2022 Elections Thread

[kalm]

Show me where in their own words either have advocated for complete government control of the means of production and distribution.

We have a mixed economy and a large population. The argument should be the degree of socialized programs. Every large country has them including ours which many Republicans take full and willing advantage of. Big oil? Bunch of socialists. Big Ag? Commies.

There has to be right wing capitalist safe place out there for you somewhere. Or at least a fainting couch.

Bernie is a socialist. It's literally in the name of his ideological belief. Warren is a little more subtle but the clues/proof that she is a socialist are significantly stronger than the clues/proof that trump is a fascist but you'll regurgitate that argument every chance you get.

I am willing to sit down and debate what social welfare programs we should have, how much we should spend on them and how long they should be available.

I don't consider myself right wing and I don't need a safe place or a fainting couch. You're just upset that you've lost all claim to your post-partisan title.

Right…like I’ve said before, labels are tricky. Sanders uses the nordics and Canada as examples of his economic positions.

Fascism is an economic model that also uses the state, and through authoritarian means, corporatism, and nationalism to to breach its objectives. There are similarities and differences between the two.

One could say Trump is as much a neo-fascist as Bernie is a neo-socialist. They strongly part ways at democracy, worker rights, and social programs like welfare and universal medicine.

[kalm]

Bernie is a socialist. It's literally in the name of his ideological belief. Warren is a little more subtle but the clues/proof that she is a socialist are significantly stronger than the clues/proof that trump is a fascist but you'll regurgitate that argument every chance you get.

I am willing to sit down and debate what social welfare programs we should have, how much we should spend on them and how long they should be available.

I don't consider myself right wing and I don't need a safe place or a fainting couch. You're just upset that you've lost all claim to your post-partisan title.

Social programs <> socialism

Thank you.

[houndawg]

I'd pay to see him debate Herschel Walker

[BDKJMU]

Um uh uh well uh..

[kalm]

Speaking from experience, putting in the work is noble. Gotcha remarks against someone facing it? Not so much.

[GannonFan]

Speaking from experience, putting in the work is noble. Gotcha remarks against someone facing it? Not so much.

I read all his tweets. Nothing wrong with saying Biden is senile. He is senile. That's not a political attack when it's blatantly obvious and it does bring into question the fitness for office. Same goes for Fetterman. If he's not fit for office mentally, then that's an issue. On a personal level you certainly admire his efforts to come back from the stroke and from the obvious impacts it had on him, and personally you hope that he is successful. But what you hope for personally for a person is different than if the person can function in the job for which they're seeking election. Personal health matters when seeking public office.

Oh, and how is "gotcha" remarks when watching someone speak any worse political fodder than calling someone a "puppy killer" without the facts to back that up (might be true, I don't know, but I'm sure the author of the tweet thread doesn't know either but he's going with it regardless). Political elections are messy, and nasty, especially when the two candidates in the election are both significantly flawed.

[kalm]

Speaking from experience, putting in the work is noble. Gotcha remarks against someone facing it? Not so much.

I read all his tweets. Nothing wrong with saying Biden is senile. He is senile. That's not a political attack when it's blatantly obvious and it does bring into question the fitness for office. Same goes for Fetterman. If he's not fit for office mentally, then that's an issue. On a personal level you certainly admire his efforts to come back from the stroke and from the obvious impacts it had on him, and personally you hope that he is successful. But what you hope for personally for a person is different than if the person can function in the job for which they're seeking election. Personal health matters when seeking public office.

Oh, and how is "gotcha" remarks when watching someone speak any worse political fodder than calling someone a "puppy killer" without the facts to back that up (might be true, I don't know, but I'm sure the author of the tweet thread doesn't know either but he's going with it regardless). Political elections are messy, and nasty, especially when the two candidates in the election are both significantly flawed.

So exactly what are you disagreeing with in my statement? And surely you see the difference between having a stroke and killing puppies?

There are many people with various speech issues. Beyond stammering, is there evidence of irrecoverable cognitive decline that would affect the ability to leave? Should we throw dirt on everyone who’s had a stroke, experienced aphasia, or stutters?

