The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by ∞∞∞ »

Col Hogan wrote:All Woodward’s info is from anonymous sources...each person alleged to have made a statement have strongly rejected Woodward...

And Trip, you don’t care about the Constitution...you have described it as “just a social contract”
Woodward has tapes on every single person he interviewed, so it's verifiable if push comes to shove.

And yes I care little for the Constitution as it stands, but I'm open about the fact. I'm just making a point that things like checks and balances theoretically exist to combat Trump, but people who act like they care about the Constitution care as much as me when it comes to actually implementing it. :nod:
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by Col Hogan »

∞∞∞ wrote:
Col Hogan wrote:All Woodward’s info is from anonymous sources...each person alleged to have made a statement have strongly rejected Woodward...

And Trip, you don’t care about the Constitution...you have described it as “just a social contract”
Woodward has tapes on every single person he interviewed, so it's verifiable if push comes to shove.

And yes I care little for the Constitution as it stands, but I'm open about the fact. I'm just making a point that things like checks and balances theoretically exist to combat Trump, but people who act like they care about the Constitution care as much as me when it comes to actually implementing it. :nod:
Woodward has tapes of the sources making their claims...he does not have tapes of The people actually making the statements the anonymous sources claim they made...

Big difference... :coffee:
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by AZGrizFan »

∞∞∞ wrote:
Pwns wrote:So Bob Woodward has come out with a book based on some inside stories within the White House, and apparently John Brennan said some bad things about Trump and Richard Mattis said Trump has a "sixth-grade" understanding of things. Which means they'll now be denying they said those things...

My only big fear with Trump is getting to a point where no one remotely qualified is willing to take the most important cabinet posts, which is why I wish these journalists hacks don't spill the beans on everything the people in the administration are doing to put training wheels on Trump.
Journalists are just doing their job.

Plus don't you Constitutional types have some protection against this? Like a checks and balance system or something. Oh yeah I forget, it's not just me that cares little for the Constitution. :coffee:
Protections against what? That a moron is elected president? He's not the first, and he most certainly won't be the last. No SANE person would possibly want that job in this day and age. And yes, the checks and balances ARE in place. They're called the Constitution, Congress, the House of Representatives, and the Supreme Court and our system of government. One of the checks USED to be the media, but they are now so agenda driven as to be almost comical.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by Skjellyfetti »

The Times today is taking the rare step of publishing an anonymous Op-Ed essay. We have done so at the request of the author, a senior official in the Trump administration whose identity is known to us and whose job would be jeopardized by its disclosure. We believe publishing this essay anonymously is the only way to deliver an important perspective to our readers.

President Trump is facing a test to his presidency unlike any faced by a modern American leader.

It’s not just that the special counsel looms large. Or that the country is bitterly divided over Mr. Trump’s leadership. Or even that his party might well lose the House to an opposition hellbent on his downfall.

The dilemma — which he does not fully grasp — is that many of the senior officials in his own administration are working diligently from within to frustrate parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations.

I would know. I am one of them.

To be clear, ours is not the popular “resistance” of the left. We want the administration to succeed and think that many of its policies have already made America safer and more prosperous.

But we believe our first duty is to this country, and the president continues to act in a manner that is detrimental to the health of our republic.

That is why many Trump appointees have vowed to do what we can to preserve our democratic institutions while thwarting Mr. Trump’s more misguided impulses until he is out of office.

The root of the problem is the president’s amorality. Anyone who works with him knows he is not moored to any discernible first principles that guide his decision making.

Although he was elected as a Republican, the president shows little affinity for ideals long espoused by conservatives: free minds, free markets and free people. At best, he has invoked these ideals in scripted settings. At worst, he has attacked them outright.

In addition to his mass-marketing of the notion that the press is the “enemy of the people,” President Trump’s impulses are generally anti-trade and anti-democratic.

Don’t get me wrong. There are bright spots that the near-ceaseless negative coverage of the administration fails to capture: effective deregulation, historic tax reform, a more robust military and more.

