Clinton e-mailgate

Political discussions

How big a problem is this for Hillary in '16?

Meh, not a big deal
5
13%
Moderate, along the lines of Christie's Bridgegate
3
8%
Huge
23
59%
Pee in GATW's butt
8
21%
 
Total votes: 39

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Re: Clinton e-mailgate

Post by BDKJMU »

dbackjon wrote:
GannonFan wrote:
Technically speaking, the Presidential Records Act was passed in 1978, and at that time, included language such as "documentary materials … created by the President or his immediate staff.” In turn, the term documentary materials includes all books, correspondence, memorandums, documents, papers, pamphlets, works of art, models, pictures, photographs, plats, maps, films, and motion pictures, including, but not
limited to, audio, audiovisual, or other electronic or mechanical recordations."

The ammendments you are referring to, which ammended the PRA and were passed in 2014, did not substantially alter the general idea that electronic correspondence needed to be archived or archivable, just clarified where it was to be kept.

I really don't care greatly as I think this is a pretty trivial thing unless she was using something really weak in terms of security, but it would appear to be a violation of the PRA, technically speaking.
That is not what happened. Prior to 2014, there was no law against using personal email. Only that it be archived. Which it was.

There is no scandal. There is no impropriety. Just the typical right-wing media FAKE scandals.

1. Clinton was not the first Secretary to use a private email account. In fact, John Kerry is the first Secretary to use “a standard government email address,” according to The Washington Post.

2. Clinton turned over her emails to the State Department. It’s not clear whether her predecessors did the same.

3. The Times article says the “existence of Mrs. Clinton’s personal email account was discovered by a House committee investigating the attack on the American Consulate in Benghazi.” This is incorrect. Gawker reported this first, in March 2013.

4. At the time Clinton was Secretary, the Federal Records Act didn’t require federal employees to use government accounts, only to preserve records of their communications. This, Clinton seems to have done.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... -fast.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
WRONG.
"Thousands of emails Hillary Clinton generated as secretary of state were not archived as official government records because she used a private email account to conduct State Department business, the State Department acknowledged Monday."
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/03/h ... 15686.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You're parroting the donk line that Hillary Clinton’s emails to other State Department employees were being caught & archived. But that doesn't address the emails that she sent to other government departments, the White House, foreign leaders, friends, other Americans. Those people didn’t have State Department email accounts.,and the emails were not being caught in the State Department’s web because they were elsewhere.

WRONG on Kerry being the 1st. In the NBC link I posted above that you obviously didn't read:
"Rice "did not use her personal e-mail for official communication as Secretary" and instead exclusively used her State Department account, according to a top aide who did not want to be quoted publicly."
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Re: Clinton e-mailgate

Post by Grizalltheway »

None of that changes the fact that the new regs didn't take effect until after she left office.

Neeeeeeext.
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Re: Clinton e-mailgate

Post by dbackjon »

BDKJMU wrote:
dbackjon wrote:
That is not what happened. Prior to 2014, there was no law against using personal email. Only that it be archived. Which it was.

There is no scandal. There is no impropriety. Just the typical right-wing media FAKE scandals.

1. Clinton was not the first Secretary to use a private email account. In fact, John Kerry is the first Secretary to use “a standard government email address,” according to The Washington Post.

2. Clinton turned over her emails to the State Department. It’s not clear whether her predecessors did the same.

3. The Times article says the “existence of Mrs. Clinton’s personal email account was discovered by a House committee investigating the attack on the American Consulate in Benghazi.” This is incorrect. Gawker reported this first, in March 2013.

4. At the time Clinton was Secretary, the Federal Records Act didn’t require federal employees to use government accounts, only to preserve records of their communications. This, Clinton seems to have done.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... -fast.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
WRONG.
"Thousands of emails Hillary Clinton generated as secretary of state were not archived as official government records because she used a private email account to conduct State Department business, the State Department acknowledged Monday."
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/03/h ... 15686.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You're parroting the donk line that Hillary Clinton’s emails to other State Department employees were being caught & archived. But that doesn't address the emails that she sent to other government departments, the White House, foreign leaders, friends, other Americans. Those people didn’t have State Department email accounts.,and the emails were not being caught in the State Department’s web because they were elsewhere.

WRONG on Kerry being the 1st. In the NBC link I posted above that you obviously didn't read:
"Rice "did not use her personal e-mail for official communication as Secretary" and instead exclusively used her State Department account, according to a top aide who did not want to be quoted publicly."

God damn you are fucking stupid.

You are quoting an article that uses as it's source the ORIGINAL ARTICLE that has already been debunked.


do you even read the crap you post? Or are you incapable of comprehension?


Don't worry, little one - there will be another fake scandal soon for you to masterbate to.
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Re: Clinton e-mailgate

Post by tribe_pride »

dbackjon wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:
Bingo. You're not talking about some GS-7 Secretary/Admin Assistant. You're taking the Sec of f'ing State receiving and sending info, at least some of it undoubtedly highly classified info, using a not very secure personal e-mail account, EXCLUSIVELY for 4 years as Sec State. Heck, Petraus just pled guilty to "unauthorized removal and retention of classified material." In addition The Federal Records Act requiremes that officials’ correspondence be retained as part of the agency’s record. Any other govt employee did this they would be hosed. But since it's Hillary she'll just plead ignorance, blame it on the vast right wing conspiracy, and get away with it..
So are you upset that Powell did the same thing?

