Texas Town runs out of water

[travelinman67]

And how do you explain the cooler/wetter patterns on other parts of the globe, Al?

That is actually predicted by the climate change models - some areas will get cooler and wetter. Overall, instability and sharp swings world wide

You sure it wasn't the Tea Party's fault?

[∞∞∞]

TM, I'll read your links when I have more time as they seem quite lengthy (working on a project right now), and I get that one thing like this drought doesn't mean a direct link to climate change, but my point is that the EPA study in 1993 was trying to help Texas prepare for an increasing amount of droughts that they believed would start around ~2013...and they didn't care to listen because of ignorace. Bluehen86 made the point that we can argue why it's happening but you really can't say it isn't happening. We're seeing it everywhere...from Iceland where the Puffins have stopped breeding because their food source is disappearing due to shrinking glaciers, to the Maldive Islands where its sinking at their fastest rate ever, to the decrease of available fresh water in Africa, Asia, and the Southwest due to rising temperatures (and water mismanagement), and etc. All this is happening in a short period of time as well.

My friend, the next wars on Earth will be fought not for gold or oil or anything like that...it'll be for water. Personally I think the US will be in an ok position since we and Canada are the largest exporters of virtual water (which will give us a lot of leverage against other nations since water is the necessity of life, agriculture, and industrial processes), but other nations aren't going to be as lucky. We shouldn't shrug off climate change as some pseudo-science (and we haven't been in some regards which is good). It's something we can prepare for now rather cheaply compared to ignoring it and letting my generation or my children's generation pay a lot for it in the future...kinda like the debt.

ps. I don't like Al Gore.

edit: changed it to BlueHen86. My bad.

[BlueHen86]

TM, I'll read your links when I have more time as they seem quite lengthy (working on a project right now), and I get that one thing like this drought doesn't mean a direct link to climate change, but my point is that the EPA study in 1993 was trying to help Texas prepare for an increasing amount of droughts that they believed would start around ~2013...and they didn't care to listen because of ignorace. 93' made the point that we can argue why it's happening but you really can't say it isn't happening. We're seeing it everywhere...from Iceland where the Puffins have stopped breeding because their food source is disappearing due to shrinking glaciers, to the Maldive Islands where its sinking at their fastest rate ever, to the decrease of available fresh water in Africa, Asia, and the Southwest due to rising temperatures (and water mismanagement), and etc. All this is happening in a short period of time as well.

My friend, the next wars on Earth will be fought not for gold or oil or anything like that...it'll be for water. Personally I think the US will be in an ok position since we and Canada are the largest exporters of virtual water (which will give us a lot of leverage against other nations since water is the necessity of life, agriculture, and industrial processes), but other nations aren't going to be as lucky. We shouldn't shrug off climate change as some pseudo-science (and we haven't been in some regards which is good). It's something we can prepare for now rather cheaply compared to ignoring it and letting my generation or my children's generation pay a lot for it in the future...kinda like the debt.

ps. I don't like Al Gore.

[travelinman67]

TM, I'll read your links when I have more time as they seem quite lengthy (working on a project right now), and I get that one thing like this drought doesn't mean a direct link to climate change, but my point is that the EPA study in 1993 was trying to help Texas prepare for an increasing amount of droughts that they believed would start around ~2013...and they didn't care to listen because of ignorace. Bluehen86 made the point that we can argue why it's happening but you really can't say it isn't happening. We're seeing it everywhere...from Iceland where the Puffins have stopped breeding because their food source is disappearing due to shrinking glaciers, to the Maldive Islands where its sinking at their fastest rate ever, to the decrease of available fresh water in Africa, Asia, and the Southwest due to rising temperatures (and water mismanagement), and etc. All this is happening in a short period of time as well.

My friend, the next wars on Earth will be fought not for gold or oil or anything like that...it'll be for water. Personally I think the US will be in an ok position since we and Canada are the largest exporters of virtual water (which will give us a lot of leverage against other nations since water is the necessity of life, agriculture, and industrial processes), but other nations aren't going to be as lucky. We shouldn't shrug off climate change as some pseudo-science (and we haven't been in some regards which is good). It's something we can prepare for now rather cheaply compared to ignoring it and letting my generation or my children's generation pay a lot for it in the future...kinda like the debt.

ps. I don't like Al Gore.

edit: changed it to BlueHen86. My bad.

