Coronavirus COVID-19

[SDHornet]

Make sure you tell your un-vaxxed employees and coworkers to stay away from public places.

That’s your choice as a parent. Just be prepared to stay home a lot until this wave blows over.

Your turn.

Not too worried. All this is just as enforceable as the mask mandates...hence the push for digital vax passports.

It's all about control folks like you and Ganny is totally on board with "safety" at the expense of freedom.

[SDHornet]

I don't care what the DNC thinks. I will never agree to vaccine mandates for everyone. But I have no problem with places like schools and hospitals and public transportation and international travel and restaurants and gyms and other locations requiring vaccinations to use those facilities. You make a choice if you want to use those places or if you want to stay unvaccinated. Your call.

And just because you have a magical 8 year window before you deem a vaccination to be safe doesn't mean that others have to abide by your 8 year window. We didn't do that before with other vaccines so I don't see why this one needs such special protection.

If a private business wants to mandate proof of vaccine or negative test for their customers that is their right.. But govt has no business telling private businesses like restaurants, bars, gyms, private schools, pro sports teams, etc, that they have to mandate it for their customers.

Yup.

[SDHornet]

Okay. Are Texas and Florida being hit hard right now? That might explain the news focus. I'm paying more attention to how things are going locally, so haven't tried to keep up nationally.

Florida deaths per million is going up faster than most states right now. California isn't in the top 25, actually #36.

We stopped counting once the recall became an issue for Newsom.

[SDHornet]

A number of the States near the top of the list got hit before the country really had come to grips with what was going on. They got hit first. Like New York. Yes. Things were very bad there in the beginning. But now things are much worse in Florida and Texas. As of now, if you use the Worldometers site, you calculate that during August to date there have been 22 COVID-19 deaths per million population in New York vs. 87 in Texas and a whopping 166 in Florida.

And it's happening in the context of a situation in which the Governor's of Texas and Florida are obviously acting like complete idiots. Texas and Florida don't have the legitimate "excuse" of having been blindsided like New York was. Texas and Florida just have an obvious "Party of Stupid" problem.

I believe this is their seasonal surge...and Delta. Both had spikes starting in June last year as well.

There was a reason for the spike last June. For some reason I can't remember what it was though...

[Ibanez]

Then why the liability removal? Why the dual approach now that Pfizer has been “approved”?

Saw that this "approval" was just an extension of their emergency use status. Not sure if true.

And yes, good point on the liability removal.

The liability has been law since the 80s so it’s nothing new. It’s not as if it was created specifically for the COVID-19 vaccine. At one point is also covered any serious side effects from Viagra.


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[SDHornet]

Saw that this "approval" was just an extension of their emergency use status. Not sure if true.

And yes, good point on the liability removal.

The liability has been law since the 80s so it’s nothing new. It’s not as if it was created specifically for the COVID-19 vaccine. At one point is also covered any serious side effects from Viagra.


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Pfizer has a squeaky clean record so I'm sure everything with this vax is all good.

[JohnStOnge]

That’s your choice as a parent. Just be prepared to stay home a lot until this wave blows over.

Your turn.

Not too worried. All this is just as enforceable as the mask mandates...hence the push for digital vax passports.

It's all about control folks like you and Ganny is totally on board with "safety" at the expense of freedom.

Obviously we have a lot of laws that restrict freedom in the interest of safety. I don't even need to give a whole bunch of examples. I am against many of them. Like the one example I'll give: Seat belt laws. But the difference between something like a seat belt law and a mask mandate is obvious. When you don't wear a seat belt, you compromise your own safety. VERY unlikely that you're compromising the safety of anybody else. When you refuse to comply with a mask mandate, you are compromising the safety of other people.

I have always said that Libertarianism is the idea that you can do whatever you want as long as you don't cross the line into obviously affecting other people. And this nut job anti mask stuff as well as the nut job anti vax stuff is obviously putting other people at risk. You have a right to not wear a mask up until the point where you are around somebody else. And you have a right to be unvaccinated. But other people have the right to say you can't be around them if you are not wearing a mask and/or you are not vaccinated.

[SDHornet]

Not too worried. All this is just as enforceable as the mask mandates...hence the push for digital vax passports.

It's all about control folks like you and Ganny is totally on board with "safety" at the expense of freedom.

