Breaking: Active Shooter HS Broward Co, FL

[89Hen]

Yes, but we both know that's not what you meant. Just walk away from this one.

Wait a second here Mr. 89 pants...
You're constantly telling me that I'm telling you what you think or what you mean..?

Truth hurts.

[kalm]

You can make that case for some organizations for sure. BDK was just being a little flippant with his generalization. Besides, bureaucratic waste and a need for increased police presence aren’t exactly the same issue.

Well it certainly can't be that way across the board - but in every instance where I have been involved with local school districts (including actually having been a SRO for two years) - I've seen that public school districts exceed the normal government tendency to be top heavy with administrators. Part of it is because of grant money for things like "superintendent of X" and the other is because admins are constantly pushing to create new positions for their friends to get out and above regular teacher pay. It is a similar effect that causes us to have, for example, SIX US Consulates in France in addition to the Embassy in Paris.

This makes sense.

[Chizzang]

Wait a second here Mr. 89 pants...
You're constantly telling me that I'm telling you what you think or what you mean..?

Truth hurts.

Yes I'm devastated...

[AZGrizFan]

Yeah! Cheney School District with a $58 million budget, a dozen facilities, 100’s of employees, and serving 5,000 kids could practically run itself!

My experience with school districts leads me to believe that a 50% reduction in school district admin types would largely do unnoticed.

Im not talking about principals as much as I am talking about the glut of make-work positions for Ph.Ds at the district offices


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Cave Creek USD in Cave Creek (where we were before moving to TX) had 7 total facilities. 1 HS, 1 MS and 5 Elementary schools. Serves about 6,000 kids. This district has a Superintendent, 2 Associate Superintendents, 12 directors of departments, a Dean of Students at the HS and 7 principals and 7 assistant principals.

You telling me there isn’t one person per school that could be replaced with a security guard on a flat budget?

[CAA Flagship]

Oh brother.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/busi ... sales.html

[GannonFan]

Oh brother.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/busi ... sales.html

Egads, what a rabbit hole this would be. What if banks were pressured to not allow credit card payments for a whole host of things that activists decide are unsavory and should be punished? What if you had to resort to cash to buy porn? To buy alcohol? To buy things from a country we don't like? The sentiment is nice, but it appears to be an end-around of the lawmaking process. Once we have to resort to other means, rather than the law, to accomplish something it does get worrisome.

[Ibanez]

There is precedent for credit card issuers to ban the purchase of completely legal products. Just this month, JPMorgan Chase, Citigroup and Bank of America banned the use of their cards to buy Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.

To be clear: Those three banks won’t let you use your credit card to buy Bitcoin, but they will happily let you use it to buy an AR-15-style semiautomatic rifle

Yeah - a gun is the same as an unstable, form of currency. Is Visa/Mastercard to ban fast food sales to help the obesity epidemic?

[HI54UNI]

Oh brother.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/busi ... sales.html

Didn't Bank of America already do something similar to gun shops?

And let's make all gun related transactions go to cash. That will make things better.

[Skjellyfetti]

Tangentially related:

SCOTUS refuses to hear appeal to California's 10-day waiting period for gun purchases.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politi ... d_nn_fb_ma

Contrary to what Cid and others argue - the 2nd amendment is not unlimited. The 2nd amendment does not have to be repealed to enact gun control legislation. The debate is over where to draw the line - not that any line is unconstitutional.

[Gil Dobie]

Oh brother.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/busi ... sales.html

Didn't Bank of America already do something similar to gun shops?

And let's make all gun related transactions go to cash. That will make things better.

It sure was a lot easier for me to buy guns in the 1960's & 70's.

[GannonFan]

Tangentially related:

SCOTUS refuses to hear appeal to California's 10-day waiting period for gun purchases.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politi ... d_nn_fb_ma

Contrary to what Cid and others argue - the 2nd amendment is not unlimited. The 2nd amendment does not have to be repealed to enact gun control legislation. The debate is over where to draw the line - not that any line is unconstitutional.

Has anyone ever really said that the 2nd amendment is unlimited (well, JSO did, but he doesn't count because he's crazy)? Automatic weapons are already restricted and banned, and since that's been in place and accepted for almost 90 years now I would say we have a pretty good precedent of limiting with regards to the 2nd amendment. There's always (well, for a long time anyway) been a line.

The problem is that the line that would need to be drawn to both satisfy the gun control advocates as well as the line that would be needed to really have a chance to reduce gun violence in America would be the line that would ban guns, including handguns, from most citizens. That's a line that is very hard, if not impossible to draw, in this country with the 2nd amendment in play. Waiting periods, improved background checks, specific model restrictions, etc, may be what we ultimately do, but in the end, will do very little, if anything, to impact the prevalence of gun violence in our culture.

[Skjellyfetti]

I'm talking about the people that come in to the threads and just say "Repeal the 2nd Amendment or STFU." There are other options.

I'm thinking mainly of your well reasoned thread inviting discussion after Last Vegas. But, it happens in every gun thread.

[AZGrizFan]

I'm talking about the people that come in to the threads and just say "Repeal the 2nd Amendment or STFU." There are other options.

I'm thinking mainly of your well reasoned thread inviting discussion after Last Vegas. But, it happens in every gun thread.

If that's what you're hearing, you're not listening very well.

[Skjellyfetti]

Orly?

