Coronavirus COVID-19

[SeattleGriz]

Here's a typical reply from the "establishment", former Surgeon General being a total dick to the lady who exposed the CDC for citing faulty data in regards to children's Covid deaths.

Notice his appeal to authority with a little crybully thrown in. Yes, he knows what he's talking about. Hack. Glad Kulldorff set him straight.

[JohnStOnge]

Here's a typical reply from the "establishment", former Surgeon General being a total dick to the lady who exposed the CDC for citing faulty data in regards to children's Covid deaths.

Notice his appeal to authority with a little crybully thrown in. Yes, he knows what he's talking about. Hack. Glad Kulldorff set him straight.

So who are the dozen doctors and scientists who have done this their whole careers?

In looking at this I have seen some quibbling over whether it's top 5 or top 10.

[JohnStOnge]

BTW, Kulldorff is a 'Great Barrington Declaration" guy. As you know, that declaration has been widely panned by the mainstream of the public health community. He's not the best person to cite about things like this. Yes, he's got excellent credentials. But he represents a fringe viewpoint.

[SeattleGriz]

BTW, Kulldorff is a 'Great Barrington Declaration" guy. As you know, that declaration has been widely panned by the mainstream of the public health community. He's not the best person to cite about things like this. Yes, he's got excellent credentials. But he represents a fringe viewpoint.

Simple question. Have you taken any college level courses in either Virology or Immunology and Serology? I'm not trying to use credentialism here, but this is where you struggle to understand common concepts.

Kulldorff and other Barrington authors used common sense to come up with their plan. Would have been very similar to Sweden. Things worked out pretty well for Sweden in regards to no learning loss and their economy didn't suffer like everyone else's. The belief that zero Covid was ever possible, was, and continues to be beaten to crap and relegated to the failed experiment pile.

What other pandemic did we lock down for if it was such a tried and true methodology? You should be able to refer to multiple instances, right?

And? Have you?

[JohnStOnge]

There is no evidence that the variants that have caused problems are the result of selective pressure the vaccines placed on the virus. Both Delta and Omicron arose under low vaccination rate circumstances.

With respect to your statement about stats on vaccinated cases, hospitalizations, and deaths, here is a report from Washington State:

https://doh.wa.gov/sites/default/files/ ... inated.pdf

I'm sorry I haven't been here much lately. I've been doing other things.

BTW, nobody would say vaccines would be a dead end for the virus given the problem we've had with the kind of anti vaccine nonsense that's been going around and being believed by way too many people. The United States still only has a 67% fully vaccinated rate. Plus, really, true "fully vaccinated" at this point includes getting the initial series then getting boosted and we only have 32% of the population that's done that.

Fauci called it a dead end bro.

In regards to vaccine evasion due to selective pressure, how are you explaining VE's of over -400% for the vaccinated with Omicron?

If you're not buying that, how do you explain bacteria becoming antibiotic resistant? Same pressure/natural selection process.

Welcome back by the way!

Also looking to find an old study from a couple months ago from Michigan State in which they looked at the vaccine and predicted which changes would happen due to selective pressure and they were right, showing said pressure caused the virus to mutate. I bookmark interesting studies and unfortunately cleared out my bookmarks because I got tired of scrolling through so many and never looking at them.

I looked it up and saw that Fauci said, in early 2021, that an individual was likely to be a "dead end" for the virus even if they were asymptomatically infected because viral levels in the nasopharynx of such people would be "...so low it makes it extremely unlikely — not impossible but very, very low likelihood — that they’re going to transmit it." That was true at the time with the variants in circulation. I don't know the extent to which vaccination reduces risk of transmission from the infected individual with Omicron.

But nobody would have said that, on a population level, vaccination would be a dead end for the virus with the kind of vaccination rates we have achieved.

Can you link a study in which the authors concluded that there was actually over a -400% vaccine effectiveness with Omicron? I know I saw you post one study one time where you interpreted a figure as showing a negative vaccine effectiveness rate but the authors said it was not likely that such was the case. Do you have something else?

Bacterial populations becoming antibiotic resistant is natural selection but I don't think it's quite the same thing. With bacterial resistance you are not talking about the body's immune system fighting off bacteria. You are talking about putting a substance into the body that kills the bacteria. What you're talking about with bacteria is training the body to produce an immune response more quickly. It may not be the same as natural immunity. But it's similar.

If one is going to say that vaccination is going to select for resistant strains then natural immune response will also select for resistant strains.

In any case, the fact is that the strains that have caused us problems as time went on, Delta and Omicron, both arose in populations with low vaccination rates. Delta was first detected in India in December, 2020. The Pfizer vaccine was approved on December 11, 2020. If you look up the vaccination rate in India in December 2020 you will see a zero. Omicron was first identified in South Africa in November, 2021. The "fully vaccinated" rate in South Africa at the end of November 2021 was 24%.

