Coronavirus COVID-19

[SeattleGriz]

I will expound a bit as soon as Klam answers my question.

So according to Seagriz I don’t really need the flu shot despite my compromised immune system. Do you agree?

Are all previous vaccines against viruses such? Of just corona viruses or just airborne viruses?

Am I, my family, all of my sibs and my wife’s sibs, and almost all of our closest friends just lucky? (Not all of them could socially isolate, and two are nurses who worked Covid wards.

No, you should get the shot if your doctor says so. While it won't prevent you from catching it, the vaccine should make it so IF you do catch it, the case will be mild.

I won't get into this too far, but guys like Eric Topol are finally talking about making the vaccines ones that you sniff up the nose. If we can train the mucosa, like it does when you normally catch a virus, that would really help the flu and COVID shots.

The mucosa is the first line of defense and we bypass that when we inject vaccines. When the doctor recommends flu shots for my kids, I've always requested the nasal versions. Actually stated in this thread multiple times that if you could create a whole attenuated virus that you sniff for COVID, I'd be fine with that.

[SeattleGriz]

I believe the COVID vaccines were the most tested vaccines in human history before being rolled out. And don't quote me on this, but I believe it is now the most studied vaccine in human history as well, surpassing polio vaccination data.

Like the polio vaccines, they were rolled out to the entire world so we have a TON of data at this point.

And like you, I'm not worried about the long-term issues based on my rudimentary knowledge of microbiology (which coincidentally, I'm taking now. And even more coincidentally, we're currently studying DNA replication including mRNA).

You sounded like you had been studying up on the subject.

I think the big issue is that the really informative data has not been available for public consumption and inspection.

Just recently the UK Public Health had to retract their statements on the vaccine because the public analyzed their data and showed it was incorrect. They were undercounting the unvaccinated and it made them look much worse than they really were.

[∞∞∞]

I believe the COVID vaccines were the most tested vaccines in human history before being rolled out. And don't quote me on this, but I believe it is now the most studied vaccine in human history as well, surpassing polio vaccination data.

Like the polio vaccines, they were rolled out to the entire world so we have a TON of data at this point.

And like you, I'm not worried about the long-term issues based on my rudimentary knowledge of microbiology (which coincidentally, I'm taking now. And even more coincidentally, we're currently studying DNA replication including mRNA).

You sounded like you had been studying up on the subject.

I think the big issue is that the really informative data has not been available for public consumption and inspection.

Just recently the UK Public Health had to retract their statements on the vaccine because the public analyzed their data and showed it was incorrect. They were undercounting the unvaccinated and it made them look much worse than they really were.

I haven't read up on the UK case, but there is often a disconnect between what scientific studies are saying and what public health officials interpret (or misinterpret). People in public health don't necessarily have scientific backgrounds, and while there should be dialogue between researchers and public health officials/bureaucrats, it can wildly vary based on how things are structured at every level of government.

It doesn't help that - at least in the US (but mostly elsewhere too) - people have an elementary understanding of the scientific process. We want solutions and we want them now, and if it doesn't fit our world view or we don't like what the science is saying, then it's incorrect or ignored.

edit: that said, the data IS pretty much all available to the public. But it's usually behind a lot of subscriptions. You can often get it for free - if you know what you're looking for - through your public library. College students typically have access as well.

Of course none of this is easy for the regular person to get.

[SeattleGriz]

You sounded like you had been studying up on the subject.

I think the big issue is that the really informative data has not been available for public consumption and inspection.

Just recently the UK Public Health had to retract their statements on the vaccine because the public analyzed their data and showed it was incorrect. They were undercounting the unvaccinated and it made them look much worse than they really were.

I haven't read up on the UK case, but there is often a disconnect between what scientific studies are saying and what public health officials interpret (or misinterpret). People in public health don't necessarily have scientific backgrounds, and while there should be dialogue between researchers and public health officials/bureaucrats, it can wildly vary based on how things are structured at every level of government.