And why are you so upset about her violating a law that was passed AFTER she left office?
Looks like Powell did the same thing to a lesser extent (from my 2 second reading of things) so yes my thoughts are the same about Powell. I am not one that says you are Democrat or Republican so I need to think this way.

For me, it's not about violating the law (though it is bad to break the law), it's about what I described in my post earlier - Employer e-mails should be sent exclusively (save exceptional circumstances) from employer e-mail server. the higher position and more secure information you send, the more this better be true.

Also, not sure why people send personal e-mail from their work accounts. For different reasons, this is not a smart thing to do either.
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Re: Clinton e-mailgate

Post by dbackjon »

I'd like CID to weigh in on this, but from what I have been reading, the Dept of State email system, especially until recently, was close to Stone Age in practicality, reliability - especially when not in the physical building.
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Re: Clinton e-mailgate

Post by AZGrizFan »

dbackjon wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:I'm gonna go out on a sturdy limb and suggest that she's not the first government official to do this.
Colin Powell did the same when he was Sec of State
And I'm gonna guess that HE wasn't the first eithr.... :coffee:
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Re: Clinton e-mailgate

Post by dbackjon »

AZGrizFan wrote:
dbackjon wrote:
Colin Powell did the same when he was Sec of State
And I'm gonna guess that HE wasn't the first eithr.... :coffee:

Nope.


It is funny - both the far right and the left are frothing about this - because they don't like Hillary. You should read DU - it is funny
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Re: Clinton e-mailgate

Post by tribe_pride »

dback - taking the politics out of this, do you think there is nothing wrong with this (not talking about Hillary specifically but for any Secretary of State or other employee)?
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Re: Clinton e-mailgate

Post by JohnStOnge »

I didn't vote because to me it's basically uncertain. I do know that this stuff about how Colin Powell used his personal e mail account is deceptive. In recent years rules have been put in place whereby Federal employees have been told they can NOT use personal e mail accounts for official business. Such rules were, to my knowledge, not in place during Colin Powell's day. As I understand it the current Records Management Act went into effect in January, 2012. So it was in effect when, for instance, Hillary was sending and receiving e mails about the September, 2012, Benghazi incident. It wasn't in effect during Colin Powell's day.
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Re: Clinton e-mailgate

Post by JohnStOnge »

Is here ANYBODY here who believe Hillary Clinton is honest, by the way? Just curious.
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Re: Clinton e-mailgate

Post by travelinman67 »

She set up the email domain the same day she had her first SOS confirmation hearing, and NEVER used a State Dept email...according to reports.

Obama
Browner
Clinton
Lerner
Holder
Lubchenko
King
...and several WH staff

Have been caught destroying or withholding communications subject to congressional oversight...

...kinda seeing a pattern here.
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Re: Clinton e-mailgate

Post by dbackjon »

Read it weep bitches

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/artic ... mail-story" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Clinton e-mailgate

Post by BDKJMU »

AZGrizFan wrote:
dbackjon wrote:
Colin Powell did the same when he was Sec of State
And I'm gonna guess that HE wasn't the first eithr.... :coffee:
How many Sec of State before Powell even used e-mail period? 1?Albright (97'-01')? I doubt Warren (93'-97') did. Anyway, comparing e-mail use back then to e-mail use now would be like comparing a Model T to a Lexus.
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Re: Clinton e-mailgate

Post by Ivytalk »

dbackjon wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:
Fail.
Hillary Clinton's Personal Email Use Differed from Other Top Officials
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/electio ... ls-n316611" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
From your article:
As Clinton aides have noted, Colin Powell did regularly use a personal e-mail account while Secretary of State.

A Powell aide confirmed that information, saying, "General Powell used a personal email account during his tenure as Secretary of State. He was not aware of any restrictions nor does he recall being made aware of any over the four years he served at State."


You failed, again.
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Re: Clinton e-mailgate

Post by travelinman67 »

dbackjon wrote:Read it weep bitches

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/artic ... mail-story" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yup! There it is!

An unamed Clinton aide said she did nothing wrong.

Well, that's good enough for me.
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Re: Clinton e-mailgate

Post by CID1990 »

dbackjon wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:I'm gonna go out on a sturdy limb and suggest that she's not the first government official to do this.
Colin Powell did the same when he was Sec of State
You also know why he did, and why this is different, right?

