2022 Elections Thread

[89Hen]

Unfortunately, the majority of the population is not highly educated.

Ironic that the left wants to expand voting rights for illegals and felons, isn't it Jon?

Education =/= Intelligence

[Ibanez]

Unfortunately, the majority of the population is not highly educated.

Ironic that the left wants to expand voting rights for illegals and felons, isn't it Jon?

Education =/= Intelligence

Take JSOs concept of intelligence with a grain of salt.

[JohnStOnge]

Ironic that the left wants to expand voting rights for illegals and felons, isn't it Jon?

Education =/= Intelligence

Take JSOs concept of intelligence with a grain of salt.

My concept of intelligence tells me that, if you were to measure intelligence in any reasonable way, people who succeed in obtaining graduate degrees are going to be found to be, on average, WAY more intelligent than people who do not get college degrees at all are. Do you disagree with that?

Certainly going to be the case if you use IQ tests; which have been relentlessly attacked but have results that are highly correlated with success in intellectual fields in spite of efforts to suppress that association.

Doesn't mean there won't be exceptions. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs have been reported to have something like 160 IQs and neither got a college degree. But, on average, people who get not only college degrees but get graduate degrees are going to be WAY more intelligent than people who don't get college degrees.

Besides; if you had to bet, who do you think Gates voted for in the 2016 presidential election? In the 2020 presidential election? Jobs didn't live long enough. But who do you think he WOULD have voted for? You get the picture. I think that if only people with IQ levels at least 1 standard deviation above the mean (i.e., the top 16 percent) could vote the Republicans would be totally screwed. They would have zero chance to be nationally relevant. They would not even be able to win Texas.

[JohnStOnge]

Now for why i came here:

I saw today that there is a poll result saying that 51% of respondents think the United States is in a recession or a depression. You can see discussion of it at https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 912451001/.

Despite economic growth and low unemployment, a 51% majority of those surveyed say the economy is in a recession or a depression, the gloomiest outlook in six years.

Here is the problem: That is just objectively false. We just finished a year, 2021, that had the highest real (i.e., adjusted for inflation) GDP growth since 1984. See https://www.multpl.com/us-real-gdp-grow ... le/by-year.

There is no evidence that the first quarter of 2022 is going to show negative growth.

What do you do if you are in a situation in which so many people just have a false perception of where we are with respect to the economy?

[UNI88]

Take JSOs concept of intelligence with a grain of salt.

My concept of intelligence tells me that, if you were to measure intelligence in any reasonable way, people who succeed in obtaining graduate degrees are going to be found to be, on average, WAY more intelligent than people who do not get college degrees at all are. Do you disagree with that?

Certainly going to be the case if you use IQ tests; which have been relentlessly attacked but have results that are highly correlated with success in intellectual fields in spite of efforts to suppress that association.

Doesn't mean there won't be exceptions. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs have been reported to have something like 160 IQs and neither got a college degree. But, on average, people who get not only college degrees but get graduate degrees are going to be WAY more intelligent than people who don't get college degrees.

Besides; if you had to bet, who do you think Gates voted for in the 2016 presidential election? In the 2020 presidential election? Jobs didn't live long enough. But who do you think he WOULD have voted for? You get the picture. I think that if only people with IQ levels at least 1 standard deviation above the mean (i.e., the top 16 percent) could vote the Republicans would be totally screwed. They would have zero chance to be nationally relevant. They would not even be able to win Texas.

Rather than intelligence maybe we should use common sense. Unfortunately that would preclude you from voting.

[CID1990]

My concept of intelligence tells me that, if you were to measure intelligence in any reasonable way, people who succeed in obtaining graduate degrees are going to be found to be, on average, WAY more intelligent than people who do not get college degrees at all are. Do you disagree with that?

Certainly going to be the case if you use IQ tests; which have been relentlessly attacked but have results that are highly correlated with success in intellectual fields in spite of efforts to suppress that association.

Doesn't mean there won't be exceptions. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs have been reported to have something like 160 IQs and neither got a college degree. But, on average, people who get not only college degrees but get graduate degrees are going to be WAY more intelligent than people who don't get college degrees.

