The Planned Parenthood video...

[D1B]

ok cheese dip Ill bite

you're correct - Im not religious

and you'll note that I only say that late term abortion is a hideous practice

I've never said that it should be illegal, either - I think it is way too easy to get into the weeds on that one and then suddenly youre a hypocrite or you hate women or whatever other appeal to emotion the proabortionists will throw at you....

I think the fetus can feel pain at some point during gestation - I think there is a point beyond which the "mass of cells" argument departs from science (ironic) ... and I dont have a remedy to offer - I simply think it is atrocious

I dont have to offer a solution to every moral issue in the world - Ill leave that to you

Cheese Dip...
BTW: That's mine - I used that on D1B years ago on here
and nobody is more suspicious of "Morality" as a reason for anything - on this forum than I am
(maybe only Cluck is more adamantly questioning of morality)

I have no moral solutions either
Nowhere in my argument do I put forth a moral solution

But I will punch holes all day long in the idea that abortion is blanket statement: immoral
Because that's a level of bullsh!t so deep and so deceptive only a Fundamentalists is inclined to stand there

No one takes shots at D1B like that. You must be confusing D1B with someone else.

[CID1990]

ok cheese dip Ill bite

you're correct - Im not religious

and you'll note that I only say that late term abortion is a hideous practice

I've never said that it should be illegal, either - I think it is way too easy to get into the weeds on that one and then suddenly youre a hypocrite or you hate women or whatever other appeal to emotion the proabortionists will throw at you....

I think the fetus can feel pain at some point during gestation - I think there is a point beyond which the "mass of cells" argument departs from science (ironic) ... and I dont have a remedy to offer - I simply think it is atrocious

I dont have to offer a solution to every moral issue in the world - Ill leave that to you

Cheese Dip...
BTW: That's mine - I used that on D1B years ago on here
and nobody is more suspicious of "Morality" as a reason for anything - on this forum than I am
(maybe only Cluck is more adamantly questioning of morality)

I have no moral solutions either
Nowhere in my argument do I put forth a moral solution

But I will punch holes all day long in the idea that abortion is blanket statement: immoral
Because that's a level of bullsh!t so deep and so deceptive only a Fundamentalists is inclined to stand there

translation: there's nothing "wrong" or immoral about pulling a 30 week old fetus halfway out of the mother, severing its spine and then sucking out its brain

because we do it all the time in other venues - with already walking and talking people

oh and we bomb children

therefore anyone who finds late term abortion to be disgusting is on shaky ground

and ive given you props for cheese dip before, professor - i like it

[Chizzang]

Cheese Dip...
BTW: That's mine - I used that on D1B years ago on here
and nobody is more suspicious of "Morality" as a reason for anything - on this forum than I am
(maybe only Cluck is more adamantly questioning of morality)

I have no moral solutions either
Nowhere in my argument do I put forth a moral solution

But I will punch holes all day long in the idea that abortion is blanket statement: immoral
Because that's a level of bullsh!t so deep and so deceptive only a Fundamentalists is inclined to stand there

translation: there's nothing "wrong" or immoral about pulling a 30 week old fetus halfway out of the mother, severing its spine and then sucking out its brain

because we do it all the time in other venues - with already walking and talking people

oh and we bomb children

therefore anyone who finds late term abortion to be disgusting is on shaky ground

and ive given you props for cheese dip before, professor - i like it

You point out an example where almost every human is anti-abortion
so you strengthen no argument from either side

Like I said - damn near everyone is anti-abortion
One of abortion rights biggest and loudest supporters has openly said:
"I can hardly imagine a scenario where I personally would opt for an abortion..."

We all - almost entirely agree - late term abortions are horrendous
This idea you have that only the elite select few moralists understand the tragedy of abortion
should actually be embarrassing - but you wear it proudly

[JoltinJoe]

You nailed it...probably without realizing it. My views don't depend on what country I was living in...or my lifestyle.

I am pro-life.

My life.

And my friends...and people who I find interesting.

Laws against general mayhem and murder directly help to protect me. Abortion (or the murder of someone's fetus) has no impact on me. No conflict at all.

I am not pro-life for anyone that I don't know. Frankly, I don't give a rats arse about people I don't know. Truth be told, you don't really care about those people either, otherwise you would not purchase breathable, comfortable golf clothing made in Vietnam, Thailand, China, or any other **** hole where people...innocent children, and work, and die, like slaves.

You don't give a crap that the making of your cell phone/TV, car, oh, name it...costs innocent people their lives. Reality...we live well because other people are exploited. We (our country) have killed hundreds of thousands of people for our economic benefit. And you are OK with that. You are. And that is funny because you claim to care about innocent lives. Yeah, that they live, perhaps...but not how they live, or how we help them die.