As of now, according to Our World in Data (https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/vaccines/international), South Africa has a 32% fully vaccinated rate. That makes it 124th among 177 jurisdictions for which rates are reported. The median rate is 53%. So, by any reasonable standard, Omicron was first identified in a low vaccination rate country.

While that doesn't rule out the possibility that selective pressure could lead to problematic variants, it certainly doesn't provide any indication that the Delta and Omicron variants arose due to such selective pressure.

Again: The consensus among epidemiologist appears to be that quickly achieving high vaccination rates would decrease the likelihood of having new variants emerge rather than increase it. Here is one discussion of that outlook:

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/02/ ... fa92db51d/

It has some interesting things in it. This is one:

Whether there are infectious copies of the virus in someone can only be accurately assessed by extracting the virus, adding it to cells in a lab and seeing if more viral particles are created. Studies have shown that detecting the virus’s genetic material doesn’t always mean infectious virus is present.

Indeed, a recent Swiss preprint suggests that measuring viral load by qPCR at a single time point doesn’t tell the whole story. This study measured the amount of virus in samples from 384 infected people for five consecutive days after their symptoms started.

Results showed people had comparable levels of the virus’s genetic material in their system on each day of testing, regardless of vaccination status. However, if virus infectivity was measured using replication in cells, viral load was much lower in vaccinated people overall and fell faster over the five days.

And yes that study looked at Omicron.

[JohnStOnge]

What the hell is wrong with people? How is it that people vote for people like this guy:

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politic ... s-vaccine/

So, he wants Elmo to cite scientific evidence for vaccinating children under 5?

He's just interested in pandering to the kooks who form a critical mass of the Republican base right now.

[JohnStOnge]

BTW, we had the most deaths ever in people 0 - 17 from influenza during the 2019-2020 influenza season. The number was 199. See https://www.cdc.gov/flu/spotlights/2020 ... w-high.htm. Notice that the writer stated, "This tragic milestone underscores the importance of vaccinating children." So that's the deal with influenza.

We had 609 COVID-19 deaths in that age range during 2021 and, as I type, we've had 255 COVID-19 deaths in that age range during 2022. See https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... #SexAndAge. Some perspective for demagogue Cruz.

As far as "under 5" goes: The influenza deaths link I provided says there were 87 among children under 5 during the 2019-2020 influenza season. I can't find COVID-19 numbers for a single year on that age group. But a table at https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-C ... /nr4s-juj3 indicates 442 deaths in that age group during the period 1/4/2020 through 5/28/2022. That works out to a rate of 185 per year.

So, yeah, COVID-19 has been a lot worse with respect to deaths among children under 5 than influenza was during the annual influenza season on record for pediatric seasonal influenza deaths.

[SeattleGriz]

What the hell is wrong with people? How is it that people vote for people like this guy:

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politic ... s-vaccine/

So, he wants Elmo to cite scientific evidence for vaccinating children under 5?

He's just interested in pandering to the kooks who form a critical mass of the Republican base right now.

Because there wasn't any evidence it was beneficial.

[SeattleGriz]

BTW, we had the most deaths ever in people 0 - 17 from influenza during the 2019-2020 influenza season. The number was 199. See https://www.cdc.gov/flu/spotlights/2020 ... w-high.htm. Notice that the writer stated, "This tragic milestone underscores the importance of vaccinating children." So that's the deal with influenza.

We had 609 COVID-19 deaths in that age range during 2021 and, as I type, we've had 255 COVID-19 deaths in that age range during 2022. See https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... #SexAndAge. Some perspective for demagogue Cruz.

As far as "under 5" goes: The influenza deaths link I provided says there were 87 among children under 5 during the 2019-2020 influenza season. I can't find COVID-19 numbers for a single year on that age group. But a table at https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-C ... /nr4s-juj3 indicates 442 deaths in that age group during the period 1/4/2020 through 5/28/2022. That works out to a rate of 185 per year.

So, yeah, COVID-19 has been a lot worse with respect to deaths among children under 5 than influenza was during the annual influenza season on record for pediatric seasonal influenza deaths.

Read through some of these and tell me what you think about pediatric deaths being "from" Covid. There are 100 cases listed out by codes and descriptions. Have to click into the tweet to get to the deaths.

[SeattleGriz]

BTW, Kulldorff is a 'Great Barrington Declaration" guy. As you know, that declaration has been widely panned by the mainstream of the public health community. He's not the best person to cite about things like this. Yes, he's got excellent credentials. But he represents a fringe viewpoint.

Simple question. Have you taken any college level courses in either Virology or Immunology and Serology? I'm not trying to use credentialism here, but this is where you struggle to understand common concepts.