Just stop and ask yourself...

...what "scientific" research had the EPA conducted by 1993 which allowed them to "scientifically predict" a drought in Texas 20 years later?

I spent a summer in Odessa, and have covered most of the state during my travels. I could have told you twenty years ago there'd be a drought somewhere in Texas around 2013, and I didn't need to rely on any research.

P.S...there'll be tornadoes, dust storms, locust and heavy rains resulting in flash floods within the next 5 years.

[JohnStOnge]

There was an old EPA study in the early 90s warning Texas that in 20-30 years, they'll be facing increasing droughts and water shortages because of climate change, and that these things can be magnified by natural events. It told Texas to start taking specific steps to create better water resource management so that when it starts happening, they'll be better prepared. But in grand ol' Texas style, their politicians shrugged off the study as nonsense (this was at a time where Texas was the biggest CO2 producer in the United States...I think they still are). These severe droughts for Texas (and surrounding states) are just going to increase in numbers and magnitude as sea levels rise around the world and climate patterns begin to shift. But hey, if you wanna think the EPA isn't trying to help, well...

The thing you'd have to do is somehow find all the recommendations and predictions EPA has made to all the States and see how often they have turned out to be correct. If anything happens there's a pretty good chance you'll find some document somewhere where somebody predicted it would happen because people are predicting things will happen all the time. I think that most of the time, when something goes wrong, somebody's going to be able to find some documented instance of some person or institution saying it was going to go wrong that way.

[∞∞∞]

The EPA didn't predict "a" drought, it predicted an increasing amount of changes to Texas and a decreasing amount of water available over the next 5 decades up to 2040 I believe, and steps to curb and manage the water supplies based on what they think will happen.

I linked the study on the previous page...

[∞∞∞]

The thing you'd have to do is somehow find all the recommendations and predictions EPA has made to all the States and see how often they have turned out to be correct. If anything happens there's a pretty good chance you'll find some document somewhere where somebody predicted it would happen because people are predicting things will happen all the time. I think that most of the time, when something goes wrong, somebody's going to be able to find some documented instance of some person or institution saying it was going to go wrong that way.

I really don't get you JSO...your opinion always seems to be all over the place. One day you say that things like God can't be proven by science, another day you say that if something hasn't been proven beyond doubt by science then it's not true (cigarettes/cancer), another day you say that science has proven (with much doubts) that genetic differences in the learning abilities between races exist...and now the response you just wrote. I really can't gauge your opinion on what you think science is.

[BlueHen86]

The thing you'd have to do is somehow find all the recommendations and predictions EPA has made to all the States and see how often they have turned out to be correct. If anything happens there's a pretty good chance you'll find some document somewhere where somebody predicted it would happen because people are predicting things will happen all the time. I think that most of the time, when something goes wrong, somebody's going to be able to find some documented instance of some person or institution saying it was going to go wrong that way.

I really don't get you JSO...your opinion always seems to be all over the place. One day you say that things like God can't be proven by science, another day you say that if something hasn't been proven beyond doubt by science then it's not true (cigarettes/cancer), another day you say that science has proven (with much doubts) that genetic differences in the learning abilities between races exist...and now the response you just wrote. I really can't gauge your opinion on what you think science is.

Now you did it.

Cue JSO with a bunch of links that nobody will read.

[JohnStOnge]

I really don't get you JSO...your opinion always seems to be all over the place. One day you say that things like God can't be proven by science, another day you say that if something hasn't been proven beyond doubt by science then it's not true (cigarettes/cancer), another day you say that science has proven (with much doubts) that genetic differences in the learning abilities between races exist...and now the response you just wrote. I really can't gauge your opinion on what you think science is.