[GannonFan]

I read all his tweets. Nothing wrong with saying Biden is senile. He is senile. That's not a political attack when it's blatantly obvious and it does bring into question the fitness for office. Same goes for Fetterman. If he's not fit for office mentally, then that's an issue. On a personal level you certainly admire his efforts to come back from the stroke and from the obvious impacts it had on him, and personally you hope that he is successful. But what you hope for personally for a person is different than if the person can function in the job for which they're seeking election. Personal health matters when seeking public office.

Oh, and how is "gotcha" remarks when watching someone speak any worse political fodder than calling someone a "puppy killer" without the facts to back that up (might be true, I don't know, but I'm sure the author of the tweet thread doesn't know either but he's going with it regardless). Political elections are messy, and nasty, especially when the two candidates in the election are both significantly flawed.

So exactly what are you disagreeing with in my statement? And surely you see the difference between having a stroke and killing puppies?

There are many people with various speech issues. Beyond stammering, is there evidence of irrecoverable cognitive decline that would affect the ability to leave? Should we throw dirt on everyone who’s had a stroke, experienced aphasia, or stutters?

And surely you see the similarity of speculating what extent a person may be impacted by a stroke (i.e. lack of facts) and blasting a sensational, but unconfirmed story about killing puppies (i.e. again, lack of facts). Then again, maybe you don't, your constant efforts to claim post-partisan keep getting in the way of your actual partisanship.

I have experience with stuttering, it's something I've had my whole life. I can say then that stuttering and strokes are not the same. A speech impediment has nothing to do with decreased or diminished cognitive ability, which can happen in strokes. In addition, a speech impediment isn't a health-related event, as strokes are, and doesn't increase the chance of having another stroke, as stroke victims are at high risk of. Strokes and aphasias are related to actual brain injuries, stuttering isn't at all. And no one is advocating for throwing dirt on people who have suffered brain injuries from a stroke or who may be suffering aphasia. But it is certainly reasonable to assess whether they can functionally handle the rigors of the job, and whether they have the cognitive ability to perform the job. Not every stroke is the same and it's not always an untouched mind trapped in a malfunctioning or difficult to control body.

[kalm]

So exactly what are you disagreeing with in my statement? And surely you see the difference between having a stroke and killing puppies?

There are many people with various speech issues. Beyond stammering, is there evidence of irrecoverable cognitive decline that would affect the ability to leave? Should we throw dirt on everyone who’s had a stroke, experienced aphasia, or stutters?

And surely you see the similarity of speculating what extent a person may be impacted by a stroke (i.e. lack of facts) and blasting a sensational, but unconfirmed story about killing puppies (i.e. again, lack of facts). Then again, maybe you don't, your constant efforts to claim post-partisan keep getting in the way of your actual partisanship.

I have experience with stuttering, it's something I've had my whole life. I can say then that stuttering and strokes are not the same. A speech impediment has nothing to do with decreased or diminished cognitive ability, which can happen in strokes. In addition, a speech impediment isn't a health-related event, as strokes are, and doesn't increase the chance of having another stroke, as stroke victims are at high risk of. Strokes and aphasias are related to actual brain injuries, stuttering isn't at all. And no one is advocating for throwing dirt on people who have suffered brain injuries from a stroke or who may be suffering aphasia. But it is certainly reasonable to assess whether they can functionally handle the rigors of the job, and whether they have the cognitive ability to perform the job. Not every stroke is the same and it's not always an untouched mind trapped in a malfunctioning or difficult to control body.

The Oz story has legs and has been around for quite some time.

My son has a lisp. My mom suffered a massive stroke at age 41, recovered from it and returned to her career. She later experienced aphasia from what later ended up being Bulbar ALS. After she had completely lost her ability to speak in 2017 and required a dry erase board to communicate, she was given cognitive testing for admittance to a skilled nursing facility. The typical questions…what year were you born? Who’s the president of the US?

Her answer to that 2nd one was hastily (and quite gleefully) written: “A 7 year old child”.

