'Bout Time For A "Religion Sucks" Thread, Ain't It?

[JoltinJoe]

Funny you should say that, because many scientists believe that the Hadron Collider will eventually demonstrate the existence of dimensions imperceptible to the human senses. Note that Christian philosophers and theologians, and their philsophical forbearers, like the Platonists and Neoplatonists, have argued for many, many centuries that there are imperceptible realities which we do not tangibly experience through our human senses.

The religious outlook which you reject is some grammar school version of faith. That you apparently do not grasp that the existence of religious faith, on a mature level, reflects some greater "evolution" of personhood causes you to view all people of faith as unthinking rubes -- when it is, in fact, you who needs to catch up.

I am CERTAIN that there are things which are real which cannot be seen, heard, felt, smelt, or tasted. Said another way, not all which is real can be perceived through our five senses. In fact, from a rationalist's perspective, there is no reason to believe that all which is real can be experienced in one of five ways.

And I'm sure it will prove the infallibility of the Pope, too.

Why don't you explain what YOU understand the "infallibility" of the Pope to entail?

[Grizalltheway]

And I'm sure it will prove the infallibility of the Pope, too.

Why don't you explain what YOU understand the "infallibility" of the Pope to entail?

Houndawg said the collider is the bible of today, and it seemed to me you were implying that it would somehow legitimize the archaic beliefs of the church, rather than give mankind new knowledge as to how the universe works. If that isn't what you were implying, my bad.

[Chizzang]

Why don't you explain what YOU understand the "infallibility" of the Pope to entail?

Houndawg said the collider is the bible of today, and it seemed to me you were implying that it would somehow legitimize the archaic beliefs of the church, rather than give mankind new knowledge as to how the universe works. If that isn't what you were implying, my bad.

Here I'll clear this up quickly...

1) The pope is a man - flesh and blood - like any and every man who's walked this earth before him - just a man who's Religious organization has bestowed a position of power upon...That's not Good that's not Bad it just is...

2) The Bible is a book - written by men... men with the same flaws we all have... such as dishonesty deceit and ego....

3) The CERN Collider is a machine - which is serving as a tool for discovery - based in particle physics / it may provide no significance or enlightenment in historical context (as yet unknown)

NONE of these three things are related - directly
or
ALL of these things are related - indirectly

That is the beauty of this world

[Cap'n Cat]

I worship the Sun. It's the only giver of life that is tangible.

[D1B]

"Evolving" is the key word Joe. Where once we walked or rode donkeys, now we drive cars and fly. Cosmology has moved many orders of magnitude beyond the Bible in the attempt to understand the nature of what is. The Bible of today is CERN's Large Hadron Collider. Stay tuned for new Revelations. Or if you prefer, keep riding the donkey.

Funny you should say that, because many scientists believe that the Hadron Collider will eventually demonstrate the existence of dimensions imperceptible to the human senses. Note that Christian philosophers and theologians, and their philsophical forbearers, like the Platonists and Neoplatonists, have argued for many, many centuries that there are imperceptible realities which we do not tangibly experience through our human senses.

The religious outlook which you reject is some grammar school version of faith. That you apparently do not grasp that the existence of religious faith, on a mature level, reflects some greater "evolution" of personhood causes you to view all people of faith as unthinking rubes -- when it is, in fact, you who needs to catch up.

I am CERTAIN that there are things which are real which cannot be seen, heard, felt, smelt, or tasted. Said another way, not all which is real can be perceived through our five senses. In fact, from a rationalist's perspective, there is no reason to believe that all which is real can be experienced in one of five ways.

Joe, what about the grammer school version of faith you and your poor family participate in every sunday-
the cannibilism, the constant referencing to the bible that you reject as folklore?

[Screamin_Eagle174]

I worship the Sun. It's the only giver of life that is tangible.

Yeah, uh huh. I dare you to touch the fucking sun.

[Grizalltheway]

I worship the Sun. It's the only giver of life that is tangible.

Yeah, uh huh. I dare you to touch the fucking sun.

Tangible doesn't necessarily mean touchable.

[Chizzang]

Yeah, uh huh. I dare you to touch the fucking sun.

