Coronavirus COVID-19

[GannonFan]

A catholic refusing a vaccine based stem cell use in the development makes sense but if the J&J vaccine didn't use stem cells then he has an alternative.

A Catholic refusing a vaccine based on stem cell use would be in alignment with Church beliefs. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines weren't developed with stem cells from fetuses or a cell line from fetuses.

Not that I agree with their position, but of course the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines used in testing fetal cell lines that came from elective abortions in the 70's and 80's. Like I said, I have no ethical or religious issue with that in this case, but I think you're incorrect when you say they weren't developed using cell lines from that source.

[SDHornet]

Is he though? I don't know the guy, nor have I heard him speak on this. I assume that there are many people who genuinely believe, for reasons of conscience, that they don't want to have a vaccine that has been developed using stem cell lines that were provided via abortions. The Catholic Church has their own position, but not every Catholic is fully behind every single position the Church takes. He might be a coward, but he could still just be a person of a very deep religious conviction.

With that said, wouldn't the issue with the vaccine and aborted stem lines only pertain to the mRNA vaccines? I don't think the J&J vaccine came via that route.

Yup. His religion says it's his obligation. I'm not sure how you can say something is a deeply held religious belief if it goes against what your religion says.

Nope. Religion aside, I believe you can have a notary document your conscientious objection to the vaccine and that can be used in the same vein as a religious exemption. Whether or not it is accepted is another question.

[SDHornet]

A Catholic refusing a vaccine based on stem cell use would be in alignment with Church beliefs. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines weren't developed with stem cells from fetuses or a cell line from fetuses.

Not that I agree with their position, but of course the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines used in testing fetal cell lines that came from elective abortions in the 70's and 80's. Like I said, I have no ethical or religious issue with that in this case, but I think you're incorrect when you say they weren't developed using cell lines from that source.

Correct. A whistleblower came forward with emails from Pfizer saying to keep the use of fetal cells from any public responses/documents.

[UNI88]

Houndy is like an patient drooling in his pudding cup. He needs all the help he can get.

Yes there was and that was short-sighted and foolish. Adjusting as we go is smart. Being arrogant and just telling people they should do what you say without question or a real explanation is arrogant. Fauxi is obviously arrogant.

The vaccines were supposed to: 1) protect the vaccinated and 2) stop the spread. It's pretty obvious that they aren't working as well as people thought at stopping the spread but they have done a good job at protecting the vaccinated. Focusing almost exclusively on the failure at #2 to question of the efficacy of the vaccines is being intentionally misleading.

Agreed, however now they are mandating a vax that requires a regular booster, and now we have more info on natural immunity that has conveniently fallen off the radar for discussions on who needs/should get the vax. More goalpost moving.

I don't think adjusting as we learn (need for boosters) is moving the goalposts.

I agree that that there are so-called experts who aren't being as forthcoming in researching and discussing other considerations such as natural immunity.

[houndawg]

2) No vaccine is 100% effective - we've been told that from Day 1.

Correct. We were told 95% and led to believe that it was 95% effective on keeping you from getting it, not getting a lesser case of it. Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe the polio vaccine keeps you from getting polio, not getting a lesser case of polio.

STOP LYING HOUND.

You're hearing voices.

We were told it was 99% effective at keeping you out of the ICU and off a ventilator.

No vaccine is 100% effective according to Dr. Fauci.

Polio isn't covid

[Gil Dobie]

Correct. We were told 95% and led to believe that it was 95% effective on keeping you from getting it, not getting a lesser case of it. Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe the polio vaccine keeps you from getting polio, not getting a lesser case of polio.

STOP LYING HOUND.

You're hearing voices.

We were told it was 99% effective at keeping you out of the ICU and off a ventilator.

No vaccine is 100% effective according to Dr. Fauci.

Polio isn't covid

Polio vaccine is 90% effective after 2 doses, 99-100% after 3.

[SDHornet]

You're hearing voices.

We were told it was 99% effective at keeping you out of the ICU and off a ventilator.

No vaccine is 100% effective according to Dr. Fauci.

Polio isn't covid

Polio vaccine is 90% effective after 2 doses, 99-100% after 3.

Gil knows. He was in the trial group when this shit went live.

[SDHornet]

[Ibanez]

A Catholic refusing a vaccine based on stem cell use would be in alignment with Church beliefs. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines weren't developed with stem cells from fetuses or a cell line from fetuses.

Not that I agree with their position, but of course the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines used in testing fetal cell lines that came from elective abortions in the 70's and 80's. Like I said, I have no ethical or religious issue with that in this case, but I think you're incorrect when you say they weren't developed using cell lines from that source.

Is that true? I've not seen or read anything that suggests that.

[Ibanez]

Not that I agree with their position, but of course the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines used in testing fetal cell lines that came from elective abortions in the 70's and 80's. Like I said, I have no ethical or religious issue with that in this case, but I think you're incorrect when you say they weren't developed using cell lines from that source.

Correct. A whistleblower came forward with emails from Pfizer saying to keep the use of fetal cells from any public responses/documents.

I wasn't aware of that....i'll have to do some reading sometime during my 2 hours today that i'm NOT on a conference call.

[kalm]

Yup. His religion says it's his obligation. I'm not sure how you can say something is a deeply held religious belief if it goes against what your religion says.

Nope. Religion aside, I believe you can have a notary document your conscientious objection to the vaccine and that can be used in the same vein as a religious exemption. Whether or not it is accepted is another question.