I'm perfectly OK with other people dying and suffering to benefit me. In reality, you are OK with it, too.

So it is funny that pro-life people are concerned about the life of a fetus, but no so concerned about how that fetus ends up living...or dying...so long as the pro-life people's lifestyles aren't negatively impacted.

Crushed it. Modeator Kitteh, lock this baby up.
/motherfuckingthread

This is called moral nihilism, so, yea, if you're a nihilist, he crushed it.

[JoltinJoe]

But I will punch holes all day long in the idea that abortion is blanket statement: immoral
Because that's a level of bullsh!t so deep and so deceptive only a Fundamentalists is inclined to stand there

Well, let's start with that the decision of whether to have an abortion involves a weighing of moral criteria, and thus the decision has a moral dimension. You would agree with that?

[dbackjon]

But I will punch holes all day long in the idea that abortion is blanket statement: immoral
Because that's a level of bullsh!t so deep and so deceptive only a Fundamentalists is inclined to stand there

Well, let's start with that the decision of whether to have an abortion involves a weighing of moral criteria, and thus the decision has a moral dimension. You would agree with that?

So how is Fordham going to do this year?

[Chizzang]

But I will punch holes all day long in the idea that abortion is blanket statement: immoral
Because that's a level of bullsh!t so deep and so deceptive only a Fundamentalists is inclined to stand there

Well, let's start with that the decision of whether to have an abortion involves a weighing of moral criteria, and thus the decision has a moral dimension. You would agree with that?

No Joe I wouldn't agree with that...
I would agree that YOU agree with that as THE premise to build this debate on

What you're doing is similar to asking this:
We can all agree that God is immoral based on the condition of the world today correct?
We can all agree on that of course right..?



So all conversations about Religion should begin with the agreement that God is immoral

[D1B]

But I will punch holes all day long in the idea that abortion is blanket statement: immoral
Because that's a level of bullsh!t so deep and so deceptive only a Fundamentalists is inclined to stand there

Well, let's start with that the decision of whether to have an abortion involves a weighing of moral criteria, and thus the decision has a moral dimension. You would agree with that?

No, Joe, it's a health decision, for women.

Next....

[D1B]

translation: there's nothing "wrong" or immoral about pulling a 30 week old fetus halfway out of the mother, severing its spine and then sucking out its brain

because we do it all the time in other venues - with already walking and talking people

oh and we bomb children

therefore anyone who finds late term abortion to be disgusting is on shaky ground

and ive given you props for cheese dip before, professor - i like it

You point out an example where almost every human is anti-abortion
so you strengthen no argument from either side

Like I said - damn near everyone is anti-abortion
One of abortion rights biggest and loudest supporters has openly said:
"I can hardly imagine a scenario where I personally would opt for an abortion..."

We all - almost entirely agree - late term abortions are horrendous
This idea you have that only the elite select few moralists understand the tragedy of abortion
should actually be embarrassing - but you wear it proudly

"Can hardly imagine a scenario..." REALLY?
Rape? Life in danger? ....

What a fucking moron.

[Chizzang]

You point out an example where almost every human is anti-abortion
so you strengthen no argument from either side

Like I said - damn near everyone is anti-abortion
One of abortion rights biggest and loudest supporters has openly said:
"I can hardly imagine a scenario where I personally would opt for an abortion..."

We all - almost entirely agree - late term abortions are horrendous
This idea you have that only the elite select few moralists understand the tragedy of abortion
should actually be embarrassing - but you wear it proudly

"Can hardly imagine a scenario..." REALLY?
Rape? Life in danger? ....

What a fucking moron.

Can you imagine being raped..?
or being pregnant and told your baby's delivery is going to kill you...
Those scenarios are traumatic and make her point perfectly
it is difficult to imagine



How is it that you never miss an opportunity to miss a point..?

[D1B]

"Can hardly imagine a scenario..." REALLY?
Rape? Life in danger? ....

What a fucking moron.

Can you imagine being raped..?
or being pregnant and told your baby's delivery is going to kill you...
Those scenarios are traumatic and make her point perfectly
it is difficult to imagine



How is it that you never miss an opportunity to miss a point..?

I sure as fuck can, Chuck Schick. That's why I'm pro choice.

Who is this leader who can't imagine such a scenario?

[Chizzang]

Can you imagine being raped..?
or being pregnant and told your baby's delivery is going to kill you...
Those scenarios are traumatic and make her point perfectly
it is difficult to imagine



How is it that you never miss an opportunity to miss a point..?

