The Planned Parenthood video...

[SDHornet]

Innocence is an interesting term.

We accept innocent people getting killed all of the time as a way of life...it is the price of progress and comfort.

We lament the loss of civilian, er...innocent, casualties, in war as something, "necessary" in our fight against the evil enemy.

In reality, those innocent deaths are only necessary to maintain our standard of living.

Heck, we even blithely change our definition of civilian casualties in order to protect the image of our leader, and to make our war effort more acceptably...humane.

The children killed by our bombs, some in their mother's womb, are just as innocent as an aborted child in the US of A. We rationalize the deaths of the children in Pakistan/Syria/Iraq/Libya/etc. by saying they are not directly targeted....they are an unintended casualty of a much more complicated situation that we call a war.

Yeah, wars in which we, throughout our history, have supported, and continue to support, brutal regimes that kill families and innocent children by the tens of thousands. Oops!

For what?

So that we can live like 'Mericans.

Please save me the garbage about America being on the morally correct side of wars; anyone with half a brain knows that is a complete falsehood. We support brutal regimes, and go to war, and play a huge part in the murder of many innocent people for one thing...resources. That's the bottom line. To support our way of life.

And we know it, deep inside.

And we are willing to justify our actions by saying that the killing of those innocent people is not intentional; those casualties are simply an acceptable, but still tragic, cost of going after those that we conveniently define as the bad guys.

Folks won't give up their cell phones, but they want some chick to give up 9 months of her life so that some innocent person can survive.


You have to be kidding me.

[SDHornet]

Actually what I find hllarious is that you are BOTH "selective pro-life" as well. Matter of fact, every person who lives in this country is by your standards. Surely you're not saying we shouldn't have any laws on the books concerning murder.

You nailed it...probably without realizing it. My views don't depend on what country I was living in...or my lifestyle.

I am pro-life.

My life.

And my friends...and people who I find interesting.

Laws against general mayhem and murder directly help to protect me. Abortion (or the murder of someone's fetus) has no impact on me. No conflict at all.

I am not pro-life for anyone that I don't know. Frankly, I don't give a rats arse about people I don't know. Truth be told, you don't really care about those people either, otherwise you would not purchase breathable, comfortable golf clothing made in Vietnam, Thailand, China, or any other shit hole where people...innocent children, and work, and die, like slaves.

You don't give a crap that the making of your cell phone/TV, car, oh, name it...costs innocent people their lives. Reality...we live well because other people are exploited. We (our country) have killed hundreds of thousands of people for our economic benefit. And you are OK with that. You are. And that is funny because you claim to care about innocent lives. Yeah, that they live, perhaps...but not how they live, or how we help them die.

I'm perfectly OK with other people dying and suffering to benefit me. In reality, you are OK with it, too.

So it is funny that pro-life people are concerned about the life of a fetus, but no so concerned about how that fetus ends up living...or dying...so long as the pro-life people's lifestyles aren't negatively impacted.

Crushed it. Modeator Kitteh, lock this baby up.
/motherfuckingthread

[SDHornet]

Actually what I find hllarious is that you are BOTH "selective pro-life" as well. Matter of fact, every person who lives in this country is by your standards. Surely you're not saying we shouldn't have any laws on the books concerning murder.

You nailed it...probably without realizing it. My views don't depend on what country I was living in...or my lifestyle.

I am pro-life.

My life.

And my friends...and people who I find interesting.

Laws against general mayhem and murder directly help to protect me. Abortion (or the murder of someone's fetus) has no impact on me. No conflict at all.

I am not pro-life for anyone that I don't know. Frankly, I don't give a rats arse about people I don't know. Truth be told, you don't really care about those people either, otherwise you would not purchase breathable, comfortable golf clothing made in Vietnam, Thailand, China, or any other shit hole where people...innocent children, and work, and die, like slaves.

You don't give a crap that the making of your cell phone/TV, car, oh, name it...costs innocent people their lives. Reality...we live well because other people are exploited. We (our country) have killed hundreds of thousands of people for our economic benefit. And you are OK with that. You are. And that is funny because you claim to care about innocent lives. Yeah, that they live, perhaps...but not how they live, or how we help them die.

I'm perfectly OK with other people dying and suffering to benefit me. In reality, you are OK with it, too.

So it is funny that pro-life people are concerned about the life of a fetus, but no so concerned about how that fetus ends up living...or dying...so long as the pro-life people's lifestyles aren't negatively impacted.

Crushed it. Modeator Kitteh, lock this baby up.
/motherfuckingthread

[89Hen]

Crushed it. Modeator Kitteh, lock this baby up.
/motherfuckingthread

Thanks for contributing.