It doesn't help that - at least in the US (but mostly elsewhere too) - people have an elementary understanding of the scientific process. We want solutions and we want them now, and if it doesn't fit our world view or we don't like what the science is saying, then it's incorrect or ignored.

75% of America is considered scientifically illiterate.

[SDHornet]

Watching the narratives debunking all the "conspiracy theories" from a few years ago collapse recently has been very enjoyable.

The vindication from withstanding all the propaganda spewed by the global pressure campaign and making the pull to not put that garbage "vaccine" in me or my kids' body is amazing. The peace of mind knowing I never have to worry about any side effects from that experimental gene therapy drug showing up in me or my kid is inexplicable.

In a perfect world, the narrative would move on to the retribution of those who forced this onto the masses, unfortunately I think most of all of the folks involved in this will get off free and clear.

Exactly. What are the chances that a novel corona virus with some connection to bats, pops up for the 1st time on the entire planet, within a couple of miles of a bio safety level 4 or whatever lab in China, that is studying novel corona viruses in bats, and doing gain of function research. And yet we were the conspiracy theorists back in early 2020-2021..

Also vindication calling it the China Virus throughout the nonsensical narrative...that's called a win.

[SDHornet]

Your biased opinion doesn't move the needle. I will revise my opinion that SG has been right more than JSO on this thread if Ganny and Ibanez tell me that I'm wrong and JSO has been right more than SG.

I am not Ganny or Ibanez (shudder.....), but I will give you my .

COVID was accidentally released from a shoddy Chinese lab that was directly funded by the EcoHealth Alliance doing gain of function research that was illegal to do here in the U.S. and those funds were directed to EcoHealth Alliance at the orders of Fauci, as an end run around the rules he didn't agree with or as a way to funnel money into other areas for favors (there are probably multiple reasons, both good and bad that the money went were it did).

The coverup/suppression of the above started within weeks (February 2020) when Fauci realized that his name would come out as a primary funder of the research that directly led to this. He did what any career bureaucrat excels at, and that is muddying the waters enough to divert attention away from anything that hinted it might come back to implicate him (i.e. the commissioned paper that it wasn't from a lab). Throw in the media's revulsion of all things Trump and he had a willing patsy to peddle his false narrative that Trump's comments on it might be from a lab were wrong. Once the narrative was set and rolling, it took on a life of its own as people in power (media, politicians, etc.) had a vested interest in keeping it going, because to do otherwise would imply that they were wrong. Spreading around millions in new grant dollars and holding hostage existing grant dollars via proxy (they would go away if people started digging into COVID's origins), meant that Fauci (and others) had significant reason in doing what they did.

The COVID shot aka "vaccine" (and the furor around it) was peddled to keep the above narrative going and as a distraction from people digging into the history of where COVID 19 came from. The narrative snowballed into justifying lock-downs, mass forced shots, and usurpation of freedoms (making hay while the sun shines), etc.. The COVID shot is nothing more than a glorified flu shot and designed to help boost the immune system of those that are most susceptible to COVID. Basically those 55+ and immunocompromised, the rest of us really didn't need it, provided we are moderately healthy but needed to be evaluated on a personal basis. But good business for Big Pharma, hence the mandates.

The mask stupidity (and it was full blown stupidity not even remotely based in anything related to science due to the vast environmental circumstances around wearing one) was one more thing trotted out to help divert attention from the origins and keep a segment of the population under control and to project the idea that the "government" knew what was best (see first paragraph why they wanted to portray this).

The whole last three or so years is easily explainable through people not wanting to admit they were wrong (ego), people realizing they would be caught breaking the law, and people believing the government had their best interest in mind (this last point is my opinion and is greatly dependent on ones political and mental processes).

Brilliant post.

[SDHornet]

What a bunch of complete nonsense.

Only 6 words.

Next time I will mention Trump more.