But these successes have come despite — not because of — the president’s leadership style, which is impetuous, adversarial, petty and ineffective.

From the White House to executive branch departments and agencies, senior officials will privately admit their daily disbelief at the commander in chief’s comments and actions. Most are working to insulate their operations from his whims.

Meetings with him veer off topic and off the rails, he engages in repetitive rants, and his impulsiveness results in half-baked, ill-informed and occasionally reckless decisions that have to be walked back.

“There is literally no telling whether he might change his mind from one minute to the next,” a top official complained to me recently, exasperated by an Oval Office meeting at which the president flip-flopped on a major policy decision he’d made only a week earlier.

The erratic behavior would be more concerning if it weren’t for unsung heroes in and around the White House. Some of his aides have been cast as villains by the media. But in private, they have gone to great lengths to keep bad decisions contained to the West Wing, though they are clearly not always successful.

It may be cold comfort in this chaotic era, but Americans should know that there are adults in the room. We fully recognize what is happening. And we are trying to do what’s right even when Donald Trump won’t.

The result is a two-track presidency.

Take foreign policy: In public and in private, President Trump shows a preference for autocrats and dictators, such as President Vladimir Putin of Russia and North Korea’s leader, Kim Jong-un, and displays little genuine appreciation for the ties that bind us to allied, like-minded nations.

Astute observers have noted, though, that the rest of the administration is operating on another track, one where countries like Russia are called out for meddling and punished accordingly, and where allies around the world are engaged as peers rather than ridiculed as rivals.

On Russia, for instance, the president was reluctant to expel so many of Mr. Putin’s spies as punishment for the poisoning of a former Russian spy in Britain. He complained for weeks about senior staff members letting him get boxed into further confrontation with Russia, and he expressed frustration that the United States continued to impose sanctions on the country for its malign behavior. But his national security team knew better — such actions had to be taken, to hold Moscow accountable.

This isn’t the work of the so-called deep state. It’s the work of the steady state.

Given the instability many witnessed, there were early whispers within the cabinet of invoking the 25th Amendment, which would start a complex process for removing the president. But no one wanted to precipitate a constitutional crisis. So we will do what we can to steer the administration in the right direction until — one way or another — it’s over.

The bigger concern is not what Mr. Trump has done to the presidency but rather what we as a nation have allowed him to do to us. We have sunk low with him and allowed our discourse to be stripped of civility.

Senator John McCain put it best in his farewell letter. All Americans should heed his words and break free of the tribalism trap, with the high aim of uniting through our shared values and love of this great nation.

We may no longer have Senator McCain. But we will always have his example — a lodestar for restoring honor to public life and our national dialogue. Mr. Trump may fear such honorable men, but we should revere them.

There is a quiet resistance within the administration of people choosing to put country first. But the real difference will be made by everyday citizens rising above politics, reaching across the aisle and resolving to shed the labels in favor of a single one: Americans.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/opin ... tance.html
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by ∞∞∞ »

:shock:

Wow. If that doesn't speak volumes...
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by JohnStOnge »

AZGrizFan wrote:That a moron is elected president? He's not the first, and he most certainly won't be the last. No SANE person would possibly want that job in this day and age. And yes, the checks and balances ARE in place. They're called the Constitution, Congress, the House of Representatives, and the Supreme Court and our system of government. One of the checks USED to be the media, but they are now so agenda driven as to be almost comical.
We haven't had a situation this bad with respect to the person in the President's position before. I don't think there's any comparison. At least not in my lifetime. The other Presidents of my lifetime were at least grown ups. And, even as compared to Nixon and Clinton, Trump is way over the top in terms of repeated and frequent outright lying. Oh...and I don't think any of the other ones had serious emotional stability and maturity problems like he does.

Congress is NOT functioning as a check right now. It's performance in that regard is atrocious. The courts are too an extent. And all the media are doing is trying to get the truth out. What's happening with the media was predictable because Trump's background as well as his current behavior create a target rich environment. What was not predictable is that Trump would have a Zombie army that is largely impervious to the truth.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by JohnStOnge »

I got a kick out of what Bob Corker had to say about the op ed. I wish I could find the video. But I'll have to try to come close to the quote. It went something like this:

"I don't think there was anything new in it. We all understood from the beginning that that was the situation."

