The Ukraine Crisis

[CID1990]

Someone is apparently poisoning Russian negotiators and (former) English Premier League owners.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/roman-abra ... T_3MuXhqCE

Probably those Ukrainian Nazis


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[SeattleGriz]

I've seen some vids, seems legit. But as CID said, it's war and no doubt some of this would happen. Doesn't help Ukraine's PR campaign.

How much PR campaign do you think UKR needs? Do you think they give a fuck?

Polish soldiers shot any German soldier surrendering in 1939. They literally took no prisoners during the short time it took for Germany to overrun the country. Did they need PR? Do you think they gave a fuck? Did it matter?

I don’t give two shits about these weak ass apologetics over Russia. They invaded a weaker country with zero provocation. They fucked around and are now finding out. Fuck them. War is hell.


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As much as Zelensky has tried to goad everyone else into his issue, I'd say yes. They were defeating the Russians, Ghost of whatever and the last stand of Snake Island. All powerful PR.

That 40 mile Russian formation destroyed yet? Weren't the Russians supposed to have run out of fuel and food by now. All PR.

[SDHornet]

A takedown of the western left by someone with first hand knowledge. Long read but worth it…

From a Polish friend living in the UK. A good read if you care about having an informed take.

***LONG READ AHEAD***

Stop talking about the Azov battalion.
Just stop it.
Stop posting about it, stop FOCUSING on it.
YEEEEEEEESSSSS! there are neo-nazis in Ukraine. There are nazis across the entire Europe, not just Eastern Europe, including the UK, yet somehow NO ONE organises "sPeCiaL MiLitArY oPeRaTioNs to denazify and demilitarise" sovereign countries.

Yeah I stopped reading here when the guy tried to conflate pointing out the hypocrisy of supporting neo nazis (and their existence) and support for the invasion in the opening paragraph. You can speak out against both the neonazis and the invasion. This whole argument has supporting the "moderate Islamists" vibe from the Syria debacle. How did that work out? Yeah no thanks.

[SDHornet]

I've seen some vids, seems legit. But as CID said, it's war and no doubt some of this would happen. Doesn't help Ukraine's PR campaign.

How much PR campaign do you think UKR needs? Do you think they give a fuck?

Polish soldiers shot any German soldier surrendering in 1939. They literally took no prisoners during the short time it took for Germany to overrun the country. Did they need PR? Do you think they gave a fuck? Did it matter?

I don’t give two shits about these weak ass apologetics over Russia. They invaded a weaker country with zero provocation. They fucked around and are now finding out. Fuck them. War is hell.


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News and graphic vids didn't spread around the world in mere minutes in those days. And no, I'm sure they didn't give a fuck then, and the Ukrainians don't give a fuck now(even though Zelensky claimed there would be an investigation ).

No one here is trying to justify they invasion, and classifying anyone that makes counternarratives to the warmongering media and politicians is a "putin puppet" doesn't help things either.

[BDKJMU]

Since the US is training Ukranian troops in Poland (according to Biden today), doesn’t that legitimize an attack by Russia on Poland?

[BDKJMU]

[BDKJMU]

Full born dementia..

[CID1990]

How much PR campaign do you think UKR needs? Do you think they give a fuck?

Polish soldiers shot any German soldier surrendering in 1939. They literally took no prisoners during the short time it took for Germany to overrun the country. Did they need PR? Do you think they gave a fuck? Did it matter?

I don’t give two shits about these weak ass apologetics over Russia. They invaded a weaker country with zero provocation. They fucked around and are now finding out. Fuck them. War is hell.


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News and graphic vids didn't spread around the world in mere minutes in those days. And no, I'm sure they didn't give a fuck then, and the Ukrainians don't give a fuck now(even though Zelensky claimed there would be an investigation ).

No one here is trying to justify they invasion, and classifying anyone that makes counternarratives to the warmongering media and politicians is a "putin puppet" doesn't help things either.

I don’t see any counter narratives to the warmongering media. I see a bunch of passive aggressive yes butting from people who just two months ago were prone to praising Vladimir Putin but don’t have much of an audience now. Whether there are Nazis in Mariupol or Russian POWs have been shot is immaterial- if we were going to war with Russia, none of those things would make us tap the brakes. If you want a counter narrative, point out how Russia is actually not the aggressor here. It would be factually incorrect but at least it would be counter warmongering.

Our government thus far has done the right thing keeping us and NATO out of this war, and will continue to do so absent a direct attack on NATO. If you’re scared of “warmongering media” I’d suggest deep breaths. If we get into this war it will be because of Vladimir Putin, not CNN.


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[houndawg]

So are the social media reports of Ukrainian soldiers shooting Russian POWs true?

Doubtful, imo - the Ukrainians get great propaganda from letting them call their mothers.

[houndawg]

How much PR campaign do you think UKR needs? Do you think they give a fuck?

Polish soldiers shot any German soldier surrendering in 1939. They literally took no prisoners during the short time it took for Germany to overrun the country. Did they need PR? Do you think they gave a fuck? Did it matter?

I don’t give two shits about these weak ass apologetics over Russia. They invaded a weaker country with zero provocation. They fucked around and are now finding out. Fuck them. War is hell.


