Coronavirus COVID-19

[Gil Dobie]

Vaccine mandates

quarantines

masks

There is so much bullshit “science” floating around behind these government edicts and they are taking on a distinctly fucked up government typical flavor

Case in point:

My kids go to middle school in Loudoun County, the epicenter of the Aldous Huxley version of “science”

My youngest was determined to have been exposed to COVID this past Friday.

Her school made this determination this past Wednesday. So from Friday to Wednesday, she was in gen pop. Then, on Wednesday, I have to go pick her up from the fucking school because she’s now quarantined.

The school nurse walks her out after I have been standing in front of the school intercom thing for 30 gotdamb minutes. She’s wearing a mask. I’m not. The first thing this idiot does is posture about maintaining distance from me, saying I should put on a mask.

Then, she proceeds to explain to me that my daughter was exposed last Friday, and she has to quarantine for a week. BUT.. she can come back to school this Tuesday! Because her quarantine “technically” began last Friday. So, she has been in gen pop for THREE FUCKING SCHOOL DAYS and she can go back on Tuesday.

So, why don’t some of you science-y cunts without biology degrees explain the “science” to this dude with an actual biology degree how the most progressive school district in America.. where they cant tell the difference between girls and boys... is “following science”?


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Our youngest was in school for 5 days and got put into 10 day quarantine. Got a call from the principal today, after only one week back, saying he had been exposed but wasn't a close contact. Same bus. He's good to go.

My Grandson's school last year required a Negative Covid Test or 10 day quarantine, if the student was exposed or had flu-like symptoms. Yes, they were in class last year. I only have a Math & Science degree with Majors in Zoology and History, and a Computer Science Degree, so that's all I know.

[AZGrizFan]

The kids have figured it out. Sniff a couple times, say you’re not feeling well, and you get to go home.

[SDHornet]

More like providing a counter point against the onslaught of Big Pharma propaganda being crammed down our throats.

People are explaining why they are following medical guidelines on one side. On the other side it's all about justifying their point of view in the name of freedom, hidden vail of conspiracy, and by the way, fuck the freedom of the other side.

Nothing is more valuable than freedom.


Speaking of which, Donk governors are using military to do civilian functions in private institutions...

...there's a word for that.

[SDHornet]

CA Dept of Health dashboard.

1.5% of the people that have tested positive for Covid in CA, have died. So only 2/3's of the people that have died of covid, in CA have been hospitalized? I'm calling shenanigan's until I see the link you have.

FYI: Florida moved up to #9 in deaths per million today.

Those aren't my numbers. I was replying to where I get my data from, not that it aligns with those percentages that SG posted.

[SDHornet]

Since the jab isn't stopping infections, we can drop that as a reason to vax kids. And if folks that work or live with or near kids are worried about getting it from them, they can get the jab.

Regarding the teachers, if they are that worried about teachers getting/spreading it, then they should be required to be vaxxed likes kids, no?

It makes no sense to require some people in a school setting (students) and not the teachers. Zero sense whatso ever if you are "following the science and data".

First let me say that, when I said government is following the science now, I was talking about the Federal government. Obviously there are State governments, like those in Florida and Texas, that aren't.

Having said that: The vaccines do not stop infection entirely. But they substantially reduce the risk. See https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021 ... risks.html. This kind of crap needs to stop. You need to stop believing whatever the crap sources you are listening to are telling you. The fact that the vaccines do not entirely eliminate the risk of infection does not mean they do not substantially reduce the risk of infection.

There is no such thing, and there has never been such a thing, as a 100% effective vaccine. But there are numerous examples of situations in which achieving widespread vaccination brought diseases under control.

Move those goalposts rickety man.

[SDHornet]

More like providing a counter point against the onslaught of Big Pharma propaganda being crammed down our throats.

That's paranoia.

So Big Pharma can do no wrong. Got it.

[SDHornet]

Staff have to be vaccinated or undergo regular testing.

The student thing won't go into effect until the vaccines are approved for each age group nor will it go into effect until July 1, 2022.

I imagine Cali will soon follow New York's lead and mandate it for staff.

