It's Real: Obama Admin To Scrap Mandatory K-12 Testing

[HI54UNI]

All kinds of things in things in this thread to comment on. Some thoughts:

I wish the feds would get out of education. Set some minimum standards so states can't completely walk away. Other than that stay the hell out of it.

We do a disservice to many kids by telling them that they need to go to a 4 year college. There are many kids that have no business going to a four year college. We do a poor job of helping those kids for life post-high school. Does some kid that is going to work a factory floor really need to take a 2nd language in high school? Does he really need to take a creative writing class? We should be focusing on teaching these kids a trade. Our school has partnered with several local manufacturers. The companies have provided CNC lathes and other manufacturing equipment so we can teach these kids how to use them in our voc tech classes. We could teach them more but have to waste time on Spanish or French. A lot of these kids graduate and have a job the next day instead of wasting time and money on college that they won't use.

The goal of NCLB is admirable. It is not acceptable that kids graduate without being able to read. Some kids with serious disabilities may never get it and schools should not have those kids count against them for the goals required by NCLB. However I've seen data that says 95% of kids should be able to read at least at a basic level. Yet we have schools in this coutnry advancing kids to the next grade where 20+% can't read at their grade level. That is not acceptable. That is the fault of the teachers, principals, supts. and school boards. NCLB tries to implment some accountability.

Teachers should not be solely evaluated on test scores. However test scores, if used properly, can show issues with teachers. If you test kids every year you should see a general increase in the cumulative scores. There are a couple of case studies that show the general advancement of a class every year but in 5th grade the kids flat-lined and starting in 6th grade the kids started going up again. This happened with groups of kids several years in a row. The data suggested that a teacher was a problem. A change was made and the flat-lining stopped.

A lot of NCLB is the race to be the "last one standing". As schools have failed to reach the mandatory goals they get put on the "school in need of assistance list'. Eventually every school in America will be on the list because the 100% goal in unrealistic. The number of schools going on this list is part of the reason they are waiving the testing. But unless the law is repealed the schools on the list won't be able to get off the list and new ones won't go on.

Teachers need more training. It's been proven that a good teacher can overcome a shitty homelife, poverty, etc.

[Cap'n Cat]

Kids need to show up ready and able to learn. Full belly, weren't beat up by their alcoholic dad or fvcked by mom's methhead boyfriend.

[HI54UNI]

Kids need to show up ready and able to learn. Full belly, weren't beat up by their alcoholic dad or fvcked by mom's methhead boyfriend.

True. That's why we offer breakfast in the morning to kids. We also started a program last year where we have teachers, aides, or even the principal meet some of the more troubled kids every morning when they get to school. The kids get a chance to vent if they had a bad night, the teacher talks to them and actually gives a shit unlike their parents, etc. Our discipline problems with those kids went way down.

[BigSkyBears]

All kinds of things in things in this thread to comment on. Some thoughts:

I wish the feds would get out of education. Set some minimum standards so states can't completely walk away. Other than that stay the hell out of it.

We do a disservice to many kids by telling them that they need to go to a 4 year college. There are many kids that have no business going to a four year college. We do a poor job of helping those kids for life post-high school. Does some kid that is going to work a factory floor really need to take a 2nd language in high school? Does he really need to take a creative writing class? We should be focusing on teaching these kids a trade. Our school has partnered with several local manufacturers. The companies have provided CNC lathes and other manufacturing equipment so we can teach these kids how to use them in our voc tech classes. We could teach them more but have to waste time on Spanish or French. A lot of these kids graduate and have a job the next day instead of wasting time and money on college that they won't use.

The goal of NCLB is admirable. It is not acceptable that kids graduate without being able to read. Some kids with serious disabilities may never get it and schools should not have those kids count against them for the goals required by NCLB. However I've seen data that says 95% of kids should be able to read at least at a basic level. Yet we have schools in this coutnry advancing kids to the next grade where 20+% can't read at their grade level. That is not acceptable. That is the fault of the teachers, principals, supts. and school boards. NCLB tries to implment some accountability.

