Bin Laden Dead

[89Hen]

From the looks of it, there's a good chance it will be re-bunked.

Don't think so.

[DJH]

The intelligence community and the SEALs who actually carried this out deserve 99.99% of the recognition.

The intelligence community that couldn't find him for ten effing years? Please.

Are you fucking kidding me? This isn't you playing Call of Duty on Xbox. This is the real world.

[BDKJMU]

The Pakis got some serious splainin to do seeing as how this compound was practically next door to a Paki military complex. I have a hard time believing the Paki military didn't know Osama was hiding there.

Edit: oops

[TwinTownBisonFan]

The Pakis got some serious splainin to do seeing as how this compound was practically next door to a Paki military complex. I have a hard time believing the Paki military didn't know Osama was hiding there.

fify -

It's a rare day indeed when you and I agree on anything... but I agree 100%... we long suspected this to be the case... now the evidence is laid bare...

[Grizalltheway]

The Pakis got some serious splainin to do seeing as how this compound was practically next door to a Paki military complex. I have a hard time believing the Paki military didn't know Obama was hiding there.

[GannonFan]

It isn't as simple as "We think we know where he is...BOMB IT"

The fact they have been trying to verify this information for 9 months tells you how much work has gone into this over the last 8 years or so.

the difference, i suspect... is having a CiC who is willing to be patient, let the facts develop, pull the string carefully, let the CIA do what it does best... and not get trigger happy and go off half cocked. the other difference appears to be Obama, Panetta, et. al's decision to not trust the Pakistanis with the intel... sort of tells us what we already knew about sieve that is the ISI in Pakistan.

To be honest, I don't think it really mattered much who was in office - I think Obama acted just like Bush or Clinton would've done once they got the information. From all accounts, this operation was something like at least 4 years in the making. From interrogation (and allusions are it came from Gitmo - ironic for sure) we found out about a courier. It took another two years to find the guy and start following his patterns. And it only just happened in the past year that we could find the house and starting deducing that bin Laden was really there. Plus you have to figure there have been plenty of changes in progress over the past 10 years in the intelligence agency - it's not just the CIA out there. Obama gets the credit because he was here when it happened and he green lit it and saw the culmination of years of effort, but this is a victory for all Americans and for anyone who's been involved in the process of improving our ability to gather, collect, process, and act on intelligence.

[Wedgebuster]

[TwinTownBisonFan]

I 100% believe Osama has been killed, but the WH should relase a GD photo. In July 2003 the Bush admin had released photographs of Saddam Hussein’s dead sons Uday and Qusay to prove they were dead-ay. And as I recall, one took a round (or schrapnel) in the head. Need to do the same thing here. RELEASE THE PHOTOS!

I don't know that I agree with that. Thusfar the US has maintained a dignified, even humble approach to this. A stern resolution, but a seeming desire to not gloat or flaunt or revel. (despite a few hundred college kids) To release, right now, the photos would be to my mind, unseemly. Wait awhile - when enough time has passed, then perhaps. To do such a thing now would undermine everything we are hoping this will help accomplish.

[GannonFan]

The intelligence community and the SEALs who actually carried this out deserve 99.99% of the recognition.

The intelligence community that couldn't find him for ten effing years? Please.

They hadn't heard, apparently, of your theory that all you have to do is really, really want to do something in order to make it so. Maybe they just figured it out and really decided to get him this time.

[Wedgebuster]

[AZGrizFan]

the difference, i suspect... is having a CiC who is willing to be patient, let the facts develop, pull the string carefully, let the CIA do what it does best... and not get trigger happy and go off half cocked. the other difference appears to be Obama, Panetta, et. al's decision to not trust the Pakistanis with the intel... sort of tells us what we already knew about sieve that is the ISI in Pakistan.