Obviously we have a lot of laws that restrict freedom in the interest of safety. I don't even need to give a whole bunch of examples. I am against many of them. Like the one example I'll give: Seat belt laws. But the difference between something like a seat belt law and a mask mandate is obvious. When you don't wear a seat belt, you compromise your own safety. VERY unlikely that you're compromising the safety of anybody else. When you refuse to comply with a mask mandate, you are compromising the safety of other people.

I have always said that Libertarianism is the idea that you can do whatever you want as long as you don't cross the line into obviously affecting other people. And this nut job anti mask stuff as well as the nut job anti vax stuff is obviously putting other people at risk. You have a right to not wear a mask up until the point where you are around somebody else. And you have a right to be unvaccinated. But other people have the right to say you can't be around them if you are not wearing a mask and/or you are not vaccinated.

Seat belt laws are used to keep people out of public places? Who knew!

[SeattleGriz]

Then why the liability removal? Why the dual approach now that Pfizer has been “approved”?

Saw that this "approval" was just an extension of their emergency use status. Not sure if true.

And yes, good point on the liability removal.

If Pfizer got the approval, by law Moderna and J&J lose their EUA status, as there is an approved vaccine on the market, but that hasn't happened. I understand the approval to be for a future version that has not been manufactured yet.

[JohnStOnge]

Saw that this "approval" was just an extension of their emergency use status. Not sure if true.

And yes, good point on the liability removal.

If Pfizer got the approval, by law Moderna and J&J lose their EUA status, as there is an approved vaccine on the market,

I suspect that's not true. But if it is that's bad because the Moderna vaccine appears to be the most effective COVID-19 vaccine.

[SeattleGriz]

If Pfizer got the approval, by law Moderna and J&J lose their EUA status, as there is an approved vaccine on the market,

I suspect that's not true. But if it is that's bad because the Moderna vaccine appears to be the most effective COVID-19 vaccine.

It's true, but to be honest, why would you all of a sudden ban two vaccines that have been used quite extensively? I could see a sidestepping of that rule being justified.

It true because that is why you heard so much bitching about HCQ and Ivermectin. People are saying that's why they "buried" those two, because if there was something effective, the vaccines could have not gotten their EUAs in the first place.

[∞∞∞]

Saw that this "approval" was just an extension of their emergency use status. Not sure if true.

And yes, good point on the liability removal.

If Pfizer got the approval, by law Moderna and J&J lose their EUA status, as there is an approved vaccine on the market, but that hasn't happened. I understand the approval to be for a future version that has not been manufactured yet.

I had to look this up and it seems to be a misinterpretation of the law.

The law says you can't issue an EUA when there's an approved vaccine on the market. Moderna and J&J already had EUAs issued before Pfizer received its FDA approval. They wouldn't be able to get an EUA if they tried now, but nothing in the law says it's lost once another drug is approved. In fact, the termination reasons are specifically stated in section (a)(2):

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/21/360bbb-3

Basically the EUA is terminated if the Secretary of Health & Human Services determines the reason for the EUA doesn't exist anymore or the status of the product has changed (ex. it gained FDA approval or has been rejected).

[Ibanez]

The liability has been law since the 80s so it’s nothing new. It’s not as if it was created specifically for the COVID-19 vaccine. At one point is also covered any serious side effects from Viagra.


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Pfizer has a squeaky clean record so I'm sure everything with this vax is all good.

That's a deflection, SD. None of them have a squeaky clean record. Neither does any car company, telecommunication company, restaurant, apparel maker, home builder, etc... You ever taken a prescription pill before? You want to bet that Pharma company has done something dirty?


The point is...the liability shield is neither new nor nefarious. It's been in existence since 1988 with additional legislation in 2005. And it doesn't last forever, just 4 years. It's just a talking point but once you look at the history and realize that there isn't any special treatment being afforded the manufacturers of COVID vaccines, objectively, I don't see how you can use it against them in terms of the COVID vaccine.

[89Hen]

A number of the States near the top of the list got hit before the country really had come to grips with what was going on. They got hit first. Like New York. Yes. Things were very bad there in the beginning. But now things are much worse in Florida and Texas.

So it's like college football. Lose badly early in the season and you can still make the playoffs, but lose a closer game later in the year and you're toast.

[∞∞∞]

A number of the States near the top of the list got hit before the country really had come to grips with what was going on. They got hit first. Like New York. Yes. Things were very bad there in the beginning. But now things are much worse in Florida and Texas.

