The Ukraine Crisis

[SeattleGriz]

11-12k killed and 15k - 20k wounded according to former Colonel Doug McGregor. He also says it's impossible to know, which surprisingly you never hear from western media.

He says it's Ukraine that has 60-70k dead.

We'll all see soon enough who's been suckered by their sources. NYT or former Colonel.

McGregor sounds like a neutral source.

Watch his YouTube video above that I posted a day or two ago. Either he's suckering me in with his calm, NPR style of presentation, or he knows a thing or two.

Also, his Wikipedia profile on his career is interesting to say the least. He appears to be one that doesn't agree with political correctness throughout his career, which was a detriment.

As I've said throughout this thread, he's putting himself out there and time will tell if he's uninformed or not.

[Skjellyfetti]

Actually 70k casualties for the Russians isn’t that high for 6 months. That’s less than 1 week of casualties for them in WWII..

Yeah. You keep saying that. You do know not every war is like WWII, right? You do know that the Soviets were invaded by a massive army that thought they were an inferior race and wanted them wiped off the earth? Not exactly apples to apples.

For your next study, do Soviet casualties after a decade in Afghanistan.

[BDKJMU]

Actually 70k casualties for the Russians isn’t that high for 6 months. That’s less than 1 week of casualties for them in WWII..

Yeah. You keep saying that. You do know not every war is like WWII, right? You do know that the Soviets were invaded by a massive army that thought they were an inferior race and wanted them wiped off the earth? Not exactly apples to apples.

For your next study, do Soviet casualties after a decade in Afghanistan.

Yeah I know the Soviets only suffered ballpark reported 50k casualties (dead and wounded) in Afghanistan.

Russo-Japanese Russia had upwards of 200k casualties in a yr and a half.

The Winter War only 3 1/2 months attacking the Finns the Soviets suffered around 350k casualties

WWI 5-6 million ballpark Russian military casualties (total dead & wounded)
WWII 25 million ballpark Soviet military casualties.

Yeah a smaller population than WWI & WWII, but in historical context 70k casualties for the Russians in 6 months of war isn’t high.

[SDHornet]

Is Ukraine winning yet? They take back Crimea?

[SDHornet]

His invasion of Ukraine has been an abject failure. He was expected to take the country in days or weeks and it's dragged on for months. Expectations have been scaled back and still aren't being met. The longer the war lasts the worse he looks.

Far be it from me to come to SG's defense, especially on this topic where it appears SG could actually be either a Russian bot or a paid Russian internet influencer.

However, how are we calling what Russia is doing in the Ukraine as "abject failure"? There's no doubt that Russia's military has been shown to be not terribly effective - they have suffered tremendous casualties, they have shown egregious errors in tactics and strategy, and they have struggled against a vastly outgunned opponent. But at the end of the day, they have occupied pretty much all of the Donbas region. As it stands right now, those two puppet Russian governments they set up in those regions look like they're going to be around for awhile. Just like Crimea years ago, Russia looks like they were able to take Ukrainian territory and will likely still have it years from now. And who knows, in 8 years from now he could be back it again, looking to take another sliver of Ukrainian territory. I agree, it's horribly wasteful and tremendously inefficient, but this is Russia we're talking about, that's practically modus operandi for them. As for how he looks on the world's stage, he's still friends with the countries he was friends with before this - China, Iran, North Korea, and potentially African nations. But until there's real unrest inside Russia that coalesces into a real movement to unseat him, Putin hasn't lost a thing other than tens of thousands of soldiers he apparently didn't care that much about anyway. Dictators are like that.

This. Read that Russia has been selling $1B worth of oil a day since the war started. $1B/day...

...meanwhile the West continues to throw money away on a corrupt Ukrainian regime that, according to CBS, only manages to get about 30% of the weapons to the front.

[SDHornet]

It's still pretty high. In 1941 they were fighting for their very existence. Here in 2022, they're fighting to subjugate another sovereign nation and steal their land and resources, all the while stroking the ego of an aging dictator. 70k casualties for that self-inflicted power trip is a bit excessive. But I'm sure SG will be on here soon to give us the heavily edited Russian interpretation of this.

11-12k killed and 15k - 20k wounded according to former Colonel Doug McGregor. He also says it's impossible to know, which surprisingly you never hear from western media.

He says it's Ukraine that has 60-70k dead.