[SDHornet]

I just listen to my doctor. She said to take the booster every 6 months, so I'll take it every six months. Flu shot every year? I'll take it every year. She went to medical school for God-knows-how-long and...I did not.

They're free shots which temporarily boost my immune system, I've always listened to my doctor, and she's kept me alive and fairly healthy so far. I'd like to think it's a crappy business model if she let her clients die from preventable diseases.

But hey, medical autonomy is a thing.

I can't think of a profession that has had such a hit to its credibility than doctors during the China Virus response. The fact that doctors bought in to pedaling a "vaccine" that offers virtually no protection for those at low risk is mind boggling. So glad I didn't follow my doctor's advice when he recommended I get the "vaccine". The look of on his face when I quoted CADPH stats back at him that justified my stance left him speechless and all he was able to do was regurgitate MSM talking points was quite telling...yeah I have a new doctor now.

[SeattleGriz]

I just listen to my doctor. She said to take the booster every 6 months, so I'll take it every six months. Flu shot every year? I'll take it every year. She went to medical school for God-knows-how-long and...I did not.

They're free shots which temporarily boost my immune system, I've always listened to my doctor, and she's kept me alive and fairly healthy so far. I'd like to think it's a crappy business model if she let her clients die from preventable diseases.

But hey, medical autonomy is a thing.

I can't think of a profession that has had such a hit to its credibility than doctors during the China Virus response. The fact that doctors bought in to pedaling a "vaccine" that offers virtually no protection for those at low risk is mind boggling. So glad I didn't follow my doctor's advice when he recommended I get the "vaccine". The look of on his face when I quoted CADPH stats back at him that justified my stance left him speechless and all he was able to do was regurgitate MSM talking points was quite telling...yeah I have a new doctor now.

Trip is studying to be a nurse, and while I can't congratulate him enough, he will change his mind once he is in the profession. Not saying it will be bad, but he'll see how the science is never really settled and he will go off of experience instead of being told what to do. Trip is going to be alright and probably a really great nurse. He's smart, and has a good heart.

[SeattleGriz]

I will expound a bit as soon as Klam answers my question.

So according to Seagriz I don’t really need the flu shot despite my compromised immune system. Do you agree?

Are all previous vaccines against viruses such? Of just corona viruses or just airborne viruses?

Am I, my family, all of my sibs and my wife’s sibs, and almost all of our closest friends just lucky? (Not all of them could socially isolate, and two are nurses who worked Covid wards.

I needed to post again, as you threw a lot of spaghetti against the wall.

First off, back in 2009 when my wife was going through chemo for bone cancer, which from what I have been told is a top three nastiest chemo, we all got vaccinated and socially isolated. We were COVID before COVID was cool. The point? Do what you need to do protect your family regardless of what everyone thinks.

Secondly. Do you not understand that COVID wasn't from another planet? It was a mutation of a virus/es we have seen before, hence the fact many have pre-existing levels of immunity. Your adherence to the "novel" aspect is terribly uninformed. It's seems intentional.

You really think the vax prevented your family from getting COVID? Previous infections with viruses like OC43 lent protection, just like those on the Diamond Princess cruise ship. None of my family has been vaccinated and none of us has "caught" COVID as far as we know. Daughter had a positive back during delta, but it was a rapid and she only had a sore throat one day and headache the next and done.

[kalm]

So according to Seagriz I don’t really need the flu shot despite my compromised immune system. Do you agree?

Are all previous vaccines against viruses such? Of just corona viruses or just airborne viruses?

Am I, my family, all of my sibs and my wife’s sibs, and almost all of our closest friends just lucky? (Not all of them could socially isolate, and two are nurses who worked Covid wards.

I needed to post again, as you threw a lot of spaghetti against the wall.

First off, back in 2009 when my wife was going through chemo for bone cancer, which from what I have been told is a top three nastiest chemo, we all got vaccinated and socially isolated. We were COVID before COVID was cool. The point? Do what you need to do protect your family regardless of what everyone thinks.

