Tonight I'm Embarrassed at our Government...

[AZGrizFan]

The only thing I am embarrassed about is we are still the only Western country without universal healthcare.

Jon, we've played that record before. This isn't about "being just like everybody else". We simply canNOT afford this bill. Period. The end.

[Skjellyfetti]

Forget it TTL, the donkulites are all over in the corner, mutually stroking each other to climax over their great "victory".

AZ, would you have supported McCain's plan for health care reform that he outlined during the campaign?

[Chizzang]

Forget it TTL, the donkulites are all over in the corner, mutually stroking each other to climax over their great "victory".

Dude...
you sound like an angry 5 year old

First of all most of the liberals that I know have no faith in this bill (zero)
So "All the donkulites" are not over in the corner stoking themselves

Second, it's not the "end of the world" you drama queen - relax - exhale
and wash off your prom queen make-up

[houndawg]

Hopefully this bankrupts our country and most of the politicians that voted for are buried.

It's sad that you feel this way towards our great country, but not surprising. You need to grow up and realize that you don't always get your way in a free society.

[houndawg]

I'm just embarrassed that people don't realize that the ENTIRE GOP voted against this, along with 30-some-odd Dems. In other words, in a balanced Congress, this bill doesn't fly. That doesn't concern anyone on the left? That maybe, just maybe, you made the wrong choice here?

I don't claim to be a full-blown Conk, however, I really think the left shot themselves in the foot here. They took advantage of a terrible GWBush presidency, loaded up on left in the Congress and White House, and went to work. People already see through that. They didn't want this, and it's not helping anyone's cause to brag as if this was some sort of epic victory. You almost lost with an overwhelming majority, time to reconsider the balance and fairness of your bill.

Forget it TTL, the donkulites are all over in the corner, mutually stroking each other to climax over their great "victory".

Negative on the stroking off, your Zness.

That would only happen if the government comes to it's senses and adopts a single-payer system like the other first world countries.

[houndawg]

The only thing I am embarrassed about is we are still the only Western country without universal healthcare.

Jon, we've played that record before. This isn't about "being just like everybody else". We simply canNOT afford this bill. Period. The end.

Oh stop it with the fiscal responsibility act. We can't afford two quagmires halfway around the planet either, but we manage to keep shoveling money at them for going-on-a-decade now.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

What this government did is just really unbelievable. I'm not sure on either side on this issue but I am sure of this dawg ank skelly...you guys are not at all concerned that this was done against the wishes of the populace and since it goes along with what you have been advocating you are not only fine with it but gleeful over it.

This was done at a time when we are pretty short on cash and so deeply in debt that it ain't funny and the democrats did not do a good job of selling this before forcing the country to pay for it.

This was a huge mistake and I am pretty sure that going against the wishes of so many is gonna kill em'.

[dbackjon]

The only thing I am embarrassed about is we are still the only Western country without universal healthcare.

Jon, we've played that record before. This isn't about "being just like everybody else". We simply canNOT afford this bill. Period. The end.

And why can the other countries afford it?

[Skjellyfetti]

What this government did is just really unbelievable. I'm not sure on either side on this issue but I am sure of this dawg ank skelly...you guys are not at all concerned that this was done against the wishes of the populace and since it goes along with what you have been advocating you are not only fine with it but gleeful over it.

This was done at a time when we are pretty short on cash and so deeply in debt that it ain't funny and the democrats did not do a good job of selling this before forcing the country to pay for it.

This was a huge mistake and I am pretty sure that going against the wishes of so many is gonna kill em'.

IT WASN'T DONE AGAINST THE WISHES OF THE POPULACE.

The populace gets to express their will by voting.

Obama and Democrats have not hidden their will to reform health care.

The Democratic primaries and general election bored the shit out of me with the hours and hours of rambling all the candidates did about health care reform.

Healthcare reform was a cornerstone of Obama's campaign. The American public elected him. Obama and the Democrats enact the policies they ran on. It's not against the wishes of the populace.

[houndawg]

What this government did is just really unbelievable. I'm not sure on either side on this issue but I am sure of this dawg ank skelly...you guys are not at all concerned that this was done against the wishes of the populace and since it goes along with what you have been advocating you are not only fine with it but gleeful over it.

This was done at a time when we are pretty short on cash and so deeply in debt that it ain't funny and the democrats did not do a good job of selling this before forcing the country to pay for it.

This was a huge mistake and I am pretty sure that going against the wishes of so many is gonna kill em'.

You're wrong about me Ursus, I think a single-payer system is the only way my health doesn't take a back seat to insurance company profits.

I guess Nancy is a little tougher than the opposition thought.

[JoltinJoe]

Jon, we've played that record before. This isn't about "being just like everybody else". We simply canNOT afford this bill. Period. The end.

And why can the other countries afford it?

Don't know if they can or cannot afford it.

We owe over $12 trillion. If we want national health care, we need to start cutting elsewhere and getting our debt under control first.