[89Hen]

Actually what I find hllarious is that you are BOTH "selective pro-life" as well. Matter of fact, every person who lives in this country is by your standards. Surely you're not saying we shouldn't have any laws on the books concerning murder.

You nailed it...probably without realizing it. My views don't depend on what country I was living in...or my lifestyle.

I am pro-life.

My life.

And my friends...and people who I find interesting.

Laws against general mayhem and murder directly help to protect me. Abortion (or the murder of someone's fetus) has no impact on me. No conflict at all.

I am not pro-life for anyone that I don't know. Frankly, I don't give a rats arse about people I don't know. Truth be told, you don't really care about those people either, otherwise you would not purchase breathable, comfortable golf clothing made in Vietnam, Thailand, China, or any other shit hole where people...innocent children, and work, and die, like slaves.

You don't give a crap that the making of your cell phone/TV, car, oh, name it...costs innocent people their lives. Reality...we live well because other people are exploited. We (our country) have killed hundreds of thousands of people for our economic benefit. And you are OK with that. You are. And that is funny because you claim to care about innocent lives. Yeah, that they live, perhaps...but not how they live, or how we help them die.

I'm perfectly OK with other people dying and suffering to benefit me. In reality, you are OK with it, too.

So it is funny that pro-life people are concerned about the life of a fetus, but no so concerned about how that fetus ends up living...or dying...so long as the pro-life people's lifestyles aren't negatively impacted.

A lot of what you say is correct... and then you don't stop and go too far with the last paragraph.

Everyone is a hypocrite, even the most ardent supporters of a "noble" cause (PETA, Greenpeace, etc..). However, I can't do anything to change labor laws in Vietnam other than not buy a particular shirt. You have to admit, that's not a big impact. Along those same lines, I don't do enough to help the pro-life agenda. We used to cook dinners a couple times a month for a local pregnancy center, but we haven't done that in a while. I haven't written my political leaders in a long time. I could do more. But that doesn't change my stance on this issue.

[D1B]

You nailed it...probably without realizing it. My views don't depend on what country I was living in...or my lifestyle.

I am pro-life.

My life.

And my friends...and people who I find interesting.

Laws against general mayhem and murder directly help to protect me. Abortion (or the murder of someone's fetus) has no impact on me. No conflict at all.

I am not pro-life for anyone that I don't know. Frankly, I don't give a rats arse about people I don't know. Truth be told, you don't really care about those people either, otherwise you would not purchase breathable, comfortable golf clothing made in Vietnam, Thailand, China, or any other shit hole where people...innocent children, and work, and die, like slaves.

You don't give a crap that the making of your cell phone/TV, car, oh, name it...costs innocent people their lives. Reality...we live well because other people are exploited. We (our country) have killed hundreds of thousands of people for our economic benefit. And you are OK with that. You are. And that is funny because you claim to care about innocent lives. Yeah, that they live, perhaps...but not how they live, or how we help them die.

I'm perfectly OK with other people dying and suffering to benefit me. In reality, you are OK with it, too.

So it is funny that pro-life people are concerned about the life of a fetus, but no so concerned about how that fetus ends up living...or dying...so long as the pro-life people's lifestyles aren't negatively impacted.

A lot of what you say is correct... and then you don't stop and go too far with the last paragraph.

Everyone is a hypocrite, even the most ardent supporters of a "noble" cause (PETA, Greenpeace, etc..). However, I can't do anything to change labor laws in Vietnam other than not buy a particular shirt. You have to admit, that's not a big impact. Along those same lines, I don't do enough to help the pro-life agenda. We used to cook dinners a couple times a month for a local pregnancy center, but we haven't done that in a while. I haven't written my political leaders in a long time. I could do more. But that doesn't change my stance on this issue.

Here's the truth about the "pregnancy center" that the Hens support: they are fronts for the militant pro life movement who are complete whack jobs and criminals.

They lure young women in by offering pregnancy tests and abortion services and counseling. Once in, they bombard and harass the woman with "the horrors of abortions" including the laundry list of lies they claim are supported by science. The goal being to scare the girl away from abortion with lies, threats, guilt and false promises, deception.

Fact is Planned Parenthood has prevented more abortions than all the supposed prolife groups combined.

You wanna end abortion, support PP.


Message to Hens- leave those women alone and mind your own fucking business.

[D1B]

You nailed it...probably without realizing it. My views don't depend on what country I was living in...or my lifestyle.

I am pro-life.

My life.

And my friends...and people who I find interesting.

Laws against general mayhem and murder directly help to protect me. Abortion (or the murder of someone's fetus) has no impact on me. No conflict at all.