We'll all see soon enough who's been suckered by their sources. NYT or former Colonel.

If Russia lost as many as they claim they would have lost some of their operational capacity...yet they are still on the move...hhmmm something not adding up there.

Meanwhile Ukraine upped the age limit into retirement age in the last few weeks....hhmmm

[SDHornet]

Yeah. You keep saying that. You do know not every war is like WWII, right? You do know that the Soviets were invaded by a massive army that thought they were an inferior race and wanted them wiped off the earth? Not exactly apples to apples.

For your next study, do Soviet casualties after a decade in Afghanistan.

Yeah I know the Soviets only suffered ballpark reported 50k casualties (dead and wounded) in Afghanistan.

Russo-Japanese Russia had upwards of 200k casualties in a yr and a half.

The Winter War only 3 1/2 months attacking the Finns the Soviets suffered around 350k casualties

WWI 5-6 million ballpark Russian military casualties (total dead & wounded)
WWII 25 million ballpark Soviet military casualties.

Yeah a smaller population than WWI & WWII, but in historical context 70k casualties for the Russians in 6 months of war isn’t high.

The problem with this method of assessment is the assumption that similar tactics are being used. I think most folks envisioned mass waves of Russian infantry charging ahead into the heavily fortified areas of Donbas and that clearly isn't the approach Russia took.

[UNI88]

Far be it from me to come to SG's defense, especially on this topic where it appears SG could actually be either a Russian bot or a paid Russian internet influencer.

However, how are we calling what Russia is doing in the Ukraine as "abject failure"? There's no doubt that Russia's military has been shown to be not terribly effective - they have suffered tremendous casualties, they have shown egregious errors in tactics and strategy, and they have struggled against a vastly outgunned opponent. But at the end of the day, they have occupied pretty much all of the Donbas region. As it stands right now, those two puppet Russian governments they set up in those regions look like they're going to be around for awhile. Just like Crimea years ago, Russia looks like they were able to take Ukrainian territory and will likely still have it years from now. And who knows, in 8 years from now he could be back it again, looking to take another sliver of Ukrainian territory. I agree, it's horribly wasteful and tremendously inefficient, but this is Russia we're talking about, that's practically modus operandi for them. As for how he looks on the world's stage, he's still friends with the countries he was friends with before this - China, Iran, North Korea, and potentially African nations. But until there's real unrest inside Russia that coalesces into a real movement to unseat him, Putin hasn't lost a thing other than tens of thousands of soldiers he apparently didn't care that much about anyway. Dictators are like that.

This. Read that Russia has been selling $1B worth of oil a day since the war started. $1B/day...

...meanwhile the West continues to throw money away on a corrupt Ukrainian regime that, according to CBS, only manages to get about 30% of the weapons to the front.

Abject was too hyperbolic so I can agree with Ganny as well. Russia's invasion of Ukraine has been a failure but not an abject failure.

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[Skjellyfetti]

Henry Kissinger agrees with me.

Veteran US statesman Henry Kissinger has urged the West to stop trying to inflict a crushing defeat on Russian forces in Ukraine, warning that it would have disastrous consequences for the long term stability of Europe.

The former US secretary of state and architect of the Cold War rapprochement between the US and China told a gathering in Davos that it would be fatal for the West to get swept up in the mood of the moment and forget the proper place of Russia in the European balance of power.

Dr Kissinger said the war must not be allowed to drag on for much longer, and came close to calling on the West to bully Ukraine into accepting negotiations on terms that fall very far short of its current war aims.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/henry-ki ... 12366.html

Came to his senses too.

[kalm]

Henry Kissinger agrees with me.



https://finance.yahoo.com/news/henry-ki ... 12366.html

Came to his senses too.

Reasonable now, probably at a disadvantage with info from the outset initially.

[BDKJMU]

Henry Kissinger agrees with me.



https://finance.yahoo.com/news/henry-ki ... 12366.html

Came to his senses too.

More like being 99 years old, and his senses aren’t all there..

[SeattleGriz]

SENIOR US MARINE CORPS OFFICER EXPRESSES ADMIRATION FOR THE ‘REVOLUTIONARY’ WAY IN WHICH RUSSIA HAS FOUGHT ITS WAR IN UKRAINE

https://southfront.org/us-marine-corps- ... dmiration/

Huh. The Russians pulled off a feint in the beginning of the war.

