Common Sense Gun Control

[UNI88]

Ibanez already provided at least one - assembly.

I was rederring to as an individual.

* referring

Why only as an individual? Why are you parsing your argument?

[GannonFan]

Ibanez already provided at least one - assembly.

I was rederring to as an individual.

How do you assemble as an individual? Isn't the whole meaning of the right of assembly is for individuals to come together and form a larger contingent? I think you're missing the whole point of the right of assembly.

[UNI88]

I was rederring to as an individual.

How do you assemble as an individual? Isn't the whole meaning of the right of assembly is for individuals to come together and form a larger contingent? I think you're missing the whole point of the right of assembly.

BDK, like JSO, frequently tries to define and limit the terms of debate to improve his chance of winning.

[Winterborn]

I thought we learned a lesson in the war on drugs that going after an inanimate objects does not curb peoples behavior.

Feel free to suggest topics or items that help people who need help or support get that support. Otherwise:

Col said it best.

And to be accurate, the 2nd Amendment is not a “law”…it is part of the basic foundation of all our laws…So, I’ll put it less blunt…

Repeal the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution, or figure out how to cure this evil without attacking the legal ownership of an inanimate object that never commits evil acts…

[Ibanez]

You didn't ask me that question. You usually have to pay a fee to peacefully assemble. You can just go and protest outside a school. But many places, for large scale protests or assemblies, require permits and payment. Due Process also isn't free - court fees at a minimum exist.

But that's a straw man argument, IMO. Your position is basically, we are stuck with an 18th Century law so deal with it. The right to own a firearm isn't above another's right to live.

Is the right to own, say, an automobile, not above the right of another to live…we jut had four people killed by a wrong-way driver in northern Texas…and my own 9 year old son was killed by a car…what about his rights?

And to be accurate, the 2nd Amendment is not a “law”…it is part of the basic foundation of all our laws…So, I’ll put it less blunt…

Repeal the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution, or figure out how to cure this evil without attacking the legal ownership of an inanimate object that never commits evil acts…

The right to own an automobile wasn't in the Bill of Rights. Regardless, nobody has the right to infringe the Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness of another individual. We should take care to adjust our laws and if need me amend our constitution, accordingly. Like I said before, it isn't a Appeal or STFU solution. The solution comes from all sides of the problem, the least of which is the tool.

I didn't say 2A was a law. It's a right but it's been constantly abused and has brought tragedy upon tragedy to families. You're so wrapped up in the usual argument that you're assuming you know my position (aside from me stating that I support the 2A).

[Ibanez]

Ibanez already provided at least one - assembly.

I was rederring to as an individual.

That doesn't really matter, you're splitting hairs. There are state laws that say you don't need a permit to protest on the street corner, for example. However, if you want to have a march or a rally, you do need a permit and pay a fee.

[Ibanez]

I was rederring to as an individual.

How do you assemble as an individual? Isn't the whole meaning of the right of assembly is for individuals to come together and form a larger contingent? I think you're missing the whole point of the right of assembly.

I get his meaning. If BDK wants to stand on the street corner and protest Arby's for their new burger addition, he can do that by himself. Or if he wants to stand on the overpass holding a sign that says, "REPENT." He can and most likely won't need a permit or pay anything.

To your point, and since we're basing this off events of the 18th century, it's about a group of people being able to get together and not be molested by the government. So if you want to peacefully assemble, say in front of the US Capital, you need a permit (but I don't think you pay a fee). If you want to peacefully assemble and walk down the street to protest something, most municipalities require both a fee and a permit.

[Skjellyfetti]

These threads always remind me of the classic Onion headline.

'No Way To Prevent This,' Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

[GannonFan]

How do you assemble as an individual? Isn't the whole meaning of the right of assembly is for individuals to come together and form a larger contingent? I think you're missing the whole point of the right of assembly.

I get his meaning. If BDK wants to stand on the street corner and protest Arby's for their new burger addition, he can do that by himself. Or if he wants to stand on the overpass holding a sign that says, "REPENT." He can and most likely won't need a permit or pay anything.

To your point, and since we're basing this off events of the 18th century, it's about a group of people being able to get together and not be molested by the government. So if you want to peacefully assemble, say in front of the US Capital, you need a permit (but I don't think you pay a fee). If you want to peacefully assemble and walk down the street to protest something, most municipalities require both a fee and a permit.

