Coronavirus COVID-19

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

I am so glad that most of America is just going about their business no matter how hard the media is trying to make this a big deal. Real Americans understand this is like half a flu and no big deal unless you are older and I dont even really buy that, its gotta be close to the same as the average flu each year.

The difference is the flu kills 10s of thousands more people

[CAA Flagship]

So a few things, unventilated spaces are health hazards because you're not introducing new air and removing contaminated ones. That's why code requires air changes (ventilation) in nearly every type of facility, but especially so with healthcare.

However, healthcare is tricky because not only do you have to filter the air coming in, you have to filter the air going out so you're not introducing hazardous particulates and pathogens. This is done with HEPA filters which only specialized systems can safely handle.

In hospitals, ventilation also pressurizes the entire building and even within each zone, the spaces are positively pressurized (with the air leaving through dedicated returns). Since air is a fluid and wants to reach equilibrium, if the spaces aren't positively pressurized, outside (unfiltered) air with all its issues begin to enter. And equally so in the other direction if you don't give the air dedicated, filtered ways to return back outside.

And of course without air-conditioning, you introduce moisture which is a whole different issue in healthcare.

Assuming ordinary conditions, sure. But we're in extraordinary times and extraordinary measures should be taken. Are the triage tents set up to handle hospital overflow going to be ventilated per these standards? Probably not. So again, why not use a local HS gym/convention center, auditoriums, etc as a stop gap?

Also I deal with hazardous environments at work all the time as they relate to confined space (non-medical). We shoot for 12 air changes an hour for normal working conditions, 6 at a bare minimum for areas where regular maintenance doesn't occur. Our guys always have to have sniffers on them regardless.

Regarding HVAC, whatever system you set up for a temp facility has a chance to be used on an existing structure as well. Every gym has huge doors that can be fitted with ducts and a temp system so the existing system doesn't have to be used. But then you run into an ingress/egress issue for fire safety.

Like I said originally, there must be some reason they are not using schools. It would be one of those many situations you come across where the answer is not obvious, but valid once you hear all the issues. I'd love to hear it.

[AZGrizFan]

I am so glad that most of America is just going about their business no matter how hard the media is trying to make this a big deal. Real Americans understand this is like half a flu and no big deal unless you are older and I dont even really buy that, its gotta be close to the same as the average flu each year.

The difference is the flu kills 10s of thousands more people

Don’t know where you’re at, but here in San Antonio “most” are most certainly NOT “going about their business”....empty roads going to work....empty store shelves...restaurants and bars closed...schools closed....

[Winterborn]

I am so glad that most of America is just going about their business no matter how hard the media is trying to make this a big deal. Real Americans understand this is like half a flu and no big deal unless you are older and I dont even really buy that, its gotta be close to the same as the average flu each year.

The difference is the flu kills 10s of thousands more people

Don’t know where you’re at, but here in San Antonio “most” are most certainly NOT “going about their business”....empty roads going to work....empty store shelves...restaurants and bars closed...schools closed....

Here in the upper Midwest, it is close to the same. Except Menard's, Home Depot, and Lowe's are all busy with people doing home projects.

[BDKJMU]

There is a god.
https://deadline.com/2020/03/coronaviru ... 202889800/

[JohnStOnge]

Correct. See the 2014 assessment I posted earlier.

Different levels of mitigation/suppression between cities, states, countries would suggest otherwise.

Post the link and I’ll read it.

I posted it earlier but here it is again: https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/92 ... 135590/en/

It is by no means the only reference you can find saying the same thing. I just picked that one because it was done well before this current situation came up.

I don't know what you mean about different levels of mitigation/suppression between cities, states, and countries suggesting otherwise. The United States was, to my knowledge, the most aggressive early on among New World nations in implementing travel bans. The United States now has the highest total case count as well as the highest per capita case count among New World nations.

Italy was the first nation in Europe to implement a China travel ban. Italy has the highest number of cases and the highest per capita case count in Europe.

Italy and the United States are #2 and #3 behind China in total known cases right now.