To be honest, I don't think it really mattered much who was in office - I think Obama acted just like Bush or Clinton would've done once they got the information. From all accounts, this operation was something like at least 4 years in the making. From interrogation (and allusions are it came from Gitmo - ironic for sure) we found out about a courier. It took another two years to find the guy and start following his patterns. And it only just happened in the past year that we could find the house and starting deducing that bin Laden was really there. Plus you have to figure there have been plenty of changes in progress over the past 10 years in the intelligence agency - it's not just the CIA out there. Obama gets the credit because he was here when it happened and he green lit it and saw the culmination of years of effort, but this is a victory for all Americans and for anyone who's been involved in the process of improving our ability to gather, collect, process, and act on intelligence.

No, I'm sure it' only possible with Obama as president.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

the difference, i suspect... is having a CiC who is willing to be patient, let the facts develop, pull the string carefully, let the CIA do what it does best... and not get trigger happy and go off half cocked. the other difference appears to be Obama, Panetta, et. al's decision to not trust the Pakistanis with the intel... sort of tells us what we already knew about sieve that is the ISI in Pakistan.

To be honest, I don't think it really mattered much who was in office - I think Obama acted just like Bush or Clinton would've done once they got the information. From all accounts, this operation was something like at least 4 years in the making. From interrogation (and allusions are it came from Gitmo - ironic for sure) we found out about a courier. It took another two years to find the guy and start following his patterns. And it only just happened in the past year that we could find the house and starting deducing that bin Laden was really there. Plus you have to figure there have been plenty of changes in progress over the past 10 years in the intelligence agency - it's not just the CIA out there. Obama gets the credit because he was here when it happened and he green lit it and saw the culmination of years of effort, but this is a victory for all Americans and for anyone who's been involved in the process of improving our ability to gather, collect, process, and act on intelligence.

yes and no.

even as much as i loathe bush, i don't question for one second that he wanted to capture or kill that son of a bitch.

my point also wasn't that this was something that had only been going on during the Obama administration. My point was that back in August - when Obama got this intel, his patient nature, his willingness to bide his time and wait for the right moment appears critical. I have my doubts that Bush, or Clinton to a certain extent, would have been so patient. That's the difference I was referring to and I wonder if either of them would have just sent a predator or lobbed a cruise missile in to the compound.

[GannonFan]

To be honest, I don't think it really mattered much who was in office - I think Obama acted just like Bush or Clinton would've done once they got the information. From all accounts, this operation was something like at least 4 years in the making. From interrogation (and allusions are it came from Gitmo - ironic for sure) we found out about a courier. It took another two years to find the guy and start following his patterns. And it only just happened in the past year that we could find the house and starting deducing that bin Laden was really there. Plus you have to figure there have been plenty of changes in progress over the past 10 years in the intelligence agency - it's not just the CIA out there. Obama gets the credit because he was here when it happened and he green lit it and saw the culmination of years of effort, but this is a victory for all Americans and for anyone who's been involved in the process of improving our ability to gather, collect, process, and act on intelligence.

No, I'm sure it' only possible with Obama as president.

Well, you know, we needed FDR to move out of the way so that Truman could close the deal with WWII.

[93henfan]

I 100% believe Osama has been killed, but the WH should relase a GD photo. In July 2003 the Bush admin had released photographs of Saddam Hussein’s dead sons Uday and Qusay to prove they were dead-ay. And as I recall, one took a round (or schrapnel) in the head. Need to do the same thing here. RELEASE THE PHOTOS!

JFC it's been 12 hours since the press release.

Settle down Beavis. I'm sure you'll get plenty of photos in due time.

[93henfan]

Re the "death photo", like I said last night, even before Obama spoke I googled "Bin Laden dead" and that image popped up dated 2009. The other thing is, dead people don't make poses with their mouth. Lastly, the TMZ piece pretty much clinches it.