Secondly. Do you not understand that COVID wasn't from another planet? It was a mutation of a virus/es we have seen before, hence the fact many have pre-existing levels of immunity. Your adherence to the "novel" aspect is terribly uninformed. It's seems intentional.

You really think the vax prevented your family from getting COVID? Previous infections with viruses like OC43 lent protection, just like those on the Diamond Princess cruise ship. None of my family has been vaccinated and none of us has "caught" COVID as far as we know. Daughter had a positive back during delta, but it was a rapid and she only had a sore throat one day and headache the next and done.

The big question is, why are you immunocompromised? Not trying to be a dick and if you don't want to reply, I understand, but is it from lifestyle choices?

Stage 4 liver disease. Wife is also due to spinal cord injury and psoriasis.

1,000,000+ dead in the US alone.

Community spread.

Show research on vaccinations plus community spread.

This quickly becomes a philosophical issue about suffering, life, and long term consequences vs. politics, economics and freedom.

[SeattleGriz]

I needed to post again, as you threw a lot of spaghetti against the wall.

First off, back in 2009 when my wife was going through chemo for bone cancer, which from what I have been told is a top three nastiest chemo, we all got vaccinated and socially isolated. We were COVID before COVID was cool. The point? Do what you need to do protect your family regardless of what everyone thinks.

Secondly. Do you not understand that COVID wasn't from another planet? It was a mutation of a virus/es we have seen before, hence the fact many have pre-existing levels of immunity. Your adherence to the "novel" aspect is terribly uninformed. It's seems intentional.

You really think the vax prevented your family from getting COVID? Previous infections with viruses like OC43 lent protection, just like those on the Diamond Princess cruise ship. None of my family has been vaccinated and none of us has "caught" COVID as far as we know. Daughter had a positive back during delta, but it was a rapid and she only had a sore throat one day and headache the next and done.

The big question is, why are you immunocompromised? Not trying to be a dick and if you don't want to reply, I understand, but is it from lifestyle choices?

Stage 4 liver disease. Wife is also due to spinal cord injury and psoriasis.

1,000,000+ dead in the US alone.

Community spread.

Show research on vaccinations plus community spread.

This quickly becomes a philosophical issue about suffering, life, and long term consequences vs. politics, economics and freedom.

Why hasn't the doctor "fixed you" yet? You're doing what they tell you, correct?

My point in asking is not to be a jerk, but to point out that some things are out of a person's control. You are asking a vaccine to provide a capability it is incapable of providing, in addition to advocating people take on unacceptable risk.

[kalm]

Stage 4 liver disease. Wife is also due to spinal cord injury and psoriasis.

1,000,000+ dead in the US alone.

Community spread.

Show research on vaccinations plus community spread.

This quickly becomes a philosophical issue about suffering, life, and long term consequences vs. politics, economics and freedom.

Why hasn't the doctor "fixed you" yet? You're doing what they tell you, correct?

My point in asking is not to be a jerk, but to point out that some things are out of a person's control. You are asking a vaccine to provide a capability it is incapable of providing, in addition to advocating people take on unacceptable risk.

I see.

You’re still all over the map on this one. It’s ok. Keep being you, Vizzini.

[SeattleGriz]

Why hasn't the doctor "fixed you" yet? You're doing what they tell you, correct?

My point in asking is not to be a jerk, but to point out that some things are out of a person's control. You are asking a vaccine to provide a capability it is incapable of providing, in addition to advocating people take on unacceptable risk.

I see.

You’re still all over the map on this one. It’s ok. Keep being you, Vizzini.

Then clarify what you want with facts and data. You throw out an unsupported generality and then expect people to give you the answer you want.

Bottom line. The vaccine was only beneficial to a minority of people and outside of that minority it introduced an unacceptable risk to everyone else.

[kalm]

I see.

