Which is exactly why I don't support doing it. 
As per usual, levelheaded post from the furple one.OL FU wrote:I said protect the animals that are there. IF that means there are wolves living in Montana, restrict growth and let them be. But sorry, I don't see any reason to release predators into areas where people live or ranch or recreate. On the other hand, I do agree with some of the other sentiments. IF they are good for the wilds of Wyoming, then they are good for the hills of Hendersonville.
I have some friends who think we should do the same thing with mountain lions in Western NC. (Of course I have some friends that say mountain lions are still there and some of those friends probably made their nightly visit to one of the Grays spaceships). I simply can't imagine why anyone (unless they stay in their house all day) thinks that is a good idea.
Agree....just hate the sentiment that the wolves (or any other animals) don't have a right to be in the same area they've always been as we encroach on their habitat...restrict the people as well as the animals...Wedgebuster wrote:As per usual, levelheaded post from the furple one.OL FU wrote:I said protect the animals that are there. IF that means there are wolves living in Montana, restrict growth and let them be. But sorry, I don't see any reason to release predators into areas where people live or ranch or recreate. On the other hand, I do agree with some of the other sentiments. IF they are good for the wilds of Wyoming, then they are good for the hills of Hendersonville.
I have some friends who think we should do the same thing with mountain lions in Western NC. (Of course I have some friends that say mountain lions are still there and some of those friends probably made their nightly visit to one of the Grays spaceships). I simply can't imagine why anyone (unless they stay in their house all day) thinks that is a good idea.
A lot of my friends swear we do and generally they are pretty credible. If you see one make sure you take a picture cuz all sources I have found (outside of the slightly off base websites and some of my fellow but a little more adventurous hiking buddies) say we don't and that no evidence has been found of one in something like 100 years. I realize there are some pretty desolate areas in Western NC but I'll have to be the empiricist and say what I say about big foot. Until there is evidence other than I saw him, I will remain skepticalAppaholic wrote:Agree....just hate the sentiment that the wolves (or any other animals) don't have a right to be in the same area they've always been as we encroach on their habitat...restrict the people as well as the animals...Wedgebuster wrote:
As per usual, levelheaded post from the furple one.
and for the record, we do have mountain lions in WNC....and tyhey don't fly spaceships...
Mountain Lion scat has been located in Massachusets & Virginia....but you are correct, no "official" sightings have been documented....but there are very many unofficial, yet credible sightings throughout the Appalachian range....OL FU wrote:A lot of my friends swear we do and generally they are pretty credible. If you see one make sure you take a picture cuz all sources I have found (outside of the slightly off base websites and some of my fellow but a little more adventurous hiking buddies) say we don't and that no evidence has been found of one in something like 100 years. I realize there are some pretty desolate areas in Western NC but I'll have to be the empiricist and say what I say about big foot. Until there is evidence other than I saw him, I will remain skepticalAppaholic wrote:
Agree....just hate the sentiment that the wolves (or any other animals) don't have a right to be in the same area they've always been as we encroach on their habitat...restrict the people as well as the animals...
and for the record, we do have mountain lions in WNC....and tyhey don't fly spaceships...
Pretty hard to have lion shit without actually having a lionAppaholic wrote:Mountain Lion scat has been located in Massachusets & Virginia....but you are correct, no "official" sightings have been documented....but there are very many unofficial, yet credible sightings throughout the Appalachian range....OL FU wrote:
A lot of my friends swear we do and generally they are pretty credible. If you see one make sure you take a picture cuz all sources I have found (outside of the slightly off base websites and some of my fellow but a little more adventurous hiking buddies) say we don't and that no evidence has been found of one in something like 100 years. I realize there are some pretty desolate areas in Western NC but I'll have to be the empiricist and say what I say about big foot. Until there is evidence other than I saw him, I will remain skeptical
A million dollars per wolf???? WTF, do they shit solid gold bricks???Wedgebuster wrote: The cost of planting 25 Canadian gray wolves in the Lamar Valley in Yellowstone about 15 years ago at the time of their release from pens was $25,000,000. and that was taxpayer money. The cost of removing them will be much higher, and ultimately that will have to be done. And as far as any hope of the reappearance of the native wolf, that possibility was dashed forever as soon as the exotic wolves were released.