SD, SG, et al, how does requiring the COVID vaccine for students differ from requiring other vaccines (Hepatitis, Whooping Cough, Measles, etc.)?

Trip, what happens if there is a shortage of staff as a result of the mandates? How well is this working in NY? IMO, overcrowded classrooms more negatively impact economically challenged families.

Covered this before but this is a different type of "vaccine" compared to the others. A "vaccine" in which we don't have any long term data, and won't have any long term data for quite some time.

[SDHornet]

One consequence I'm seeing in the aviation/engineering industry (and my own company) are younger people stepping into higher positions/pay 'cause most anti-vaxxers being let go lean older. Wouldn't be surprised if this is happening across other industries.

There may be short-term consequences, but for people my age and around (Gen X, Y, Z), it seems like good paying positions that need to be filled are growing. Even I'm being recruited for positions I didn't think I qualified for just a year ago.

At my own company, the lady we fired for not being vaccinated was on the older side and in her place we hired a young woman who (so far) has turned out to be 20x better. Would have never hired her if the ex-employee didn't refuse to be vaccinated.

Jump at the opportunities. You might be in over your head but put in the effort and you'll grow and advance much faster as a result.

Yup. Fake it til you make it.

[SDHornet]

If it was serious, healthcare workers wouldn't be getting fired over the jab.

[SeattleGriz]

The kids have figured it out. Sniff a couple times, say you’re not feeling well, and you get to go home.

The other issue is the batch testing they are performing on asymptomatic kids. Grab a group of kids, swab noses with a rapid test kit and send them all home for 10 days without any confirmation testing.

[kalm]

SD, SG, et al, how does requiring the COVID vaccine for students differ from requiring other vaccines (Hepatitis, Whooping Cough, Measles, etc.)?

Trip, what happens if there is a shortage of staff as a result of the mandates? How well is this working in NY? IMO, overcrowded classrooms more negatively impact economically challenged families.

To me it matters because the data (strictly total numbers) is already showing the risk of myocarditis is higher in boys than a child dying from COVID by a good measure. Don't know if those that contract myocarditis will have it resolve itself, but a permanent case is bad news.

Also, the vaccines you list are a get the vaccine and be done event. COVID is going to need boosters as the virus mutates, very similar to the flu vaccine - unless it settles in as a weak seasonal cold.

I'm simply not convinced on the mRNA vaccines. When Novavax, which is a more traditional vaccine, gets approval, my worry will decrease immensely.

Plus, I'm old enough to remember thalidomide, Vioxx, opioids, etc...

Link?

I assume that’s for teens and initial numbers?

[Gil Dobie]

That dang booster

[JohnStOnge]

Vaccine mandates

quarantines

masks

There is so much bullshit “science” floating around behind these government edicts and they are taking on a distinctly fucked up government typical flavor

Case in point:

My kids go to middle school in Loudoun County, the epicenter of the Aldous Huxley version of “science”

My youngest was determined to have been exposed to COVID this past Friday.

Her school made this determination this past Wednesday. So from Friday to Wednesday, she was in gen pop. Then, on Wednesday, I have to go pick her up from the fucking school because she’s now quarantined.

The school nurse walks her out after I have been standing in front of the school intercom thing for 30 gotdamb minutes. She’s wearing a mask. I’m not. The first thing this idiot does is posture about maintaining distance from me, saying I should put on a mask.

Then, she proceeds to explain to me that my daughter was exposed last Friday, and she has to quarantine for a week. BUT.. she can come back to school this Tuesday! Because her quarantine “technically” began last Friday. So, she has been in gen pop for THREE FUCKING SCHOOL DAYS and she can go back on Tuesday.

So, why don’t some of you science-y cunts without biology degrees explain the “science” to this dude with an actual biology degree how the most progressive school district in America.. where they cant tell the difference between girls and boys... is “following science”?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think the school nurse was correct in being concerned about you not wearing a mask. I don't understand why a week long quarantine period based on the suspected exposure date would be Tuesday instead of the following Friday. And actually I don't know why the quarantine period would be one week instead of two since the COVID-19 incubation period is believed to be 2 to 14 days.

