Government Lifers

[JoltinJoe]

You're right. The ordinance has nothing to do with public health or safety. It is simply one of those quality of life ordinances. The town doesn't want the appearance of its streets marred by people parking vehicles on lawns or on other surfaces in front of structures other than driveways.

A request to remove the car would have sufficed, with enforcement to follow if the request was ignored. A fine which represents several days of his gross receipts, without prior warning, is piggish (and probably the influence of some corrupt factor).

FWIW, though, the appearance of the downtown area was actually enhanced by this classic car in front of the structure, but then again, if you give one exception based on your subjective impression, you'll find others will park old jalopies and demand an exception too.

Interesting thread. How much of the political corruption argument is hyperbole? If it's really that bad back east than I find far less blame for the hatred of government. What D1B stated about the midwest is certainly true in my neck of the woods. That fine wouldn't have happened without many prior warnings and would be easily overturned with a couple of phone calls or letters.

Unfortunately D1B is right about the need to grease the right people in NJ.

It's also why Chris Christie scares the living shit out of many politicians in NJ.

[AZGrizFan]

This sounds alot like the crusty old veteran that thought he should be allowed to have a flagpole at his condo just because he is a vet. No-one is above the law. Break the law and there are consequences. It is the responsibility of the individual to know the law.

God.

No WONDER you're a government employee.

[89Hen]

This sounds alot like the crusty old veteran that thought he should be allowed to have a flagpole at his condo just because he is a vet. No-one is above the law. Break the law and there are consequences. It is the responsibility of the individual to know the law.

God.

No WONDER you're a government employee.

And a Mensa candidate.

[OSBF]

This sounds alot like the crusty old veteran that thought he should be allowed to have a flagpole at his condo just because he is a vet. No-one is above the law. Break the law and there are consequences. It is the responsibility of the individual to know the law.

God.

No WONDER you're a government employee.

and disrepect for the rule of law

no wonder your're a conservative

[Col Hogan]

God.

No WONDER you're a government employee.

and disrepect for the rule of law

no wonder your're a conservative

What a punk bureaucrat...

NO ONE...no one has advocated DISRESPECTING the law...

joe's friend got no warning...simply a very expensive fine...from a fellow PUNK BUREAUCRAT...

Tell him it's a violation...give him a warning...and if he doen't move it...THEN fine him...

[andy7171]

God.

No WONDER you're a government employee.

And a Mensa candidate.

And a former child actor.

[HI54UNI]

As a former municipal official myself I can guarantee that would have not happened in my community under my watch. Was it the restaurant owner's responsibility to know the law? Yes, but that is a false argument. How many other laws are on the books that we all break every day because we don't know about them. For this type of violation he should have received a letter and/or visit with a notice to correct the problem within 3-5 days. If he didn't remove it that's when he should have been fined.

This kind of shit is why people hate the government.

[Appaholic]

This regulation has little to do with owning a restaurant or business. It is not a hazardous violation, nor a common sense one, nor one that would require you hire somebody who might apply for a permit for you. It is NOT the job of a business owner to know a regulation like this. It is the job of the state or county employees to know it. A visit by the county or a letter telling them to remove it or face penalty is 100% the correct way to handle this.

You're right. The ordinance has nothing to do with public health or safety. It is simply one of those quality of life ordinances. The town doesn't want the appearance of its streets marred by people parking vehicles on lawns or on other surfaces in front of structures other than driveways.

A request to remove the car would have sufficed, with enforcement to follow if the request was ignored. A fine which represents several days of his gross receipts, without prior warning, is piggish (and probably the influence of some corrupt factor).

FWIW, though, the appearance of the downtown area was actually enhanced by this classic car in front of the structure, but then again, if you give one exception based on your subjective impression, you'll find others will park old jalopies and demand an exception too.

The fine was excessive & uncalled for, but doesn't absolve the business owner from knowing the local ordinances. Part of being a business owner (or property owner) is knowing the local zoning ordinances (what you can & cannot do on your property). If you don't agree with the ordinances, then work to change them through the process - it's not as if this township was created after the ordinance...someone bitched about obnoxious signs & junked cars & this ordinance is the result. However, there is a right way & wrong way to conduct business in the private (& public) sector & this is prime example of a blind bureacrat on a power trip...I'd pay the fine, then pay some local thugs to give the bureacrat a beatdown in front of his kids.

[Appaholic]

As a former municipal official myself I can guarantee that would have not happened in my community under my watch. Was it the restaurant owner's responsibility to know the law? Yes, but that is a false argument. How many other laws are on the books that we all break every day because we don't know about them. For this type of violation he should have received a letter and/or visit with a notice to correct the problem within 3-5 days. If he didn't remove it that's when he should have been fined.

This kind of shit is why people hate the government.

Nailed it!

[travelinman67]

I am sure a letter asking him to remove the car would have corrected the problem.