Teachers should not be solely evaluated on test scores. However test scores, if used properly, can show issues with teachers. If you test kids every year you should see a general increase in the cumulative scores. There are a couple of case studies that show the general advancement of a class every year but in 5th grade the kids flat-lined and starting in 6th grade the kids started going up again. This happened with groups of kids several years in a row. The data suggested that a teacher was a problem. A change was made and the flat-lining stopped.

A lot of NCLB is the race to be the "last one standing". As schools have failed to reach the mandatory goals they get put on the "school in need of assistance list'. Eventually every school in America will be on the list because the 100% goal in unrealistic. The number of schools going on this list is part of the reason they are waiving the testing. But unless the law is repealed the schools on the list won't be able to get off the list and new ones won't go on.

Teachers need more training. It's been proven that a good teacher can overcome a shitty homelife, poverty, etc.

I agree with most of what you say. You must be a fellow teacher! I agree with you especially on teacher training. There needs to be more money spent on teacher professional development, not so much on standardized testing.

[HI54UNI]

All kinds of things in things in this thread to comment on. Some thoughts:

I wish the feds would get out of education. Set some minimum standards so states can't completely walk away. Other than that stay the hell out of it.

We do a disservice to many kids by telling them that they need to go to a 4 year college. There are many kids that have no business going to a four year college. We do a poor job of helping those kids for life post-high school. Does some kid that is going to work a factory floor really need to take a 2nd language in high school? Does he really need to take a creative writing class? We should be focusing on teaching these kids a trade. Our school has partnered with several local manufacturers. The companies have provided CNC lathes and other manufacturing equipment so we can teach these kids how to use them in our voc tech classes. We could teach them more but have to waste time on Spanish or French. A lot of these kids graduate and have a job the next day instead of wasting time and money on college that they won't use.

The goal of NCLB is admirable. It is not acceptable that kids graduate without being able to read. Some kids with serious disabilities may never get it and schools should not have those kids count against them for the goals required by NCLB. However I've seen data that says 95% of kids should be able to read at least at a basic level. Yet we have schools in this coutnry advancing kids to the next grade where 20+% can't read at their grade level. That is not acceptable. That is the fault of the teachers, principals, supts. and school boards. NCLB tries to implment some accountability.

Teachers should not be solely evaluated on test scores. However test scores, if used properly, can show issues with teachers. If you test kids every year you should see a general increase in the cumulative scores. There are a couple of case studies that show the general advancement of a class every year but in 5th grade the kids flat-lined and starting in 6th grade the kids started going up again. This happened with groups of kids several years in a row. The data suggested that a teacher was a problem. A change was made and the flat-lining stopped.

A lot of NCLB is the race to be the "last one standing". As schools have failed to reach the mandatory goals they get put on the "school in need of assistance list'. Eventually every school in America will be on the list because the 100% goal in unrealistic. The number of schools going on this list is part of the reason they are waiving the testing. But unless the law is repealed the schools on the list won't be able to get off the list and new ones won't go on.

Teachers need more training. It's been proven that a good teacher can overcome a shitty homelife, poverty, etc.

I agree with most of what you say. You must be a fellow teacher! I agree with you especially on teacher training. There needs to be more money spent on teacher professional development, not so much on standardized testing.

Nope. Just a school board member that wants the best education for his kids (and the other kids in the district too).

[kalm]

NCLB is just a disaster just needs to be nixed altogether. Evaluating schools based on test scores is the least of its problems. Instead of having an education system where kids can learn at their own place and find their place in the world, we have the mindset that every kid belongs in college and every kid can be a f%^&ing brain surgeon. Some things just aren't possible no matter what the touchy-feely "reality-is-a-social-construct" crowd says.

Post of the thread.

Yup. We have a large population of kids who lack the parental support, brains, or funding to go onto higher education. Start training this group at age 12 to be laborers in a Chinese factory and we'll be ahead of the game.

[Cap'n Cat]

Kids need to show up ready and able to learn. Full belly, weren't beat up by their alcoholic dad or fvcked by mom's methhead boyfriend.

True. That's why we offer breakfast in the morning to kids. We also started a program last year where we have teachers, aides, or even the principal meet some of the more troubled kids every morning when they get to school. The kids get a chance to vent if they had a bad night, the teacher talks to them and actually gives a shit unlike their parents, etc. Our discipline problems with those kids went way down.

If only every district had that.

It ain't teachers. It's kids and their families.