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News and graphic vids didn't spread around the world in mere minutes in those days. And no, I'm sure they didn't give a fuck then, and the Ukrainians don't give a fuck now(even though Zelensky claimed there would be an investigation ).

No one here is trying to justify they invasion, and classifying anyone that makes counternarratives to the warmongering media and politicians is a "putin puppet" doesn't help things either.

The correct term is "useful fool". Comrade.

[BDKJMU]

News and graphic vids didn't spread around the world in mere minutes in those days. And no, I'm sure they didn't give a fuck then, and the Ukrainians don't give a fuck now(even though Zelensky claimed there would be an investigation ).

No one here is trying to justify they invasion, and classifying anyone that makes counternarratives to the warmongering media and politicians is a "putin puppet" doesn't help things either.

I don’t see any counter narratives to the warmongering media. I see a bunch of passive aggressive yes butting from people who just two months ago were prone to praising Vladimir Putin but don’t have much of an audience now. Whether there are Nazis in Mariupol or Russian POWs have been shot is immaterial- if we were going to war with Russia, none of those things would make us tap the brakes. If you want a counter narrative, point out how Russia is actually not the aggressor here. It would be factually incorrect but at least it would be counter warmongering.

Our government thus far has done the right thing keeping us and NATO out of this war, and will continue to do so absent a direct attack on NATO. If you’re scared of “warmongering media” I’d suggest deep breaths. If we get into this war it will be because of Vladimir Putin, not CNN.


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Or because of the crazier shit that keeps coming out of Biden’s mouth. At the rate he is going, by next week it will be ‘we are going to nuke Russia.” followed by the WH scrambling to explain what Biden meant..

[Ibanez]

I don’t see any counter narratives to the warmongering media. I see a bunch of passive aggressive yes butting from people who just two months ago were prone to praising Vladimir Putin but don’t have much of an audience now. Whether there are Nazis in Mariupol or Russian POWs have been shot is immaterial- if we were going to war with Russia, none of those things would make us tap the brakes. If you want a counter narrative, point out how Russia is actually not the aggressor here. It would be factually incorrect but at least it would be counter warmongering.

Our government thus far has done the right thing keeping us and NATO out of this war, and will continue to do so absent a direct attack on NATO. If you’re scared of “warmongering media” I’d suggest deep breaths. If we get into this war it will be because of Vladimir Putin, not CNN.


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Or because of the crazier shit that keeps coming out of Biden’s mouth. At the rate he is going, by next week it will be ‘we are going to nuke Russia.” followed by the WH scrambling to explain what Biden meant..

Nah, it'll be b/c of Putin. Biden isn't any more inflammatory or contradictory with his words and actions than Trump was and we didn't go to way in those 4 years.

[UNI88]

Or because of the crazier shit that keeps coming out of Biden’s mouth. At the rate he is going, by next week it will be ‘we are going to nuke Russia.” followed by the WH scrambling to explain what Biden meant..

Nah, it'll be b/c of Putin. Biden isn't any more inflammatory or contradictory with his words and actions than Trump was and we didn't go to way in those 4 years.

I don't know. Biden mentioning regime change has to put Putin on edge. That's not a good idea if Putin might be unstable.

Trump said some outlandish and stupid things but I didn't feel closer to a nuclear war because of his verbal diarrhea the way I have recently with Biden.

[kalm]

Nah, it'll be b/c of Putin. Biden isn't any more inflammatory or contradictory with his words and actions than Trump was and we didn't go to way in those 4 years.

I don't know. Biden mentioning regime change has to put Putin on edge. That's not a good idea if Putin might be unstable.

Trump said some outlandish and stupid things but I didn't feel closer to a nuclear war because of his verbal diarrhea the way I have recently with Biden.

It was unnecessary and he clearly got caught up in the moment.

[GannonFan]

Nah, it'll be b/c of Putin. Biden isn't any more inflammatory or contradictory with his words and actions than Trump was and we didn't go to way in those 4 years.

I don't know. Biden mentioning regime change has to put Putin on edge. That's not a good idea if Putin might be unstable.

Trump said some outlandish and stupid things but I didn't feel closer to a nuclear war because of his verbal diarrhea the way I have recently with Biden.

I agree that Biden has been far more unstable. For all of his outlandishness, which was plentiful, you always knew where Trump was coming from - he was an egotistical narcissist to the nth degree. Biden is a different thing entirely, he simply looks checked out. Sometimes he's piloting the ship, and sometimes he's just not there. They can't even keep him on script anymore. Why they continually let him get in front of the press right now is borderline elder abuse, but then again, even in controlled speeches like in Warsaw, he can't stay on message. With all that said, I still think there are adults in the room and just like Trump, I don't think uncontrolled outburst from the President are going to result in people launching the missiles.

[GannonFan]

I don't know. Biden mentioning regime change has to put Putin on edge. That's not a good idea if Putin might be unstable.

Trump said some outlandish and stupid things but I didn't feel closer to a nuclear war because of his verbal diarrhea the way I have recently with Biden.