We both know there’s a spectrum to cognitive impairment and speech. One doesn’t necessarily imply the other. Nor does it mean that cognition (if there are issues) or speech can’t be regained.

That’s the point.

[JohnStOnge]

For those who think that there is some indication of a big trend where Hispanics are turning Republican:

I predict that, whatever the result among Hispanics is with respect to the mid terms, it will be within the range of what has happened during the history of exit polling. If you got to https://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages ... lls.0.html you can see the results of the overall House elections in 2004. Democrats won among Hispanics (Latinos) by "only" 11 percentage points during that year.

Right now it's looking like Democrats are going to win by something like 20 percentage points among Hispanics. If people try to say that is an unprecedented thing that is beyond the range of what is happened historically, they will be wrong.

[UNI88]

A GOP gov in liberal Oregon? Dems sound alarm on ‘spoiler’

But with an unusually competitive three-way contest for governor, the Democratic candidate’s success is hardly a guarantee this year. As mail-in ballots become available to voters next week, Oregon is becoming the unlikely site of one of the most competitive governor’s races in the country.

The main reason for the race’s unpredictability is Betsy Johnson, a longtime former Democratic lawmaker with a fondness for salty language who is aiming to become the first unaffiliated governor elected in Oregon in almost a century.

[Pwns]

Watching the Walker-Warnock debate. Walker (not surprisingly) isn't a good debater but what's sad is he's still better than that robot Kelly Loeffler was.

[kalm]

Eat better, get off insulin, give everyone a congressional healthcare plan vs. a government plan, join the FBI…

That’s how you do it…that’s how you debate!

[kalm]

McMullin seems like a reasonable dude. It’s within the margin of error.

A McMullin victory would constitute a tsunami in electoral politics, challenging Trump’s grip on the party and requiring a new calculation for Republicans. To date, Republicans in comfortable districts and seats have worried only about a challenge from the right — from a more Trump-loyal Republican. McMullin’s candidacy forces them to consider: Will my Trump sycophancy cost me in the general election?
If McMullin wins or does better than any Democratic candidate would against an incumbent Republican in Utah, why not try the same approach in Missouri, Florida or Texas? A united-front strategy could work in House districts as well as state legislative or statewide races.
Story continues below advertisement

Third-party candidates are traditionally disfavored in American politics not only because of barriers to qualification for the ballot. Many voters don’t want to “risk” voting for a third-party candidate if they think they would be helping a major party candidate (a Democrat in Utah, for example) whom they really don’t want to win. But McMullin is redefining the alternative to the Republican Party: A center-right candidate who can attract Democrats, Republicans and independents.

That tactic might be the single-most effective way to pressure the GOP to step away from MAGA extremism (other than cycle after cycle of blistering defeats). Indeed, anyone concerned about the MAGA threat to democracy should be backing McMullin. Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-Ill.) has endorsed McMullin. What about Rep. Liz Cheney (R-Wyo.) or former Republican senators?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... DSpxOFhiRA

[UNI88]

McMullin seems like a reasonable dude. It’s within the margin of error.

A McMullin victory would constitute a tsunami in electoral politics, challenging Trump’s grip on the party and requiring a new calculation for Republicans. To date, Republicans in comfortable districts and seats have worried only about a challenge from the right — from a more Trump-loyal Republican. McMullin’s candidacy forces them to consider: Will my Trump sycophancy cost me in the general election?
If McMullin wins or does better than any Democratic candidate would against an incumbent Republican in Utah, why not try the same approach in Missouri, Florida or Texas? A united-front strategy could work in House districts as well as state legislative or statewide races.
Story continues below advertisement

Third-party candidates are traditionally disfavored in American politics not only because of barriers to qualification for the ballot. Many voters don’t want to “risk” voting for a third-party candidate if they think they would be helping a major party candidate (a Democrat in Utah, for example) whom they really don’t want to win. But McMullin is redefining the alternative to the Republican Party: A center-right candidate who can attract Democrats, Republicans and independents.