I don't think that how long the subject was in general population should matter. I think the idea should be that you look at when exposure occurred then watch the person for 14 days to see if there is an evidence of infection/disease. Then if nothing within 14 days of the exposure date they are clear. If you don't know they were exposed so they're in the general population for a few days before you know it that shouldn't matter. The clock starts when the exposure happened.

[JohnStOnge]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/25/heal ... ccine.html

The Pfizer-BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine is associated with an increased risk of myocarditis, an inflammation of the heart muscle, a large new study from Israel confirms. But the side effect remains rare, and Covid-19 is more likely to cause myocarditis than the vaccine is, scientists reported on Wednesday.

“Coronavirus is very dangerous, and it’s very dangerous to the human body in many ways,” said Ben Reis, a co-author of the new study and the director of the predictive medicine group at the Boston Children’s Hospital Computational Health Informatics Program.

He added, “If the reason that someone so far has been hesitating to get the vaccine is fear of this very rare and usually not very serious adverse event called myocarditis, well, this study shows that that very same adverse event is actually associated with a higher risk if you’re not vaccinated and you get infected.”

[Ivytalk]

Vaccine mandates

quarantines

masks

There is so much bullshit “science” floating around behind these government edicts and they are taking on a distinctly fucked up government typical flavor

Case in point:

My kids go to middle school in Loudoun County, the epicenter of the Aldous Huxley version of “science”

My youngest was determined to have been exposed to COVID this past Friday.

Her school made this determination this past Wednesday. So from Friday to Wednesday, she was in gen pop. Then, on Wednesday, I have to go pick her up from the fucking school because she’s now quarantined.

The school nurse walks her out after I have been standing in front of the school intercom thing for 30 gotdamb minutes. She’s wearing a mask. I’m not. The first thing this idiot does is posture about maintaining distance from me, saying I should put on a mask.

Then, she proceeds to explain to me that my daughter was exposed last Friday, and she has to quarantine for a week. BUT.. she can come back to school this Tuesday! Because her quarantine “technically” began last Friday. So, she has been in gen pop for THREE FUCKING SCHOOL DAYS and she can go back on Tuesday.

So, why don’t some of you science-y cunts without biology degrees explain the “science” to this dude with an actual biology degree how the most progressive school district in America.. where they cant tell the difference between girls and boys... is “following science”?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think the school nurse was correct in being concerned about you not wearing a mask. I don't understand why a week long quarantine period based on the suspected exposure date would be Tuesday instead of the following Friday. And actually I don't know why the quarantine period would be one week instead of two since the COVID-19 incubation period is believed to be 2 to 14 days.

I don't think that how long the subject was in general population should matter. I think the idea should be that you look at when exposure occurred then watch the person for 14 days to see if there is an evidence of infection/disease. Then if nothing within 14 days of the exposure date they are clear. If you don't know they were exposed so they're in the general population for a few days before you know it that shouldn't matter. The clock starts when the exposure happened.

Actually, it’s 6.93 days, StOoge. I did a double-reverse, end-around, multiple regression with a Bering’s coefficient. Check your data.

[CID1990]

Vaccine mandates

quarantines

masks

There is so much bullshit “science” floating around behind these government edicts and they are taking on a distinctly fucked up government typical flavor

Case in point:

My kids go to middle school in Loudoun County, the epicenter of the Aldous Huxley version of “science”

My youngest was determined to have been exposed to COVID this past Friday.

Her school made this determination this past Wednesday. So from Friday to Wednesday, she was in gen pop. Then, on Wednesday, I have to go pick her up from the fucking school because she’s now quarantined.

The school nurse walks her out after I have been standing in front of the school intercom thing for 30 gotdamb minutes. She’s wearing a mask. I’m not. The first thing this idiot does is posture about maintaining distance from me, saying I should put on a mask.

Then, she proceeds to explain to me that my daughter was exposed last Friday, and she has to quarantine for a week. BUT.. she can come back to school this Tuesday! Because her quarantine “technically” began last Friday. So, she has been in gen pop for THREE FUCKING SCHOOL DAYS and she can go back on Tuesday.