Ordinary people in the West reading and listening to the mainstream media have been presented with a series of narratives regarding the war in Ukraine. Apparently, Russia has been losing its war in Ukraine since the first days of the conflict. The evidence to support this is the fact that Russia apparently failed to conquer Kiev and other northern cities in the first few weeks of the conflict. During its failed attempt to conquer Kiev and other northern cities, Russian troops have committed numerous war crimes due to the artillery and missile attacks that they have launched on civilian infrastructure and residential areas. To compound matters, Russia’s armed forces have suffered staggering losses, high desertion rates and its generals are a set of bungling fools who could not organise a booze up in a brewery. Apparently, it is only a matter of time before the evil Russian hordes are pushed back across the border with their tails between their legs due to a combination of Ukrainian bravery and Western weaponry.

The picture that has been presented of the war in Ukraine is completely at odds with the reality of the situation on the ground. Surprisingly, information that supports this assertion, which totally undermines the Western media narratives regarding the war, is provided by an article in the August edition of the United States Marine Corps Gazette. Writing under under the pen name Marinus, a senior marine corps officer, provides an objective analysis of Russian military strategy since late February. It totally undermines the narratives provided by Western media and pro Washington politicians.

Marinus has been revealed. Make sure to read about his role in the Millennium Challenge.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millenn ... lenge_2002

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Van_Riper

[houndawg]

Let you reader finish the article before you hyper-ventilate - NATO isn't itching to take on Russia, but NATO's generals know now that if it comes to that NATO will make short work of the Russians. A few hours to take control of the skies and after that its just target practice

We couldn’t even “make short work” of the Taliban.

Whole different war.

Nice open ground....wide open spaces.......target practice

[houndawg]

His invasion of Ukraine has been an abject failure. He was expected to take the country in days or weeks and it's dragged on for months. Expectations have been scaled back and still aren't being met. The longer the war lasts the worse he looks.

And where did you get this information? That's what I'm driving at. I keep hearing how stuff should have gone, but see no proof that was actually the plan. Sounds like narrative as opposed to actual knowledge. Not ragging on you, but all the so called experts in the media who put this stuff out there.

Good point, its possible the plan was to get bogged down after invading a next-door neighbor who sent you packing from the city where you planned to install a puppet gubmint. A double-reverse false flag...

[UNI88]

SENIOR US MARINE CORPS OFFICER EXPRESSES ADMIRATION FOR THE ‘REVOLUTIONARY’ WAY IN WHICH RUSSIA HAS FOUGHT ITS WAR IN UKRAINE

https://southfront.org/us-marine-corps- ... dmiration/

Huh. The Russians pulled off a feint in the beginning of the war.

Ordinary people in the West reading and listening to the mainstream media have been presented with a series of narratives regarding the war in Ukraine. Apparently, Russia has been losing its war in Ukraine since the first days of the conflict. The evidence to support this is the fact that Russia apparently failed to conquer Kiev and other northern cities in the first few weeks of the conflict. During its failed attempt to conquer Kiev and other northern cities, Russian troops have committed numerous war crimes due to the artillery and missile attacks that they have launched on civilian infrastructure and residential areas. To compound matters, Russia’s armed forces have suffered staggering losses, high desertion rates and its generals are a set of bungling fools who could not organise a booze up in a brewery. Apparently, it is only a matter of time before the evil Russian hordes are pushed back across the border with their tails between their legs due to a combination of Ukrainian bravery and Western weaponry.

The picture that has been presented of the war in Ukraine is completely at odds with the reality of the situation on the ground. Surprisingly, information that supports this assertion, which totally undermines the Western media narratives regarding the war, is provided by an article in the August edition of the United States Marine Corps Gazette. Writing under under the pen name Marinus, a senior marine corps officer, provides an objective analysis of Russian military strategy since late February. It totally undermines the narratives provided by Western media and pro Washington politicians.

Marinus has been revealed. Make sure to read about his role in the Millennium Challenge.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millenn ... lenge_2002

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Van_Riper

I reject his "objective" analysis like you rejected CID's objective analysis.

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[houndawg]

11-12k killed and 15k - 20k wounded according to former Colonel Doug McGregor. He also says it's impossible to know, which surprisingly you never hear from western media.

He says it's Ukraine that has 60-70k dead.