Under those circumstances, I just don't see how anybody could say it looks like implementing China travel bans early on had significant effects. To me what is going on with this pandemic is validating the conclusions of the study linked above.

[∞∞∞]

I am so glad that most of America is just going about their business no matter how hard the media is trying to make this a big deal. Real Americans understand this is like half a flu and no big deal unless you are older and I dont even really buy that, its gotta be close to the same as the average flu each year.

The difference is the flu kills 10s of thousands more people

Yeah just like the flu, where some people are completely asymptomatic and others die. Just like the flu where we have no vaccines against it. Just like the flu that we're quickly running out of ventilators to keep people alive.

Even if it's just like the flu, I'd rather we not have two deadly viruses to deal with. The flu already does enough social and economic damage.

Some here sound like anti-vaxxers, but I'm not surprised since people don't give a sh*t about those who are vulnerable.

Real Americans love each other and understand a short-term sacrifice is necessary for a long-term benefit.

[JohnStOnge]

I am so glad that most of America is just going about their business no matter how hard the media is trying to make this a big deal. Real Americans understand this is like half a flu and no big deal unless you are older and I dont even really buy that, its gotta be close to the same as the average flu each year.

The difference is the flu kills 10s of thousands more people

I honestly hope you are not serious about that because at this point that outlook is obviously misguided. I actually leaned in that direction at one point. I was supposed to be traveling to California this week. A few weeks ago my wife started expressing concern about me doing that due to her elderly mother living with us. I gave her all sorts of numbers about how if she was worried about me bringing home something that would kill her mother there was much more of a chance that it would be the flu. I said that was the case even though her mother had the flu vaccine based on the effectiveness of the flu vaccine.

But at this point the idea that this is nothing unusual and is just background in the context of the ordinary seasonal flu impacts is no longer tenable. What's going on in Italy right now, for instance, is not normal. Italy is impacted by the seasonal flu every year just as we are. And what's going on in terms of the stress on their system right now is not something that happens every year due to the seasonal flu.

What's going on in Washington State where they are having to rent hotels to make extra room for hospital beds isn't typical either.

If "real Americans" think they "understand" that this is like a "half a flu and no big deal" those "real Americans" need to get their heads out of their rectums.

[kalm]

Different levels of mitigation/suppression between cities, states, countries would suggest otherwise.

Post the link and I’ll read it.

I posted it earlier but here it is again: https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/92 ... 135590/en/

It is by no means the only reference you can find saying the same thing. I just picked that one because it was done well before this current situation came up.

I don't know what you mean about different levels of mitigation/suppression between cities, states, and countries suggesting otherwise. The United States was, to my knowledge, the most aggressive early on among New World nations in implementing travel bans. The United States now has the highest total case count as well as the highest per capita case count among New World nations.

Italy was the first nation in Europe to implement a China travel ban. Italy has the highest number of cases and the highest per capita case count in Europe.

Italy and the United States are #2 and #3 behind China in total known cases right now.

Under those circumstances, I just don't see how anybody could say it looks like implementing China travel bans early on had significant effects. To me what is going on with this pandemic is validating the conclusions of the study linked above.

You can break it down further by state and metropolitan area. As of this afternoon, Italy, Spain, Cali, WA, King County, show a little flattening of the curve whereas DFW is showing it’s about to spike.

Some locations, states, and countries have been more proactive than others. EG: Idaho last I looked had taken very few precautionary measures.

Experts suggest a second, third, fourth round of hot spots. Travel spreads those hot spots.

[JohnStOnge]

Here's the thing: People keep comparing this to the total number of cases and death associated with a typical seasonal flu season. I did that too early on. But the numbers aren't in on this thing. It just started. A lot of the information is anecdotal but it is still compelling. Epidemiologists believe it is more contagious than the typical seasonal flu. When all this first started I thought it likely that it was less contagious. But it appears the truth is otherwise.

Also, it appears very likely that the proportion of cases with severe consequences is larger than that associated with the flu. An anecdotal example is the situation with the New Jersey family that, so far, has lost four members to the disease: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51978164

I suppose scenarios like that may have happened in the past with the seasonal flu. But if so I've never heard of one.