So, why don’t some of you science-y cunts without biology degrees explain the “science” to this dude with an actual biology degree how the most progressive school district in America.. where they cant tell the difference between girls and boys... is “following science”?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think the school nurse was correct in being concerned about you not wearing a mask. I don't understand why a week long quarantine period based on the suspected exposure date would be Tuesday instead of the following Friday. And actually I don't know why the quarantine period would be one week instead of two since the COVID-19 incubation period is believed to be 2 to 14 days.

I don't think that how long the subject was in general population should matter. I think the idea should be that you look at when exposure occurred then watch the person for 14 days to see if there is an evidence of infection/disease. Then if nothing within 14 days of the exposure date they are clear. If you don't know they were exposed so they're in the general population for a few days before you know it that shouldn't matter. The clock starts when the exposure happened.

You completely missed my point

Loudoun County Public Schools has a ten day quarantine policy after suspected exposure- the idea being to keep a kid away from everybody else in case they have the virus. It is NOT just to observe for symptoms.

The issue is that they knew about the exposure the previous week but left my kid and others who were potentially exposed in school with their classmates for a few days before chasing them down and sending them home. Nothing about how it was handled is “following the science.” Well, maybe it is “interpreting the CDC” which is quite a feat these days.

And, I was outdoors and 20 feet downwind from the damn nurse so no, JSWronge, she was not correct to be concerned if she was “following the science”.

[kalm]

I think the school nurse was correct in being concerned about you not wearing a mask. I don't understand why a week long quarantine period based on the suspected exposure date would be Tuesday instead of the following Friday. And actually I don't know why the quarantine period would be one week instead of two since the COVID-19 incubation period is believed to be 2 to 14 days.

I don't think that how long the subject was in general population should matter. I think the idea should be that you look at when exposure occurred then watch the person for 14 days to see if there is an evidence of infection/disease. Then if nothing within 14 days of the exposure date they are clear. If you don't know they were exposed so they're in the general population for a few days before you know it that shouldn't matter. The clock starts when the exposure happened.

You completely missed my point

Loudoun County Public Schools has a ten day quarantine policy after suspected exposure- the idea being to keep a kid away from everybody else in case they have the virus. It is NOT just to observe for symptoms.

The issue is that they knew about the exposure the previous week but left my kid and others who were potentially exposed in school with their classmates for a few days before chasing them down and sending them home. Nothing about how it was handled is “following the science.” Well, maybe it is “interpreting the CDC” which is quite a feat these days.

And, I was outdoors and 20 feet downwind from the damn nurse so no, JSWronge, she was not correct to be concerned if she was “following the science”.

It’s stupid, I agree. In a nation of 33 million people there are many idiots and irrational people including/especially in leadership or authority positions.

[JohnStOnge]

I think the school nurse was correct in being concerned about you not wearing a mask. I don't understand why a week long quarantine period based on the suspected exposure date would be Tuesday instead of the following Friday. And actually I don't know why the quarantine period would be one week instead of two since the COVID-19 incubation period is believed to be 2 to 14 days.

I don't think that how long the subject was in general population should matter. I think the idea should be that you look at when exposure occurred then watch the person for 14 days to see if there is an evidence of infection/disease. Then if nothing within 14 days of the exposure date they are clear. If you don't know they were exposed so they're in the general population for a few days before you know it that shouldn't matter. The clock starts when the exposure happened.

You completely missed my point

Loudoun County Public Schools has a ten day quarantine policy after suspected exposure- the idea being to keep a kid away from everybody else in case they have the virus. It is NOT just to observe for symptoms.

The point of the 14 day quarantine is to keep the subject away from other people in case they have the virus. They are observed for symptoms because they may have to be moved from quarantine to isolation if they start to show symptoms. Or I guess they could also be tested every few days them to see if they are positive. They are quarantined and if nothing happens within 14 days of the exposure there is high confidence that they are not going to be infected due to that exposure. If they start to show symptoms and (I presume) test positive they have to be isolated.

