It's Going To Get Really "Bad After The Next Election"

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Re: It's Going To Get Really "Bad After The Next Election"

Post by Chizzang »

kalm wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
I don't necessarily agree...
The ability to arbitrarily move decimal points and control market values should never be underestimated
The smoke and mirrors part has already been revealed and nobody seemed to notice


:nod:
In all seriousness, I've seen very little to suggest that nearly every industry is NOT still completely over-built. Too many coffee shops, too many bank branches, too many car dealerships, too many homes etc. I'm concerned that Obama re-inflated a 30 year bubble and the chickens have still not come home to roost.
I'm thinking the unemployment rate is about where it's going to stay (forever) and ever 15%
I don't see it coming back no matter who get elected
So in light of that we'll just move the decimal point again :mrgreen:
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Re: It's Going To Get Really "Bad After The Next Election"

Post by CID1990 »

The only way our industries can compete with countries like China is through automation; instead if using a worker for peanuts, you employ a robot that doesn't demand higher pay and join unions. That means less jobs.

Cleets is likely more right than wrong on this one, although I think that when the economy is better and people are investing in non-material consumer products that benefit nobody (like dot-coms) our unemployment might dip below 7 but thats about it.
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Re: It's Going To Get Really "Bad After The Next Election"

Post by Gil Dobie »

Skjellyfetti wrote:And why is the economy going to wait until "after the next election" to crash?
The powers that be want it that way. I didn't realize CNBC was a Republican network, just thought it was an interesting story that may affect this country.
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Re: It's Going To Get Really "Bad After The Next Election"

Post by andy7171 »

Oswald Bates

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Re: It's Going To Get Really "Bad After The Next Election"

Post by 93henfan »

andy7171 wrote:Oswald Bates

...b=ecause a mind is a terrible thing to develop.
You are correct sir!
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Re: It's Going To Get Really

Post by Baldy »

CID1990 wrote:The only way our industries can compete with countries like China is through automation; instead if using a worker for peanuts, you employ a robot that doesn't demand higher pay and join unions. That means less jobs.

Cleets is likely more right than wrong on this one, although I think that when the economy is better and people are investing in non-material consumer products that benefit nobody (like dot-coms) our unemployment might dip below 7 but thats about it.
You're mostly correct. Labor costs aside, it costs manufacturers 20% more to produce goods in this country than it does in the countries of our nine largest trading partners. Until that changes (quickly), companies will continue to offshore any and every manufacturing process they can....and you can't blame them for that at all. :ohno:
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Re: It's Going To Get Really

Post by GannonFan »

Baldy wrote:
CID1990 wrote:The only way our industries can compete with countries like China is through automation; instead if using a worker for peanuts, you employ a robot that doesn't demand higher pay and join unions. That means less jobs.

Cleets is likely more right than wrong on this one, although I think that when the economy is better and people are investing in non-material consumer products that benefit nobody (like dot-coms) our unemployment might dip below 7 but thats about it.
You're mostly correct. Labor costs aside, it costs manufacturers 20% more to produce goods in this country than it does in the countries of our nine largest trading partners. Until that changes (quickly), companies will continue to offshore any and every manufacturing process they can....and you can't blame them for that at all. :ohno:
And that's why the stuff we should make here should be high tech, proprietary, hard-to-make stuff that isn't easily off-shorable or would be things you wouldn't want going to areas where intellectual property is at risk. We don't need to be making toothpicks here, somebody else can and does make just as good of a toothpick somewhere else for a fraction of the cost, even when you include the transport. In the long run, that's the way for us to compete. Anything that steers us away from that (increasing tarriffs, legislating anti-dumping measures, etc) only delay us from the inevitable. We'll never be a country again that mindlessly produces simple things with large swarths of people - and that's not a bad thing either.
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Re: It's Going To Get Really

Post by dbackjon »

Baldy wrote:
CID1990 wrote:The only way our industries can compete with countries like China is through automation; instead if using a worker for peanuts, you employ a robot that doesn't demand higher pay and join unions. That means less jobs.

Cleets is likely more right than wrong on this one, although I think that when the economy is better and people are investing in non-material consumer products that benefit nobody (like dot-coms) our unemployment might dip below 7 but thats about it.
You're mostly correct. Labor costs aside, it costs manufacturers 20% more to produce goods in this country than it does in the countries of our nine largest trading partners. Until that changes (quickly), companies will continue to offshore any and every manufacturing process they can....and you can't blame them for that at all. :ohno:
Can you expand on that?
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Re: It's Going To Get Really

Post by Grizalltheway »

Baldy wrote:
CID1990 wrote:The only way our industries can compete with countries like China is through automation; instead if using a worker for peanuts, you employ a robot that doesn't demand higher pay and join unions. That means less jobs.