That tactic might be the single-most effective way to pressure the GOP to step away from MAGA extremism (other than cycle after cycle of blistering defeats). Indeed, anyone concerned about the MAGA threat to democracy should be backing McMullin. Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-Ill.) has endorsed McMullin. What about Rep. Liz Cheney (R-Wyo.) or former Republican senators?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... DSpxOFhiRA

Maybe the same thing could be used to get the progressive extremists out of Congress. Imagine pro-democracy Democrats voting for a moderate instead of AOChe in NY.

It might work for the Oregon Governor's office. Hopefully, pro-democracy Democrats will vote for Johnson rather than Kotek.

[BDKJMU]

[BDKJMU]

[houndawg]

I say let him and Herschel debate

[Winterborn]

Digest at your leisure.

Not much good news in it if you are a D. And some surprising results when comparing Trump to Biden. Also not surprised to see where DeSantis is ranked McConnell and Pelosi being tied in net popularity is funny (-22).

Womans rights (i.e. abortion) is 5th (17%) on the top issue list behind: Prices increases/Inflation (37%), Economy/jobs (29%), Immigration (23%), and Crime/drugs. January 6th is 19th at 7%.

According to the poll R's top focus is: Immigration (37%), Price Increases/inflation (24%), Economy/jobs (21%), taxes (17%), guns (17%), National Debt (16%). D's top focuses are: January 6th (27%), Women's Rights (25%), Environment/climate change (23%), Guns (21%), economy/Jobs (15%), Voting Rights (14%).

Congressional (Generic) horserace even along party lines. Inflation, crime, immigration and abortion are top self-stated voter issues. On the top 3 (Inflation, crime, immigration) voters are more likely to vote R on, followed by D on abortion.

Also interesting is that 55% say that they have doubt about Biden's fitness and 68% say he is too old.

https://harvardharrispoll.com/key-results-october-3/

[kalm]

Digest at your leisure.

Not much good news in it if you are a D. And some surprising results when comparing Trump to Biden. Also not surprised to see where DeSantis is ranked McConnell and Pelosi being tied in net popularity is funny (-22).

Womans rights (i.e. abortion) is 5th (17%) on the top issue list behind: Prices increases/Inflation (37%), Economy/jobs (29%), Immigration (23%), and Crime/drugs. January 6th is 19th at 7%.

According to the poll R's top focus is: Immigration (37%), Price Increases/inflation (24%), Economy/jobs (21%), taxes (17%), guns (17%), National Debt (16%). D's top focuses are: January 6th (27%), Women's Rights (25%), Environment/climate change (23%), Guns (21%), economy/Jobs (15%), Voting Rights (14%).

Congressional (Generic) horserace even along party lines. Inflation, crime, immigration and abortion are top self-stated voter issues. On the top 3 (Inflation, crime, immigration) voters are more likely to vote R on, followed by D on abortion.

Also interesting is that 55% say that they have doubt about Biden's fitness and 68% say he is too old.

https://harvardharrispoll.com/key-results-october-3/

I don’t think it’s good news if you’re an average American. If this holds it will cement the GOP as the party of Trump. At least until/unless an R full on attacks him.

[BDKJMU]

Should have started a Fetterman gafs and verbal bungles thread. He‘s worse than Biden..

[Winterborn]

Digest at your leisure.

Not much good news in it if you are a D. And some surprising results when comparing Trump to Biden. Also not surprised to see where DeSantis is ranked McConnell and Pelosi being tied in net popularity is funny (-22).

Womans rights (i.e. abortion) is 5th (17%) on the top issue list behind: Prices increases/Inflation (37%), Economy/jobs (29%), Immigration (23%), and Crime/drugs. January 6th is 19th at 7%.

According to the poll R's top focus is: Immigration (37%), Price Increases/inflation (24%), Economy/jobs (21%), taxes (17%), guns (17%), National Debt (16%). D's top focuses are: January 6th (27%), Women's Rights (25%), Environment/climate change (23%), Guns (21%), economy/Jobs (15%), Voting Rights (14%).

Congressional (Generic) horserace even along party lines. Inflation, crime, immigration and abortion are top self-stated voter issues. On the top 3 (Inflation, crime, immigration) voters are more likely to vote R on, followed by D on abortion.