Rolo kept quiet about whether or not he took it at first. He then waited until the last second to apply for a religious exemption. I assume it was denied but don’t recall for sure.

Regardless…he’s free to not get the jab.

[GannonFan]

Indeed. Why we still let Fauci hold the position he holds is beyond me. I don't think there's any doubt that we were funding some ethically and morally questionable crap in that Wuhan lab, and it's exceedingly likely that leaks with that lab led to the pandemic we're in now. And on top of that, Fauci appears to have used his position to cover-up our (the US) and his own interactions with that lab. Maybe we're worried that exposing Fauci that much will undermine the public's confidence in the public health administration, but considering how little confidence we have in that function now I don't think that will move the needle very much.

[89Hen]

Correct. We were told 95% and led to believe that it was 95% effective on keeping you from getting it, not getting a lesser case of it. Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe the polio vaccine keeps you from getting polio, not getting a lesser case of polio.

STOP LYING HOUND.

You're hearing voices.

We were told it was 99% effective at keeping you out of the ICU and off a ventilator.

No vaccine is 100% effective according to Dr. Fauci.

Polio isn't covid

Strike 2 and 3. We were told it was 95% effective at keeping you from getting it. And it's absolutely hilarious for you to draw a distinction with polio when all we hear from the forced vax folks are comparisons to the polio vax.

[89Hen]

Polio vaccine is 90% effective after 2 doses, 99-100% after 3.

Effective at what exactly?

[Ibanez]

You're hearing voices.

We were told it was 99% effective at keeping you out of the ICU and off a ventilator.

No vaccine is 100% effective according to Dr. Fauci.

Polio isn't covid

Strike 2 and 3. We were told it was 95% effective at keeping you from getting it. And it's absolutely hilarious for you to draw a distinction with polio when all we hear from the forced vax folks are comparisons to the polio vax.

A booster dose of the Pfizer/BioNTech coronavirus vaccine was found to have a high efficacy -- 95.6% -- against Covid-19 in a Phase 3 trial, the companies announced on Thursday. They noted that "efficacy was consistent irrespective of age, sex, race, ethnicity or comorbid conditions."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/21/health/p ... index.html

[89Hen]

A booster dose of the Pfizer/BioNTech coronavirus vaccine was found to have a high efficacy -- 95.6% -- against Covid-19 in a Phase 3 trial, the companies announced on Thursday. They noted that "efficacy was consistent irrespective of age, sex, race, ethnicity or comorbid conditions."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/21/health/p ... index.html

Good, just so we have it on record so Hound and Gil can't say that's not what efficacy meant.

Pfizer and BioNTech reported that during the study, there were 109 Covid-19 cases among people who received a placebo and five cases among those who received the third dose of vaccine. The companies noted that the vaccine efficacy they found, of 95.6%, reflects that reduction of disease among those who received a booster shot versus those who did not.

[Gil Dobie]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/21/health/p ... index.html

Good, just so we have it on record so Hound and Gil can't say that's not what efficacy meant.

Pfizer and BioNTech reported that during the study, there were 109 Covid-19 cases among people who received a placebo and five cases among those who received the third dose of vaccine. The companies noted that the vaccine efficacy they found, of 95.6%, reflects that reduction of disease among those who received a booster shot versus those who did not.

Are you counting the disease as a positive case or infection, and the reduction of disease as lower numbers or less severity? I think you should do some more research.

[89Hen]

Good, just so we have it on record so Hound and Gil can't say that's not what efficacy meant.

Are you counting the disease as a positive case or infection, and the reduction of disease as lower numbers or less severity? I think you should do some more research.

I think you should do some more research on how the narrative on that has changed.

[Gil Dobie]

Are you counting the disease as a positive case or infection, and the reduction of disease as lower numbers or less severity? I think you should do some more research.

I think you should do some more research on how the narrative on that has changed.

From the beginning it's been the same. However, Social Media and Politicians have changed their narrative.

[89Hen]

From the beginning it's been the same. However, Social Media and Politicians have changed their narrative.

As have doctors and experts.

[Gil Dobie]

From the beginning it's been the same. However, Social Media and Politicians have changed their narrative.

As have doctors and experts.

Doctors have changes as more information comes available about Covid and the vaccines. The other sources make a lot shit up.

[kalm]

From the beginning it's been the same. However, Social Media and Politicians have changed their narrative.

As have doctors and experts.

Many have not except when legitimate studies suggest a change.

We’re making this WAY more difficult than we need to. Most of that is due to politics and selfishness.

[89Hen]

As have doctors and experts.

Doctors have changes as more information comes available about Covid and the vaccines. The other sources make a lot shit up.

And round and round we go. My entire point in this conversation is that the narrative of what the vaccines are, has changed. Last night on the news I heard "stop the spread" again when they were talking about the boosters. They can't help themselves.

[89Hen]

We’re making this WAY more difficult than we need to.

I agree, but I think you and I are talking about different things.

I'm vaxed but I'm against vax mandates. If a private company wants to do it, that's their choice. I don't agree with the decision, but I agree it's their right to do so.

[Gil Dobie]

Doctors have changes as more information comes available about Covid and the vaccines. The other sources make a lot shit up.

And round and round we go. My entire point in this conversation is that the narrative of what the vaccines are, has changed. Last night on the news I heard "stop the spread" again when they were talking about the boosters. They can't help themselves.

The Covid solution is still a work in progress.