[GannonFan]

To be honest, I don't think it really mattered much who was in office - I think Obama acted just like Bush or Clinton would've done once they got the information. From all accounts, this operation was something like at least 4 years in the making. From interrogation (and allusions are it came from Gitmo - ironic for sure) we found out about a courier. It took another two years to find the guy and start following his patterns. And it only just happened in the past year that we could find the house and starting deducing that bin Laden was really there. Plus you have to figure there have been plenty of changes in progress over the past 10 years in the intelligence agency - it's not just the CIA out there. Obama gets the credit because he was here when it happened and he green lit it and saw the culmination of years of effort, but this is a victory for all Americans and for anyone who's been involved in the process of improving our ability to gather, collect, process, and act on intelligence.

yes and no.

even as much as i loathe bush, i don't question for one second that he wanted to capture or kill that son of a bitch.

my point also wasn't that this was something that had only been going on during the Obama administration. My point was that back in August - when Obama got this intel, his patient nature, his willingness to bide his time and wait for the right moment appears critical. I have my doubts that Bush, or Clinton to a certain extent, would have been so patient. That's the difference I was referring to and I wonder if either of them would have just sent a predator or lobbed a cruise missile in to the compound.

Well, you could be true to the point, but then again, how often had Obama had a chance to get bin Laden and then only find out that we missed by the matter or hours or days? Both Bush and Clinton had chances to get bin Laden only to get there just a tad late. With that kind of history and experience, they may have very well jumped at the chance to get him - they certainly wouldn't want him to get away again. I don't think we'll ever know how many close calls Obama had to get bin Laden, but it's likely far less than his two predecessors, so he wouldn't have as much of a reason to jump at the chance.

Also keep in mind, we are 10 years out from 9/11 and bin Laden's been essentially neutralized for years now. The urgency to get him has been much less than it was 5 years ago - he became a figurehead, not an operational asset. Waiting to take him out at this point in the game is vastly different than waiting to take him out back when he was running things. It's much easier to be patient when there is no urgency.

[Skjellyfetti]

yes and no.

even as much as i loathe bush, i don't question for one second that he wanted to capture or kill that son of a bitch.

my point also wasn't that this was something that had only been going on during the Obama administration. My point was that back in August - when Obama got this intel, his patient nature, his willingness to bide his time and wait for the right moment appears critical. I have my doubts that Bush, or Clinton to a certain extent, would have been so patient. That's the difference I was referring to and I wonder if either of them would have just sent a predator or lobbed a cruise missile in to the compound.

Exactly. Not to mention the fact that McCain, Bush, Clinton called Obama naive when he said he wanted to operate inside of Pakistan with or without Pakistan's permission. He stuck to his guns on that despite criticism... and it paid off.

[AZGrizFan]

yes and no.

even as much as i loathe bush, i don't question for one second that he wanted to capture or kill that son of a bitch.

my point also wasn't that this was something that had only been going on during the Obama administration. My point was that back in August - when Obama got this intel, his patient nature, his willingness to bide his time and wait for the right moment appears critical. I have my doubts that Bush, or Clinton to a certain extent, would have been so patient. That's the difference I was referring to and I wonder if either of them would have just sent a predator or lobbed a cruise missile in to the compound.

Exactly. Not to mention the fact that McCain, Bush, Clinton called Obama naive when he said he wanted to operate inside of Pakistan with or without Pakistan's permission. He stuck to his guns on that despite criticism... and it paid off.

Pakistan = Afghanistan. Really not much difference.

[GannonFan]

yes and no.

even as much as i loathe bush, i don't question for one second that he wanted to capture or kill that son of a bitch.

my point also wasn't that this was something that had only been going on during the Obama administration. My point was that back in August - when Obama got this intel, his patient nature, his willingness to bide his time and wait for the right moment appears critical. I have my doubts that Bush, or Clinton to a certain extent, would have been so patient. That's the difference I was referring to and I wonder if either of them would have just sent a predator or lobbed a cruise missile in to the compound.

Exactly. Not to mention the fact that McCain, Bush, Clinton called Obama naive when he said he wanted to operate inside of Pakistan with or without Pakistan's permission. He stuck to his guns on that despite criticism... and it paid off.

McCain probably would've said that, but when did Bush or Clinton (which Clinton, btw) say that?