I am not pro-life for anyone that I don't know. Frankly, I don't give a rats arse about people I don't know. Truth be told, you don't really care about those people either, otherwise you would not purchase breathable, comfortable golf clothing made in Vietnam, Thailand, China, or any other shit hole where people...innocent children, and work, and die, like slaves.

You don't give a crap that the making of your cell phone/TV, car, oh, name it...costs innocent people their lives. Reality...we live well because other people are exploited. We (our country) have killed hundreds of thousands of people for our economic benefit. And you are OK with that. You are. And that is funny because you claim to care about innocent lives. Yeah, that they live, perhaps...but not how they live, or how we help them die.

I'm perfectly OK with other people dying and suffering to benefit me. In reality, you are OK with it, too.

So it is funny that pro-life people are concerned about the life of a fetus, but no so concerned about how that fetus ends up living...or dying...so long as the pro-life people's lifestyles aren't negatively impacted.

A lot of what you say is correct... and then you don't stop and go too far with the last paragraph.

Everyone is a hypocrite, even the most ardent supporters of a "noble" cause (PETA, Greenpeace, etc..). However, I can't do anything to change labor laws in Vietnam other than not buy a particular shirt. You have to admit, that's not a big impact. Along those same lines, I don't do enough to help the pro-life agenda. We used to cook dinners a couple times a month for a local pregnancy center, but we haven't done that in a while. I haven't written my political leaders in a long time. I could do more. But that doesn't change my stance on this issue.

How bout writing your religious leaders? They have more power.

[Chizzang]

Two things:
1) I always enjoy being on Clucks side of a debate
2) It frightens me how often I am on Clucks side of a debate

[89Hen]

Two things:
1) I always enjoy being on Clucks side of a debate

Because you were getting crushed on your own.

[Chizzang]

Two things:
1) I always enjoy being on Clucks side of a debate

Because you were getting crushed on your own.

I don't seem to have any trouble handling you old man...
but never miss an opportunity to congratulate yourself

[YoUDeeMan]

I'm perfectly OK with other people dying and suffering to benefit me. In reality, you are OK with it, too.

So it is funny that pro-life people are concerned about the life of a fetus, but no so concerned about how that fetus ends up living...or dying...so long as the pro-life people's lifestyles aren't negatively impacted.

A lot of what you say is correct... and then you don't stop and go too far with the last paragraph.

Everyone is a hypocrite, even the most ardent supporters of a "noble" cause (PETA, Greenpeace, etc..). However, I can't do anything to change labor laws in Vietnam other than not buy a particular shirt. You have to admit, that's not a big impact. Along those same lines, I don't do enough to help the pro-life agenda. We used to cook dinners a couple times a month for a local pregnancy center, but we haven't done that in a while. I haven't written my political leaders in a long time. I could do more. But that doesn't change my stance on this issue.

Sure it doesn't change your stance on the issue...but it sure does sum up your choices about how you choose to live. You'd rather live comfortably and have people die for your way of life rather than live off the grid and leave no casualties.

It is quite silly to say that buying a shirt made by slaves is OK because if you didn't buy that shirt (oh, such a sacrifice you'd be making) it would not make that much difference. That goes right back to the study that shows people care more about, or relate better towards, one person suffering in a picture versus a group of people suffering.

At some point, somewhere inside of us, it becomes OK not to care about the lives of others when it stops being about individuals.

We are dropping bombs on people in multiple countries, and you'd be hard pressed to find a time we weren't. And, despite the rhetoric to the contrary, we aren't bombing and killing a bunch of people that were going to attack you tomorrow. We ousted Ghaddaffi for what...to bring peace to Libya? We want Assad out for what reason? Why did we oust a Democratically elected leader of Egypt...right after we supported a revolution that would give people Democracy? Why are we dealing with the Kurds? Why are we supporting the countries we support? We are still in Afghanistan...why?

This isn't rocket science...we kill for resources. Always have, always will. Sure, it isn't advertised as murder, but it sure is murder. Casualties of a necessary war? Huh? That is only true if you say that the war is necessary for you to drive your car. Progress, 89. We kill for progress. Lots of innocent people die for your shirts, your phone, your car, and your standard of living.

And you are OK with that. You really are.

And I don't think that is a bad thing.

[89Hen]

So what's you point Cluck? How does this in any way negate or diminish the validity of a pro-life stance on abortion?

[Pwns]

Cluck, everything you are saying is just a bunch of red herrings…what it comes down to is equal protection under the law and the legal personhood of the unborn. The unborn (especially in later stages) are people by any objective scientific measure.