Agree...but until they locate a body or have an official sighting to back up the scat being from a mtn lion, it is listed is "undetermined" origin...clenz wrote:Pretty hard to have lion shit without actually having a lionAppaholic wrote:
Mountain Lion scat has been located in Massachusets & Virginia....but you are correct, no "official" sightings have been documented....but there are very many unofficial, yet credible sightings throughout the Appalachian range....
A government operation T, you know we agree on what that means!AZGrizFan wrote:A million dollars per wolf???? WTF, do they shit solid gold bricks???Wedgebuster wrote: The cost of planting 25 Canadian gray wolves in the Lamar Valley in Yellowstone about 15 years ago at the time of their release from pens was $25,000,000. and that was taxpayer money. The cost of removing them will be much higher, and ultimately that will have to be done. And as far as any hope of the reappearance of the native wolf, that possibility was dashed forever as soon as the exotic wolves were released.
How much does it cost to build roads and a water delivery system for the non-native Californians who have also relocated to the same area?Wedgebuster wrote:Not a biologist here, but these here is the facts!
I am certain that there were some wolves around that were indigenous, prior to "re-introduction" of non-native Canadian gray wolves in Yellowstone. This certainty is backed by sightings, of which I had one, and the killing of an indigenous wolf about 17 years ago by a hunter from Worland Wy, Jerry Kysar. Kysar's kill gained national attention because he used it to prove to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service that native wolves did in fact live here. Kysar claimed he thought he was shooting a coyote (legal) at the time.
http://books.google.com/books?id=wp1fZI ... t&resnum=1
Now, that wolf was killed in the Jackson Hole drainage area, not exactly bumped up against the border with Canada like Montana is, and northern Montana already had enough of them thank you very much.
My point is, there is all this effort by well meaning environmentally minded folks to remove non native species of all types and replace them with native species. I even remember about ten years ago the National Park Service went on a helicopter hunting rampage for Rocky Mountain Goats that were squatting on the Olympic National Park because they were "non-native" and they wiped them out.
These Canadian Gray Wolves are not native to Yellowstone National Park or the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem, where are my helicopter gunships?
Epilogue:
The cost of planting 25 Canadian gray wolves in the Lamar Valley in Yellowstone about 15 years ago at the time of their release from pens was $25,000,000. and that was taxpayer money. The cost of removing them will be much higher, and ultimately that will have to be done. And as far as any hope of the reappearance of the native wolf, that possibility was dashed forever as soon as the exotic wolves were released.
Not that I particularly care to read about cat shit and not saying Appa's wrong, but Is it verified cat shit or simply cat shit sightingsclenz wrote:Pretty hard to have lion shit without actually having a lionAppaholic wrote:
Mountain Lion scat has been located in Massachusets & Virginia....but you are correct, no "official" sightings have been documented....but there are very many unofficial, yet credible sightings throughout the Appalachian range....
Same with the Jerry Kysar wolf kill, they blew it off even though that had a body!Appaholic wrote:Agree...but until they locate a body or have an official sighting to back up the scat being from a mtn lion, it is listed is "undetermined" origin...clenz wrote:Pretty hard to have lion shit without actually having a lion
Verified shit from a feline organism.....say, didn't Catamount Man go camping instead dof upstate gathering last weekend?OL FU wrote:Not that I particularly care to read about cat shit and not saying Appa's wrong, but Is it verified cat shit or simply cat shit sightingsclenz wrote:Pretty hard to have lion shit without actually having a lion
They are the "locals" that are in favor of planting non-indigenous wolves here.Appaholic wrote:How much does it cost to build roads and a water delivery system for the non-native Californians who have also relocated to the same area?Wedgebuster wrote:Not a biologist here, but these here is the facts!
I am certain that there were some wolves around that were indigenous, prior to "re-introduction" of non-native Canadian gray wolves in Yellowstone. This certainty is backed by sightings, of which I had one, and the killing of an indigenous wolf about 17 years ago by a hunter from Worland Wy, Jerry Kysar. Kysar's kill gained national attention because he used it to prove to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service that native wolves did in fact live here. Kysar claimed he thought he was shooting a coyote (legal) at the time.
http://books.google.com/books?id=wp1fZI ... t&resnum=1
Now, that wolf was killed in the Jackson Hole drainage area, not exactly bumped up against the border with Canada like Montana is, and northern Montana already had enough of them thank you very much.