Besides; if you had to bet, who do you think Gates voted for in the 2016 presidential election? In the 2020 presidential election? Jobs didn't live long enough. But who do you think he WOULD have voted for? You get the picture. I think that if only people with IQ levels at least 1 standard deviation above the mean (i.e., the top 16 percent) could vote the Republicans would be totally screwed. They would have zero chance to be nationally relevant. They would not even be able to win Texas.

Rather than intelligence maybe we should use common sense. Unfortunately that would preclude you from voting.

I was going to ask why you were responding to this ass-neck

But there was a lot of truth and reason in what you said

I’ll allow it


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[SDHornet]

I think one obviously has to think things will be bad for Democrats in 2022 regardless of what Hispanics do. But, while I do look at the ABC News/Washington Post poll as the best one overall, there is reason to hope that what we see in this particular one with respect to Hispanics is sampling error. Not error in terms of doing something wrong in sampling. Just the normal probability error that is associated with statistical estimates.

Other polls still show Democrats with a big lead among Hispanics. like for instance the latest Harris poll has Democrats up by 71% to 29% among Hispanics (https://mcusercontent.com/ca678077bc522 ... k_002_.pdf), the latest YouGov poll has them up by 60% to 36% among that group, and the latest YouGov poll has them up by 53% to 23% among them.

i just posted about the ABC News/Washington Post poll because i don think it's the best poll over time and it's notable when you see something like that in it.

Yes, yes. Any poll that goes against your narrative MUST be “polling error”….

Always laugh at JSO. Always.

[SDHornet]

Biden owns the energy problems. Anybody with a brain that voted for him knew what direction he would take things.

And at Psaki spinning it on TV.

[Ibanez]

Take JSOs concept of intelligence with a grain of salt.

My concept of intelligence tells me that, if you were to measure intelligence in any reasonable way, people who succeed in obtaining graduate degrees are going to be found to be, on average, WAY more intelligent than people who do not get college degrees at all are. Do you disagree with that?

Certainly going to be the case if you use IQ tests; which have been relentlessly attacked but have results that are highly correlated with success in intellectual fields in spite of efforts to suppress that association.

Doesn't mean there won't be exceptions. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs have been reported to have something like 160 IQs and neither got a college degree. But, on average, people who get not only college degrees but get graduate degrees are going to be WAY more intelligent than people who don't get college degrees.

Besides; if you had to bet, who do you think Gates voted for in the 2016 presidential election? In the 2020 presidential election? Jobs didn't live long enough. But who do you think he WOULD have voted for? You get the picture. I think that if only people with IQ levels at least 1 standard deviation above the mean (i.e., the top 16 percent) could vote the Republicans would be totally screwed. They would have zero chance to be nationally relevant. They would not even be able to win Texas.

Your concept of intelligence leaves out all those people that have built and done great things without a college degree. College degrees don't have much value - anyone can get one and with the way schools are it's impossible to NOT get a degree. You sound like someone that hasn't been around higher education in the past 10 or so years - I have. MrsCCU teaches college and graduate level courses. Today is the 3rd of a semester and she's ALREADY turned students in for fraud and handed out Fs.

Your way of thinking is old and hasn't adapted to the modern world. Your way of thinking, adapting also shows a lack of intelligence. You can't be trust to vote. I'll vote for you .

[Ibanez]

My concept of intelligence tells me that, if you were to measure intelligence in any reasonable way, people who succeed in obtaining graduate degrees are going to be found to be, on average, WAY more intelligent than people who do not get college degrees at all are. Do you disagree with that?

Certainly going to be the case if you use IQ tests; which have been relentlessly attacked but have results that are highly correlated with success in intellectual fields in spite of efforts to suppress that association.

Doesn't mean there won't be exceptions. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs have been reported to have something like 160 IQs and neither got a college degree. But, on average, people who get not only college degrees but get graduate degrees are going to be WAY more intelligent than people who don't get college degrees.

