Common Sense Gun Control

[houndawg]

Its like yo're compelled by an outside force to be full of shit...

1) We did have mass shootings at schools before Columbine. Matter of public record

2) Guns clearly are a huge part of the issue since at least 1840 when a law student shot a law professor

3) Since students have been shooting teachers/other students for at least 180 years your claim that its the students that have changed is clearly erroneous.

In short, guns are what has changed since the first of thousands of school shootings occured in 1840.

Thats why we need to pass Progressive Gun Control

BDMSQT

8 of the top 9 in deaths since columbine
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... death_toll

We’ve had semi autos with detachable mags for decades before before Columbine.

So it clearly isn’t the guns when it comes to the rate of mass shootings that we didn’t have before Clumbine.

And you think students haven’t changed? Dementiadawg

We had a ten-year ban on assault style weapons. Compare, Contrast. Weep.

[kalm]

8 of the top 9 in deaths since columbine
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... death_toll

We’ve had semi autos with detachable mags for decades before before Columbine.

So it clearly isn’t the guns when it comes to the rate of mass shootings that we didn’t have before Clumbine.

And you think students haven’t changed? Dementiadawg

We had a ten-year ban on assault style weapons. Compare, Contrast. Weep.

Not to mention comparisons with other countries. The coincidence of those refusing any gun control with covid death comparisons (like SG mentioned earlier) with other countries is not surprising in the least.

[Winterborn]

We had a ten-year ban on assault style weapons. Compare, Contrast. Weep.

Not to mention comparisons with other countries. The coincidence of those refusing any gun control with covid death comparisons (like SG mentioned earlier) with other countries is not surprising in the least.

The ban did nothing to change the amount of mass school shootings or trends.

And if you want to compare to other countries go right ahead. But your assumptions better reflect the apples to coconut comparison it is when you compare any country with the USA.

[kalm]

Not to mention comparisons with other countries. The coincidence of those refusing any gun control with covid death comparisons (like SG mentioned earlier) with other countries is not surprising in the least.

The ban did nothing to change the amount of mass school shootings or trends.

And if you want to compare to other countries go right ahead. But your assumptions better reflect the apples to coconut comparison it is when you compare any country with the USA.

I’m not sure the ban did “nothing”. And while there’s no silver bullet, a cultural shift away from the fetishism of violence is part of the solution.

As for other countries, don’t let imperfect comparisons be the enemy of the good.

[houndawg]

School shootings by decade

1840s - 1
1850s - 3
1860s - 5
1870s - 7
1880s - 10
1890s - 6

1900s - 13
1910s - 18
1920s - 10
1930s - 7
1940s - 8
1950s - 19
1960s - 21
1970s - 40
1980s - 60
1990s - 92

2000s - 68
2010s - 228
2020s - 72 through May

looks like the bar was raised first in the 70s - about the time the War on the Middle Class started ginning up and I'll bet there is a pretty good correlation between these numbers and our population growth too. JSO where yat?

[BDKJMU]

These threads always remind me of the classic Onion headline.

'No Way To Prevent This,' Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

Just post 1945, 430ish massacres listed worldwide, 17 in the US if you add Uvalde. Majority guns, but lots of other from knives to bombs to vehicles to gas to fire.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... _massacres
So the US about 4% of the world’s population, and 4% of its massacres. And if you make some guns illegal, determined people will still find a way to committ mass murder, be it illegal guns, legal guns, bombs, vehicles, etc.

[BDKJMU]

School shootings by decade

1840s - 1
1850s - 3
1860s - 5
1870s - 7
1880s - 10
1890s - 6

1900s - 13
1910s - 18
1920s - 10
1930s - 7
1940s - 8
1950s - 19
1960s - 21
1970s - 40
1980s - 60
1990s - 92

2000s - 68
2010s - 228
2020s - 72 through May

looks like the bar was raised first in the 70s - about the time the War on the Middle Class started ginning up and I'll bet there is a pretty good correlation between these numbers and our population growth too. JSO where yat?

What is the criteria? 1 shot? Multiple? 1 killed? Multiple? Police shootings? On school property? Off school property but the roundbd(s) hit someone on school property? Your #s are BS without a link, Chizzang.