I sure as fuck can, Chuck Schick. That's why I'm pro choice.

Who is this leader who can't imagine such a scenario?

The way you go on and on about Catholic Priests I'm beginning to wonder...
But hey - whatever

Not "Leader"
Vocal advocate Sarah Silverman

[D1B]

I sure as fuck can, Chuck Schick. That's why I'm pro choice.

Who is this leader who can't imagine such a scenario?

The way you go on and on about Catholic Priests I'm beginning to wonder...
But hey - whatever

Not "Leader"
Vocal advocate Sarah Silverman

Sarah Silverman

What a dolt.

[D1B]

I sure as fuck can, Chuck Schick. That's why I'm pro choice.

Who is this leader who can't imagine such a scenario?

The way you go on and on about Catholic Priests I'm beginning to wonder...
But hey - whatever

Not "Leader"
Vocal advocate Sarah Silverman

She's a vocal advocate solely because she can imagine such scenarios. She was not truthful saying she can't.

How do you not get that?

[JoltinJoe]

Well, let's start with that the decision of whether to have an abortion involves a weighing of moral criteria, and thus the decision has a moral dimension. You would agree with that?

No Joe I wouldn't agree with that...
I would agree that YOU agree with that as THE premise to build this debate on

What you're doing is similar to asking this:
We can all agree that God is immoral based on the condition of the world today correct?
We can all agree on that of course right..?



So all conversations about Religion should begin with the agreement that God is immoral

Your comparison doesn't really hold.

And you are contradicting yourself.

You said earlier in this thread that EVERYONE thinks abortion at 30 weeks is horrendous. Which means that, at some point, EVERYONE thinks abortion becomes immoral.

So then the whole discussion involves a weighing of moral criteria, and thus the decision has moral significance and consequences.

At some point, you have already agreed, abortion is immoral, because the moral consequences of the decision become so grave. Then the whole discussion is about why other people reach the same conclusion you do, but at an earlier point.

[JoltinJoe]

Well, let's start with that the decision of whether to have an abortion involves a weighing of moral criteria, and thus the decision has a moral dimension. You would agree with that?

No, Joe, it's a health decision, for women.

Next....

Oh, bullshit.

I gave up the "abortion is murder" rhetoric. So you've got to give up the "abortion is a health decision" bullshit. You know damn well that abortion is often -- very often -- purely elective.

Sure, abortion can be, in some circumstances, a health decision, and those instances present a different moral dimension than elective abortion. I will grant you that. Just as abortion in cases of rape presents a different moral dimension.

But you should grant me that elective abortion at 30 weeks can reasonably be called "murder."

So let's drop the rhetoric and face the question. Morally acceptable compromises can only be reached by recognizing that the decision to abort reflects significant moral dimensions.

[Baldy]

So abortion is a "necessary evil"?

It's not evil to save the life of a mother, the result of rape or incest.

aint evil if they're the victims of fucking churches like yours making it impossible to secure birth control

aint evil if the mother has AIDS

It's not evil if the father is some shithead like Alphagriz and envisions a life of misery for the child

aint evil if the mother is too young, mentally infirm or cannot provide a decent life for a child

aint evil if the mother is not ready to give up her entire life and or be impoverished by a pregnancy

aint evil if the mother was pressured into sex

Thanks to orgs like planned parenthood, abortions are at an all time low and going lower.

Guys like you Hen and your fucking church aint foolin anyone. Go ahead with your false outrage but we all know you're only interested in controlling the sex lives of women. Your church has been doin it for years.

visit plannedparenthood.org to make a donation to end abortion.

So now I'm a Catholic.



Father Hurtz musta ripped you up good in the Rectory.

All your excuses in bold type are (not only ignorant, but) elective, preventable, and have absolutely nothing to do with a woman's health. Just lazy women who don't care about their health using abortion as a form of birth control.

Try again, Stumpy.

[kalm]

No, Joe, it's a health decision, for women.

Next....

Oh, bullshit.

I gave up the "abortion is murder" rhetoric. So you've got to give up the "abortion is a health decision" bullshit. You know damn well that abortion is often -- very often -- purely elective.

Sure, abortion can be, in some circumstances, a health decision, and those instances present a different moral dimension than elective abortion. I will grant you that. Just as abortion in cases of rape presents a different moral dimension.

But you should grant me that elective abortion at 30 weeks can reasonably be called "murder."

So let's drop the rhetoric and face the question. Morally acceptable compromises can only be reached by recognizing that the decision to abort reflects significant moral dimensions.