Besides; if you had to bet, who do you think Gates voted for in the 2016 presidential election? In the 2020 presidential election? Jobs didn't live long enough. But who do you think he WOULD have voted for? You get the picture. I think that if only people with IQ levels at least 1 standard deviation above the mean (i.e., the top 16 percent) could vote the Republicans would be totally screwed. They would have zero chance to be nationally relevant. They would not even be able to win Texas.

Rather than intelligence maybe we should use common sense. Unfortunately that would preclude you from voting.

I've always said there's a difference between being smart and intelligent. Smart means you are knowledgeable about things. You may KNOW the math but you can't use it (or use it well.) Intelligence means you can apply that knowledge. JSO, to me, is smart.

[JohnStOnge]

My concept of intelligence tells me that, if you were to measure intelligence in any reasonable way, people who succeed in obtaining graduate degrees are going to be found to be, on average, WAY more intelligent than people who do not get college degrees at all are. Do you disagree with that?

Certainly going to be the case if you use IQ tests; which have been relentlessly attacked but have results that are highly correlated with success in intellectual fields in spite of efforts to suppress that association.

Doesn't mean there won't be exceptions. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs have been reported to have something like 160 IQs and neither got a college degree. But, on average, people who get not only college degrees but get graduate degrees are going to be WAY more intelligent than people who don't get college degrees.

Besides; if you had to bet, who do you think Gates voted for in the 2016 presidential election? In the 2020 presidential election? Jobs didn't live long enough. But who do you think he WOULD have voted for? You get the picture. I think that if only people with IQ levels at least 1 standard deviation above the mean (i.e., the top 16 percent) could vote the Republicans would be totally screwed. They would have zero chance to be nationally relevant. They would not even be able to win Texas.

Rather than intelligence maybe we should use common sense. Unfortunately that would preclude you from voting.

I think that "common sense" thing is largely just an old saw used by people who don't want to admit that intelligence really does matter. If you need heart surgery, do you want someone with an 80 IQ and a high school education doing it or do you want a person with a 140 IQ and a MD who specializes in heart surgery doing it?

Appeal to "common sense" is often, I think, a reaction by people who don't understand the complexity of the situation and are trying to discredit the people who do understand it. Or in this case maybe something people who support one political party say to try to downplay the fact that all indications are that a solid majority of the most intelligent people vote for the other one.

[UNI88]

Rather than intelligence maybe we should use common sense. Unfortunately that would preclude you from voting.

I think that "common sense" thing is largely just an old saw used by people who don't want to admit that intelligence really does matter. If you need heart surgery, do you want someone with an 80 IQ and a high school education doing it or do you want a person with a 140 IQ and a MD who specializes in heart surgery doing it?

Appeal to "common sense" is often, I think, a reaction by people who don't understand the complexity of the situation and are trying to discredit the people who do understand it. Or in this case maybe something people who support one political party say to try to downplay the fact that all indications are that a solid majority of the most intelligent people vote for the other one.

So you're saying that "people who don't want to admit that intelligence really does matter" use common sense to downplay the importance of intelligence the way intelligent people who lack common sense focus on intelligence to downplay the importance of common sense?

[AZGrizFan]

Rather than intelligence maybe we should use common sense. Unfortunately that would preclude you from voting.

I think that "common sense" thing is largely just an old saw used by people who don't want to admit that intelligence really does matter. If you need heart surgery, do you want someone with an 80 IQ and a high school education doing it or do you want a person with a 140 IQ and a MD who specializes in heart surgery doing it?

Appeal to "common sense" is often, I think, a reaction by people who don't understand the complexity of the situation and are trying to discredit the people who do understand it. Or in this case maybe something people who support one political party say to try to downplay the fact that all indications are that a solid majority of the most intelligent people vote for the other one.

Will you ever admit that intelligence <> education? Because I know a shitload of overeducated idiots….who, coincidentally have almost zero common sense as well.

[JohnStOnge]

Rather than intelligence maybe we should use common sense. Unfortunately that would preclude you from voting.