Repeal the 2nd Amendment or STFU

Here we go again

So here I go again

Repeal the 2nd Amendment or STFU

[GannonFan]

I'm talking about the people that come in to the threads and just say "Repeal the 2nd Amendment or STFU." There are other options.

I'm thinking mainly of your well reasoned thread inviting discussion after Last Vegas. But, it happens in every gun thread.

I still think a big issue is going to be that in order to really address gun violence we're going to need to prohibit guns to a vast majority of people, and besides the fact that a good chunk of those people vehemently would oppose that, the 2nd amendment itself really stands in the way of that (and maybe that where I thought the repeal or stfu folks were coming from - maybe I was being optimistic in terms of their position). Think the attempt by Chicago to outlaw guns, including handguns there - that got slapped down immediately. I think we can do a lot of the "common sense" gun stuff that advocates are pushing now, but that we're going to find that they are woefully inadequate to impact gun violence in America.

[AZGrizFan]

Tangentially related:

Contrary to what Cid and others argue...

I'm talking about the people that come in to the threads and just say "Repeal the 2nd Amendment or STFU."

Orly?

[Skjellyfetti]

Tangentially related:

Contrary to what Cid and others say...

I'm talking about the people that come in to the threads and just say "Repeal the 2nd Amendment or STFU."

Orly?

JSO. Alphie.

Christ. If you want me amend it to just Cid so bad I'll do it.

[AZGrizFan]

Orly?

JSO. Alphie.

Find the quotes, bub. Otherwise "and others" "people" is just CID...and he's a grad of Citadel, so not even sure he counts.

[Ibanez]

Oh brother.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/busi ... sales.html

Didn't Bank of America already do something similar to gun shops?

And let's make all gun related transactions go to cash. That will make things better.

Bank of America did not.

[CID1990]

Tangentially related:

SCOTUS refuses to hear appeal to California's 10-day waiting period for gun purchases.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politi ... d_nn_fb_ma

Contrary to what Cid and others argue - the 2nd amendment is not unlimited. The 2nd amendment does not have to be repealed to enact gun control legislation. The debate is over where to draw the line - not that any line is unconstitutional.

Wrong again, Midget.

I don't argue that the 2nd amendment is unlimited - but as usual I'm first in your mind

Short waiting periods are not a denial of due process - part of the precedent can be found in investigative detentions

which big school shooting would waiting periods have stopped again? I forget

keep trying


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[Skjellyfetti]

Well, we could institute waiting periods without repealing the 2nd amendment. So, it's NOT: "Repeal the 2nd amendment or STFU."

There's plenty of gun control legislation that could be passed that would not violate the 2nd amendment.

[CID1990]

Well, we could institute waiting periods without repealing the 2nd amendment. So, it's NOT: "Repeal the 2nd amendment or STFU."

There's plenty of gun control legislation that could be passed that would not violate the 2nd amendment.

You are on a dipshit roll today, Junior.

I have said, always and continuously that you cannot have EFFECTIVE gun control regulations without running afoul of the 2nd Amendment.... i.e.: denying a right without due process of law.

Waiting periods are already in effect in MANY places. And I have never argued against them. In fact, I am strongly for them. Background checks are not instantaneous and sellers need time for verification. Just as with investigative detentions. I'll let you look up the case law since you've lost your Googles today.

And at the end of the day this is all just a straw man unless you can tell me how waiting periods would have stopped any of our famous mass shootings.

So if you want to stop school shootings, repeal the 2nd Amendment, or STFU.

[BDKJMU]

My experience with school districts leads me to believe that a 50% reduction in school district admin types would largely do unnoticed.

Im not talking about principals as much as I am talking about the glut of make-work positions for Ph.Ds at the district offices


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You can make that case for some organizations for sure. BDK was just being a little flippant with his generalization. Besides, bureaucratic waste and a need for increased police presence aren’t exactly the same issue.

Not flippant, but anecdotal. Older brother is a school teacher in CT, and I've heard him make similar statements as Cid did. Griping along the lines of being told they don't have $$ for ____ , but their district keeps hiring more 6 figure administrators and vice principals..(even though their population/# of schools isn't growing)..Basically how bloated they were admin wise..I was assuming it was similar in a lot of other places..

[kalm]

You can make that case for some organizations for sure. BDK was just being a little flippant with his generalization. Besides, bureaucratic waste and a need for increased police presence aren’t exactly the same issue.

Not flippant, but anecdotal. Older brother is a school teacher in CT, and I've heard him make similar statements as Cid did. Griping along the lines of being told they don't have $$ for ____ , but their district keeps hiring more 6 figure administrators and vice principals..(even though their population/# of schools isn't growing)..Basically how bloated they were admin wise..I was assuming it was similar in a lot of other places..

You could be right and I don't doubt for one second that there's redundancy and waste.

[Gil Dobie]

You can make that case for some organizations for sure. BDK was just being a little flippant with his generalization. Besides, bureaucratic waste and a need for increased police presence aren’t exactly the same issue.

Not flippant, but anecdotal. Older brother is a school teacher in CT, and I've heard him make similar statements as Cid did. Griping along the lines of being told they don't have $$ for ____ , but their district keeps hiring more 6 figure administrators and vice principals..(even though their population/# of schools isn't growing)..Basically how bloated they were admin wise..I was assuming it was similar in a lot of other places..

Metal detectors are about $3-5000 each, hand held wands about $150. Fair price for the safety of your child in school.