This isn't about whether health care is desireable. It's that we cannot afford it right now.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

[houndawg]

And why can the other countries afford it?

Don't know if they can or cannot afford it.

We owe over $12 trillion. If we want national health care, we need to start cutting elsewhere and getting our debt under control first.

This isn't about whether health care is desireable. It's that we cannot afford it right now.

If we reduced our demand for mid-east oil we wouldn't need nearly as vast of a defense budget.

[kalm]

FACTBOX-Details of final U.S. healthcare billSun Mar 21, 2010 11:35pm EDTRelated NewsFactbox: Details of final healthcare bill

Thu, Mar 18 2010March 21 (Reuters) - The U.S. House of Representatives approved a sweeping $940 billion healthcare overhaul on Sunday in a two-step process that sends a Senate version of the bill to President Barack Obama for his signature and a package of changes sought by Democrats to the Senate bill.

Regulatory News | Bonds

The package of changes now go to the Senate for approval. The Senate is expected to take it up this week. If it passes unchanged it will then go to Obama for his signature. If any changes are made by the Senate, the package of changes will have to go back to the House for further action.

The legislation aims to extend coverage to 32 million uninsured people. Here are key provisions of the Senate-passed legislation and the proposed changes.

INSURANCE MARKET REFORM

The legislation would require substantial insurance market reforms that would bar insurers from excluding people for pre-existing medical conditions and prevent them from arbitrarily dropping policy holders.

Insurance exchanges would be created in which small businesses and individuals without employer-sponsored coverage would be able to shop for coverage. Plans offered on the exchange would have to meet minimum benefit requirements.

The proposed changes would allow dependent children to remain on their parents' health policies until age 26.

The Senate bill also requires insurers to spend at least 85 cents of every premium dollar on medical care in small group markets and 80 cents in large group markets. The proposed changes also would require Medicare Advantage insurers to spend at least 85 percent of revenues on medical care.

COVERAGE MANDATES, SUBSIDIES AND MEDICAID

Individuals would be required to obtain health insurance. Those who fail to obtain coverage would face fines of up to 2.5 percent of income by 2016.

Firms with more than 50 workers who do not offer medical coverage could face fines of $2,000 per full-time employee.

Federal subsidies would be provided to help people with incomes up to 400 percent of the poverty level purchase coverage on the exchange. Proposed changes would sweeten those subsidies for lower income people.

Medicaid, the government health insurance program for the poor, would be available to everyone with incomes up to 133 percent of the poverty level, which stood at $10,830 for an individual and $22,050, for a family of four. Many states have eligibility requirements below those levels.

The proposed changes would get rid of a special deal in the Senate bill that would have provided more money to Nebraska to cover costs of increased Medicaid coverage.

FINANCING

The final proposal makes some adjustments to the revenue measures in the Senate-passed bill.

The Senate bill included a 40 percent excise tax on high-cost health insurance plans. The proposed changes would delay implementation of the tax until 2018 instead of 2013. The tax would kick in on plans costing $10,200 for individuals and $27,500 for family coverage. A higher threshold is allowed for plans covering mostly women, older workers and retirees as well as those in high-risk professions.

The bill calls for raising the payroll taxes for Medicare, the government health insurance plan for the elderly and disabled, to 2.35 percent from the current 1.45 percent for individuals earning $200,000 or more and for couples earning $250,000 or more. The proposed changes would apply the tax at a rate of 3.8 percent to some investment income for those high-income groups.

The bill imposes fees on medical device manufacturers, insurance providers and brand-name pharmaceuticals. The proposed changes would delay implementation of those fees.

It also puts a 10 percent tax on indoor tanning services that use ultraviolet lamps goes into effect on July 1.

MEDICARE

The legislation would freeze payments to insurers that provide coverage to Medicare patients in 2011 and begin reducing the subsidy in 2012.

It would also gradually close the gap in drug coverage for Medicare beneficiaries by 2020. Those who enter the coverage gap, the so-called doughnut hole, in 2010 will get a $250 rebate. In 2011 they would get a 50 percent discount on brand-name drugs. (Reporting by Donna Smith; Editing by Deborah Charles)

My business has less than 50 employees and should remain that way so perhaps we've dodged the bullet, but for those small businesses hovering around 50 people, this isn't going to help job growth.

[JoltinJoe]

Don't know if they can or cannot afford it.

We owe over $12 trillion. If we want national health care, we need to start cutting elsewhere and getting our debt under control first.

This isn't about whether health care is desireable. It's that we cannot afford it right now.

If we reduced our demand for mid-east oil we wouldn't need nearly as vast of a defense budget.

So then you agree that we need to cut spending elsewhere in the budget??

[Skjellyfetti]

Don't know if they can or cannot afford it.

We owe over $12 trillion. If we want national health care, we need to start cutting elsewhere and getting our debt under control first.

This isn't about whether health care is desireable. It's that we cannot afford it right now.

Yup. And health care is a good start. Will reduce deficit by 1.2 trillion over the next 20 years according to the CBO.