You'd have to actually see him say it in his deadpan way to get the full impact.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by CAA Flagship »

JohnStOnge wrote:
I got a kick out of what Bob Corker had to say about the op ed. I wish I could find the video. But I'll have to try to come close to the quote. It went something like this:

"I don't think there was anything new in it. We all understood from the beginning that that was the situation."

You'd have to actually see him say it in his deadpan way to get the full impact.
Yup. Nothing new to anyone.

But Trump is somehow doing what almost every candidate wouldn't dare to do. And that is the dirty work of fixing America's economic competitiveness. I'll take those actions, even if it means coming with a side of the carnival clown antics of Trump, every time. THE ECONOMY, JSO, THE ECONOMY. Keep your eye on the ball and stop watching the people in the stands.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by ∞∞∞ »

Can we all please agree - like or dislike Trump - that a shadow government of un-elected officials shouldn't be secretly running an entire branch of the government?

Is this something that we can unite around and actually get solved ASAP as fellow Americans?
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by AZGrizFan »

∞∞∞ wrote:Can we all please agree - like or dislike Trump - that a shadow government of un-elected officials shouldn't be secretly running an entire branch of the government?

Is this something that we can unite around and actually get solved ASAP as fellow Americans?
So, there’s supposedly a group of adults within the administration keeping him contained (you know, checks and balances and all that), limiting the damage and promoting the successes, and you now want to bitch about THAT? Is it ideal? No. Is it unprecedented? Nope. You know, there’s a theory that a very similar situation occurred during the last couple years of Reagan’s 2nd term as well.

Oh, and for the record, I think there’s a better than 50/50 chance Trump doesn’t run for reelection, for many of the reasons stated in the “anonymous” article.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by ∞∞∞ »

AZGrizFan wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote:Can we all please agree - like or dislike Trump - that a shadow government of un-elected officials shouldn't be secretly running an entire branch of the government?

Is this something that we can unite around and actually get solved ASAP as fellow Americans?
So, there’s supposedly a group of adults within the administration keeping him contained (you know, checks and balances and all that), limiting the damage and promoting the successes, and you now want to bitch about THAT? Is it ideal? No. Is it unprecedented? Nope. You know, there’s a theory that a very similar situation occurred during the last couple years of Reagan’s 2nd term as well.

Oh, and for the record, I think there’s a better than 50/50 chance Trump doesn’t run for reelection, for many of the reasons stated in the “anonymous” article.
Shows me how much you give a shit about the Constitution when push comes to shove. Instead of saying there's an entire Amendment they could use to remove the President, you brush off rogue elements like it's nothing. I'll at least be writing to my Senators and Reps to investigate this and I hope you do as well.

The precedent being set is truly disturbing and dangerous. Elements in the White House have essentially deemed themselves more important than tens of millions of voters.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by Skjellyfetti »

CAA Flagship wrote: Yup. Nothing new to anyone.
A Senior Administration official writing an op-ed saying the cabinet has discussed the 25th Amendment is pretty new.

We might have assumed as much... but, it's pretty unprecedented (not even for just this President).




Who do y'all think wrote it? Early money on Pence or Hassett.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by AZGrizFan »

∞∞∞ wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
So, there’s supposedly a group of adults within the administration keeping him contained (you know, checks and balances and all that), limiting the damage and promoting the successes, and you now want to bitch about THAT? Is it ideal? No. Is it unprecedented? Nope. You know, there’s a theory that a very similar situation occurred during the last couple years of Reagan’s 2nd term as well.

Oh, and for the record, I think there’s a better than 50/50 chance Trump doesn’t run for reelection, for many of the reasons stated in the “anonymous” article.
Shows me how much you give a shit about the Constitution when push comes to shove. Instead of saying there's an entire Amendment they could use to remove the President, you brush off rogue elements like it's nothing. I'll at least be writing to my Senators and Reps to investigate this and I hope you do as well.