The issue is that they knew about the exposure the previous week but left my kid and others who were potentially exposed in school with their classmates for a few days before chasing them down and sending them home. Nothing about how it was handled is “following the science.” Well, maybe it is “interpreting the CDC” which is quite a feat these days.

If they are doing 10 day quarantines (10 days from exposure) I do not think they are following CDC guidance. The CDC recommends 14 day quarantine (per consideration of the high end of the likely incubation period range). See https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... quarantine. I also do not think leaving kids in school for several days when they knew they had been exposed is consistent with CDC guidance. You are correct that I misinterpreted what you wrote in that I interpreted it as meaning they left the subject in the general population because there was a delay in recognizing that she'd been exposed.

BTW, I have never found what CDC has been recommending or the rationales for it difficult to interpret. That quarantine guidance I just linked, for instance, is very easy to interpret.

I have seen CDC change its position on things. That does not concern me. I think one should expect that in a situation involving a new infectious disease. For example: CDC recommended against wearing masks to protect the wearer early on. One factor they cited in that was concern that people wearing masks would get a false sense of security so that they would not pay as much attention to social distancing, hand washing, etc.

But they ALWAYS recommended that people who were infectious wear masks in order to cut the risk of spreading the infection to others. Critically, though, they initially thought people were only infectious when they were ill.

When it became clear that there was substantial spread of the disease by people who were asymptomatically infected, they changed their recommendations to say that everybody should wear masks for obvious reasons. It was not confusing at all. The initial position made perfect sense given the assumption that only people who actually became symptomatic spread the disease. The assumption was wrong. That can happen. But in the grand scheme of things health officials pretty quickly realized the assumption was wrong. So they changed their recommendation to address the problem of asymptomatic spread. They were still, as they ALWAYS had been, saying that infectious people should wear masks. It's just that they had to adjust to a situation where someone COULD be infectious without having any indication to know that. We had to go to a paradigm where we had to assume that anyone could be infectious. Made perfect sense.

I have been shaking my head for months over people saying the CDC guidance on masks was confusing. It wasn't confusing at all. Their reasoning was always very easy to understand. They just adjusted to new information as the situation developed; which is exactly what they should have been doing.

And, I was outdoors and 20 feet downwind from the damn nurse so no, JSWronge, she was not correct to be concerned if she was “following the science”.

If you were 20 feet downwind and outdoors then I agree that there was no risk.

[JohnStOnge]

Plus, I'm old enough to remember thalidomide, Vioxx, opioids, etc...

The adverse impacts of Thalidomide were minimal in the United States because the FDA declined to approve it here back when that was going on. It was approved in 1998 for leprosy. But everyone understands that pregnant women can't take it and is tightly controlled.

The Vioxx thing is cause for some concern because of allegations that the company (Merck) dragged its feet on full disclosure of data, etc. But there was evidence of a problem in actual controlled experimental studies within 5 months of FDA approval. There is a timeline and history at https://www.npr.org/2007/11/10/5470430/ ... l-of-vioxx. There isn't any indication of any evidence of serious adverse effects from the mRNA vaccines.

If there were any mRNA vaccine adverse events anywhere near as serious or frequent as there were for Vioxx, they would have shown up in the clinical trials. The Vioxx problem showed up in an experiment involving 4,000 people taking the drug in the experiment. 79 patients out of 4,000 taking Vioxx had serious heart problems or died compared with 41 patients taking naproxen. I don't have the Janssen vaccine trial bookmarked. But the Pfizer trial included 21,720 treatment subjects and the Moderna trial included 15,210 treatment subjects. Nothing remotely indicating any serious adverse events showed up even though the treatment groups are much larger than they were for Vioxx. This is not like the Vioxx situation. In the Vioxx situation, there was evidence of a serious problem and there was some kind of breakdown that delayed withdrawal from the market (with the accusation being that Merck didn't do what it should have done). With the mRNA vaccines, there isn't any evidence of a serious problem.

I don't think the opioid problem has to do with the system for approving drugs. I think opioids are indeed safe and effective IF they are controlled and used as intended. I think the problem with opioids is that they work damn well as recreational drugs so they get misused a lot. Note that drugs like oxycontin and hydrocodone are still approved but are supposed to be tightly controlled.