Oh, I know what BDK was referring to, but clearly the right of the people peaceably to assemble (using the actual phrase in the Constitution) has always referred to people (i.e. more than just an individual) gathering together for a purpose. It's always been about more than one person standing on a street corner with a sign.

[Ibanez]

I get his meaning. If BDK wants to stand on the street corner and protest Arby's for their new burger addition, he can do that by himself. Or if he wants to stand on the overpass holding a sign that says, "REPENT." He can and most likely won't need a permit or pay anything.

To your point, and since we're basing this off events of the 18th century, it's about a group of people being able to get together and not be molested by the government. So if you want to peacefully assemble, say in front of the US Capital, you need a permit (but I don't think you pay a fee). If you want to peacefully assemble and walk down the street to protest something, most municipalities require both a fee and a permit.

Oh, I know what BDK was referring to, but clearly the right of the people peaceably to assemble (using the actual phrase in the Constitution) has always referred to people (i.e. more than just an individual) gathering together for a purpose. It's always been about more than one person standing on a street corner with a sign.

I can name another Constitutional Right that requires a permit and money- you have the constitutional right to carry a concealed weapon, as long as you get a permit and pay the fee.

[GannonFan]

Oh, I know what BDK was referring to, but clearly the right of the people peaceably to assemble (using the actual phrase in the Constitution) has always referred to people (i.e. more than just an individual) gathering together for a purpose. It's always been about more than one person standing on a street corner with a sign.

I can name another Constitutional Right that requires a permit and money- you have the constitutional right to carry a concealed weapon, as long as you get a permit and pay the fee.

Really just a restriction on the second amendment, no? Funny, I thought that amendment was absolute, or have been told so by others.

[AZGrizFan]

What other rConstitutional right requires insurance, a permit to exercise it, etc…


Repeal the Second Amendment, or STFU!!!

There are no Constitutional rights that are without restriction. Free speech isn't absolute. Neither is the right to assemble. And on and on. I know you enjoy your pithy "repeal or STFU" but I'd think you're better than that. The second amendment isn't absolute, we already have laws on the books that ban certain weapons (i.e. fully automatic weapons are banned without having to repeal the second amendment). There are already restrictions on all freedoms, the work comes in the nuance to determine what restrictions are needed and how the implementation of those restrictions work, especially with regard to the consequences of those restrictions.

Actually, it IS pretty absolute, but that hasn't stopped Congress from violating it to to tune of about 10,000 laws already that infringe.

If I thought for even a SECOND that the US Government wouldn't use a national registry to later confiscate those same weapons, I might support it. But we've already seen how the government can and will abuse data collected on law abiding citizens.

No thanks on any national registry.

[Ibanez]

I can name another Constitutional Right that requires a permit and money- you have the constitutional right to carry a concealed weapon, as long as you get a permit and pay the fee.

Really just a restriction on the second amendment, no? Funny, I thought that amendment was absolute, or have been told so by others.

Quite interesting, indeed.

[AZGrizFan]

Oh, I know what BDK was referring to, but clearly the right of the people peaceably to assemble (using the actual phrase in the Constitution) has always referred to people (i.e. more than just an individual) gathering together for a purpose. It's always been about more than one person standing on a street corner with a sign.

I can name another Constitutional Right that requires a permit and money- you have the constitutional right to carry a concealed weapon, as long as you get a permit and pay the fee.

carrying it concealed isn't a constitutional right.

Be better.

[Ibanez]

I can name another Constitutional Right that requires a permit and money- you have the constitutional right to carry a concealed weapon, as long as you get a permit and pay the fee.

carrying it concealed isn't a constitutional right.

Be better.

But is it not a restriction on what you can do with your weapon? That seems to go against the freedom of owning a weapon if you're told you can have it but you can't carry it into WalMart w/o a permit.

We have restrictions on what we can do with our words and abilities to get together.

[AZGrizFan]

carrying it concealed isn't a constitutional right.

Be better.

But is it not a restriction on what you can do with your weapon? That seems to go against the freedom of owning a weapon if you're told you can have it but you can't carry it into WalMart w/o a permit.

We have restrictions on what we can do with our words and abilities to get together.