So it's like college football. Lose badly early in the season and you can still make the playoffs, but lose a closer game later in the year and you're toast.

Bad comparison considering we were still trying to understand Covid, how it spread, how to treat it at the hospital, nor did we have vaccines.

[89Hen]

So it's like college football. Lose badly early in the season and you can still make the playoffs, but lose a closer game later in the year and you're toast.

Bad comparison considering we were still trying to understand Covid, how it spread, how to treat it at the hospital, nor did we have vaccines.

Meh. Those states at the top of the list did worse than others.

[kalm]

So it's like college football. Lose badly early in the season and you can still make the playoffs, but lose a closer game later in the year and you're toast.

Bad comparison considering we were still trying to understand Covid, how it spread, how to treat it at the hospital, nor did we have vaccines.

Red states are like UNI. Ranked to start, fall from rankings after a brutal OOC and early conferences losses, but then a late resurgence with a couple of quality wins to eek out an at-large, followed by the boat racing of a weaker conference champ, only to lose in the 2nd round. Will start the next surge ranked high again due in part to Massey.

[SeattleGriz]

Bad comparison considering we were still trying to understand Covid, how it spread, how to treat it at the hospital, nor did we have vaccines.

Red states are like UNI. Ranked to start, fall from rankings after a brutal OOC and early conferences losses, but then a late resurgence with a couple of quality wins to eek out an at-large, followed by the boat racing of a weaker conference champ, only to lose in the 2nd round. Will start the next surge ranked high again due in part to Massey.

You just said out loud what I was thinking of UNI!

Montana is the Texas of FCS, so we've got no room to criticize though.

[UNI88]

A number of the States near the top of the list got hit before the country really had come to grips with what was going on. They got hit first. Like New York. Yes. Things were very bad there in the beginning. But now things are much worse in Florida and Texas.

So it's like college football. Lose badly early in the season and you can still make the playoffs, but lose a closer game later in the year and you're toast.

The early stages and now are two different seasons. NY won the pre-vaccine COVID death championship. The post-vaccine/delta+ variant championship is still up for grabs.

[89Hen]

Bad comparison considering we were still trying to understand Covid, how it spread, how to treat it at the hospital, nor did we have vaccines.

Red states are like UNI. Ranked to start, fall from rankings after a brutal OOC and early conferences losses, but then a late resurgence with a couple of quality wins to eek out an at-large, followed by the boat racing of a weaker conference champ, only to lose in the 2nd round. Will start the next surge ranked high again due in part to Massey.

I think we've started something here.

[GannonFan]

Then why the liability removal? Why the dual approach now that Pfizer has been “approved”?

Saw that this "approval" was just an extension of their emergency use status. Not sure if true.

And yes, good point on the liability removal.

Huh? Where are you reading that it's just an extension of the emergency use status? It's fully approved, has a brand name now and everything. No different than any other approved vaccine that's been on the market in the past.

[Ibanez]

Saw that this "approval" was just an extension of their emergency use status. Not sure if true.

And yes, good point on the liability removal.

Huh? Where are you reading that it's just an extension of the emergency use status? It's fully approved, has a brand name now and everything. No different than any other approved vaccine that's been on the market in the past.

This one is different! It's covered under a liability shield that the avg person didn't know existed. RAWR!

[89Hen]

This aged well.

[SeattleGriz]

Saw that this "approval" was just an extension of their emergency use status. Not sure if true.

And yes, good point on the liability removal.

Huh? Where are you reading that it's just an extension of the emergency use status? It's fully approved, has a brand name now and everything. No different than any other approved vaccine that's been on the market in the past.

But can you go out and actually get the brand name version right now, or do you have to get the original under the EUA?

[GannonFan]

Huh? Where are you reading that it's just an extension of the emergency use status? It's fully approved, has a brand name now and everything. No different than any other approved vaccine that's been on the market in the past.

But can you go out and actually get the brand name version right now, or do you have to get the original under the EUA?

??? You want to make a distinction between what was manufactured prior to the FDA giving the full approval and that that was made after they signed the paper? Why is that a distinction point? To get full approval requires not only the testing, but it requires things like the FDA auditing and inspecting the manufacturing facilities. The process to make the vaccine and the methods/equipment to do so haven't changed since they've embarked on the path to full authorization.