Kerry Fails Again-Iran Talks Extended-No Agreement In Sight

[CID1990]

the last secular democracy Iran had was forced on them with an iron fist

its sort of how we got to where things are today

but yeah, sure

But weren't they headed toward one on their own decades before that until the west intervened?

don't even bother trying to suggest that Iran was heading towards constitutional secularity like Turkey. They weren't.

[kalm]

But weren't they headed toward one on their own decades before that until the west intervened?

don't even bother trying to suggest that Iran was heading towards constitutional secularity like Turkey. They weren't.

I don't know if it was or not but Mossadegh seemed to be on the right track and he was democratically elected.

[CID1990]

don't even bother trying to suggest that Iran was heading towards constitutional secularity like Turkey. They weren't.

I don't know if it was or not but Mossadegh seemed to be on the right track and he was democratically elected.

if on the right track you mean that in seating his parliament he disenfranchised the shiite populations outside of the cities ... then yeah - he was democratically elected by the urban elites

Mossadegh was simply the Russians' guy, the Shah was ours. That country was going to wind up in the same place no matter which cold war power won out

[Grizalltheway]

Twenty-nine of the nation’s top scientists — including Nobel laureates, veteran makers of nuclear arms and former White House science advisers — wrote to President Obama on Saturday to praise the Iran deal, calling it innovative and stringent.

The letter, from some of the world’s most knowledgeable experts in the fields of nuclear weapons and arms control, arrives as Mr. Obama is lobbying Congress, the American public and the nation’s allies to support the agreement.

The two-page letter may give the White House arguments a boost after the blow Mr. Obama suffered on Thursday when Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, a Democrat and among the most influential Jewish voices in Congress, announced he would oppose the deal, which calls for Iran to curb its nuclear program and allow inspections in return for an end to international oil and financial sanctions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/09/world ... .html?_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[houndawg]

Twenty-nine of the nation’s top scientists — including Nobel laureates, veteran makers of nuclear arms and former White House science advisers — wrote to President Obama on Saturday to praise the Iran deal, calling it innovative and stringent.

The letter, from some of the world’s most knowledgeable experts in the fields of nuclear weapons and arms control, arrives as Mr. Obama is lobbying Congress, the American public and the nation’s allies to support the agreement.

The two-page letter may give the White House arguments a boost after the blow Mr. Obama suffered on Thursday when Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, a Democrat and among the most influential Jewish voices in Congress, announced he would oppose the deal, which calls for Iran to curb its nuclear program and allow inspections in return for an end to international oil and financial sanctions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/09/world ... .html?_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Threads like this one here are where I really feel the loss of Tman. Fvcker would have been on this post like a chicken on a june bug. Freaking out like Donald Duck on meth.

[CID1990]

Twenty-nine of the nation’s top scientists — including Nobel laureates, veteran makers of nuclear arms and former White House science advisers — wrote to President Obama on Saturday to praise the Iran deal, calling it innovative and stringent.

The letter, from some of the world’s most knowledgeable experts in the fields of nuclear weapons and arms control, arrives as Mr. Obama is lobbying Congress, the American public and the nation’s allies to support the agreement.

The two-page letter may give the White House arguments a boost after the blow Mr. Obama suffered on Thursday when Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, a Democrat and among the most influential Jewish voices in Congress, announced he would oppose the deal, which calls for Iran to curb its nuclear program and allow inspections in return for an end to international oil and financial sanctions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/09/world ... .html?_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They only rounded up 29?

Hell they should have called Shell for tips on buying more scientists to support their cause

BTW what does "science" have to do with whether or not Iran will play honest?

[bluehenbillk]

I agree - I fail to see how a backing from scientists is even newsworthy. Nobel laureates?

All that being said it's a debate about nothing - it'll be a major surprise if the deal doesn't pass. It's a no-win situation for the USA - we're damned if we do & we're damned if we don't - either way Iran will end up with nuclear capability. I'm surprised how little press & reaction there was this week to the revelation that North Korea is a full nuclear club member now. Goes to prove that ignoring countries & just sanctioning them doesn't work at all.

[LeadBolt]

[youtube][/youtube]

Twenty-nine of the nation’s top scientists — including Nobel laureates, veteran makers of nuclear arms and former White House science advisers — wrote to President Obama on Saturday to praise the Iran deal, calling it innovative and stringent.

The letter, from some of the world’s most knowledgeable experts in the fields of nuclear weapons and arms control, arrives as Mr. Obama is lobbying Congress, the American public and the nation’s allies to support the agreement.

The two-page letter may give the White House arguments a boost after the blow Mr. Obama suffered on Thursday when Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, a Democrat and among the most influential Jewish voices in Congress, announced he would oppose the deal, which calls for Iran to curb its nuclear program and allow inspections in return for an end to international oil and financial sanctions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/09/world ... .html?_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nice mis-direction. I'd bet the letter was drafted at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

This is not really about science but about the Iranians keeping their word and verifying such.