It was unnecessary and he clearly got caught up in the moment.

Which time?

[BDKJMU]

Or because of the crazier shit that keeps coming out of Biden’s mouth. At the rate he is going, by next week it will be ‘we are going to nuke Russia.” followed by the WH scrambling to explain what Biden meant..

Nah, it'll be b/c of Putin. Biden isn't any more inflammatory or contradictory with his words and actions than Trump was and we didn't go to way in those 4 years.

Well, Putin hadn’t invaded Ukraine or anywhere else in those 4 years either.

[CID1990]

Putin knows Biden is a senile old fool. Putin is famously paranoid, but I do believe that he knows NATO and the US are going to avoid an escalation.

So ultimately as dumb and reckless as Biden has been with his mouth, I think things will be ok. In a way I’m thankful Biden is a doddering old fool because if he was credibly lucid, his comments would be much more dangerous.

Where Biden’s comments hurt things is that they are a propaganda gold mine for Putin within Russia. Biden basically validated one of the principal pillars of the messaging about NATO and the US in Russia - that the alliance has at its core the the goal of military isolation and eventual destruction of Russia. If Putin’s popularity is going down in Russia, comments like Biden’s boost Putin.



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[SeattleGriz]

Zelensky apparently had to take a break from the war and tell Europe they need green energy to stop Russia.

WTF?

Wonder if he gets a kickback from those telling him what to do.

[UNI88]

Zelensky apparently had to take a break from the war and tell Europe they need green energy to stop Russia.

WTF?

Wonder if he gets a kickback.

Why not? It seems an appropriate response when your enemy uses oil and gas to pressure your potential supporters and suppliers

[SeattleGriz]

Zelensky apparently had to take a break from the war and tell Europe they need green energy to stop Russia.

WTF?

Wonder if he gets a kickback.

Why not? It seems an appropriate response when your enemy uses oil and gas to pressure your potential supporters and suppliers

How fast do you think Europe can switch over to help Zelensky? What green energy is Ukraine using?

[UNI88]

Why not? It seems an appropriate response when your enemy uses oil and gas to pressure your potential supporters and suppliers

How fast do you think Europe can switch over to help Zelensky? What green energy is Ukraine using?

He's not an idiot. He knows the call isn't going to result in any changes that help Ukraine with the current Russian aggression but it is good PR and a shot across Russia's bow that there could be longer term consequences. Zelensky is worried about Ukraine's survival and is smart to pressure Putin every way he can. With that in mind, it doesn't matter what green energy Ukraine is using.

[CID1990]

Zelensky apparently had to take a break from the war and tell Europe they need green energy to stop Russia.

WTF?

Wonder if he gets a kickback from those telling him what to do.

Its a no-brainer …. makes total sense from the UKR perspective

If Russia cannot sell fossil fuels to the EU, theyre toast no matter how much China buys


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[SDHornet]

News and graphic vids didn't spread around the world in mere minutes in those days. And no, I'm sure they didn't give a fuck then, and the Ukrainians don't give a fuck now(even though Zelensky claimed there would be an investigation ).

No one here is trying to justify they invasion, and classifying anyone that makes counternarratives to the warmongering media and politicians is a "putin puppet" doesn't help things either.

The correct term is "useful fool". Comrade.

You'd be one to know.

[SDHornet]

News and graphic vids didn't spread around the world in mere minutes in those days. And no, I'm sure they didn't give a fuck then, and the Ukrainians don't give a fuck now(even though Zelensky claimed there would be an investigation ).

No one here is trying to justify they invasion, and classifying anyone that makes counternarratives to the warmongering media and politicians is a "putin puppet" doesn't help things either.

I don’t see any counter narratives to the warmongering media. I see a bunch of passive aggressive yes butting from people who just two months ago were prone to praising Vladimir Putin but don’t have much of an audience now. Whether there are Nazis in Mariupol or Russian POWs have been shot is immaterial- if we were going to war with Russia, none of those things would make us tap the brakes. If you want a counter narrative, point out how Russia is actually not the aggressor here. It would be factually incorrect but at least it would be counter warmongering.

Our government thus far has done the right thing keeping us and NATO out of this war, and will continue to do so absent a direct attack on NATO. If you’re scared of “warmongering media” I’d suggest deep breaths. If we get into this war it will be because of Vladimir Putin, not CNN.


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The folks questioning are involvement in this debacle are castigated as a pro-russia troll. Regarding us going to war, meh. Normally I'd say it wouldn't happen. We didn't do shit when Putin took a piece of Georgia under W. We didn't do shit when Putin took Crimea under Obama. We won't do shit when Putin gobbles up eastern Ukraine under Biden...

...nor should we. We don't have a defense treaty with them, and neither does NATO...for good reason. The warmongering is from the elite/uniparty and their lapdog legacy media and that is because they are riled up about losing their grift machine. Then there are the boomers that are buying into the warmongering so they can relive their "muh Russia" days as it brings back some nostalgia for them in their "glory" years.

The only wildcard in this is Bidens' dementia, and whether or not he forgets where he is and accidentally hits the button for a nuke strike whilst thinking he is calling in the maid for another round of Ensure.