Cleets is likely more right than wrong on this one, although I think that when the economy is better and people are investing in non-material consumer products that benefit nobody (like dot-coms) our unemployment might dip below 7 but thats about it.
You're mostly correct. Labor costs aside, it costs manufacturers 20% more to produce goods in this country than it does in the countries of our nine largest trading partners. Until that changes (quickly), companies will continue to offshore any and every manufacturing process they can....and you can't blame them for that at all. :ohno:
Funny, Germany manages to have a robust manufacturing and exporting sector, even with a MUCH stronger union presence than us. :coffee:
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Re: It's Going To Get Really

Post by Baldy »

dbackjon wrote:
Baldy wrote: You're mostly correct. Labor costs aside, it costs manufacturers 20% more to produce goods in this country than it does in the countries of our nine largest trading partners. Until that changes (quickly), companies will continue to offshore any and every manufacturing process they can....and you can't blame them for that at all. :ohno:
Can you expand on that?
Between tort issues, corporate income taxes, employee bennies, energy costs, etc. the cost of doing business in the US is expensive compared to our major competition. Here is a synopsis of a report from the MAPI.

http://www.mapi.net/facts-about-modern-manufacturing
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Re: It's Going To Get Really "Bad After The Next Election"

Post by DSUrocks07 »

Skjellyfetti wrote:Image
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MEAC, last one out turn off the lights.

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Re: It's Going To Get Really "Bad After The Next Election"

Post by CID1990 »

Grizalltheway wrote:
Baldy wrote: You're mostly correct. Labor costs aside, it costs manufacturers 20% more to produce goods in this country than it does in the countries of our nine largest trading partners. Until that changes (quickly), companies will continue to offshore any and every manufacturing process they can....and you can't blame them for that at all. :ohno:
Funny, Germany manages to have a robust manufacturing and exporting sector, even with a MUCH stronger union presence than us. :coffee:
There are numerous differences between us and Germany. First, work contracts generally do not affect productivity, they just deal more heavily with benefits and pay and are light on the proverbial coffee breaks.

Anyone at the BMW plant in Spartanburg (which is there because of the high cost of manufacturing in Germany... and the lack of unions in SC.. hmm) can tell you that German work expectations are quite strict, and benefits center more around pay and healthcare and nothing else.

Lastly, many labor contracts in Germany do not have to be nearly as comprehensive because the government provides a lot of benefits that would normally be in a labor contract here in the US. Germany can afford to do this for a number of reasons, but one big one is that their defense spending is a minuscule fraction of ours, because the US is the guarantor of their security, as it is for all of Western Europe.

Oh, and Germans on the whole take a lot of pride in their work and efficiency. Americans just get by until the lunch bell rings, and American unions make sure they can continue doing just that.

Unions and corporations are much more symbiotic there, rather than adversarial which is the case here.
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Re: It's Going To Get Really

Post by Baldy »

Grizalltheway wrote:
Baldy wrote: You're mostly correct. Labor costs aside, it costs manufacturers 20% more to produce goods in this country than it does in the countries of our nine largest trading partners. Until that changes (quickly), companies will continue to offshore any and every manufacturing process they can....and you can't blame them for that at all. :ohno:
Funny, Germany manages to have a robust manufacturing and exporting sector, even with a MUCH stronger union presence than us. :coffee:
What part of "labor costs aside" do you not fucking understand? :suspicious:
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Re: It's Going To Get Really

Post by mrklean »

CID1990 wrote:The only way our industries can compete with countries like China is through automation; instead if using a worker for peanuts, you employ a robot that doesn't demand higher pay and join unions. That means less jobs.

Cleets is likely more right than wrong on this one, although I think that when the economy is better and people are investing in non-material consumer products that benefit nobody (like dot-coms) our unemployment might dip below 7 but thats about it.
Automation+ prices will still be high. The avg. Ford F-150 is approximately 28k. The CEO of Ford is not going to lower prices. Hes not going to give back money. Should he? YES! Will he? HELL NO!!!! Companies are too greedy to lower prices even if the Plant was 100% Automated.
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Re: It's Going To Get Really

Post by GannonFan »

mrklean wrote:
CID1990 wrote:The only way our industries can compete with countries like China is through automation; instead if using a worker for peanuts, you employ a robot that doesn't demand higher pay and join unions. That means less jobs.

Cleets is likely more right than wrong on this one, although I think that when the economy is better and people are investing in non-material consumer products that benefit nobody (like dot-coms) our unemployment might dip below 7 but thats about it.
Automation+ prices will still be high. The avg. Ford F-150 is approximately 28k. The CEO of Ford is not going to lower prices. Hes not going to give back money. Should he? YES! Will he? HELL NO!!!! Companies are too greedy to lower prices even if the Plant was 100% Automated.
Ford lists an average profit margin of 2.19% over the past five years. Probably closer to 3%-5% over a shorter timeframe. In your opinion, what would be a reasonable profit margin for Ford to have? How much should they be allowed to make?
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Re: It's Going To Get Really

Post by Baldy »

mrklean wrote:
CID1990 wrote:The only way our industries can compete with countries like China is through automation; instead if using a worker for peanuts, you employ a robot that doesn't demand higher pay and join unions. That means less jobs.