You could justify infanticide with everything here that you have said. Couldn't you just also say it's hypocritical that we want our lives protected by the law but also don't care about brown children dying from wars for Halliburton or rare-Earth minerals or what not?

[Chizzang]

Hen and Pwns...
What has been laid out in plain sight (that you don't see)
Is that your argument in the face of the entire spectrum is simply personal Religious motivation

And that is all it is... Your Religious View
And that is entirely why your pet faith lacks perspective and a sense of grounded reality



Queue CID1990 for his 0.001% perspective... But But I'm not Religious

[Baldy]

Hen and Pwns...
What has been laid out in plain sight (that you don't see)
Is that your argument in the face of the entire spectrum is simply personal Religious motivation

And that is all it is... Your Religious View
And that is entirely why your pet faith lacks perspective and a sense of grounded reality



Queue CID1990 for his 0.001% perspective... But But I'm not Religious

What about atheists or agnostics or a-religious people who are against abortion?

Is their stance driven by their "Religious Views" as well?

Are they able to have a moral stance against abortion without any presence of religion?

[Pwns]

Hen and Pwns...
What has been laid out in plain sight (that you don't see)
Is that your argument in the face of the entire spectrum is simply personal Religious motivation

And that is all it is... Your Religious View
And that is entirely why your pet faith lacks perspective and a sense of grounded reality



Queue CID1990 for his 0.001% perspective... But But I'm not Religious

I'm so glad that I have you can read my mind and perform my self-psychoanalysis for me.

I can pretty much promise you that if my religious views affected my political views that my political views would be a good bit different.

BTW, I have a litmus test for what makes a bad pro-abortion argument…if you can use it to justify infanticide then it's a bad argument. That test fits a lot of what you and Cluck say on this thread…

"If you don't like post-birth abortions don't have one."
"Mind your own business. Not everyone believes infants are people. Stop imposing your religious beliefs on people."
"Are you going to adopt all of the unwanted infants out there?"
"We kill brown children in Africa for Halliburton and the petrodollar so why should infant's lives be protected by the law?"

[89Hen]

Hen and Pwns...
What has been laid out in plain sight (that you don't see)
Is that your argument in the face of the entire spectrum is simply personal Religious motivation

And that is all it is... Your Religious View
And that is entirely why your pet faith lacks perspective and a sense of grounded reality



Queue CID1990 for his 0.001% perspective... But But I'm not Religious

Not even close Cleets. My religion has zero to do with this. I can't tell if you're trolling or really this ignorant.

[D1B]

Hen and Pwns...
What has been laid out in plain sight (that you don't see)
Is that your argument in the face of the entire spectrum is simply personal Religious motivation

And that is all it is... Your Religious View
And that is entirely why your pet faith lacks perspective and a sense of grounded reality



Queue CID1990 for his 0.001% perspective... But But I'm not Religious

Not even close Cleets. My religion has zero to do with this. I can't tell if you're trolling or really this ignorant.

You're oblivious that it has shaped your worldview. That's the result of brainwashing.

I grew up catholic and was exposed to their suffocating pro life campaigns and messages, all of which you parrot.

Time to grow up, Hen.

[Chizzang]

Hen and Pwns...
What has been laid out in plain sight (that you don't see)
Is that your argument in the face of the entire spectrum is simply personal Religious motivation

And that is all it is... Your Religious View
And that is entirely why your pet faith lacks perspective and a sense of grounded reality



Queue CID1990 for his 0.001% perspective... But But I'm not Religious

What about atheists or agnostics or a-religious people who are against abortion?

Is their stance driven by their "Religious Views" as well?

Are they able to have a moral stance against abortion without any presence of religion?

Everybody is against abortion to some degree or another...
Its only Religious zealots who think the government needs to endorse their faith

everybody else is on principal against it... they are just sane about it
and capable of putting abortion in a global perspective



and also:
Nobody is more comfortable with deceit and lies than a Fundamentalist

[89Hen]

Its only Religious zealots who think the government needs to endorse their faith

everybody else is on principal against it... they are just sane about it
and capable of putting abortion in a global perspective



and also:
Nobody is more comfortable with deceit and lies than a Fundamentalist

Now I know you're trolling.

[Baldy]

What about atheists or agnostics or a-religious people who are against abortion?

Is their stance driven by their "Religious Views" as well?

Are they able to have a moral stance against abortion without any presence of religion?

Everybody is against abortion to some degree or another...
Its only Religious zealots who think the government needs to endorse their faith

everybody else is on principal against it... they are just sane about it
and capable of putting abortion in a global perspective



and also:
Nobody is more comfortable with deceit and lies than a Fundamentalist

So abortion is a "necessary evil"?