My point is, there is all this effort by well meaning environmentally minded folks to remove non native species of all types and replace them with native species. I even remember about ten years ago the National Park Service went on a helicopter hunting rampage for Rocky Mountain Goats that were squatting on the Olympic National Park because they were "non-native" and they wiped them out.
These Canadian Gray Wolves are not native to Yellowstone National Park or the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem, where are my helicopter gunships?
Epilogue:
The cost of planting 25 Canadian gray wolves in the Lamar Valley in Yellowstone about 15 years ago at the time of their release from pens was $25,000,000. and that was taxpayer money. The cost of removing them will be much higher, and ultimately that will have to be done. And as far as any hope of the reappearance of the native wolf, that possibility was dashed forever as soon as the exotic wolves were released.
Appaholic wrote:Verified shit from a feline organism.....say, didn't Catamount Man go camping instead dof upstate gathering last weekend?OL FU wrote:
Not that I particularly care to read about cat shit and not saying Appa's wrong, but Is it verified cat shit or simply cat shit sightings
Now that I think about it maybe I would rather read about real cat shit Wedgebuster wrote:A government operation T, you know we agree on what that means!AZGrizFan wrote:
A million dollars per wolf???? WTF, do they shit solid gold bricks???
So if you establish a "California Harvesting Program" locally, this should alleviate the conerns with non-native wolves as a residual....something to think about....I might even help you with that one....Wedgebuster wrote:They are the "locals" that are in favor of planting non-indigenous wolves here.Appaholic wrote:
How much does it cost to build roads and a water delivery system for the non-native Californians who have also relocated to the same area?
Not fair to the Californians who were mostly pushed out of their state by in-breds from states back east, like Montana and the Carolinas. BTW, cougars have been confirmed in Illinois by road kill, some tagged as far away as North Dakota. They're being pushed out of their habitats by people moving farther out in the country.Appaholic wrote:So if you establish a "California Harvesting Program" locally, this should alleviate the conerns with non-native wolves as a residual....something to think about....I might even help you with that one....Wedgebuster wrote:
They are the "locals" that are in favor of planting non-indigenous wolves here.
Montanans pushed Californians out of their state???houndawg wrote:Not fair to the Californians who were mostly pushed out of their state by in-breds from states back east, like Montana and the Carolinas. BTW, cougars have been confirmed in Illinois by road kill, some tagged as far away as North Dakota. They're being pushed out of their habitats by people moving farther out in the country.Appaholic wrote:
So if you establish a "California Harvesting Program" locally, this should alleviate the conerns with non-native wolves as a residual....something to think about....I might even help you with that one....
Indeed. How does a state with a population of ca. 950,000 "push" Californians out of their state? I demand you share some of that killer green you're smoking, dawg.Grizo406 wrote:Montanans pushed Californians out of their state???houndawg wrote:
Not fair to the Californians who were mostly pushed out of their state by in-breds from states back east, like Montana and the Carolinas. BTW, cougars have been confirmed in Illinois by road kill, some tagged as far away as North Dakota. They're being pushed out of their habitats by people moving farther out in the country.
I know we'd like to push some of 'em back to California!
If they had all stayed in Montana, there would be a couple million people there.WTAG wrote:Indeed. How does a state with a population of ca. 950,000 "push" Californians out of their state? I demand you share some of that killer green you're smoking, dawg.Grizo406 wrote:
Montanans pushed Californians out of their state???
I know we'd like to push some of 'em back to California!
Well, I know at least one person that lives in Az that would like to be back in Montana...either that, or he's more full of shit than I thought he was!dbackjon wrote:If they had all stayed in Montana, there would be a couple million people there.WTAG wrote:
Indeed. How does a state with a population of ca. 950,000 "push" Californians out of their state? I demand you share some of that killer green you're smoking, dawg.
heck, there are tens, if not hundreds of thousands of Montanans here in Arizona.
WTAG wrote:Indeed. How does a state with a population of ca. 950,000 "push" Californians out of their state? I demand you share some of that killer green you're smoking, dawg.Grizo406 wrote:
Montanans pushed Californians out of their state???
I know we'd like to push some of 'em back to California!