Hey! I think I understand now why Cleets keeps yammering on about some "spectrum"!

What do you call it at 29 weeks? 23? 16?

[JoltinJoe]

kalm, you do understand that is MY point?

[Chizzang]

No Joe I wouldn't agree with that...
I would agree that YOU agree with that as THE premise to build this debate on

What you're doing is similar to asking this:
We can all agree that God is immoral based on the condition of the world today correct?
We can all agree on that of course right..?



So all conversations about Religion should begin with the agreement that God is immoral

Your comparison doesn't really hold.

And you are contradicting yourself.

You said earlier in this thread that EVERYONE thinks abortion at 30 weeks is horrendous. Which means that, at some point, EVERYONE thinks abortion becomes immoral.

So then the whole discussion involves a weighing of moral criteria, and thus the decision has moral significance and consequences.

At some point, you have already agreed, abortion is immoral, because the moral consequences of the decision become so grave. Then the whole discussion is about why other people reach the same conclusion you do, but at an earlier point.

Joe,
Yes I understand for centuries your faith's belief that every sperm is sacred...

Answer me this: Mr. Moralist (true story)
A 27-year-old mother of four was pregnant and seriously ill with pulmonary hypertension. She was bedridden and it was clear that her pregnancy would lead to the death of both her and her potential fifth child. Sensing that this was an extreme case, and that death was highly likely if she did not terminate the pregnancy, Sister Margaret McBride decided to speak with the woman. The woman wanted to terminate her pregnancy and Sister McBride allowed for an abortion to proceed. The procedure saved the life of the mother. Sister McBride was excommunicated from the church...

Let's start the conversation there Joe...



Your Religion has a long track record of being absolutely TERRIBLE at these kinds of logical debates
and quite frankly immoral by even a caveman's standards of ethics
so I'm anxious to see how you're going to "help me understand"

[Ibanez]

[travelinman67]

Boom!!

Video #3
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... c-footage/

Planned Parenthood indicates they will take legal action to block any further video releases.



Amoral crooks caught in the act.

[YoUDeeMan]

Crushed it. Modeator Kitteh, lock this baby up.
/motherfuckingthread

This is called moral nihilism, so, yea, if you're a nihilist, he crushed it.

Uh, no.

Nice try though.

I'm not saying that killing a person isn't right or wrong, I'm saying that people conveniently ignore the fact, and it is a fact, that they are OK with people dying for their way of life. You are, too.

I'm OK with 89 believing that killing a fetus is morally wrong. That doesn't change the fact that he lives a life that kills other people so that he can live that life...and he doesn't seem quite as upset about that fact. It is a choice he makes...to allow his government and others to kill and enslave innocent people so that he can drive a car, live in a nice house...and golf (eff the environment, too ).

And he's OK with it. In fact, he, and you, and most everyone in a first world country, support lifestyles at the expense of other innocent lives.

The fact is that giving up your lifestyle so that others can live (period), or live better lives, would be waaaaaaaaay too inconvenient for you. You pride yourselves that you are getting ahead...living the good life, and making things better for your children in this dog eat dog world. 100,000s of thousand of people have died recently because we want the US of A to be the gawd damned US of A...and no sand nigg...err, nihilist is going to get in our way.

Yet you want someone else to give up their lifestyle in order to stay pregnant in order to deliver an innocent baby that they, and most of the world, don't want.

That isn't nihilism, jj, that is hypocrisy.

[89Hen]

And you are contradicting yourself.

You said earlier in this thread that EVERYONE thinks abortion at 30 weeks is horrendous. Which means that, at some point, EVERYONE thinks abortion becomes immoral.

[89Hen]

to allow his government and others to kill and enslave innocent people so that he can drive a car, live in a nice house...and golf (eff the environment, too ).

And he's OK with it. In fact, he, and you, and most everyone in a first world country, support lifestyles at the expense of other innocent lives.

The fact is that giving up your lifestyle so that others can live (period), or live better lives, would be waaaaaaaaay too inconvenient for you. You pride yourselves that you are getting ahead...living the good life, and making things better for your children in this dog eat dog world. 100,000s of thousand of people have died recently because we want the US of A to be the gawd damned US of A...and no sand nigg...err, nihilist is going to get in our way.

Yet you want someone else to give up their lifestyle in order to stay pregnant in order to deliver an innocent baby that they, and most of the world, don't want.

That isn't nihilism, jj, that is hypocrisy.

We've already beaten this horse Cluck. Everyone who believes murder should be a punishable offense is a hypocrite by your definition. You keep bringing it up as if it's a hole in the pro-life arguement. It's not.