[BDKJMU]

In the Buffalo shooting the gun was purchased legally and NY also has a Red Flag law on the books. Several of the more recent shootings the individuals were prohibited from owning firearms and had them taken away but family gave them back before they committed the shootings.

The Assault Weapon ban of the mid 90's did nothing to changed the amount or nature of mass shootings. No amount of limiting magazines, types of stocks, etc. is going to cut down on what is clearly a mental health issue. In fact most school shootings have been done by individuals under 21 years old. If one wants to propose limiting the ability to purchase till after that age, good luck as the Supreme Court has already shot that one down as infringement of the 2A.

A national "Red Flag" law is also never going to pass due to many venues for abuse (nor would I support such a bill). If states want to pass one, they are free to do so, but it will not lessen the frequency of these events.


Reason has a good article highlighitng some of the problems with the most common "solutions" mentioned here and elsewhere for these types of issues.

Despite their practical limitations, expanded background checks are highly popular (although not quite as popular as Schumer suggested). A 2021 Morning Consult poll found that 84 percent of voters, including 91 percent of Democrats and 77 percent of Republicans, agreed that background checks should be required for all gun sales.

Schumer thinks the popularity of expanded background checks shows they are a "common sense" response to mass shootings. But this would not be the first time that "common sense" was wrong. "It's one thing to say that, regardless of the facts, you should just do something," Sen. Mike Rounds (R–S.D.) observed. "The question is whether something you would do would actually make a difference."

Even when it comes to the much larger category of gun homicides, there is little evidence that broad background-check laws "actually make a difference." A 2019 study found that California's 1991 expansion of background checks "was not associated with a net change in the firearm homicide rate over the ensuing 10 years."

...

In a 2017 column that The New York Times republished in response to the Uvalde massacre, Nicholas Kristof, who supports new restrictions on firearms (including expanded background checks), notes that "the 10-year ban on assault weapons accomplished little, partly because definitions were about cosmetic features like bayonet mounts (and partly because even before the ban, such guns were used in only 2 percent of crimes)." Mary McCord, executive director of the Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection at Georgetown University Law Center, glides over those points in another Time opinion piece published today, conflating arbitrarily defined "assault weapons" with "semiautomatic weapons," a much broader category that encompasses most handguns and many rifles that would not be covered by the ban that Biden supports.

https://reason.com/2022/05/25/in-respon ... trol-laws/

Bingo, but that’s not the most important thing. The most important thing is for liberals to feel that banning black and scary lookig guns makes a difference..Feelings are what matters here..

[BDKJMU]

Not to mention comparisons with other countries. The coincidence of those refusing any gun control with covid death comparisons (like SG mentioned earlier) with other countries is not surprising in the least.

The ban did nothing to change the amount of mass school shootings or trends.

And if you want to compare to other countries go right ahead. But your assumptions better reflect the apples to coconut comparison it is when you compare any country with the USA.

Unfortunately sometimes you have to repeat yourself multiple times on here…

[BDKJMU]

I’m glad our President is so well informed about weapons during this period…

Obama: I was the greates gun sales man ever! Over 100 guns million sold 7 years into my presidency, along with hundreds of millions of magazines, and tens of billions of rounds!
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa ... y-n2091526
Biden: Hold my beer!

[Baldy]

School shootings by decade

1840s - 1
1850s - 3
1860s - 5
1870s - 7
1880s - 10
1890s - 6

1900s - 13
1910s - 18
1920s - 10
1930s - 7
1940s - 8
1950s - 19
1960s - 21
1970s - 40
1980s - 60
1990s - 92

2000s - 68
2010s - 228
2020s - 72 through May

looks like the bar was raised first in the 70s - about the time the War on the Middle Class started ginning up and I'll bet there is a pretty good correlation between these numbers and our population growth too. JSO where yat?

What is the criteria? 1 shot? Multiple? 1 killed? Multiple? Police shootings? On school property? Off school property but the roundbd(s) hit someone on school property? Your #s are BS without a link, Chizzang.

Criteria?

That will change from year to year and decade to decade.

[houndawg]

School shootings by decade

1840s - 1
1850s - 3
1860s - 5
1870s - 7
1880s - 10
1890s - 6

1900s - 13
1910s - 18
1920s - 10
1930s - 7
1940s - 8
1950s - 19
1960s - 21
1970s - 40
1980s - 60
1990s - 92

2000s - 68
2010s - 228
2020s - 72 through May

looks like the bar was raised first in the 70s - about the time the War on the Middle Class started ginning up and I'll bet there is a pretty good correlation between these numbers and our population growth too. JSO where yat?