Improving their economics will only allow them to develop the bomb faster, lifting the arms embargo on conventional weapons will only allow them to export terrorism more efficiently, allowing them to freely export oil will only push down the price to where American companies go bankrupt and we lose jobs here and Russia can't sustain itself and will lash out and destabilize the world more to take their populace's mind off of economic misery at home, ala the Ukraine.

A nice legacy for Obama. Next he will want to pay Cuba for the property of Americans the Communists confiscated when they took power.

Counter point (as genuine as the scientist's letter is relevant):

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hIz_vkZH5k[/youtube]

[kalm]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/09/world ... .html?_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They only rounded up 29?

Hell they should have called Shell for tips on buying more scientists to support their cause

BTW what does "science" have to do with whether or not Iran will play honest?

About as much as partisan politics?

I'll bet some of these guys who have studied nuclear arms proliferation for decades aren't even close to Louie Gohmert's level of understanding.

[CID1990]

They only rounded up 29?

Hell they should have called Shell for tips on buying more scientists to support their cause

BTW what does "science" have to do with whether or not Iran will play honest?

About as much as partisan politics?

I'll bet some of these guys who have studied nuclear arms proliferation for decades aren't even close to Louie Gohmert's level of understanding.

hmm

I know (personally) the foremost subject matter expert on nonproliferation and arms control

he authored the original START treaty

has some NK experience, too

he's not on this list


but theyre in the NYT .... the paper of record... so it must be legit

[Chizzang]

They only rounded up 29?
Hell they should have called Shell for tips on buying more scientists to support their cause

BTW what does "science" have to do with whether or not Iran will play honest?

Okay F*ck-O
You're stealing all my punchlines
I was racing over here to say basically the same thing - only more funny

Here was mine:
"Hell BP got more scientists to sign off on the Gulf Oil spill was no big deal"

[kalm]

About as much as partisan politics?

I'll bet some of these guys who have studied nuclear arms proliferation for decades aren't even close to Louie Gohmert's level of understanding.

hmm

I know (personally) the foremost subject matter expert on nonproliferation and arms control

he authored the original START treaty

has some NK experience, too

he's not on this list


but theyre in the NYT .... the paper of record... so it must be legit

So he disagrees? I'm ok with that. I just don't feel all that threatened by opposing views, especially from those who've studied things a bit.

[D1B]

About as much as partisan politics?

I'll bet some of these guys who have studied nuclear arms proliferation for decades aren't even close to Louie Gohmert's level of understanding.

hmm

I know (personally) the foremost subject matter expert on nonproliferation and arms control

he authored the original START treaty

has some NK experience, too

he's not on this list


but theyre in the NYT .... the paper of record... so it must be legit

The "I personnaly know someone" gambit!!!!

Right out of the Joltin Joe Schoolyard Debate Playbook.

[Grizalltheway]

hmm

I know (personally) the foremost subject matter expert on nonproliferation and arms control

he authored the original START treaty

has some NK experience, too

he's not on this list


but theyre in the NYT .... the paper of record... so it must be legit

The "I personnaly know someone" gambit!!!!

Right out of the Joltin Joe Schoolyard Debate Playbook.

No shit. Least he could do is actually drop the name of the guy he gave a handy to in the bathroom at that cocktail party.

[CID1990]

The "I personnaly know someone" gambit!!!!

Right out of the Joltin Joe Schoolyard Debate Playbook.

No ****. Least he could do is actually drop the name of the guy he gave a handy to in the bathroom at that cocktail party.

very funny

I worked for a short time in the same office- the bureau of arms control and nonproliferation - it is an assistant secretary level front office. I got to meet several interesting people with a lot of policy experience with treaties and verification issues. there were three subject matter specialists there (the guy i referred to was one) who were some of the smartest people ive ever met

the reason i dont say names is out of consideration - i almost never put names online unless i know the person is cool with them being google searchable to a football forum full of homos, idiots and cranks, and also people who say homos, idiots and cranks... on a football forum

[Chizzang]

Side Note:
We all have the RIGHT to thank for marginalizing Science BTW
Which I honestly think will end up being one of the GREAT tragedies of the 21st century

"The Marginalization of Science" to appease the dullards and muddy the waters

It's been a focused and diligent effort that has in large degrees been successful
Its now perfectly okay in America to disregard the scientific method as a legitimate tool for learning

Congratulations RIGHT WING
But be careful what you wish for - because you might get it

[CID1990]

hmm

I know (personally) the foremost subject matter expert on nonproliferation and arms control

he authored the original START treaty

has some NK experience, too

he's not on this list


but theyre in the NYT .... the paper of record... so it must be legit

So he disagrees? I'm ok with that. I just don't feel all that threatened by opposing views, especially from those who've studied things a bit.

i dont know if he disagrees or not, i havent asked

all I know is if youre going to ask anyone anything at all about arms deals he would be pretty much the top of the mountain

and he aint on the list

[D1B]

No ****. Least he could do is actually drop the name of the guy he gave a handy to in the bathroom at that cocktail party.

very funny

I worked for a short time in the same office- the bureau of arms control and nonproliferation - it is an assistant secretary level front office. I got to meet several interesting people with a lot of policy experience with treaties and verification issues. there were three subject matter specialists there (the guy i referred to was one) who were some of the smartest people ive ever met

the reason i dont say names is out of consideration - i almost never put names online unless i know the person is cool with them being google searchable to a football forum full of homos, idiots and cranks, and also people who say homos, idiots and cranks... on a football forum

Save it, Francis.