Tangible doesn't necessarily mean touchable.

not according to strict doctrine

[Ibanez]

I get that.

My issue with the bible is that if it is 100% accurate word for word, than we must accept that incest, murder, vengence,rape and adultry(clearly David wasn't punished) and hatred for other people and a list of more atrocities are acceptable.

Why would a loving, omnipotent, omniscent god test you?

When saying that the Bible is "accurate word for word," you have to keep in mind that the Bible is a book of collected writings, compiled over a period of thousands of years. As the writings are compliled, the writers reflect on prior scripture, and try to place into context their own modern experiences.

Every discipline grows and expands over time. Philosophers react to prior philosophy and continue to expand and grow by adapting prior throught to modern experience. Scientists grow and expand our knowledge of science by testing prior concepts against modern experiences.

Every discipline evolves into greater understanding over time; so why do we insist that theology must remain constant? Shouldn't our understanding of "What Is" become more refined and nuanced over time?

While the Bible is the inspired revelation of God, as revealed to man, no one story in the Bible stands on its own. The mistake is to assume that any one story is the inspired, accurate word of God. Each story occurs in the greater context of the Bible, which is the accurate and inspired word of God when read in its entirety, with each writing in context, and with each writing seen as interrelated part of a whole or greater truth.

"inspired word of God". Dave Matthews was inspired by weed to write some crazy stuff. I AM HEREBY ESTABLISHING THE CHURCH OF THE TRIPPING BILLIES!

[Ibanez]

And I'm sure it will prove the infallibility of the Pope, too.

Why don't you explain what YOU understand the "infallibility" of the Pope to entail?

According to the Roman Catholic Church the Pope is infallible when speaking of Faith and Moral matters. Dogma.

[Ibanez]

I worship the Sun. It's the only giver of life that is tangible.

Yeah, uh huh. I dare you to touch the fucking sun.

I dare you to touch Jesus, and not the Jesus that Father McYankmyWank wants you to touch.

[D1B]

"Evolving" is the key word Joe. Where once we walked or rode donkeys, now we drive cars and fly. Cosmology has moved many orders of magnitude beyond the Bible in the attempt to understand the nature of what is. The Bible of today is CERN's Large Hadron Collider. Stay tuned for new Revelations. Or if you prefer, keep riding the donkey.

Funny you should say that, because many scientists believe that the Hadron Collider will eventually demonstrate the existence of dimensions imperceptible to the human senses. Note that Christian philosophers and theologians, and their philsophical forbearers, like the Platonists and Neoplatonists, have argued for many, many centuries that there are imperceptible realities which we do not tangibly experience through our human senses.

The religious outlook which you reject is some grammar school version of faith. That you apparently do not grasp that the existence of religious faith, on a mature level, reflects some greater "evolution" of personhood causes you to view all people of faith as unthinking rubes -- when it is, in fact, you who needs to catch up.

I am CERTAIN that there are things which are real which cannot be seen, heard, felt, smelt, or tasted. Said another way, not all which is real can be perceived through our five senses. In fact, from a rationalist's perspective, there is no reason to believe that all which is real can be experienced in one of five ways.

Couple things Joe:

Can you cite a scientist or two to back up your statement about imperceptable dimensions. Not saying your wrong here but give us an example.

Also, eating the flesh and drinking the blood of the son of deity, but who actually is a deity himself along with a ghost, and kneeling and praying to various saints and confessing your sins to eunichs and pedophiles - is all this what you would call "existentence of religious faith on a mature level"?

[JoltinJoe]

Can you cite a scientist or two to back up your statement about imperceptable dimensions. Not saying your wrong here but give us an example.

http://www.universetoday.com/2008/02/04 ... dimension/

When you get the chance, you should read up on the String Theory, a branch of theoretical physics. In my mind, it is fascinating that science may be on the verge of proving the existence of an imperceptible dimension since this idea has been suggested for centuries by various philosophers and theologians.

[Wedgebuster]

I got 20/20 and everyone else wears bifocals.

[Chizzang]

I got 20/20 and everyone else wears bifocals.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

The Church is Linus, Christianity is the Great Pumpkin, and Christians are poor Sally who missed out on Halloween.