What is the criteria? 1 shot? Multiple? 1 killed? Multiple? Police shootings? On school property? Off school property but the roundbd(s) hit someone on school property? Your #s are BS without a link, Chizzang.

The criteria is that it was a shooting at a school. It doesn't take marksmanship into account.

Not a lot of action until after WW2 when you started seeing alot more semi-autos on the market, a few decades before Columbine.

Population growth and resultant crowding are very likely big contributors too, in keeping with the results of Calhoun's experiments on population density.

More people. More high-capacity weapons. More deaths.

[houndawg]

Not to mention comparisons with other countries. The coincidence of those refusing any gun control with covid death comparisons (like SG mentioned earlier) with other countries is not surprising in the least.

The ban did nothing to change the amount of mass school shootings or trends.

And if you want to compare to other countries go right ahead. But your assumptions better reflect the apples to coconut comparison it is when you compare any country with the USA.

And whats the reason (gun control) the comparisons are apples to coconuts?

[AZGrizFan]

School shootings by decade

1840s - 1
1850s - 3
1860s - 5
1870s - 7
1880s - 10
1890s - 6

1900s - 13
1910s - 18
1920s - 10
1930s - 7
1940s - 8
1950s - 19
1960s - 21
1970s - 40
1980s - 60
1990s - 92

2000s - 68
2010s - 228
2020s - 72 through May

looks like the bar was raised first in the 70s - about the time the War on the Middle Class started ginning up and I'll bet there is a pretty good correlation between these numbers and our population growth too. JSO where yat?

There’ve been 72 ‘school shootings” this year? Really? Do tell….

[SDHornet]

What is the criteria? 1 shot? Multiple? 1 killed? Multiple? Police shootings? On school property? Off school property but the roundbd(s) hit someone on school property? Your #s are BS without a link, Chizzang.

The criteria is that it was a shooting at a school. It doesn't take marksmanship into account.

Not a lot of action until after WW2 when you started seeing alot more semi-autos on the market, a few decades before Columbine.

Population growth and resultant crowding are very likely big contributors too, in keeping with the results of Calhoun's experiments on population density.

More people. More high-capacity weapons. More deaths.

Yeah any school in a gang infested neighborhood is going to have a "school shooting". I'm sure those gangbangers will follow whatever new laws the leftards are proposing will "solve" this problem.

Repeal the 2nd Amendment or shut the fuck up.

[SDHornet]

Interesting thread.

[SDHornet]

[houndawg]

The criteria is that it was a shooting at a school. It doesn't take marksmanship into account.

Not a lot of action until after WW2 when you started seeing alot more semi-autos on the market, a few decades before Columbine.

Population growth and resultant crowding are very likely big contributors too, in keeping with the results of Calhoun's experiments on population density.

More people. More high-capacity weapons. More deaths.

Yeah any school in a gang infested neighborhood is going to have a "school shooting". I'm sure those gangbangers will follow whatever new laws the leftards are proposing will "solve" this problem.

Repeal the 2nd Amendment or shut the fuck up.

somebody needs their blanky

[houndawg]

The criteria is that it was a shooting at a school. It doesn't take marksmanship into account.

Not a lot of action until after WW2 when you started seeing alot more semi-autos on the market, a few decades before Columbine.

Population growth and resultant crowding are very likely big contributors too, in keeping with the results of Calhoun's experiments on population density.

More people. More high-capacity weapons. More deaths.

Yeah any school in a gang infested neighborhood is going to have a "school shooting". I'm sure those gangbangers will follow whatever new laws the leftards are proposing will "solve" this problem.

Repeal the 2nd Amendment or shut the fuck up.

if you're going to adopt CID's position as your new one you should at least give him credit for doing your thinking for you...

[Ibanez]

Why does the number matter? You're still killing someone.

Scale. It’s not that complicated. it’s like worrying about school kids being killed when over 100 people a DAY are dying from fentanyl OD as it pours across our southern border. Ask yourself (deep introspection) why nobody bothers talking about THOSE people? Or the 50-100 people who get shot in Chicago literally EVERY weekend?