I think you may have misinterpreted some of the things I said. Like, for instance, I did not say the idea that cigarette smoking causes cancer is not true. What I said is that observational studies such as those we are forced by ethics to rely on cannot legitimately be used to infer that it's true if one follows the rules of statistical inference. Failure to infer that something is true does not mean it's been inferred to be false.

And what I said about the God thing...or the prayer thing...is consistent with that. Failure to infer that prayer has an effect does NOT mean it's been inferred that prayer does NOT have an effect.

I did not say that science has proven that genetic differences in learning abilities between races exist. I went out of my way to say that such a thing cannot be proven because, if it IS true, showing it to be so would require experiments that cannot be conducted. What I said is that there are associations that suggest innate differences in aptitude MAY exist and that our society nevertheless assumes that can't possibly be true.

[∞∞∞]

I think you may have misinterpreted some of the things I said. Like, for instance, I did not say the idea that cigarette smoking causes cancer is not true. What I said is that observational studies such as those we are forced by ethics to rely on cannot legitimately be used to infer that it's true if one follows the rules of statistical inference. Failure to infer that something is true does not mean it's been inferred to be false.

And what I said about the God thing...or the prayer thing...is consistent with that. Failure to infer that prayer has an effect does NOT mean it's been inferred that prayer does NOT have an effect.

I did not say that science has proven that genetic differences in learning abilities between races exist. I went out of my way to say that such a thing cannot be proven because, if it IS true, showing it to be so would require experiments that cannot be conducted. What I said is that there are associations that suggest innate differences in aptitude MAY exist and that our society nevertheless assumes that can't possibly be true.

Fair enough. That clears it up a bit.

[JohnStOnge]

The EPA didn't predict "a" drought, it predicted an increasing amount of changes to Texas and a decreasing amount of water available over the next 5 decades up to 2040 I believe, and steps to curb and manage the water supplies based on what they think will happen.

I linked the study on the previous page...

I scanned the study and it looks like it's a pretty reasonable tone. Like this statement:

"The approach taken here is to test the economy, resource management institutions, and ecosystems by imagining what changes could occur during the next few decades. Scenarios used are not predictions, but are real possibilities."

All they appear to have been doing was telling people "it's possible that certain things could happen and you should be prepared for them." That's reasonable in my opinion.

But I don't think it was an EPA study. I looks like it was funded by EPA but done by Texas institutions.

[JohnStOnge]

Here the two major principles behind what I typically opine, ODU:

1) Statistical data resulting from observational study cannot be used to infer cause and effect. When it comes to statistics, only data generated through a controlled experiment can be used to infer cause and effect.

2) Failure to infer through a controlled experiment that a chosen factor has an effect does NOT mean that it's been shown that the factor does NOT have an effect.

I think if you really read what I write you will see that I stick to those principles. I also think that if you were to take my statement of those two principles to your favorite statistician they'd say they're correct.

And I think they are both frequently...VERY frequently...violated.

[Appaholic]

Why don't the Texans just drink Cotton? It quenches the thirst better than the water from the Ogalla Aquifer used to grow more cotton to create crop surpluses and drive down cotton prices across the SE US in the last century. Maybe they can hook up with Cali and approach Canada about importing some water or just divert the water from the Mississippi....nothing's impossible in Texas (....except getting water from your tap on demand apparantly )....

[dbackjon]

Why don't the Texans just drink Cotton? It quenches the thirst better than the water from the Ogalla Aquifer used to grow more cotton to create crop surpluses and drive down cotton prices across the SE US in the last century. Maybe they can hook up with Cali and approach Canada about importing some water or just divert the water from the Mississippi....nothing's impossible in Texas (....except getting water from your tap on demand apparantly )....

The Ogalla Aquifer is not for humans - only for agriculture and oil fracking.

[Appaholic]

Why don't the Texans just drink Cotton? It quenches the thirst better than the water from the Ogalla Aquifer used to grow more cotton to create crop surpluses and drive down cotton prices across the SE US in the last century. Maybe they can hook up with Cali and approach Canada about importing some water or just divert the water from the Mississippi....nothing's impossible in Texas (....except getting water from your tap on demand apparantly )....