[CID1990]

Hen and Pwns...
What has been laid out in plain sight (that you don't see)
Is that your argument in the face of the entire spectrum is simply personal Religious motivation

And that is all it is... Your Religious View
And that is entirely why your pet faith lacks perspective and a sense of grounded reality



Queue CID1990 for his 0.001% perspective... But But I'm not Religious

ok cheese dip Ill bite

you're correct - Im not religious

and you'll note that I only say that late term abortion is a hideous practice

I've never said that it should be illegal, either - I think it is way too easy to get into the weeds on that one and then suddenly youre a hypocrite or you hate women or whatever other appeal to emotion the proabortionists will throw at you....

I think the fetus can feel pain at some point during gestation - I think there is a point beyond which the "mass of cells" argument departs from science (ironic) ... and I dont have a remedy to offer - I simply think it is atrocious

I dont have to offer a solution to every moral issue in the world - Ill leave that to you

[D1B]

Everybody is against abortion to some degree or another...
Its only Religious zealots who think the government needs to endorse their faith

everybody else is on principal against it... they are just sane about it
and capable of putting abortion in a global perspective



and also:
Nobody is more comfortable with deceit and lies than a Fundamentalist

So abortion is a "necessary evil"?

It's not evil to save the life of a mother, the result of rape or incest.

aint evil if they're the victims of fucking churches like yours making it impossible to secure birth control

aint evil if the mother has AIDS

It's not evil if the father is some shithead like Alphagriz and envisions a life of misery for the child

aint evil if the mother is too young, mentally infirm or cannot provide a decent life for a child

aint evil if the mother is not ready to give up her entire life and or be impoverished by a pregnancy

aint evil if the mother was pressured into sex

Thanks to orgs like planned parenthood, abortions are at an all time low and going lower.

Guys like you Hen and your fucking church aint foolin anyone. Go ahead with your false outrage but we all know you're only interested in controlling the sex lives of women. Your church has been doin it for years.

visit plannedparenthood.org to make a donation to end abortion.

[D1B]

Hen and Pwns...
What has been laid out in plain sight (that you don't see)
Is that your argument in the face of the entire spectrum is simply personal Religious motivation

And that is all it is... Your Religious View
And that is entirely why your pet faith lacks perspective and a sense of grounded reality



Queue CID1990 for his 0.001% perspective... But But I'm not Religious

ok cheese dip Ill bite

you're correct - Im not religious

and you'll note that I only say that late term abortion is a hideous practice

I've never said that it should be illegal, either - I think it is way too easy to get into the weeds on that one and then suddenly youre a hypocrite or you hate women or whatever other appeal to emotion the proabortionists will throw at you....

I think the fetus can feel pain at some point during gestation - I think there is a point beyond which the "mass of cells" argument departs from science (ironic) ... and I dont have a remedy to offer - I simply think it is atrocious

I dont have to offer a solution to every moral issue in the world - Ill leave that to you

Listen fence rider, child bearing is a very fucking serious women's health issue. it's kept them in bondage for thousands of years. Grow a pair and realize this.

number one poverty and homeless demographic, world wide, is women, children and women with children. Think about it.

[Chizzang]

Hen and Pwns...
What has been laid out in plain sight (that you don't see)
Is that your argument in the face of the entire spectrum is simply personal Religious motivation

And that is all it is... Your Religious View
And that is entirely why your pet faith lacks perspective and a sense of grounded reality



Queue CID1990 for his 0.001% perspective... But But I'm not Religious

ok cheese dip Ill bite

you're correct - Im not religious

and you'll note that I only say that late term abortion is a hideous practice

I've never said that it should be illegal, either - I think it is way too easy to get into the weeds on that one and then suddenly youre a hypocrite or you hate women or whatever other appeal to emotion the proabortionists will throw at you....

I think the fetus can feel pain at some point during gestation - I think there is a point beyond which the "mass of cells" argument departs from science (ironic) ... and I dont have a remedy to offer - I simply think it is atrocious

I dont have to offer a solution to every moral issue in the world - Ill leave that to you

Cheese Dip...
BTW: That's mine - I used that on D1B years ago on here
and nobody is more suspicious of "Morality" as a reason for anything - on this forum than I am
(maybe only Cluck is more adamantly questioning of morality)

I have no moral solutions either
Nowhere in my argument do I put forth a moral solution

But I will punch holes all day long in the idea that abortion is blanket statement: immoral
Because that's a level of bullsh!t so deep and so deceptive only a Fundamentalists is inclined to stand there