[JohnStOnge]

On the issue of whether vaccination cuts infection risk and has an effect on viral circulation in the population, see the CDC Science Brief at https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... eople.html (though it's not brief).

Just do a find on "infect" and cruise through it. You will see that there is lots of evidence that 1) the risk of infection, whether symptomatic or asymptomatic, is reduced by vaccination and 2) vaccinated people are less likely to transmit the disease to others.

The brief was most recently updated September 15, so it is pretty current. There are lots of things that I could quote from it. But I picked this from the "Conclusions" section:

Evidence suggests the U.S. COVID-19 vaccination program has substantially reduced the burden of disease in the United States by preventing serious illness in fully vaccinated people and interrupting chains of transmission. Vaccinated people can still become infected and have the potential to spread the virus to others, although at much lower rates than unvaccinated people.

It really is a shame that something like that assessment is not the end of the argument. As I've said before, the CDC is the finest epidemiology entity in the world. The assessment cites 182 references. The agency is armed with batteries of statisticians, virologists, and infectious disease experts.

But there are people who will believe a dermatopathologist (Dermatopathologists are doctors who use microscopes to look at samples of skin, hair, and nails to diagnose diseases, see https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/wha ... athologist) in Idaho who was completely wrong about just about everything he said during a viral video instead of believing the top experts on the subject at hand in the world. It's really sad and it's really hurting our society's effort to get past this thing.

[CID1990]

You completely missed my point

Loudoun County Public Schools has a ten day quarantine policy after suspected exposure- the idea being to keep a kid away from everybody else in case they have the virus. It is NOT just to observe for symptoms.
The issue is that they knew about the exposure the previous week but left my kid and others who were potentially exposed in school with their classmates for a few days before chasing them down and sending them home. Nothing about how it was handled is “following the science.” Well, maybe it is “interpreting the CDC” which is quite a feat these days.
And, I was outdoors and 20 feet downwind from the damn nurse so no, JSWronge, she was not correct to be concerned if she was “following the science”.

OK... I’m going to spell out all of my points for you so I can hopefully break through the Asperger-y shell here

LCPS has a 10 day quarantine policy for possible exposures: NOT follow-y science-y

My kid was in school for two days after they determined she had been exposed: NOT follow-y science-y

She had two days in gen pop where in theory (no need for War and Peace about incubation periods) she could have exposed anybody. The kid she was exposed to was non-symptomatic. So the idea that kicking her out of school after having remained there for two days is idiocy. I don’t disagree with the quarantine - just the implementation. I would have been fine if they had booted her on the day of the exposure (which they knew about)... In other words, this supposedly blue ribbon school district that is supposedly led by adults who know stuff... they fucked it up. I guess they can be forgiven... theyve been laser focused on making sure biological boys get called girls when they wannabe

This is the wokest, greenest, most Democrat school district just about anywhere in the US and their local COVID policies for schools are not driven by fact or the science at all.


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[Gil Dobie]

The kids have figured it out. Sniff a couple times, say you’re not feeling well, and you get to go home.

The other issue is the batch testing they are performing on asymptomatic kids. Grab a group of kids, swab noses with a rapid test kit and send them all home for 10 days without any confirmation testing.

I would assume they are doing the saliva test on groups. Results are available the next day.

[BDKJMU]

Unlike the situation during the Trump Administration, the government is definitely now following the science and the data. The only agenda is to try to suppress the pandemic.

This right wing paranoia about some kind of "agenda" other than trying to suppress the pandemic is complete nonsense.

Uh no. In CA, why mandates on vaccinating kids for schools if they aren't dying from it? And why no mandates on teachers to get vaxxed?

Please explain how that is "following the science and data". I'll wait.

Yep. Also if the govt was following the data, they‘d allow for natural immunity via antibody test to be considered as part of their vax mandate.

[HI54UNI]

Fully vaxed SIL has it. Thinks she brought it home from work. Gave it to my brother as well.

[kalm]

Fully vaxed SIL has it. Thinks she brought it home from work. Gave it to my brother as well.

That sucks. When did she get vaxxed?