Yes, it's a restriction. One of about 10,000 that infringe on our constitutional right. And yet, short of banning guns and beheading anyone caught with one, there's no magic solution that's going to solve the school shooting problem....they'd rather focus on a symptom of the problem than the problem itself. Guns have been around for hundreds of years. School shootings didn't exist during my time in HS and we had MULTIPLE guns on campus at any given time. This is a recent (relatively) phenomenon that stems from a number of causes...the "gun" is just the final act of a desperate person. They SHOULD be asking "why is that person the way they are?" Instead, it's more red meat for the mouthbreathers on both sides of the aisle.

[Ibanez]

But is it not a restriction on what you can do with your weapon? That seems to go against the freedom of owning a weapon if you're told you can have it but you can't carry it into WalMart w/o a permit.

We have restrictions on what we can do with our words and abilities to get together.

Yes, it's a restriction. One of about 10,000 that infringe on our constitutional right. And yet, short of banning guns and beheading anyone caught with one, there's no magic solution that's going to solve the school shooting problem....they'd rather focus on a symptom of the problem than the problem itself. Guns have been around for hundreds of years. School shootings didn't exist during my time in HS and we had MULTIPLE guns on campus at any given time. This is a recent (relatively) phenomenon that stems from a number of causes...the "gun" is just the final act of a desperate person. They SHOULD be asking "why is that person the way they are?" Instead, it's more red meat for the mouthbreathers on both sides of the aisle.

Welcome to my argument from hours ago. It's not the guns fault. It's access to weapons, availability to weapons, checks on people who shouldn't own them, mental health checks, etc... There is any number of solutions that don't involve a ban. Same goes with children that get a hold of their fathers gun and accidentally shoot themselves or someone.

There's a breakdown in the process and we can't even be bothered to argue the solutions.

[AZGrizFan]

Yes, it's a restriction. One of about 10,000 that infringe on our constitutional right. And yet, short of banning guns and beheading anyone caught with one, there's no magic solution that's going to solve the school shooting problem....they'd rather focus on a symptom of the problem than the problem itself. Guns have been around for hundreds of years. School shootings didn't exist during my time in HS and we had MULTIPLE guns on campus at any given time. This is a recent (relatively) phenomenon that stems from a number of causes...the "gun" is just the final act of a desperate person. They SHOULD be asking "why is that person the way they are?" Instead, it's more red meat for the mouthbreathers on both sides of the aisle.

Welcome to my argument from hours ago. It's not the guns fault. It's access to weapons, availability to weapons, checks on people who shouldn't own them, mental health checks, etc... There is any number of solutions that don't involve a ban. Same goes with children that get a hold of their fathers gun and accidentally shoot themselves or someone.

There's a breakdown in the process and we can't even be bothered to argue the solutions.

NO, it's NOT. In Montana in my youth, literally EVERYONE over the age of 12 had a weapon. No one had a gun safe. They sat in a gun rack on the wall, or in the back window of your truck. Background checks didn't exist. Mental health checks didn't exist.

School shootings didn't exist.

WTF changed? People's inability to cope with society?

And they're not arguing "solutions". They're arguing SYMPTOMS.

[Winterborn]

Welcome to my argument from hours ago. It's not the guns fault. It's access to weapons, availability to weapons, checks on people who shouldn't own them, mental health checks, etc... There is any number of solutions that don't involve a ban. Same goes with children that get a hold of their fathers gun and accidentally shoot themselves or someone.

There's a breakdown in the process and we can't even be bothered to argue the solutions.

NO, it's NOT. In Montana in my youth, literally EVERYONE over the age of 12 had a weapon. No one had a gun safe. They sat in a gun rack on the wall, or in the back window of your truck. Background checks didn't exist. Mental health checks didn't exist.

School shootings didn't exist.

WTF changed? People's inability to cope with society?

And they're not arguing "solutions". They're arguing SYMPTOMS.

Ditto. Hell I had friends tell me stories of going deer/duck hunting during recess or if they had an open period during the afternoon. Their rifle or shotgun was kept in their vehicle or school locker.

I have shot my .22 off of my school desk during class before. Then again I was home schooled at the time and if the weather was nice I was doing homework on the porch when Mr. Squirrel decided to find out if there was a squirrel afterlife.

[Ibanez]

Welcome to my argument from hours ago. It's not the guns fault. It's access to weapons, availability to weapons, checks on people who shouldn't own them, mental health checks, etc... There is any number of solutions that don't involve a ban. Same goes with children that get a hold of their fathers gun and accidentally shoot themselves or someone.

There's a breakdown in the process and we can't even be bothered to argue the solutions.