The Ogalla Aquifer is not for humans - only for agriculture and oil fracking.

I stand corrected.....

[houndawg]

TM, I'll read your links when I have more time as they seem quite lengthy (working on a project right now), and I get that one thing like this drought doesn't mean a direct link to climate change, but my point is that the EPA study in 1993 was trying to help Texas prepare for an increasing amount of droughts that they believed would start around ~2013...and they didn't care to listen because of ignorace. Bluehen86 made the point that we can argue why it's happening but you really can't say it isn't happening. We're seeing it everywhere...from Iceland where the Puffins have stopped breeding because their food source is disappearing due to shrinking glaciers, to the Maldive Islands where its sinking at their fastest rate ever, to the decrease of available fresh water in Africa, Asia, and the Southwest due to rising temperatures (and water mismanagement), and etc. All this is happening in a short period of time as well.

My friend, the next wars on Earth will be fought not for gold or oil or anything like that...it'll be for water.Personally I think the US will be in an ok position since we and Canada are the largest exporters of virtual water (which will give us a lot of leverage against other nations since water is the necessity of life, agriculture, and industrial processes), but other nations aren't going to be as lucky. We shouldn't shrug off climate change as some pseudo-science (and we haven't been in some regards which is good). It's something we can prepare for now rather cheaply compared to ignoring it and letting my generation or my children's generation pay a lot for it in the future...kinda like the debt.

ps. I don't like Al Gore.

edit: changed it to BlueHen86. My bad.

[GannonFan]

TM, I'll read your links when I have more time as they seem quite lengthy (working on a project right now), and I get that one thing like this drought doesn't mean a direct link to climate change, but my point is that the EPA study in 1993 was trying to help Texas prepare for an increasing amount of droughts that they believed would start around ~2013...and they didn't care to listen because of ignorace. Bluehen86 made the point that we can argue why it's happening but you really can't say it isn't happening. We're seeing it everywhere...from Iceland where the Puffins have stopped breeding because their food source is disappearing due to shrinking glaciers, to the Maldive Islands where its sinking at their fastest rate ever, to the decrease of available fresh water in Africa, Asia, and the Southwest due to rising temperatures (and water mismanagement), and etc. All this is happening in a short period of time as well.

My friend, the next wars on Earth will be fought not for gold or oil or anything like that...it'll be for water.Personally I think the US will be in an ok position since we and Canada are the largest exporters of virtual water (which will give us a lot of leverage against other nations since water is the necessity of life, agriculture, and industrial processes), but other nations aren't going to be as lucky. We shouldn't shrug off climate change as some pseudo-science (and we haven't been in some regards which is good). It's something we can prepare for now rather cheaply compared to ignoring it and letting my generation or my children's generation pay a lot for it in the future...kinda like the debt.

ps. I don't like Al Gore.

edit: changed it to BlueHen86. My bad.

The only way that the next wars on Earth (real wars, not little skirmishes between African warlords in broken countries) will be fought over water is if the whole world collapses into a Mad Max type environment. Seriously, the technology and know-how of how to desalinate water is so well known and developed that a gradually warming planet will be giving us even more sea water to use. We've had RO technology now for 30-40 years so there will be plenty of water to drink and use going forward. Of course there will always be smaller wars fought over access to water, but those happen today and have happened for centuries, but they are restricted to poor, undeveloped countries. You aren't going to see major powers fighting over water, that's just nonsense.

[dbackjon]

The Ogalla Aquifer is not for humans - only for agriculture and oil fracking.

I stand corrected.....

Of course, it COULD be used for humans, but oil and cotton are far more important

[Cap'n Cat]

Jesus Is Coming. Look Busy.

[dbackjon]

Jesus Is Coming. Look Busy.

We just hired Jesus here at work.

[Appaholic]

I stand corrected.....

Of course, it COULD be used for humans, but oil and cotton are far more important

I guess Humans should hire a better lobbying and marketing firm....

[grizzaholic]

[AZGrizFan]

That's classic.