And, again: What's going on in Italy is not normal. That is NOT something that happens every year with the seasonal flu.

The point isn't that the numbers are greater than the typical seasonal flu right now. The point is that this is different and we are trying to keep the impact from BECOMING much greater than that of the typical seasonal flu.

It's not the cold. It's not the typical seasonal flu It's potentially much worse if we don't take action to mitigate the situation. People need to quit buying into the "this is no big deal" crap that is, unfortunately, tending to come form the conservative side.

[Baldy]

Is Trump to thin-skinned and insecure to reach out and work together to lead this country?

Is Nancy to bitter to take his call?

Will Tom quit being so preachy and learn how to capitalize and punctuate correctly?

[JohnStOnge]

I posted it earlier but here it is again: https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/92 ... 135590/en/

It is by no means the only reference you can find saying the same thing. I just picked that one because it was done well before this current situation came up.

I don't know what you mean about different levels of mitigation/suppression between cities, states, and countries suggesting otherwise. The United States was, to my knowledge, the most aggressive early on among New World nations in implementing travel bans. The United States now has the highest total case count as well as the highest per capita case count among New World nations.

Italy was the first nation in Europe to implement a China travel ban. Italy has the highest number of cases and the highest per capita case count in Europe.

Italy and the United States are #2 and #3 behind China in total known cases right now.

Under those circumstances, I just don't see how anybody could say it looks like implementing China travel bans early on had significant effects. To me what is going on with this pandemic is validating the conclusions of the study linked above.

You can break it down further by state and metropolitan area. As of this afternoon, Italy, Spain, Cali, WA, King County, show a little flattening of the curve whereas DFW is showing it’s about to spike.

Some locations, states, and countries have been more proactive than others. EG: Idaho last I looked had taken very few precautionary measures.

Experts suggest a second, third, fourth round of hot spots. Travel spreads those hot spots.

I would say that "curve flattening" is likely largely a result of measures other than travel bans. Italy, Spain, Cali, WA, and King County have been doing a lot of things to try to achieve "social distancing."

[kalm]

You can break it down further by state and metropolitan area. As of this afternoon, Italy, Spain, Cali, WA, King County, show a little flattening of the curve whereas DFW is showing it’s about to spike.

Some locations, states, and countries have been more proactive than others. EG: Idaho last I looked had taken very few precautionary measures.

Experts suggest a second, third, fourth round of hot spots. Travel spreads those hot spots.

I would say that "curve flattening" is likely largely a result of measures other than travel bans. Italy, Spain, Cali, WA, and King County have been doing a lot of things to try to achieve "social distancing."

That’s my point. Part of suppression is not just people staying in their homes, it’s limiting the spread from region to region.

[UNI88]

Is Trump to thin-skinned and insecure to reach out and work together to lead this country?

Is Nancy to bitter to take his call?

Will Tom quit being so preachy and learn how to capitalize and punctuate correctly?

That's all you've got? That's like asking Trump to quit acting like a petulant child. Brokaw is going to preach but the underlying questions are valid.

[JohnStOnge]

Check this out:

https://www.brproud.com/health/coronavi ... -outbreak/

And this takes the cake:

[kalm]

Will Tom quit being so preachy and learn how to capitalize and punctuate correctly?

That's all you've got? That's like asking Trump to quit acting like a petulant child. Brokaw is going to preach but the underlying questions are valid.

We need to shut everything down for at least a month (some states and locations are behind the curve).

Then slowly come back guardedly and wait for the vaccine.

[BDKJMU]

NYC health dept advocates masturbation over sex with spouse or live in gf/bf
https://nypost.com/2020/03/21/nyc-healt ... -sex-memo/

[Baldy]

Will Tom quit being so preachy and learn how to capitalize and punctuate correctly?

That's all you've got? That's like asking Trump to quit acting like a petulant child. Brokaw is going to preach but the underlying questions are valid.