[Skjellyfetti]

Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama said on Wednesday the United States must be willing to strike al Qaeda targets inside Pakistan, adopting a tough tone after a chief rival accused him of naivete in foreign policy.

Obama's stance comes amid debate in Washington over what to do about a resurgent al Qaeda and Taliban in areas of northwest Pakistan that President Pervez Musharraf has been unable to control, and concerns that new recruits are being trained there for a September 11-style attack against the United States.

Obama said if elected in November 2008 he would be willing to attack inside Pakistan with or without approval from the Pakistani government, a move that would likely cause anxiety in the already troubled region.

"If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will," Obama said.

[AZGrizFan]

Exactly. Not to mention the fact that McCain, Bush, Clinton called Obama naive when he said he wanted to operate inside of Pakistan with or without Pakistan's permission. He stuck to his guns on that despite criticism... and it paid off.

McCain probably would've said that, but when did Bush or Clinton (which Clinton, btw) say that?

Clinton's favorite tool (besides his own) was the tomahawk cruise missile. It was his answer to pretty much everything.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

Exactly. Not to mention the fact that McCain, Bush, Clinton called Obama naive when he said he wanted to operate inside of Pakistan with or without Pakistan's permission. He stuck to his guns on that despite criticism... and it paid off.

McCain probably would've said that, but when did Bush or Clinton (which Clinton, btw) say that?

i'm with GF on this dude... I don't recall any of this.

Bush did plenty inside Pakistan without really consulting Musharraff - because we didn't trust the lousy snake in the grass... and for good reason it would appear.

[ASUG8]

A KY sighting - after last night's news you finally went soft long enough to post on here?

At least my dick still gets hard without a prescription.

So does mine - but I don't need a daily dose of Fox news to get there either.

[93henfan]

Exactly what I was thinking when I saw those posts. The first two groups that popped in my head were the SEALS and Marine Force Recon. Besides, given President Obama's statement that CIA was running the show, it could have been anybody, even a mixed group of elite special operations folk. I'm sick of this Army-centric trash.

Force Recon is not part of U.S. Special Ops!!!! Anyway, great jobs by the SEALS......

Marine Force Recon is a special operations capable force. In addition, most Marine Expeditionary Units (MEUs) work to attain a SOC rating before shipping out. They do conduct special operations, on the order of POTUS. Force Recon is not organized under SOCOM, which may be the source of your confusion.

[Skjellyfetti]

i'm with GF on this dude... I don't recall any of this.

Hillary Clinton:

Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama said on Wednesday the United States must be willing to strike al Qaeda targets inside Pakistan, adopting a tough tone after a chief rival accused him of naivete in foreign policy.

Obama's stance comes amid debate in Washington over what to do about a resurgent al Qaeda and Taliban in areas of northwest Pakistan that President Pervez Musharraf has been unable to control, and concerns that new recruits are being trained there for a September 11-style attack against the United States.

Obama said if elected in November 2008 he would be willing to attack inside Pakistan with or without approval from the Pakistani government, a move that would likely cause anxiety in the already troubled region.

"If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will," Obama said.

McCain:

Presumptive Republican nominee John McCain Wednesday branded Barack Obama "naive," in a pre-emptive strike designed to paint his possible Democratic White House rival as a national security novice.

The charge signalled that Senator McCain, a 71-year-old former navy pilot, Vietnam prisoner of war, and Iraq hawk, will try to frame any general election clash as a test of Obama's commander-in-chief credentials in a time of war.

Obama's campaign quickly replied, and in another harbinger of a possible Obama-McCain election showdown, linked McCain to what Democrats see as President George W. Bush's disastrous foreign policy legacy.

McCain zeroed in on a speech by Obama in August in which he said he would be prepared to strike Al-Qaeda on Pakistani territory if Islamabad would not respond to actionable intelligence.

"Well, the best idea is to not broadcast what you're going to do. That's naive," McCain told reporters in Columbus, Ohio.