Hint: believe it or not, DOS didn't have regular email before Powell. That's right- no i.ternet and no email at you desk. State was still writing cables on this big Wangs up to 911.
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Re: Clinton e-mailgate

Post by CID1990 »

BENGHAZI!
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Re: Clinton e-mailgate

Post by Ivytalk »

CID1990 wrote:BENGHAZI!
BUT BUSH! :lol:
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Re: Clinton e-mailgate

Post by ASUG8 »

dbackjon wrote:I'd like CID to weigh in on this, but from what I have been reading, the Dept of State email system, especially until recently, was close to Stone Age in practicality, reliability - especially when not in the physical building.
One would think that the government would put some emphasis on protecting DOS communications. I guess the Chinese and Russians have had unfettered access for years now.
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Re: Clinton e-mailgate

Post by CID1990 »

Remember when John Podesta and the rest of the acolytes were outraged over the Bush admin using private email accounts?

Good times
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Re: Clinton e-mailgate

Post by Skjellyfetti »

Not just private email account.
Like a salmon returning to its home stream, the Hillary Clinton email controversy, in which the former secretary of state exclusively used a private email address to conduct government business throughout her stint at Foggy Bottom, traced its way back to a private server that Clinton was running out of her Chappaqua home.

"The highly unusual practice of a Cabinet-level official physically running her own email would have given Clinton, the presumptive Democratic presidential candidate, impressive control over limiting access to her message archives," the AP reported on Wednesday.

Adding a new conspiratorial flourish was the revelation that the service was registered to someone named Eric Hoteham, a name, which the AP noted, "does not appear in public-records databases, campaign-contribution records or Internet background searches." This curious detail was quickly pounced upon by conservative commentators on social media.

Like the private email address itself, the routing of correspondence through what is being characterized as a "homebrew server" appears more bizarre and surreal than definitively illegal. Clinton has not directly addressed the issue, but her team dismissed the controversy: "Like Secretaries of State before her, she used her own email account when engaging with any Department officials," said a Clinton spokesperson. "For government business, she emailed them on their Department accounts, with every expectation they would be retained." (Historians and archivists begged to differ.)

"The mechanics matter a lot," John Wonderlich of the Sunlight Foundation said about Clinton's homebrew server on Wednesday. "The difference is that she created her own infrastructure that she privatized entirely and put under her own personal control."

In some ways, having her own server could ensure that the information is more secure since, as the AP report noted, "an email server there would have been well protected from theft or a physical hacking," as the Secret Service guarded Clinton's home. But the isolation could also shield Clinton's correspondence from Freedom of Information (FOIA) requests, inhibiting transparency and limiting the ability of others to pursue legal cases.

"For me, a huge question is if FOIA officers could do their job?" Wonderlick asked. "Would those FOIA requests be sent to a Clinton staffer?"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... ource=SFFB" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Clinton e-mailgate

Post by travelinman67 »

Just about to tell Jellydonut his rebuttal might gain traction were he to provide another denial from an unbiased news source like Huffpo, WAPO, Salon....

...then, he quotes "The Atlantic".

:rofl:



Look, Jelly...

...you could post a thousand denials-of-wrongdoing from Jesus, his disciples, everyman's Mother and Priest...

...and Hillary will still be a lying, untrustworthy, snake-oil salesperson.

Few people in recent history are more hated AND more loved than her. She's the quintessential polarizer. Her supporters would turn a blind eye to her faults regardless the severity, and her denigrators WILL NEVER forgive her trespasses...

...I.e. Save your breath.
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Re: Clinton e-mailgate

Post by kalm »

travelinman67 wrote:Just about to tell Jellydonut his rebuttal might gain traction were he to provide another denial from an unbiased news source like Huffpo, WAPO, Salon....

...then, he quotes "The Atlantic".

:rofl:



Look, Jelly...

...you could post a thousand denials-of-wrongdoing from Jesus, his disciples, everyman's Mother and Priest...

...and Hillary will still be a lying, untrustworthy, snake-oil salesperson.

Few people in recent history are more hated AND more loved than her. She's the quintessential polarizer. Her supporters would turn a blind eye to her faults regardless the severity, and her denigrators WILL NEVER forgive her trespasses...

...I.e. Save your breath.
What's wrong with the Atlantic? No wait…forget it. You're explanation would be painfully embarrassing even for you. :lol:

You do realize that article supported HIlary suspicions in this, right?

But I agree regarding Hilary's trust-worthiness.
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Re: Clinton e-mailgate

Post by travelinman67 »

Klam...when you're incapable of recognizing press bias, you're in over your head.
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Re: Clinton e-mailgate

Post by Skjellyfetti »

travelinman67 wrote:Just about to tell Jellydonut his rebuttal might gain traction were he to provide another denial from an unbiased news source like Huffpo, WAPO, Salon....

...then, he quotes "The Atlantic".

:rofl:



Look, Jelly...

...you could post a thousand denials-of-wrongdoing from Jesus, his disciples, everyman's Mother and Priest...

...and Hillary will still be a lying, untrustworthy, snake-oil salesperson.

Few people in recent history are more hated AND more loved than her. She's the quintessential polarizer. Her supporters would turn a blind eye to her faults regardless the severity, and her denigrators WILL NEVER forgive her trespasses...

...I.e. Save your breath.
Wow.

You think my post was defending Hillary? :wall: You're absolutely batshit. :lol:
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