I've always said there's a difference between being smart and intelligent. Smart means you are knowledgeable about things. You may KNOW the math but you can't use it (or use it well.) Intelligence means you can apply that knowledge. JSO, to me, is smart.

I could take the bait and respond to that with respect to my own being "smart" as opposed to being "intelligent." But that is not what we are talking about here. We are talking about the fact that a very solid majority of people with graduate degrees vote Democrat.

So the latest poll I referenced had respondents whose educational attainment level is High school or less saying they favor Republicans over Democrats in the next election by 41% to 37%. It has people with graduate degrees saying they will vote for Democrats over Republicans by 55% to 31%.

Is that because people with graduate degrees are smart but not intelligent?

[CID1990]

I've always said there's a difference between being smart and intelligent. Smart means you are knowledgeable about things. You may KNOW the math but you can't use it (or use it well.) Intelligence means you can apply that knowledge. JSO, to me, is smart.

I could take the bait and respond to that with respect to my own being "smart" as opposed to being "intelligent." But that is not what we are talking about here. We are talking about the fact that a very solid majority of people with graduate degrees vote Democrat.

So the latest poll I referenced had respondents whose educational attainment level is High school or less saying they favor Republicans over Democrats in the next election by 41% to 37%. It has people with graduate degrees saying they will vote for Democrats over Republicans by 55% to 31%.

Is that because people with graduate degrees are smart but not intelligent?

Your insistence that swaths of educated people voting Dem is some kind of determinant is fallacious logic

I’ll let you figure out which one


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[AZGrizFan]

I've always said there's a difference between being smart and intelligent. Smart means you are knowledgeable about things. You may KNOW the math but you can't use it (or use it well.) Intelligence means you can apply that knowledge. JSO, to me, is smart.

I could take the bait and respond to that with respect to my own being "smart" as opposed to being "intelligent." But that is not what we are talking about here. We are talking about the fact that a very solid majority of people with graduate degrees vote Democrat.

So the latest poll I referenced had respondents whose educational attainment level is High school or less saying they favor Republicans over Democrats in the next election by 41% to 37%. It has people with graduate degrees saying they will vote for Democrats over Republicans by 55% to 31%.

Is that because people with graduate degrees are smart but not intelligent?

Yes. A large percentage of them live in educrat bubbles and don’t know how the real world operates.

[Ivytalk]

It’s a figure of speech. Rushmore is meant for great Presidents, not for nunchucks like our recent mediocrities. But you knew that.

Really? How come Reagan isn't up there?

Out of room.

[Ivytalk]

I could take the bait and respond to that with respect to my own being "smart" as opposed to being "intelligent." But that is not what we are talking about here. We are talking about the fact that a very solid majority of people with graduate degrees vote Democrat.

So the latest poll I referenced had respondents whose educational attainment level is High school or less saying they favor Republicans over Democrats in the next election by 41% to 37%. It has people with graduate degrees saying they will vote for Democrats over Republicans by 55% to 31%.

Is that because people with graduate degrees are smart but not intelligent?

Yes. A large percentage of them live in educrat bubbles and don’t know how the real world operates.

I knew several “law review” types who really sucked as practicing lawyers. Their so-called “intelligence” didn’t translate well into written or oral advocacy skills, or other benchmarks of good lawyering like intellectual creativity. And nobody has rebutted the point that some of our “smartest” Presidents have sucked at governing.

[Ibanez]

I've always said there's a difference between being smart and intelligent. Smart means you are knowledgeable about things. You may KNOW the math but you can't use it (or use it well.) Intelligence means you can apply that knowledge. JSO, to me, is smart.

I could take the bait and respond to that with respect to my own being "smart" as opposed to being "intelligent." But that is not what we are talking about here. We are talking about the fact that a very solid majority of people with graduate degrees vote Democrat.

So the latest poll I referenced had respondents whose educational attainment level is High school or less saying they favor Republicans over Democrats in the next election by 41% to 37%. It has people with graduate degrees saying they will vote for Democrats over Republicans by 55% to 31%.

Is that because people with graduate degrees are smart but not intelligent?