The precedent being set is truly disturbing and dangerous. Elements in the White House have essentially deemed themselves more important than tens of millions of voters.
I’d have ZERO problem with them (or anyone) attempting to invoke the amendment. But, as was stated in the article, they don’t appear to have the cajones. In fact, there’s a large part of me that would laugh my ASS off watching liberal heads explode with PENCE as their president for the next two years.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by Skjellyfetti »

I've said it before - but, even though Pence would be more effective getting a shitty Conk agenda rammed through - I'd rather have him.

Trump will do (and is doing) more long term damage that is beyond the usual liberal - conservative pendulum.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by BDKJMU »

Skjellyfetti wrote:
The Times today is taking the rare step of publishing an anonymous Op-Ed essay. We have done so at the request of the author, a senior official in the Trump administration whose identity is known to us and whose job would be jeopardized by its disclosure. We believe publishing this essay anonymously is the only way to deliver an important perspective to our readers.

President Trump is facing a test to his presidency unlike any faced by a modern American leader.

It’s not just that the special counsel looms large. Or that the country is bitterly divided over Mr. Trump’s leadership. Or even that his party might well lose the House to an opposition hellbent on his downfall.

The dilemma — which he does not fully grasp — is that many of the senior officials in his own administration are working diligently from within to frustrate parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations.

I would know. I am one of them.

To be clear, ours is not the popular “resistance” of the left. We want the administration to succeed and think that many of its policies have already made America safer and more prosperous.

But we believe our first duty is to this country, and the president continues to act in a manner that is detrimental to the health of our republic.

That is why many Trump appointees have vowed to do what we can to preserve our democratic institutions while thwarting Mr. Trump’s more misguided impulses until he is out of office.

The root of the problem is the president’s amorality. Anyone who works with him knows he is not moored to any discernible first principles that guide his decision making.

Although he was elected as a Republican, the president shows little affinity for ideals long espoused by conservatives: free minds, free markets and free people. At best, he has invoked these ideals in scripted settings. At worst, he has attacked them outright.

In addition to his mass-marketing of the notion that the press is the “enemy of the people,” President Trump’s impulses are generally anti-trade and anti-democratic.

Don’t get me wrong. There are bright spots that the near-ceaseless negative coverage of the administration fails to capture: effective deregulation, historic tax reform, a more robust military and more.

But these successes have come despite — not because of — the president’s leadership style, which is impetuous, adversarial, petty and ineffective.

From the White House to executive branch departments and agencies, senior officials will privately admit their daily disbelief at the commander in chief’s comments and actions. Most are working to insulate their operations from his whims.

Meetings with him veer off topic and off the rails, he engages in repetitive rants, and his impulsiveness results in half-baked, ill-informed and occasionally reckless decisions that have to be walked back.

“There is literally no telling whether he might change his mind from one minute to the next,” a top official complained to me recently, exasperated by an Oval Office meeting at which the president flip-flopped on a major policy decision he’d made only a week earlier.

The erratic behavior would be more concerning if it weren’t for unsung heroes in and around the White House. Some of his aides have been cast as villains by the media. But in private, they have gone to great lengths to keep bad decisions contained to the West Wing, though they are clearly not always successful.

It may be cold comfort in this chaotic era, but Americans should know that there are adults in the room. We fully recognize what is happening. And we are trying to do what’s right even when Donald Trump won’t.

The result is a two-track presidency.

Take foreign policy: In public and in private, President Trump shows a preference for autocrats and dictators, such as President Vladimir Putin of Russia and North Korea’s leader, Kim Jong-un, and displays little genuine appreciation for the ties that bind us to allied, like-minded nations.

Astute observers have noted, though, that the rest of the administration is operating on another track, one where countries like Russia are called out for meddling and punished accordingly, and where allies around the world are engaged as peers rather than ridiculed as rivals.