Kulldorff and other Barrington authors used common sense to come up with their plan. Would have been very similar to Sweden. Things worked out pretty well for Sweden in regards to no learning loss and their economy didn't suffer like everyone else's. The belief that zero Covid was ever possible, was, and continues to be beaten to crap and relegated to the failed experiment pile.

What other pandemic did we lock down for if it was such a tried and true methodology? You should be able to refer to multiple instances, right?

And? Have you?

Still waiting on you telling us your credentials in the field of Immunology and Serology or Virology

[UNI88]

Simple question. Have you taken any college level courses in either Virology or Immunology and Serology? I'm not trying to use credentialism here, but this is where you struggle to understand common concepts.

Kulldorff and other Barrington authors used common sense to come up with their plan. Would have been very similar to Sweden. Things worked out pretty well for Sweden in regards to no learning loss and their economy didn't suffer like everyone else's. The belief that zero Covid was ever possible, was, and continues to be beaten to crap and relegated to the failed experiment pile.

What other pandemic did we lock down for if it was such a tried and true methodology? You should be able to refer to multiple instances, right?

And? Have you?

Still waiting on you telling us your credentials in the field of Immunology and Serology or Virology

JSO won first place at a Junior High Science Fair! He's qualified to pontificate on any number of topics

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

[AZGrizFan]

Simple question. Have you taken any college level courses in either Virology or Immunology and Serology? I'm not trying to use credentialism here, but this is where you struggle to understand common concepts.

Kulldorff and other Barrington authors used common sense to come up with their plan. Would have been very similar to Sweden. Things worked out pretty well for Sweden in regards to no learning loss and their economy didn't suffer like everyone else's. The belief that zero Covid was ever possible, was, and continues to be beaten to crap and relegated to the failed experiment pile.

What other pandemic did we lock down for if it was such a tried and true methodology? You should be able to refer to multiple instances, right?

And? Have you?

Still waiting on you telling us your credentials in the field of Immunology and Serology or Virology

Don’t feel bad, SG. Apparently his statistics degree didn’t require any economics courses either.

[SeattleGriz]

The premier epidemiological institution in the world stated they were going to run reports on the Vaccine Adverse Event System so they could look for signals exposing issues with the vaccines. Haven't run a report or even looked. Nothing to see here.

[BDKJMU]

COVID Boosters Might Be Less Than 20% Effective After a Few Months: Study
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronav ... y/3766207/

[SeattleGriz]

Never thought it would be Europe that came to their senses first.

[SeattleGriz]

Went to a concert at Climate Pledge Arena in Seattle and masks are not required, but 95% of the fans still wore them. As I was walking down my row to go to the restroom, a fat chick with bad hair told me to "get a mask". I ignored her.

[BDKJMU]

Went to a concert at Climate Pledge Arena in Seattle and masks are not required, but 95% of the fans still wore them. As I was walking down my row to go to the restroom, a fat chick with bad hair told me to "get a mask". I ignored her.

Well that explains it right there.

[UNI88]

Went to a concert at Climate Pledge Arena in Seattle and masks are not required, but 95% of the fans still wore them. As I was walking down my row to go to the restroom, a fat chick with bad hair told me to "get a mask". I ignored her.

Was she throwing streamers too?

[SeattleGriz]

Went to a concert at Climate Pledge Arena in Seattle and masks are not required, but 95% of the fans still wore them. As I was walking down my row to go to the restroom, a fat chick with bad hair told me to "get a mask". I ignored her.

Well that explains it right there.

It was the old Supersonics arena, redone for the Seattle Kraken hockey team. Was really nice.

[SeattleGriz]

Went to a concert at Climate Pledge Arena in Seattle and masks are not required, but 95% of the fans still wore them. As I was walking down my row to go to the restroom, a fat chick with bad hair told me to "get a mask". I ignored her.

Was she throwing streamers too?

She wasn't the streamer type. Mostly the angry type.

[BDKJMU]

Well that explains it right there.

It was the old Supersonics arena, redone for the Seattle Kraken hockey team. Was really nice.

Why in the heck was it named it ‘Climate Pledge’ arena?

[SeattleGriz]

It was the old Supersonics arena, redone for the Seattle Kraken hockey team. Was really nice.

Why in the heck was it named it ‘Climate Pledge’ arena?

Because it's Seattle, but I think more substantively wise, because they remodeling an old structure instead of tearing it down and starting new. Used as much "green" methods/materials as they could. I roll my eyes at the name as well, but it was really cool inside.

[SDHornet]

[BDKJMU]

What a joke. The most destructive health sector bureaucrat in the history of the country will be getting a pension bigger than the POTUS salary
https://openthebooks.substack.com/p/dr- ... ion-414667

[SeattleGriz]

He's even had COVID and thus has far superior protection than just the vaccine. It was never about science.