You’re still all over the map on this one. It’s ok. Keep being you, Vizzini.

Then clarify what you want with facts and data. You throw out an unsupported generality and then expect people to give you the answer you want.

Bottom line. The vaccine was only beneficial to a minority of people and outside of that minority it introduced an unacceptable risk to everyone else.

Show the facts that support the bold statements in your 2nd paragraph.

[SeattleGriz]

Then clarify what you want with facts and data. You throw out an unsupported generality and then expect people to give you the answer you want.

Bottom line. The vaccine was only beneficial to a minority of people and outside of that minority it introduced an unacceptable risk to everyone else.

Show the facts that support the bold statements in your 2nd paragraph.

IFRs are the facts. It's what I used to determine whether my children (3 in 1,000,000) and myself (13 in 10,000) will die if we catch COVID.

In regards to the vaccine, VAERS, which Pfizer declared as "robust" and worthy of tracking long term effects, shows this vaccine is a mauler compared to other vaccines.

[kalm]

Show the facts that support the bold statements in your 2nd paragraph.

IFRs are the facts. It's what I used to determine whether my children (3 in 1,000,000) and myself (13 in 10,000) will die if we catch COVID.

In regards to the vaccine, VAERS, which Pfizer declared as "robust" and worthy of tracking long term effects, shows this vaccine is a mauler compared to other vaccines.

How about some studies and non-biased reviews you can link to with updated findings. Surely there are some studies?

[SeattleGriz]

IFRs are the facts. It's what I used to determine whether my children (3 in 1,000,000) and myself (13 in 10,000) will die if we catch COVID.

In regards to the vaccine, VAERS, which Pfizer declared as "robust" and worthy of tracking long term effects, shows this vaccine is a mauler compared to other vaccines.

How about some studies and non-biased reviews you can link to with updated findings. Surely there are some studies?

Facts are facts. Me and my family's chances, along with millions of other's chances of vaccine injury were higher than the risk of dying, especially the younger one gets. No long term studies have been completed on the vaccine yet.

I'll even give you a real world example. Look up the Diamond Princess cruise ship that was docked off Japan in the beginning. COVID was at its most lethal. Out of 3,711 there were 7 deaths. Average age was 69. Wonder how many comorbidities those 7 had. The rest handled it quite well considering the scaremongering that was going on.

If you weren't advanced age or in poor metabolic health, you were at very little risk.

Of the 3,711 people aboard Diamond Princess on the 20 January cruise, 1,045 were crew and 2,666 were passengers.[80] The median age of the crew was 36 while the median age of the passengers was 69.[80] The passengers were 55% female and the crew was 81% male.[80] Of the 712 infections, 145 occurred in crew and 567 occurred in passengers

[GannonFan]

IFRs are the facts. It's what I used to determine whether my children (3 in 1,000,000) and myself (13 in 10,000) will die if we catch COVID.

In regards to the vaccine, VAERS, which Pfizer declared as "robust" and worthy of tracking long term effects, shows this vaccine is a mauler compared to other vaccines.

How about some studies and non-biased reviews you can link to with updated findings. Surely there are some studies?

Not to defend SG, but in this regard, wasn't this kind of brought up when they were debating whether to even release the vaccine for the under-12 crowd? I remember the CDC really debating this as it wasn't an unanimous call to recommend the vaccine to kids, given their relative lack of danger to the virus and the potential risks of the vaccine. We've always known there's some level of risk from the vaccine itself and weighing it versus the benefits has always been the calculus used.

[SeattleGriz]

How about some studies and non-biased reviews you can link to with updated findings. Surely there are some studies?

Not to defend SG, but in this regard, wasn't this kind of brought up when they were debating whether to even release the vaccine for the under-12 crowd? I remember the CDC really debating this as it wasn't an unanimous call to recommend the vaccine to kids, given their relative lack of danger to the virus and the potential risks of the vaccine. We've always known there's some level of risk from the vaccine itself and weighing it versus the benefits has always been the calculus used.