On Russia, for instance, the president was reluctant to expel so many of Mr. Putin’s spies as punishment for the poisoning of a former Russian spy in Britain. He complained for weeks about senior staff members letting him get boxed into further confrontation with Russia, and he expressed frustration that the United States continued to impose sanctions on the country for its malign behavior. But his national security team knew better — such actions had to be taken, to hold Moscow accountable.

This isn’t the work of the so-called deep state. It’s the work of the steady state.

Given the instability many witnessed, there were early whispers within the cabinet of invoking the 25th Amendment, which would start a complex process for removing the president. But no one wanted to precipitate a constitutional crisis. So we will do what we can to steer the administration in the right direction until — one way or another — it’s over.

The bigger concern is not what Mr. Trump has done to the presidency but rather what we as a nation have allowed him to do to us. We have sunk low with him and allowed our discourse to be stripped of civility.

Senator John McCain put it best in his farewell letter. All Americans should heed his words and break free of the tribalism trap, with the high aim of uniting through our shared values and love of this great nation.

We may no longer have Senator McCain. But we will always have his example — a lodestar for restoring honor to public life and our national dialogue. Mr. Trump may fear such honorable men, but we should revere them.

There is a quiet resistance within the administration of people choosing to put country first. But the real difference will be made by everyday citizens rising above politics, reaching across the aisle and resolving to shed the labels in favor of a single one: Americans.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/opin ... tance.html
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by AZGrizFan »

Skjellyfetti wrote:I've said it before - but, even though Pence would be more effective getting a shitty Conk agenda rammed through - I'd rather have him.

Trump will do (and is doing) more long term damage that is beyond the usual liberal - conservative pendulum.
I think the damage Trump is doing is outweighed by the things he’s actuallly accomplished. And that damage is superficial and easily reversed when a more normal person retakes the position...whether that’s Pence or someone else.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by CAA Flagship »

AZGrizFan wrote:
Skjellyfetti wrote:I've said it before - but, even though Pence would be more effective getting a shitty Conk agenda rammed through - I'd rather have him.

Trump will do (and is doing) more long term damage that is beyond the usual liberal - conservative pendulum.
I think the damage Trump is doing is outweighed by the things he’s actuallly accomplished. And that damage is superficial and easily reversed when a more normal person retakes the position...whether that’s Pence or someone else.
Abso-freaking-lutely. Way too many people here have jobs that are unaffected by the economy. It's a statistical anomaly, I tell ya. :lol:
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by CAA Flagship »

Skjellyfetti wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote: Yup. Nothing new to anyone.
A Senior Administration official writing an op-ed saying the cabinet has discussed the 25th Amendment is pretty new.

We might have assumed as much... but, it's pretty unprecedented (not even for just this President).




Who do y'all think wrote it? Early money on Pence or Hassett.
Hassett? What's your theory on him?

I can't see this being related to the economy. It sounds more like related to the GOP (i.e. his hurting the mid-terms)
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by Ibanez »

Skjellyfetti wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote: Yup. Nothing new to anyone.
A Senior Administration official writing an op-ed saying the cabinet has discussed the 25th Amendment is pretty new.

We might have assumed as much... but, it's pretty unprecedented (not even for just this President).




Who do y'all think wrote it? Early money on Pence or Hassett.
Pence? You think he’s got the balls for this? I don’t. I think he’s more clever and expects to be the presumptive nominee in 2020. I don’t see Trump running again, I seriously don’t.

Sessions has motive, surely. He’s been whipped so often. But I’m not sure if he has the guts to do this.

I’d like to hear your theory on Hassett.


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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by AZGrizFan »

My money is on some mid-level stringer for the Times who accidentally put down on paper his wet dream about the Trump administration.
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Post by Skjellyfetti »

Ibanez wrote:
Skjellyfetti wrote:
A Senior Administration official writing an op-ed saying the cabinet has discussed the 25th Amendment is pretty new.

We might have assumed as much... but, it's pretty unprecedented (not even for just this President).