I don't care what a news reader's opinions are, but reading that Tweet gave me a headache.

[CAA Flagship]

NYC health dept advocates masturbation over sex with spouse or live in gf/bf
https://nypost.com/2020/03/21/nyc-healt ... -sex-memo/

How about that? I'm a pioneer.

[Chizzang]

[JohnStOnge]

I would say that "curve flattening" is likely largely a result of measures other than travel bans. Italy, Spain, Cali, WA, and King County have been doing a lot of things to try to achieve "social distancing."

That’s my point. Part of suppression is not just people staying in their homes, it’s limiting the spread from region to region.

All I can say is read the assessment I linked. Also Google around. It appears to me that the consensus among epidemiologists is that implementing travel restrictions has modest effects at best.

And, again, when you look at the case numbers in various nations there is no obvious association between how soon nations implemented travel restrictions and where their case numbers and cases per capita numbers are now. The country in Europe that was first to implement a China travel ban has the worst situation in Europe. The country in the Americas that was first to implement a China travel ban has the worst situation in the Americas.

Note that and circle back around to things like that study I linked and another one I linked earlier. That one is described at https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus ... eness.html.

What I'm really getting at is that when Trump is criticized about not responding early on to the situation he points to his travel ban as though that was REALLY something. What studies such as those described in the links I provided say is that travel bans are not a major factor in stopping pandemics. Other measures are more important. Trump just did a travel ban and thought that was all he needed to do. That was a serious miscalculation.

Just scan around and read stuff in that 2014 assessment I posted. Here is the link again: https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/92 ... 135590/en/. Thinking you're really doing something by implementing travel bans is deceiving yourself.

[CID1990]

Are you traveling there for radiation alone? I know you couldn't for chemo.

Yeah. Radiation doesn't make me puke on the way back to the car or doze off while riding. Driving hasn't been an issue with radiation.

Only side effect so far is I felt like a mild hangover and a REALLY dry mouth the morning after both treatments. That could be the couple of DFH 90's I've been pounding before bed though.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kalm]

That’s my point. Part of suppression is not just people staying in their homes, it’s limiting the spread from region to region.

All I can say is read the assessment I linked. Also Google around. It appears to me that the consensus among epidemiologists is that implementing travel restrictions has modest effects at best.

And, again, when you look at the case numbers in various nations there is no obvious association between how soon nations implemented travel restrictions and where their case numbers and cases per capita numbers are now. The country in Europe that was first to implement a China travel ban has the worst situation in Europe. The country in the Americas that was first to implement a China travel ban has the worst situation in the Americas.

Note that and circle back around to things like that study I linked and another one I linked earlier. That one is described at https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus ... eness.html.

What I'm really getting at is that when Trump is criticized about not responding early on to the situation he points to his travel ban as though that was REALLY something. What studies such as those described in the links I provided say is that travel bans are not a major factor in stopping pandemics. Other measures are more important. Trump just did a travel ban and thought that was all he needed to do. That was a serious miscalculation.

Just scan around and read stuff in that 2014 assessment I posted. Here is the link again: https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/92 ... 135590/en/. Thinking you're really doing something by implementing travel bans is deceiving yourself.

I agree on Trump hanging his hat on the travel band. That’s stupid political posturing.

Your link is 8,000 pages long, from 2014, and cites international trade disruption right off the bat.

This is where numbers guys throw out common sense. If it’s being contained in one area while another sees it exploding, it will spread (again) back to the contained area if you allow travel. This will repeatedly happen until it’s isolated or a vaccine comes out.

It will literally spread more with ANY travel.

[Pwns]

Twitter thread with interesting data about testing from the USSG.

[SDHornet]

Twitter thread with interesting data about testing from the USSG.

Or they just don't have it yet.

Numbers are going through the rough for NY. I'm assuming most of those numbers are coming from NYC. Surprised CA's numbers haven't spiked yet. I expect SF and LA to get ravaged. I'm assuming NY has kicked it into high gear regarding testing and CA is probably too busy with other stuff like giving money to illegals and homeless.