We'll all see soon enough who's been suckered by their sources. NYT or former Colonel.

If Russia lost as many as they claim they would have lost some of their operational capacity...yet they are still on the move...hhmmm something not adding up there.

Meanwhile Ukraine upped the age limit into retirement age in the last few weeks....hhmmm

Tell us more, SDPatton, how much longer can the outmanned/outgunned Ukrainians fight before they are overwhelmed? Hmmmmm

[SeattleGriz]

https://southfront.org/us-marine-corps- ... dmiration/

Huh. The Russians pulled off a feint in the beginning of the war.





Marinus has been revealed. Make sure to read about his role in the Millennium Challenge.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millenn ... lenge_2002

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Van_Riper

I reject his "objective" analysis like you rejected CID's objective analysis.

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Was it the rejecting of "Putin's gonna launch tactical nukes" or "Bellingcat is top notch OSINT" or the "Bucha massacre" or all three?

[AZGrizFan]

We couldn’t even “make short work” of the Taliban.

Whole different war.

Nice open ground....wide open spaces.......target practice

Right. We couldn’t defeat fucking cavemen.

[bobbythekidd]

Admittedly i should have been following this more closely, but why are some rooting for Russia in this?

[SeattleGriz]

Admittedly i should have been following this more closely, but why are some rooting for Russia in this?

None are rooting for Russia, some just aren't buying the narrative the media is putting out.

[bobbythekidd]

Admittedly i should have been following this more closely, but why are some rooting for Russia in this?

None are rooting for Russia, some just aren't buying the narrative the media is putting out.

Then I must be reading this thread a few pages in, incorrectly. What's the narrative that is the problem?

[SeattleGriz]

None are rooting for Russia, some just aren't buying the narrative the media is putting out.

Then I must be reading this thread a few pages in, incorrectly. What's the narrative that is the problem?

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but for starters I feel the US really pushed the boundary with Putin and he has reacted to that. I've quoted a fair amount of articles in which the US promised, "not one inch further" towards Russia with troops and NATO, but didn't keep that promise. Your word is your word. I also advocated for discussions to diffuse, but we obviously didn't go that route.

In addition, the whole Putin was going to do this or that is all without basis. Very similar to what you said the other day when nobody on this board, or in the media was in on the Russian operational plan. Not specifically Russia, but you understand what I mean.

Lastly, the fact that Russia is absolutely clobbering Ukraine via an artillery war. Some think Russia is losing.

[UNI88]

Admittedly i should have been following this more closely, but why are some rooting for Russia in this?

None are rooting for Russia, they're rooting for trump who is rooting for Putin who is Russia and they're trying to disguise it by saying they just aren't buying the narrative the media is putting out.

FYP

What's funny/ironic about these people is that they will believe people who push conspiracies like the 2020 election was stolen and Jewish space lasers.


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[SeattleGriz]

None are rooting for Russia, they're rooting for trump who is rooting for Putin who is Russia and they're trying to disguise it by saying they just aren't buying the narrative the media is putting out.

FYP

What's funny/ironic about these people is that they will believe people who push conspiracies like the 2020 election was stolen and Jewish space lasers.


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Oooh. Tell me more about the Jewish Space lasers. I could get behind that one!

This is one of my favorites.

Instead of hundreds of small projectiles from a few thousand feet, Thor used a large projectile from a few thousand miles above the Earth. The “rods from God” idea was a bundle of telephone-pole sized (20 feet long, one foot in diameter) tungsten rods, dropped from orbit, reaching a speed of up to ten times the speed of sound.

https://www.military.com/off-duty/2020/ ... eapon.html

[UNI88]

FYP

What's funny/ironic about these people is that they will believe people who push conspiracies like the 2020 election was stolen and Jewish space lasers.

Oooh. Tell me more about the Jewish Space lasers. I could get behind that one!

This is one of my favorites.

Instead of hundreds of small projectiles from a few thousand feet, Thor used a large projectile from a few thousand miles above the Earth. The “rods from God” idea was a bundle of telephone-pole sized (20 feet long, one foot in diameter) tungsten rods, dropped from orbit, reaching a speed of up to ten times the speed of sound.

https://www.military.com/off-duty/2020/ ... eapon.html

You'd have to ask that shining example of rational genius, MTG, about the Jewish space lasers.