[GannonFan]

Side Note:
We all have the RIGHT to thank for marginalizing Science BTW
Which I honestly think will end up being one of the GREAT tragedies of the 21st century

"The Marginalization of Science" to appease the dullards and muddy the waters

It's been a focused and diligent effort that has in large degrees been successful
Its now perfectly okay in America to disregard the scientific method as a legitimate tool for learning

Congratulations RIGHT WING
But be careful what you wish for - because you might get it

Oh please, there's very little that one party or the other is entirely responsible for, you're putting way too much emphasis on politics to mold our culture, when it's really the other way around with culture impacting politics. The left was perfectly alright with arbitrary distinctions for when life begins when it involved a human fetus (using the criteria of when a baby could survive outside the womb) and now that science is pushing that line closer and closer to conception they are abandoning science to avoid the inevitable. Both parties use whatever they want or can to win elections.

And there are plenty of dullards to spare on both sides of the aisle - neither party has the monopoly on that not-so-scarce resource.

[Grizalltheway]

No ****. Least he could do is actually drop the name of the guy he gave a handy to in the bathroom at that cocktail party.

very funny

I worked for a short time in the same office- the bureau of arms control and nonproliferation - it is an assistant secretary level front office. I got to meet several interesting people with a lot of policy experience with treaties and verification issues. there were three subject matter specialists there (the guy i referred to was one) who were some of the smartest people ive ever met

the reason i dont say names is out of consideration - i almost never put names online unless i know the person is cool with them being google searchable to a football forum full of homos, idiots and cranks, and also people who say homos, idiots and cranks... on a football forum

Just busting your balls, no homo.

And is this guy a scientist? If not, who cares? I'm sure you could find long lists of diplomats/policy wonks whatever who both agree and disagree with the deal.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Cid vs 4 of you and he is still kicking your ass like TMan used to.............

I almost fel sory for you quarter wits




Almost

[Chizzang]

Side Note:
We all have the RIGHT to thank for marginalizing Science BTW
Which I honestly think will end up being one of the GREAT tragedies of the 21st century

"The Marginalization of Science" to appease the dullards and muddy the waters

It's been a focused and diligent effort that has in large degrees been successful
Its now perfectly okay in America to disregard the scientific method as a legitimate tool for learning

Congratulations RIGHT WING
But be careful what you wish for - because you might get it

Oh please, there's very little that one party or the other is entirely responsible for, you're putting way too much emphasis on politics to mold our culture, when it's really the other way around with culture impacting politics. The left was perfectly alright with arbitrary distinctions for when life begins when it involved a human fetus (using the criteria of when a baby could survive outside the womb) and now that science is pushing that line closer and closer to conception they are abandoning science to avoid the inevitable. Both parties use whatever they want or can to win elections.

And there are plenty of dullards to spare on both sides of the aisle - neither party has the monopoly on that not-so-scarce resource.

I'm not suggesting that one party has a monopoly on the dullards (we can all agree on that)
But I respectfully disagree with you on "marginalizing Science" as a Right Wing focus
It is an absolute imperative of their core

Science - in general - stands against the bulk of core tenets
a) Global Climate Change - Ignore all science here
b) Environmental Protection - Ignore all science here
c) How to educate children - Ignore all science here
d) Womens Rights & Abortion - Who's trying to make abortion illegal..? Last time I checked it wasn't scientists
e) in 2004 the Department of Health and Human Services was FORCED to delete Web site references to the efficacy of condom use in the fight against the spread of AIDS
f) NASA scientists have reported in 2005 that they were pressured repeatedly to delete climate change findings in their reports
g) Don't even get me started about Stem Cell research
h) Certain dangerous fracking techniques and their long term side effects - disregarded as crazy science

there's a sh!t load more... I'm just DONE explaining
If you don't agree with my claims about this - that is entirely because you just don't want to...
not because you have evidence to the contrary

[Grizalltheway]

Cid vs 4 of you and he is still kicking your ass like TMan used to.............

I almost fel sory for you quarter wits




Almost

And, as usual, you have nothing of value to add, and probably haven't even read the thread.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Yep and when I see you posting in a thread I know its all garbage.

Thanks for playing Corkey

[JoltinJoe]

hmm

I know (personally) the foremost subject matter expert on nonproliferation and arms control

he authored the original START treaty

has some NK experience, too

he's not on this list


but theyre in the NYT .... the paper of record... so it must be legit

The "I personnaly know someone" gambit!!!!

Right out of the Joltin Joe Schoolyard Debate Playbook.

BUT you know I know these people.