That is the issue, not that he violated the law or that he knew or didn't know. Somethings require citations, some things require communication. If communication doesn't work, issue the citation.

Spot on.

I receive about one letter per year from Code Enforecement for building code/zoning violations. I correct it, advise them, and the matter is dropped. Most of the violations are for "benign" offenses, "technical" violations for signage absent or misplaced, debris/objects not cleaned up or removed from public view, etc..., as was this gentleman's. Even in CA, I've found Code Enforcement to be communicative and willing to work with owners to resolve issues before use of punitive action. Most Code Enforcement field employees are zealous, but official policy is to communicate and resolve, not abuse to generate revenue or politically target "outsiders". Can't say the reason, but I suspect they understand the people most effected by their actions are builders/developers/businessmen/investors who are politically connected and can make their lives hell if they step on the wrong toes.
The biggest scam in CA are the ADA requirements, which the govt. allows citizens to privately sue "violators" for non-compliance. Door jamb offsets, ramp angles and locations, door positions and sizes, there are an army of litiguous predators who travel around visiting "public" businesses/buildings carrying cameras and accompanied by witnesses to document violations and generate lawsuits. Few public building owners have been untouched by this litigation.

Wildcats and Clenz are still too young to have practically experienced, "Live by the book, die by the book". These enforcement Nazi actions in the long-term will have a detrimental impact on code/regulatory compliance.

Hell, even D1B gets this...'course, he understands the need for "balance".

[clenz]

This regulation has little to do with owning a restaurant or business. It is not a hazardous violation, nor a common sense one, nor one that would require you hire somebody who might apply for a permit for you. It is NOT the job of a business owner to know a regulation like this. It is the job of the state or county employees to know it. A visit by the county or a letter telling them to remove it or face penalty is 100% the correct way to handle this.

You're right. The ordinance has nothing to do with public health or safety. It is simply one of those quality of life ordinances. The town doesn't want the appearance of its streets marred by people parking vehicles on lawns or on other surfaces in front of structures other than driveways.

A request to remove the car would have sufficed, with enforcement to follow if the request was ignored. A fine which represents several days of his gross receipts, without prior warning, is piggish (and probably the influence of some corrupt factor).

FWIW, though, the appearance of the downtown area was actually enhanced by this classic car in front of the structure, but then again, if you give one exception based on your subjective impression, you'll find others will park old jalopies and demand an exception too.

I'm not saying I disagree with any of this. Nor am I saying I agree with the harshness of the ticket, or the ticket in general.

What I am saying is that ignorance of a law/ordinance/rule/code/etc... is not an excuse. I received a ticket for leaving my garbage can by the curb too long after the time it was picked up. I had no idea of that rule, it was the first time I put a garbage can out by the house we live in now. I called and asked why I got the ticket and since I just moved in if they could do something about it. I was told no, because "It is your responsibility to know all rules which may impact your place of residence."

I agree, a phone call or warning, should have come first and should have sufficed. However, ign....well I won't say it again but you know

[native]

I am sure a letter asking him to remove the car would have corrected the problem.

That is the issue, not that he violated the law or that he knew or didn't know. Somethings require citations, some things require communication. If communication doesn't work, issue the citation.

....Long story short, once my annual permit came in the mail, I photocopied it and sent a letter to the Monona Police Department and asked them to retract the ticket and fine. Bout 3 weeks later I got a nice, real signed letter from a lady in the Clerk's office telling me my ticket and fine have been reversed. This was even after I missed the fine due date waiting for my permit. ...

That's basically the way it works in most California and Texas counties, too. Despite pension problems, San Diego is relatively well administered.

[bandl]

Went to a house warming party in NJ back in August. Park Ridge, NJ (danefan knows the area). They have a 'strict' 'do not park your vehicle on the streets after 2AM' law in effect for the whole town. Since I'm not a resident there, I simply forgot about this law and had parked my car in the street for the night. The next morning I found a note on the car from officer so and so. It said, in more or less words, "Since you are from out of town (I have VA tags) I will not have your car towed this evening. But please remember not to park your car on the street in the future." No fine, no ticket. Interesting, considering that the entire east coast is marred by corruption.

[89Hen]

God.

No WONDER you're a government employee.

and disrepect for the rule of law

no wonder your're a conservative

You're digging yourself quite the hole here OB.

[89Hen]

The fine was excessive & uncalled for, but doesn't absolve the business owner from knowing the local ordinances. Part of being a business owner (or property owner) is knowing the local zoning ordinances (what you can & cannot do on your property).

Yes and no. It doesnt' absolve him, but I don't think anyone here says he should have been allowed to keep the car there if it was against the law.

[andy7171]

and disrepect for the rule of law

no wonder your're a conservative

You're digging yourself quite the hole here OB.

What else is new?

[89Hen]

I received a ticket...