Yes it was brought up.

In addition, there were NO safety studies performed on the under 12 crowd so they had no idea what they were recommending.

The under 5 crowd was even more egregious. It was recommended on a study of only 8 mice and if they simply produced antibodies.

[kalm]

How about some studies and non-biased reviews you can link to with updated findings. Surely there are some studies?

Facts are facts. Me and my family's chances, along with millions of other's chances of vaccine injury were higher than the risk of dying, especially the younger one gets. No long term studies have been completed on the vaccine yet.

I'll even give you a real world example. Look up the Diamond Princess cruise ship that was docked off Japan in the beginning. COVID was at its most lethal. Out of 3,711 there were 7 deaths. Average age was 69. Wonder how many comorbidities those 7 had. The rest handled it quite well considering the scaremongering that was going on.

If you weren't advanced age or in poor metabolic health, you were at very little risk.

Of the 3,711 people aboard Diamond Princess on the 20 January cruise, 1,045 were crew and 2,666 were passengers.[80] The median age of the crew was 36 while the median age of the passengers was 69.[80] The passengers were 55% female and the crew was 81% male.[80] Of the 712 infections, 145 occurred in crew and 567 occurred in passengers

Right, so you have no links to scientific studies and research that are well sourced. Just your opinion on what happened and the best measures to take for your own family.

Thank you.

[UNI88]

Facts are facts. Me and my family's chances, along with millions of other's chances of vaccine injury were higher than the risk of dying, especially the younger one gets. No long term studies have been completed on the vaccine yet.

I'll even give you a real world example. Look up the Diamond Princess cruise ship that was docked off Japan in the beginning. COVID was at its most lethal. Out of 3,711 there were 7 deaths. Average age was 69. Wonder how many comorbidities those 7 had. The rest handled it quite well considering the scaremongering that was going on.

If you weren't advanced age or in poor metabolic health, you were at very little risk.

Right, so you have no links to scientific studies and research that are well sourced. Just your opinion on what happened and the best measures to take for your own family.

Thank you.

685 pages into this thread and SG's posts have proven more accurate over time. I expect that trend to continue.

Common sense says:

1. It doesn't provide immunity so it isn't a vaccine, it's a shot.
2. Testing was rushed so there was no way they could adequately test for the long-term implications of taking the shot.
3. The potential negative effects of the shot would be magnified for younger people who are still developing and expected to live longer while the benefits are less because they are less at risk.
4. Asking why the government pushed for younger people to take the shot is a legitimate question that should be asked.

[SeattleGriz]

Facts are facts. Me and my family's chances, along with millions of other's chances of vaccine injury were higher than the risk of dying, especially the younger one gets. No long term studies have been completed on the vaccine yet.

I'll even give you a real world example. Look up the Diamond Princess cruise ship that was docked off Japan in the beginning. COVID was at its most lethal. Out of 3,711 there were 7 deaths. Average age was 69. Wonder how many comorbidities those 7 had. The rest handled it quite well considering the scaremongering that was going on.

If you weren't advanced age or in poor metabolic health, you were at very little risk.

Right, so you have no links to scientific studies and research that are well sourced. Just your opinion on what happened and the best measures to take for your own family.

Thank you.

Data doesn't lie. IFR and VAERS...and VAERS is notoriously under reported.

There are plenty of nations now recommending anyone under 50 should not get the shot.

[kalm]

Right, so you have no links to scientific studies and research that are well sourced. Just your opinion on what happened and the best measures to take for your own family.

Thank you.

Data doesn't lie. IFR and VAERS...and VAERS is notoriously under reported.

There are plenty of nations now recommending anyone under 50 should not get the shot.

Right. So back up your assertions with links and actual data. We know more now than at the start. You could be right. I’d just like to see some sources. Shouldn’t be difficult.

[kalm]

Just as an example:

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2022/12/42454 ... on-omicron