I am not surprised that you have YET to get the point we're all making.

[Ibanez]

Yes. A large percentage of them live in educrat bubbles and don’t know how the real world operates.

I knew several “law review” types who really sucked as practicing lawyers. Their so-called “intelligence” didn’t translate well into written or oral advocacy skills, or other benchmarks of good lawyering like intellectual creativity. And nobody has rebutted the point that some of our “smartest” Presidents have sucked at governing.

Trust me, JSO has a statistic for each of those Presidents and have they're actually smart when you compared them to Neatheradals and that "good governing" is subjective and really can't be measured.

Probably, who knows what he'll pull out of his ass.

[Ibanez]

Rather than intelligence maybe we should use common sense. Unfortunately that would preclude you from voting.

I think that "common sense" thing is largely just an old saw used by people who don't want to admit that intelligence really does matter. If you need heart surgery, do you want someone with an 80 IQ and a high school education doing it or do you want a person with a 140 IQ and a MD who specializes in heart surgery doing it?

Appeal to "common sense" is often, I think, a reaction by people who don't understand the complexity of the situation and are trying to discredit the people who do understand it. Or in this case maybe something people who support one political party say to try to downplay the fact that all indications are that a solid majority of the most intelligent people vote for the other one.

Ooh good...you've brought up doctors. They never get fired/jailed for incompetence.

Spoiler: show

You're still equating intelligence with advanced degrees with a wide brush. Medical errors make up a huge portion of deaths in this country and malpractice suits. Nobody here is denying that there are intelligent people with advanced degrees. The push back is your willingness to say only those people should vote.

I think you, legitimately, have Asperger's or something like that. At the very least, you are on the Autism Spectrum. Not that anything is wrong with that, but under my rules that would preclude you from voting, home ownership, vehicle ownership, you can only have rubber tools, no sharp objects at all and you can only eat pureed beets and carrots.

[Ivytalk]

I knew several “law review” types who really sucked as practicing lawyers. Their so-called “intelligence” didn’t translate well into written or oral advocacy skills, or other benchmarks of good lawyering like intellectual creativity. And nobody has rebutted the point that some of our “smartest” Presidents have sucked at governing.

Trust me, JSO has a statistic for each of those Presidents and have they're actually smart when you compared them to Neatheradals and that "good governing" is subjective and really can't be measured.

Probably, who knows what he'll pull out of his ass.

A spicy Cajun turd is my guess.

[Ibanez]

Trust me, JSO has a statistic for each of those Presidents and have they're actually smart when you compared them to Neatheradals and that "good governing" is subjective and really can't be measured.

Probably, who knows what he'll pull out of his ass.

A spicy Cajun turd is my guess.

Jambalaya and a crawfish pie and filé gumbo
For tonight I'm a gonna see my ma cher ami-o
Pick guitar, fill fruit jar and be gay-o
Son of a gun, we'll have big fun on the Bayou

[kalm]

We all know anecdotal examples of highly educated and disciplined idiots as well as low educated - high common sense and/or IQ types. It’s sort of an argument over nature vs nurture. An example would be the low (formal) educated who sucked at school and test taking but went on through self education, observation skills, and experience to become “learned” and brilliant regardless.

Where we seem to fall short is appreciating wisdom, grace, and the role selfishness plays.

I’m 100 pages into Dostoevsky’s “The Idiot”. It’s already leading strongly into this very discussion.

[Winterborn]

We all know anecdotal examples of highly educated and disciplined idiots as well as low educated - high common sense and/or IQ types. It’s sort of an argument over nature vs nurture. An example would be the low (formal) educated who sucked at school and test taking but went on through self education, observation skills, and experience to become “learned” and brilliant regardless.

Where we seem to fall short is appreciating wisdom, grace, and the role selfishness plays.

I’m 100 pages into Dostoevsky’s “The Idiot”. It’s already leading strongly into this very discussion.

With age comes wisdom. Unfortunately some people never grow up.

Wisdom is also knowing when to use a soft word to admonish somebody or when to use a hammer to beat it into their thick skulls.