NO, it's NOT. In Montana in my youth, literally EVERYONE over the age of 12 had a weapon. No one had a gun safe. They sat in a gun rack on the wall, or in the back window of your truck. Background checks didn't exist. Mental health checks didn't exist.

School shootings didn't exist.

WTF changed? People's inability to cope with society?

And they're not arguing "solutions". They're arguing SYMPTOMS.

School shootings didn't exist in the 1960s and 70s? I'm pretty sure some people at Texas A&M might disagree with you. School shootings and such have been around for long time.

Good for Montana. Something's changed and isn't a gun. I don't know what it is...rap music? GWAR? But you are not going to convince me that the availability of a weapon for someone with a mental illness isn't an issue.

[AZGrizFan]

NO, it's NOT. In Montana in my youth, literally EVERYONE over the age of 12 had a weapon. No one had a gun safe. They sat in a gun rack on the wall, or in the back window of your truck. Background checks didn't exist. Mental health checks didn't exist.

School shootings didn't exist.

WTF changed? People's inability to cope with society?

And they're not arguing "solutions". They're arguing SYMPTOMS.

Ditto. Hell I had friends tell me stories of going deer/duck hunting during recess or if they had an open period during the afternoon. Their rifle or shotgun was kept in their vehicle or school locker.

I have shot my .22 off of my school desk during class before. Then again I was home schooled at the time and if the weather was nice I was doing homework on the porch when Mr. Squirrel decided to find out if there was a squirrel afterlife.

We absolutely hunted before school, lunch hour, and after school during deer season. If you got one, you just didn't come back (or you came back and showed it off to your friends!). COUNTLESS rifles in truck windows....

[AZGrizFan]

NO, it's NOT. In Montana in my youth, literally EVERYONE over the age of 12 had a weapon. No one had a gun safe. They sat in a gun rack on the wall, or in the back window of your truck. Background checks didn't exist. Mental health checks didn't exist.

School shootings didn't exist.

WTF changed? People's inability to cope with society?

And they're not arguing "solutions". They're arguing SYMPTOMS.

School shootings didn't exist in the 1960s and 70s? I'm pretty sure some people at Texas A&M might disagree with you. School shootings and such have been around for long time.

Good for Montana. Something's changed and isn't a gun. I don't know what it is...rap music? GWAR? But you are not going to convince me that the availability of a weapon for someone with a mental illness isn't an issue.

Not like they do now. Come on, man. No need to be disingenuous.

[Ibanez]

School shootings didn't exist in the 1960s and 70s? I'm pretty sure some people at Texas A&M might disagree with you. School shootings and such have been around for long time.

Good for Montana. Something's changed and isn't a gun. I don't know what it is...rap music? GWAR? But you are not going to convince me that the availability of a weapon for someone with a mental illness isn't an issue.

Not like they do now. Come on, man. No need to be disingenuous.

Now you're qualifying it. Kids and adults have been shooting people at schools for a long time (not counting accidents or events like Kent State), even in your school days. Even 1 is too many. It's a tragedy that we even have to talk about how there are more shootings today than there were 50 years ago in our schools.

And the root cause is something within our society. Something is rotten. I don't know what it is but It's awful.

[AZGrizFan]

Not like they do now. Come on, man. No need to be disingenuous.

Now you're qualifying it. Kids and adults have been shooting people at schools for a long time (not counting accidents or events like Kent State), even in your school days. Even 1 is too many. It's a tragedy that we even have to talk about how there are more shootings today than there were 50 years ago in our schools.

And the root cause is something within our society. Something is rotten. I don't know what it is but It's awful.

So you have a ZERO COVID-like expectation?

Prepare to be disappointed repeatedly, then, regardless of our benevolent politicians' "solutions". You can't put that toothpaste back in the tube, bro.

[Ibanez]

Now you're qualifying it. Kids and adults have been shooting people at schools for a long time (not counting accidents or events like Kent State), even in your school days. Even 1 is too many. It's a tragedy that we even have to talk about how there are more shootings today than there were 50 years ago in our schools.

And the root cause is something within our society. Something is rotten. I don't know what it is but It's awful.

So you have a ZERO COVID-like expectation?

Prepare to be disappointed repeatedly, then, regardless of our benevolent politicians' "solutions". You can't put that toothpaste back in the tube, bro.

Expectation of what? I have no expectations that our "leaders" will do anything beneficial. They aren't statesmen and women. They're elected grifters. I expect nothing out of them and yet am constantly disappointed.