Cleets is likely more right than wrong on this one, although I think that when the economy is better and people are investing in non-material consumer products that benefit nobody (like dot-coms) our unemployment might dip below 7 but thats about it.
Automation+ prices will still be high. The avg. Ford F-150 is approximately 28k. The CEO of Ford is not going to lower prices. Hes not going to give back money. Should he? YES! Will he? HELL NO!!!! Companies are too greedy to lower prices even if the Plant was 100% Automated.
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Re: It's Going To Get Really

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CID1990 wrote:The only way our industries can compete with countries like China is through automation; instead if using a worker for peanuts, you employ a robot that doesn't demand higher pay and join unions. That means less jobs.

Cleets is likely more right than wrong on this one, although I think that when the economy is better and people are investing in non-material consumer products that benefit nobody (like dot-coms) our unemployment might dip below 7 but thats about it.
The last three recession recoveries have been essentially jobless recoveries. Why should this one be any different?
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Re: It's Going To Get Really

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GannonFan wrote:
mrklean wrote:
Automation+ prices will still be high. The avg. Ford F-150 is approximately 28k. The CEO of Ford is not going to lower prices. Hes not going to give back money. Should he? YES! Will he? HELL NO!!!! Companies are too greedy to lower prices even if the Plant was 100% Automated.
Ford lists an average profit margin of 2.19% over the past five years. Probably closer to 3%-5% over a shorter timeframe. In your opinion, what would be a reasonable profit margin for Ford to have? How much should they be allowed to make?
kleanex falls right in line with those DNC folks who felt corporate profits should be outlawed.
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Re: It's Going To Get Really "Bad After The Next Election"

Post by CID1990 »

mrklean wrote:
CID1990 wrote:The only way our industries can compete with countries like China is through automation; instead if using a worker for peanuts, you employ a robot that doesn't demand higher pay and join unions. That means less jobs.

Cleets is likely more right than wrong on this one, although I think that when the economy is better and people are investing in non-material consumer products that benefit nobody (like dot-coms) our unemployment might dip below 7 but thats about it.
Automation+ prices will still be high. The avg. Ford F-150 is approximately 28k. The CEO of Ford is not going to lower prices. Hes not going to give back money. Should he? YES! Will he? HELL NO!!!! Companies are too greedy to lower prices even if the Plant was 100% Automated.
Please make it stop

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Re: It's Going To Get Really "Bad After The Next Election"

Post by Ivytalk »

kalm wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
I don't necessarily agree...
The ability to arbitrarily move decimal points and control market values should never be underestimated
The smoke and mirrors part has already been revealed and nobody seemed to notice


:nod:
In all seriousness, I've seen very little to suggest that nearly every industry is NOT still completely over-built. Too many coffee shops, too many bank branches, too many car dealerships, too many homes etc. I'm concerned that Obama re-inflated a 30 year bubble and the chickens have still not come home to roost.
Too many golf courses... :roll:
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Re: It's Going To Get Really

Post by Ivytalk »

GannonFan wrote:
mrklean wrote:
Automation+ prices will still be high. The avg. Ford F-150 is approximately 28k. The CEO of Ford is not going to lower prices. Hes not going to give back money. Should he? YES! Will he? HELL NO!!!! Companies are too greedy to lower prices even if the Plant was 100% Automated.
Ford lists an average profit margin of 2.19% over the past five years. Probably closer to 3%-5% over a shorter timeframe. In your opinion, what would be a reasonable profit margin for Ford to have? How much should they be allowed to make?
Shit, Ganny, are you actually taking Kotex seriously? :shock:
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Re: It's Going To Get Really "Bad After The Next Election"

Post by kalm »

Ivytalk wrote:
kalm wrote:
In all seriousness, I've seen very little to suggest that nearly every industry is NOT still completely over-built. Too many coffee shops, too many bank branches, too many car dealerships, too many homes etc. I'm concerned that Obama re-inflated a 30 year bubble and the chickens have still not come home to roost.
Too many golf courses... :roll:
This...is VERY true. :ohno:
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Re: It's Going To Get Really "Bad After The Next Election"

Post by Grizalltheway »

kalm wrote:
Ivytalk wrote: Too many golf courses... :roll:
This...is VERY true. :ohno:
Get rid of them all and build tennis courts over them. It's a superior sport, anyway. :coffee:
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Re: It's Going To Get Really "Bad After The Next Election"

Post by Ivytalk »

kalm wrote:
Ivytalk wrote: Too many golf courses... :roll:
This...is VERY true. :ohno:
Too many holes, not enough Japanese hackers.

Too many lawyers, too, you'll be happy to hear! Glad I'm within sniffing distance of retiring. :nod:
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Re: It's Going To Get Really "Bad After The Next Election"

Post by Grizalltheway »

Ivytalk wrote:
kalm wrote:
This...is VERY true. :ohno:
Too many holes, not enough Japanese hackers.

Too many lawyers, too, you'll be happy to hear! Glad I'm within sniffing distance of retiring. :nod:
There's ALWAYS been too many lawyers. :coffee:


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