 2016:

The United States and other Western nations had for months called for the ousting of Mr. Shokin, who was widely criticized for turning a blind eye to corrupt practices and for defending the interests of a venal and entrenched elite. He was one of several political figures in Kiev whom reformers and Western diplomats saw as a worrying indicator of a return to past corrupt practices, two years after a revolution that was supposed to put a stop to self-dealing by those in power.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/30/worl ... cutor.html

February 2016: IMF warns Ukraine it will halt $40bn bailout unless corruption stops
https://www.ft.com/content/44c1641e-cff ... f7778e7377

March 2016: EU hails sacking of Ukraine’s prosecutor Viktor Shokin
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/e ... -1.2591190

[CID1990]

-Hunter Biden’s company was under investigation for corruption by the Inspector Gen of Ukraine.
-VP Joe Biden told Pres of Ukraine $$$ would be withheld if Inspector Gen wasn’t fired.

Those are two issues separated by a chasm of nothing.

If the EU ambasassador or the Charge d'affaires / ambassador to Ukraine could testify that there was a link between the two points, I would agree. If there was any evidence linking the two, I would agree.

There isn't.



Most of the Western world wanted the prosecutor fired. EU. Republicans. Democrats. He was a holdover from Yanukovych's administration. It wasn't because he was too tough on corruption. It was quite the opposite - he was soft on corruption. If Biden fired him to save his son - it all but guaranteed a tougher prosecutor on corruption being appointed. And one was.

Shokin served as prosecutor general under Viktor Yanukovych, the former president of Ukraine who fled to Russia after he was removed from power in 2014 and was later found guilty of treason. Shokin remained in power after Yanukovych’s ouster, but he failed “to indict any major figures from the Yanukovych administration for corruption,” according to testimony John E. Herbst, a former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine under President George W. Bush, gave in March 2016 to a subcommittee of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

“By late fall of 2015, the EU and the United States joined the chorus of those seeking Mr. Shokin’s removal as the start of an overall reform of the Procurator General’s Office,” Herbst testified. “U.S. Vice President Joe Biden spoke publicly about this before and during his December visit to Kyiv; but Mr. Shokin remained in place.”

In early 2016, Deputy General Prosecutor Vitaliy Kasko resigned in protest of corruption within Shokin’s office. In a televised statement, Kasko said: “Today, the General Prosecutor’s office is a brake on the reform of criminal justice, a hotbed of corruption, an instrument of political pressure, one of the key obstacles to the arrival of foreign investment in Ukraine.”

In reporting on Kasko’s resignation, Reuters noted that Ukraine’s “failure to tackle endemic corruption” threatened the IMF’s $40 billion aid program for Ukraine. At the time, the IMF put a hold on $1.7 billion in aid that had been due to be released to Ukraine four months earlier.

“After President Poroshenko complained that Shokin was taking too long to clean up corruption even within the PGO itself, he asked for Shokin’s resignation,” the CRS report said. Shokin submitted his resignation in February 2016 and was removed a month later.

Michael McFaul, a former U.S. ambassador to Russia under President Barack Obama, on Sept. 20 tweeted that the “Obama administration policy (not just ‘Biden policy’) to push for this Ukrainian general prosecutor to go” was “a shared view in many capitals, multilateral lending institutions, and pro-democratic Ukrainian civil society.”

At the time, however, news organizations were also reporting that Biden’s anti-corruption message in Kyiv was being undermined by an appearance of a conflict of interest.

In May 2014, Hunter Biden became a board member for the Burisma Group, one of the biggest private gas companies in Ukraine. In a June 2014 article, the Associated Press called Biden’s hiring “politically awkward.”

“Hunter Biden’s employment means he will be working as a director and top lawyer for a Ukrainian energy company during the period when his father and others in the Obama administration attempt to influence the policies of Ukraine’s new government, especially on energy issues,” the AP wrote.

In December 2015, the Wall Street Journal reported that Mykola Zlochevsky, who ran Burisma, was under investigation by Ukrainian and British authorities for “alleged criminal wrongdoing,” and it quoted anti-corruption advocates in Ukraine who were concerned that Zlochevsky would be protected from prosecution because of Hunter Biden’s role with Burisma.

“If an investigator sees the son of the vice president of the United States is part of the management of a company … that investigator will be uncomfortable pushing the case forward,” Daria Kaleniuk, executive director of Ukraine’s Anti-Corruption Action Center, or AntAC, told the Wall Street Journal.

However, there is no evidence that Hunter Biden was ever under investigation or that his father pressured Ukraine to fire Shokin on his behalf.

In May, Lutsenko, then-Ukraine’s prosecutor general, told Bloomberg News: “Hunter Biden did not violate any Ukrainian laws — at least as of now, we do not see any wrongdoing.”

Lutsenko told Bloomberg that the prosecutor general’s office in 2014 — before Shokin took office — opened a corruption investigation against Zlochevsky and numerous others. He said the probe’s focus was Serghi Kurchenko, who owned a number of gas companies, and a transaction that occurred in November 2013, months before Biden joined Burisma.

On Jan. 13, 2017, Burisma announced that “all legal proceedings and pending criminal allegations against its President Mykola Zlochevsky and operating companies of Burisma Group have been closed.” Hunter Biden told the New York Times that he left Burisma’s board earlier this year when his term expired.

On “Fox News Sunday,” host John Roberts challenged Giuliani, Trump’s private attorney, on the facts of the case in a Sept. 22 interview. Roberts noted that “other countries in the West were saying [Shokin] needs to go as well,” not just Joe Biden. Giuliani responded, “What does it matter, if the — if the son is under investigation? He didn’t disclose that.”

But there was no evidence at the time that Hunter Biden was under investigation, and there still isn’t.

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/09/trump ... d-ukraine/

Boy you sure do sound like the Trumpers minimizing Trump

BTW you need to focus, Reek... your burning desire for a win is clouding things for you

I’m not defending Trump

I’m pointing out you defending Biden


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[Skjellyfetti]

I'm trying to elucidate the difference between the two theories. One is backed by evidence. The other isn't.

Does anyone have evidence that Biden pressuring Ukraine to fire Shokin had anything to do with his son?

We do have evidence the Trump administration pressured Ukraine to announce an investigation of Burisma and Biden.

[CID1990]

I'm trying to elucidate the difference between the two theories. One is backed by evidence. The other isn't.

Does anyone have evidence that Biden pressuring Ukraine to fire Shokin had anything to do with his son?

We do have evidence the Trump administration pressured Ukraine to announce an investigation of Burisma and Biden.

]



You know what? Maybe you're right - maybe Biden had no idea that the focus of the Ukrainian AG on a company that was paying his son around 50K PER MONTH (because Hunter's just so talented) was a potential problem.

Your ability to distinguish between evidence or a lack thereof sure has "evolved" since your Russia thread disaster...



I'm not sure why you are so triggered by someone pointing out obvious shenanigans about the Bidens... you should spend your time focusing on how the impeachment is about to blow up

[Skjellyfetti]

You know what? Maybe you're right - maybe Biden had no idea that the focus of the Ukrainian AG on a company that was paying his son around 50K PER MONTH (because Hunter's just so talented) was a potential problem.

I have no problem with that. It was a problem and it still is a problem for Biden. Fuck Hunter Biden and every other grifter.

But, yeah - I'm going to pushback on the Trump-Ukraine quid pro quo having the same evidence as the Biden-Ukraine quid-pro-quo. Not because I like Biden. But, because it minimizes this story...

[SeattleGriz]

Bill Taylor's source there was a quid quo pro? He read it in the New York Times.