I haven't heard a good reason to ignore or dismiss CBO estimates... so, if you have one... I'm all ears.

[JoltinJoe]

Don't know if they can or cannot afford it.

We owe over $12 trillion. If we want national health care, we need to start cutting elsewhere and getting our debt under control first.

This isn't about whether health care is desireable. It's that we cannot afford it right now.

Yup. And health care is a good start. Will reduce deficit by 1.2 trillion over the next 20 years according to the CBO.

I haven't heard a good reason to ignore or dismiss CBO estimates... so, if you have one... I'm all ears.

Whether the CBO estimates prove accurate, who knows. But if you want to call this an "investment,' we still do not have the money right now to make this investment.

Frankly, this is like investing on margin because your broker tells you that a stock is going to return 100% of your investment over a specified time period.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

What this government did is just really unbelievable. I'm not sure on either side on this issue but I am sure of this dawg ank skelly...you guys are not at all concerned that this was done against the wishes of the populace and since it goes along with what you have been advocating you are not only fine with it but gleeful over it.

This was done at a time when we are pretty short on cash and so deeply in debt that it ain't funny and the democrats did not do a good job of selling this before forcing the country to pay for it.

This was a huge mistake and I am pretty sure that going against the wishes of so many is gonna kill em'.

IT WASN'T DONE AGAINST THE WISHES OF THE POPULACE.

The populace gets to express their will by voting.

Obama and Democrats have not hidden their will to reform health care.

The Democratic primaries and general election bored the shit out of me with the hours and hours of rambling all the candidates did about health care reform.

Healthcare reform was a cornerstone of Obama's campaign. The American public elected him. Obama and the Democrats enact the policies they ran on. It's not against the wishes of the populace.

We were also gonna be out of Iraq right? That was gonna be where some of the money came from if I remember correctly. We also weren't voting for Obama thinking that there was gonna be another huge bail out right after Bush's. I think the mood in the country has changed pretty good in the last 16 months.

I really think they fucked themselves but hey, who knows.

[houndawg]

If we reduced our demand for mid-east oil we wouldn't need nearly as vast of a defense budget.

So then you agree that we need to cut spending elsewhere in the budget??

I don't think it matters anymore. We need to make sure that we owe the Chinese so much money that they can't afford to cut us loose economically.

[JoltinJoe]

So then you agree that we need to cut spending elsewhere in the budget??

I don't think it matters anymore. We need to make sure that we owe the Chinese so much money that they can't afford to cut us loose economically.

The Chinese have cut us off.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE61G33P20100217

[Skjellyfetti]

Whether the CBO estimates prove accurate, who knows. But if you want to call this an "investment,' we still do not have the money right now to make this investment.

Frankly, this is like investing on margin because your broker tells you that a stock is going to return 100% of your investment over a specified time period.

Even if the CBO estimates are a good bit off... let's say 50% off. That's still $600 billion in savings. Sounds good to me.

[Baldy]

You're wrong about me Ursus, I think a single-payer system is the only way my health doesn't take a back seat to insurance company profits.

You're so naive, it's cute.

I mentioned this yesterday, but you refused to answer, so I'll try it again.

Are so hopeless to actually believe that your health won't take a back seat to a government mandated cost/benefit analysis?

[∞∞∞]

well then, that totally sucked. we'll see what happens from here...

[dbackjon]

You're wrong about me Ursus, I think a single-payer system is the only way my health doesn't take a back seat to insurance company profits.

You're so naive, it's cute.

I mentioned this yesterday, but you refused to answer, so I'll try it again.

Are so hopeless to actually believe that your health won't take a back seat to a government mandated cost/benefit analysis?

Our health ALREADY takes a backseat to slimy insurance company profit loss analysis.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Hopefully this bankrupts our country and most of the politicians that voted for are buried.

It's sad that you feel this way towards our great country, but not surprising. You need to grow up and realize that you don't always get your way in a free society.

This just proves that the majority dont get their way in a free society.

[Baldy]

Whether the CBO estimates prove accurate, who knows. But if you want to call this an "investment,' we still do not have the money right now to make this investment.

Frankly, this is like investing on margin because your broker tells you that a stock is going to return 100% of your investment over a specified time period.

Even if the CBO estimates are a good bit off... let's say 50% off. That's still $600 billion in savings. Sounds good to me.

Only in your 'progressive utopia'.

Do a little research into the track record of health care cost estimates over the past 50 years and get back to me. Here's a little example:

In 1965, the House Ways and Means Committee did a study to estimate what the cost of Medicare Part A would be in 1990. Their figure was $9 Billion. The actual cost in 1990 was $67 Billion.

In 1967, the same House Ways and Means Committee did another study to estimate what the cost of the entire Medicare System would be in 1990. Their estimate was $12 Billion. The actual cost came out to be $110 Billion.

In conclusion, we're fvcked.

Thank you Obama voters. Why do you hate America so????