Ahhh, the picture becomes clear as to why clenz is being a hardass on this one.

[kalm]

and disrepect for the rule of law

no wonder your're a conservative

You're digging yourself quite the hole here OB.

Nanny State
Do-gooders
Over regulation

There are too many laws. The market should dictate whether or not he should be allowed to keep his car there. If it turns people off they will frequent restaurants without the cadillac out front.

OSBF is right. Conservatives own that statement.

[CitadelGrad]

I am sure a letter asking him to remove the car would have corrected the problem.

That is the issue, not that he violated the law or that he knew or didn't know. Somethings require citations, some things require communication. If communication doesn't work, issue the citation.

I think you've missed the point entirely. Don't you know that the first and only priority of government is generation of revenue. Good governance and service to the people??????

[Appaholic]

The fine was excessive & uncalled for, but doesn't absolve the business owner from knowing the local ordinances. Part of being a business owner (or property owner) is knowing the local zoning ordinances (what you can & cannot do on your property).

Yes and no. It doesnt' absolve him, but I don't think anyone here says he should have been allowed to keep the car there if it was against the law.

Agree. I was speaking more towards some people stating earlier the business owner shouldn't have to worry about knowing the local ordinances which is false....that's a part of being a business (& property) owner. If you choose to ignore that responsibility of ownership, then you leave yourself open to dealing with dikheads like the guy who handed out the $10k ticket....

[89Hen]

Agree. I was speaking more towards some people stating earlier the business owner shouldn't have to worry about knowing the local ordinances which is false....that's a part of being a business (& property) owner.

I agree in general, but (and maybe I'm nitpicking) I don't think anyone really has to worry themselves about an ordinance like that. Again, it's not a safety issue, a health issue, a permitting issue or even a common sense issue. I'd be willing to bet you that most business and property owners don't know all of the ordinances in their jurisdiction. Some of them are pretty peculiar. That's why people get warnings all the time.

[clenz]

I received a ticket...

Ahhh, the picture becomes clear as to why clenz is being a hardass on this one.

I'm being a hard ass on this one because I believe in obeying the law.

Which is why I will be a cop sooner rather than later

[HI54UNI]

Does Michelle Obama need a $10,000 fine for being ignorant of the law?

FIRST LADY CAMPAIGNS INSIDE POLLING PLACE
Thu Oct 14 2010 16:19:25 ET

First lady Michelle Obama appears to have violated Illinois law -- when she engaged in political discussion at a polling place!

A top Ilinois State Board of Elections official tells the DRUDGE REPORT how Mrs. Obama may have simply been ignorant of the law and thus violated it unintentionally.

http://drudgereport.com/flash2.htm

[HI54UNI]

You're right. The ordinance has nothing to do with public health or safety. It is simply one of those quality of life ordinances. The town doesn't want the appearance of its streets marred by people parking vehicles on lawns or on other surfaces in front of structures other than driveways.

A request to remove the car would have sufficed, with enforcement to follow if the request was ignored. A fine which represents several days of his gross receipts, without prior warning, is piggish (and probably the influence of some corrupt factor).

FWIW, though, the appearance of the downtown area was actually enhanced by this classic car in front of the structure, but then again, if you give one exception based on your subjective impression, you'll find others will park old jalopies and demand an exception too.

I'm not saying I disagree with any of this. Nor am I saying I agree with the harshness of the ticket, or the ticket in general.

What I am saying is that ignorance of a law/ordinance/rule/code/etc... is not an excuse. I received a ticket for leaving my garbage can by the curb too long after the time it was picked up. I had no idea of that rule, it was the first time I put a garbage can out by the house we live in now. I called and asked why I got the ticket and since I just moved in if they could do something about it. I was told no, because "It is your responsibility to know all rules which may impact your place of residence."

I agree, a phone call or warning, should have come first and should have sufficed. However, ign....well I won't say it again but you know

Let me guess, Cedar Falls cops right? Talk about government bureaucrats with no people skills....

[clenz]

I'm not saying I disagree with any of this. Nor am I saying I agree with the harshness of the ticket, or the ticket in general.

What I am saying is that ignorance of a law/ordinance/rule/code/etc... is not an excuse. I received a ticket for leaving my garbage can by the curb too long after the time it was picked up. I had no idea of that rule, it was the first time I put a garbage can out by the house we live in now. I called and asked why I got the ticket and since I just moved in if they could do something about it. I was told no, because "It is your responsibility to know all rules which may impact your place of residence."

I agree, a phone call or warning, should have come first and should have sufficed. However, ign....well I won't say it again but you know

Let me guess, Cedar Falls cops right? Talk about government bureaucrats with no people skills....

Nope.

The stupid old fuckers (70 somethings) the city of CF highers to drive around in brand new Ford Focus's all day long and "enforce" stupid ass policies like that one.