[D1B]

Can you cite a scientist or two to back up your statement about imperceptable dimensions. Not saying your wrong here but give us an example.

http://www.universetoday.com/2008/02/04 ... dimension/

When you get the chance, you should read up on the String Theory, a branch of theoretical physics. In my mind, it is fascinating that science may be on the verge of proving the existence of an imperceptible dimension since this idea has been suggested for centuries by various philosophers and theologians.

I saw the PBS special on String Theory, you're right - utterly amazing stuff.

As far as its theological/philosophical orgins, I pretty sure the Eastern/Asian mystics beat the Greeks by hundreds, if not a thousand or more years.

You're right, there are amazing parallels between some religous thought and physics, particularly subatomic physics.

[clenz]

I worship the Sun. It's the only giver of life that is tangible.

There are things that live with no aide from the sun. I would think that oxygen and water would be the giver of life....

[D1B]

I worship the Sun. It's the only giver of life that is tangible.

There are things that live with no aide from the sun. I would think that oxygen and water would be the giver of life....

Clenz, the Captain and I are staying at your place on Saturday night. Make sure you have plenty of beer, food and porn for us. Oh, beds too. If you and TBH have to get a hotel for the night to make room for us, make sure you leave a key in the mailbox.

Thanks, man.

[MSUDuo]

Just thought I would laugh at the guy who brought Genesis 1 into question and the subject of God creating light before He created the sun and stars. So....Because we don't/can't comprehend light without the sun, that makes God a moron and the Bible a bunch of BS from the beginning? Considering God spoke and it was, He can create light without a sun.

[Chizzang]

http://www.universetoday.com/2008/02/04 ... dimension/

When you get the chance, you should read up on the String Theory, a branch of theoretical physics. In my mind, it is fascinating that science may be on the verge of proving the existence of an imperceptible dimension since this idea has been suggested for centuries by various philosophers and theologians.

I saw the PBS special on String Theory, you're right - utterly amazing stuff.

As far as its theological/philosophical orgins, I pretty sure the Eastern/Asian mystics beat the Greeks by hundreds, if not a thousand or more years.

You're right, there are amazing parallels between some religous thought and physics, particularly subatomic physics.

Physics isn't about sinners and saints
Physics isn't about Heaven and Hell
Physics isn't about an eternal afterlife

The core of physics is based on a unified symmetry: The Nature of Space Time & Matter

This triangle is the building blocks for quantum theory and special relativity... a mastery of The characteristics of Matter - The Nature of Space = Physical Law

Unification is the next step... The CERN project strives to close the unification loop

All of this has nothing to do with man's perception of Good and Evil or things as small and meaningless as what ones philosophy on afterlife is... That's crap to be argued by Televangelists

CERN is a genuine search for truth and "What is"...
We're moving baby steps away from myth and legend one day at a time
But it's not an attempt to Refute anything - it's about the search for truth - not disproving anything

There is nothing for anybody to be fearful of...

[Grizalltheway]

There are things that live with no aide from the sun. I would think that oxygen and water would be the giver of life....

Clenz, the Captain and I are staying at your place on Saturday night. Make sure you have plenty of beer, food and porn for us. Oh, beds too. If you and TBH have to get a hotel for the night to make room for us, make sure you leave a key in the mailbox.

Thanks, man.

Jesus, I just pissed myself laughing.

[mainejeff]

My contribution:

Religion Sucks.

[Quote Man]

Religion Sucks.:

"Man formed God with the image of good, and man followed God with the image in the mirror."

[D1B]

Just thought I would laugh at the guy who brought Genesis 1 into question and the subject of God creating light before He created the sun and stars. So....Because we don't/can't comprehend light without the sun, that makes God a moron and the Bible a bunch of BS from the beginning? Considering God spoke and it was, He can create light without a sun.

Dude, the god portrayed in the bible is utterly impossible. The reference to the light absurdity is one of hundreds that appear in Genesis. Genesis is an awefully good read, but it is what it is - one of thousands of man made myths to explain our beginnnings. BTW, according to your logic, your god also created evil and suffering.


Joltin Joe is right, the god or life force described by our philosophic forebearers, especially the eastern mystics, makes much more sense to us humans.