Never mind….rhetorical question….its not politically expedient. Doesn’t move a voter’s needle.

It’s not about the DEATHS. it’s about how those deaths can/cannot be leveraged to gain votes. That’s why fucktards like Beta do what they do.

And you never answered my question. Would you, or would you not, pull the trigger given the chance?

I'll kill in self-defense. It''s still taking a life but it's in preservation of my own or my family and doesn't involve the State.

[houndawg]

Scale. It’s not that complicated. it’s like worrying about school kids being killed when over 100 people a DAY are dying from fentanyl OD as it pours across our southern border. Ask yourself (deep introspection) why nobody bothers talking about THOSE people? Or the 50-100 people who get shot in Chicago literally EVERY weekend?

Never mind….rhetorical question….its not politically expedient. Doesn’t move a voter’s needle.

It’s not about the DEATHS. it’s about how those deaths can/cannot be leveraged to gain votes. That’s why fucktards like Beta do what they do.

And you never answered my question. Would you, or would you not, pull the trigger given the chance?

I'll kill in self-defense. It''s still taking a life but it's in preservation of my own or my family and doesn't involve the State.

What you really mean is it what color those deaths are.

[Ibanez]

Your experience has value and gives a better understanding of why you believe the things you do. I think you can make the argument that since God commanded the Jews to kill, then it was acceptable. They are just obeying their God. Which sounds batshit crazy but hey, that's where we are.

As I understand, even 1 aborted baby is 1 too many for the pro-life supporters. Why should we rationalize the death penalty based off the quantity?


I'm not sure we'll agree 100% on this, and that's fine, we don't need to. We both understand each others positions and I still have respect (and a small dash of love) for you. So really, the bigger question is when are you returning to CLT b/c I got some OG southern BBQ for you to try.

We probably don't and as a result we should sit down over some adult beverages and have a good debate. Too bad Ivy isn't around, as he could play arbitrator for us. And the respect goes both ways.

And the answer to your question is June 15-17 but I will be traveling with my boss, so not sure if I can escape of not. I am putting on a "Train the Trainer" event for a big client of ours and it promises to be a busy few days. I have another potential one in July/August time frame but not sure on the details yet.

No worries, i'm out of town during that time anyway.

[Winterborn]

School shootings by decade

1840s - 1
1850s - 3
1860s - 5
1870s - 7
1880s - 10
1890s - 6

1900s - 13
1910s - 18
1920s - 10
1930s - 7
1940s - 8
1950s - 19
1960s - 21
1970s - 40
1980s - 60
1990s - 92

2000s - 68
2010s - 228
2020s - 72 through May

looks like the bar was raised first in the 70s - about the time the War on the Middle Class started ginning up and I'll bet there is a pretty good correlation between these numbers and our population growth too. JSO where yat?

There’ve been 72 ‘school shootings” this year? Really? Do tell….

I was hoping he would go that route. That definition includes all gun related violence conducted on school property no matter who conducted (i.e. gang related, etc).

[houndawg]

There’ve been 72 ‘school shootings” this year? Really? Do tell….

I was hoping he would go that route. That definition includes all gun related violence conducted on school property no matter who conducted (i.e. gang related, etc).

That's why they call them "school shootings".

check it out, its interesting

[Winterborn]

The ban did nothing to change the amount of mass school shootings or trends.

And if you want to compare to other countries go right ahead. But your assumptions better reflect the apples to coconut comparison it is when you compare any country with the USA.

I’m not sure the ban did “nothing”. And while there’s no silver bullet, a cultural shift away from the fetishism of violence is part of the solution.

As for other countries, don’t let imperfect comparisons be the enemy of the good.

Look it up the data and objectively study it. Break it down by who, when , how, and why. Then get back to me. Statistically speaking, the assault weapon ban did nothing. There are plenty of comparisons between states that have different gun restrictions and those that do not. One can easily do a cross comparison, normalize the factors and look at the results. But that does not sell advertisement, nor does it get the particular bases worked up.

Truth of the matter is that the last two shootings (Buffalo and Uvalde), the shooter passed all background checks and had a clean psychiatric records. "Expanding" background checks would have done nothing to stop them.

Imperfect comparisons result in imperfect conclusions that unless studied in that light, results in false correlations