Who do y'all think wrote it? Early money on Pence or Hassett.
Pence? You think he’s got the balls for this? I don’t. I think he’s more clever and expects to be the presumptive nominee in 2020. I don’t see Trump running again, I seriously don’t.

Sessions has motive, surely. He’s been whipped so often. But I’m not sure if he has the guts to do this.

I’d like to hear your theory on Hassett.


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On Pence: I think an anonymous oped does not require great testicular fortitude. I do think Pence has the most to potentially gain from this. It positions the person, in the event of Trump's downfall or decision not to run, as the "adult" responsible for the positives of Trump's term and fighting against its more preposterous parts. Also, the "lodestone" which Pence seems to like.... that could just be to throw off the scent, though.

Hassett is a dark horse. There are probably lots of other people more likely. A lot of people think this comes in the wake of the Woodword book - but, I think it is more than likely in the wake of McCain's memorial. Whoever wrote it seems to have a connection to McCain - and, Hassett has the closest in the White House.

But, just spitballin. :D
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by GannonFan »

I don't know, there's not really anything specific in this op-ed that would prove it's even an insider. Let's be honest, anybody with a pulse on current events and a decent ability to write could have written this. Does the NYT actually know who wrote this or is this anonymous to them as well?
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by AZGrizFan »

GannonFan wrote:I don't know, there's not really anything specific in this op-ed that would prove it's even an insider. Let's be honest, anybody with a pulse on current events and a decent ability to write could have written this. Does the NYT actually know who wrote this or is this anonymous to them as well?
Their editorial dept says the identity of the writer is known to them.

I agree completely with your detailed, thorough analysis, however. I'm sticking with my "Times staffer" guess until proven otherwise.
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Re: The Official

Post by AZGrizFan »

Skjellyfetti wrote:
Ibanez wrote: Pence? You think he’s got the balls for this? I don’t. I think he’s more clever and expects to be the presumptive nominee in 2020. I don’t see Trump running again, I seriously don’t.

Sessions has motive, surely. He’s been whipped so often. But I’m not sure if he has the guts to do this.

I’d like to hear your theory on Hassett.


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On Pence: I think an anonymous oped does not require great testicular fortitude. I do think Pence has the most to potentially gain from this. It positions the person, in the event of Trump's downfall or decision not to run, as the "adult" responsible for the positives of Trump's term and fighting against its more preposterous parts. Also, the "lodestone" which Pence seems to like.... that could just be to throw off the scent, though.

Hassett is a dark horse. There are probably lots of other people more likely. A lot of people think this comes in the wake of the Woodword book - but, I think it is more than likely in the wake of McCain's memorial. Whoever wrote it seems to have a connection to McCain - and, Hassett has the closest in the White House.

But, just spitballin. :D
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by JohnStOnge »

CAA Flagship wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
I got a kick out of what Bob Corker had to say about the op ed. I wish I could find the video. But I'll have to try to come close to the quote. It went something like this:

"I don't think there was anything new in it. We all understood from the beginning that that was the situation."

You'd have to actually see him say it in his deadpan way to get the full impact.
Yup. Nothing new to anyone.

But Trump is somehow doing what almost every candidate wouldn't dare to do. And that is the dirty work of fixing America's economic competitiveness. I'll take those actions, even if it means coming with a side of the carnival clown antics of Trump, every time. THE ECONOMY, JSO, THE ECONOMY. Keep your eye on the ball and stop watching the people in the stands.
Dude, he's not fixing anything. Our economic competitiveness isn't any better now than it was before he took office and there's a good chance he's about to really screw things up now that he's gotten around to his protectionist crap. The economy was good before he took office. There hasn't been any great American turnaround.

What he's doing with respect to people like you is the same thing he did when he brought a bunch of investors out to convince them that one of his projects was making progress. He told construction guys to move dirt around and look busy so he could fool the investors. The idea that America was "not Great" and now he's made it "Great again" is sheer nonsense.

We'd be in pretty much the same place with respect to the economy now with Hillary as President. Only thing is we probably wouldn't have to worry about her really screwing things up with protectionist nonsense like we have to worry about him doing that.
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