Also interesting is that 55% say that they have doubt about Biden's fitness and 68% say he is too old.

https://harvardharrispoll.com/key-results-october-3/

I don’t think it’s good news if you’re an average American. If this holds it will cement the GOP as the party of Trump. At least until/unless an R full on attacks him.

Or it just shows how bad Biden is being perceived at doing his job.

People know where they stand with Trump, love, hate, or tolerate, he is at least consistent in polling. Biden's bottom seems to be right around that 39 or 40% mark.

Some of the other trends are interesting, especially related to the energy policy and climate.

[kalm]

I don’t think it’s good news if you’re an average American. If this holds it will cement the GOP as the party of Trump. At least until/unless an R full on attacks him.

Or it just shows how bad Biden is being perceived at doing his job.

People know where they stand with Trump, love, hate, or tolerate, he is at least consistent in polling. Biden's bottom seems to be right around that 39 or 40% mark.

Some of the other trends are interesting, especially related to the energy policy and climate.

Yes…although it’s almost always thus with incumbents and mid-terms.

It also shows how short sighted and selfish voters continue to be along with a failure to address working class issues or sell solutions.

It was ‘88 degrees in Seattle yesterday. The R’s have seemingly little to offer in economic improvements other than see how bad things are and here’s some more tax cuts to at the top.

The good old days and negativity are easier to pitch than needed change and actual ideas.

Oh well.

[kalm]

I don’t think it’s good news if you’re an average American. If this holds it will cement the GOP as the party of Trump. At least until/unless an R full on attacks him.

Or it just shows how bad Biden is being perceived at doing his job.

People know where they stand with Trump, love, hate, or tolerate, he is at least consistent in polling. Biden's bottom seems to be right around that 39 or 40% mark.

Some of the other trends are interesting, especially related to the energy policy and climate.

Further fire…

[Winterborn]

Or it just shows how bad Biden is being perceived at doing his job.

People know where they stand with Trump, love, hate, or tolerate, he is at least consistent in polling. Biden's bottom seems to be right around that 39 or 40% mark.

Some of the other trends are interesting, especially related to the energy policy and climate.

Yes…although it’s almost always thus with incumbents and mid-terms.

It also shows how short sighted and selfish voters continue to be along with a failure to address working class issues or sell solutions.

It was ‘88 degrees in Seattle yesterday. The R’s have seemingly little to offer in economic improvements other than see how bad things are and here’s some more tax cuts to at the top.

The good old days and negativity are easier to pitch than needed change and actual ideas.

Oh well.

That it is. At least the incumbent historical trend is staying the same.

I guess i am confused by what you mean when you mean by "short sighted"? If you mean not considering the long term consequences of certain policy's, I would tactically agree, but based on the Harvard/Harris poll I linked to above, it seems that between 50 and 60% of voters are finally looking at the longer term consequences of at least some of the recent policies put forth by the last two administrations. That is assuming the trend stays the same and people don't forget when times get good again (something I am very skeptical about). But I will take a bit of good news, even if temporary.

My views on anthropological climate change are pretty well known on this board (at least that is what I think you are referring to with the 88°F comment). And i will always support a mixed approach (free market, green, and traditional energy policy). While the R's are not perfect (I think they are too set on traditional energy) but they are light years ahead of the D's who are go "green" no matter what. Which will set us back about 50+ years on a quality of life standard due to certain industries and business cratering. Both sides play the tax cut game very well and neither is good at cutting spending. Which is something we can agree on.

As for negativity, I guess I see it a different way. Of the ads I have seen (very few I will admit) and dug up (candidate research), the crime and economic ones are pretty close to the truth (there is some spin but not as much as I was expecting). The personal attacks and family snipes have no place in a campaign but then again politicians give lawyers a good name. Not condoning it, but it has been going on since time immortal. There is no high road in politics and never has been one. (which is why nobody has to worry about me going to the dark side and being a politician )

We do not live in a kumbaya world and never will. No amount of regulation will change that. Best thing to do, IMHO, is give individuals the freedom to succeed or fail on their own and live their life as free as possible for government interference.