Three of those groups you menationed came willingly to their "doom."D1B wrote:Ironic that the answer to "What made America Great" is african slaves, white indentured servants from europe, the chinese (rail roads), the poor, and now Mexican labor.
All victims of unregulated capitalism.
Yeah, the majority came willingly...CID1990 wrote:Three of those groups you menationed came willingly to their "doom."D1B wrote:Ironic that the answer to "What made America Great" is african slaves, white indentured servants from europe, the chinese (rail roads), the poor, and now Mexican labor.
All victims of unregulated capitalism.
My ancestors were in one of those groups. I don't feel much like a victim, though.
What a crock of bullshit.D1B wrote:Ironic that the answer to "What made America Great" is african slaves, white indentured servants from europe, the chinese (rail roads), the poor, and now Mexican labor.
All victims of unregulated capitalism.
Why did they come willingly? Because America gave them the best chances of improving their situations!Skjellyfetti wrote:Yeah, the majority came willingly...CID1990 wrote:
Three of those groups you menationed came willingly to their "doom."
My ancestors were in one of those groups. I don't feel much like a victim, though.
... sweatshop workers, for the most part, work willingly. Does that make it right? To get back to our greatness as a true free market nation do we need to do away with child labor laws, minimum wage, etc.? Are you ok with sweatshops as long as they're working willingly?
Don't sweatshops give their workers the best chance available to them for improving their situations? Isn't that why they choose to work in those conditions?CID1990 wrote:Why did they come willingly? Because America gave them the best chances of improving their situations!
If you are defending indentured servitude and the treatment of Chinese railroad workers because they "chose" their fate... surely you would defend sweatshops as well.
Interesting. You make it sound like America INVENTED sweatshops, child labor, and slavery. That shit existed for centuries before America was even a gleam in disenfranchised British expatriates' eyes. If EVERY country had it, why did America become the GREATEST country?Skjellyfetti wrote:Yeah, the majority came willingly...CID1990 wrote:
Three of those groups you menationed came willingly to their "doom."
My ancestors were in one of those groups. I don't feel much like a victim, though.
... sweatshop workers, for the most part, work willingly. Does that make it right? To get back to our greatness as a true free market nation do we need to do away with child labor laws, minimum wage, etc.? Are you ok with sweatshops as long as they're working willingly?
AZGrizFan wrote:Interesting. You make it sound like America INVENTED sweatshops, child labor, and slavery. That shit existed for centuries before America was even a gleam in disenfranchised British expatriates' eyes. If EVERY country had it, why did America become the GREATEST country?Skjellyfetti wrote:
Yeah, the majority came willingly...
... sweatshop workers, for the most part, work willingly. Does that make it right? To get back to our greatness as a true free market nation do we need to do away with child labor laws, minimum wage, etc.? Are you ok with sweatshops as long as they're working willingly?
Their definition of "separated church and state" and YOUR definition of "separation of church and state" are LIGHT YEARS apart.D1B wrote:AZGrizFan wrote:
Interesting. You make it sound like America INVENTED sweatshops, child labor, and slavery. That shit existed for centuries before America was even a gleam in disenfranchised British expatriates' eyes. If EVERY country had it, why did America become the GREATEST country?
Atheist founding fathers separated church & state.
The founders wrote a Constitution which guaranteed freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.D1B wrote:AZGrizFan wrote:
Interesting. You make it sound like America INVENTED sweatshops, child labor, and slavery. That **** existed for centuries before America was even a gleam in disenfranchised British expatriates' eyes. If EVERY country had it, why did America become the GREATEST country?
Atheist founding fathers separated church & state.
AZGrizFan wrote:Their definition of "separated church and state" and YOUR definition of "separation of church and state" are LIGHT YEARS apart.D1B wrote:
Atheist founding fathers separated church & state.
Interesting. I never said America invented sweatshops, child labor, or slavery. Thanks for the input, though.AZGrizFan wrote:Interesting. You make it sound like America INVENTED sweatshops, child labor, and slavery. That **** existed for centuries before America was even a gleam in disenfranchised British expatriates' eyes. If EVERY country had it, why did America become the GREATEST country?Skjellyfetti wrote:
Yeah, the majority came willingly...
... sweatshop workers, for the most part, work willingly. Does that make it right? To get back to our greatness as a true free market nation do we need to do away with child labor laws, minimum wage, etc.? Are you ok with sweatshops as long as they're working willingly?
native wrote:The founders wrote a Constitution which guaranteed freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.
That's right - ESTABLISHMENT - not the caricature of the Constitution your liberal judges have created out of whole cloth.Skjellyfetti wrote:native wrote:The founders wrote a Constitution which guaranteed freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.
Sounds like both to me
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" = freedom from religion
"or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" = freedom of religion
WHAT?! How 'self-correcting' is it when the federal government has to step in to save everyone's ass?native wrote:I am not a lover of corporate power, but government screws up far more than corporations. At least corporate screw ups are eventually self-correcting.Grizalltheway wrote:
I'm talking about the notion that businesses (especially corporations) ALWAYS do what's best for the economy, and the government ALWAYS **** it up. A careful balance between the two is needed.
Because of our creeping socialism and undermining of our Constitution, Elections do not have the same corrective effect on failed politicians as markets have on failed corporations. All the conservatives manage to do during brief periods of sanity is stabilize socialist tendencies in place, not turn them back.
Your theoretical blathering is irrelevant, GTHW. "Spreading the wealth" is socialism. Period.
In some cases, the government stepping in clearly saved only the union's asses, not the tax paying public, investors, or America's asses.ngineer wrote:WHAT?! How 'self-correcting' is it when the federal government has to step in to save everyone's ass?native wrote:
I am not a lover of corporate power, but government screws up far more than corporations. At least corporate screw ups are eventually self-correcting.
Because of our creeping socialism and undermining of our Constitution, Elections do not have the same corrective effect on failed politicians as markets have on failed corporations. All the conservatives manage to do during brief periods of sanity is stabilize socialist tendencies in place, not turn them back.
Your theoretical blathering is irrelevant, GTHW. "Spreading the wealth" is socialism. Period.
Skjellyfetti wrote:Don't sweatshops give their workers the best chance available to them for improving their situations? Isn't that why they choose to work in those conditions?CID1990 wrote:Why did they come willingly? Because America gave them the best chances of improving their situations!
It's not hyperbole... sweatshops have better conditions than what the Chinese railroad workers experienced, imo.
That's my point. When America had sweatshops, child labor and slavery, SO DID EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. Yet you'd rather skewer America than acknowledge that point.Skjellyfetti wrote:Interesting. I never said America invented sweatshops, child labor, or slavery. Thanks for the input, though.AZGrizFan wrote:
Interesting. You make it sound like America INVENTED sweatshops, child labor, and slavery. That **** existed for centuries before America was even a gleam in disenfranchised British expatriates' eyes. If EVERY country had it, why did America become the GREATEST country?
Skelly deserves to live in a worker's paradise like Cuba or some third world shit hole like Bangladesh, where he can try to start his own revolution based on all that shallow self righteous bullshit.AZGrizFan wrote:That's my point. When America had sweatshops, child labor and slavery, SO DID EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. Yet you'd rather skewer America than acknowledge that point.Skjellyfetti wrote:
Interesting. I never said America invented sweatshops, child labor, or slavery. Thanks for the input, though.
ky's alright---he's just young. He comes across as an America hater, but he just has a lot to learn. Someday he'll get it.native wrote:Skelly deserves to live in a worker's paradise like Cuba or some third world shit hole like Bangladesh, where he can try to start his own revolution based on all that shallow self righteous bullshit.AZGrizFan wrote:
That's my point. When America had sweatshops, child labor and slavery, SO DID EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. Yet you'd rather skewer America than acknowledge that point.
Nope. Skelly is a genuine dufus. (edited.)AZGrizFan wrote:ky's alright---he's just young. He comes across as an America hater, but he just has a lot to learn. Someday he'll get it.native wrote:
Skelly deserves to live in a worker's paradise like Cuba or some third world **** hole like Bangladesh, where he can try to start his own revolution based on all that shallow self righteous bullshit.
Better hope not...I hear he's thinkin' of joining the military.native wrote:Nope. Skelly is a genuine America hater and a hopeless - and worthless - dufus.AZGrizFan wrote:
ky's alright---he's just young. He comes across as an America hater, but he just has a lot to learn. Someday he'll get it.
That's great news! Even a hopeless dufus can get squared away by the military! I hope he gets my drill instructor.AZGrizFan wrote:Better hope not...I hear he's thinkin' of joining the military.native wrote:
Nope. Skelly is a genuine America hater and a hopeless - and worthless - dufus.
Yeah. I can see him trying to debate politics with my drill instructor while he's pissing down his leg from doing situps/pushups/sharks for 3 hours.native wrote:I hope he gets my drill instructor.AZGrizFan wrote:
Better hope not...I hear he's thinkin' of joining the military.
"This is my weapon, this is my gun... This one's for shooting, this one's for fun..."AZGrizFan wrote:Yeah. I can see him trying to debate politics with my drill instructor while he's pissing down his leg from doing situps/pushups/sharks for 3 hours.native wrote:
I hope he gets my drill instructor.
And where in this thread do I skewer America, dumbass?AZGrizFan wrote: That's my point. When America had sweatshops, child labor and slavery, SO DID EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. Yet you'd rather skewer America than acknowledge that point.
