The Ukraine Crisis

[SDHornet]

Looks like all those fleeing Ukraine when they announced their mobilization. Interesting.

[SDHornet]

Are they calling up reserves or are they conscripting/shanghaiing people?

I've read that they are "reservists"...but I think there's a mandatory military service requirement in Russia so technically anyone is a "reservist". I equate this Russian mobilization similar to US activating the national guard during Iraq and Afghanistan. Ironically enough the 300k callup is nearly the same scale in body count.

ARLINGTON, Va. - On Dec. 18, 2011, when the final U.S. troops crossed the Iraqi border into Kuwait, the National Guard had deployed more than 250,000 Guard members in support of the war.

https://www.nationalguard.mil/News/Arti ... ployments/

[SDHornet]

I would guess that the reserves include NCOs and possibly officers so they would be better able to create a command structure. I'm not sure how that will work for a conscripted/shanghaied army but you're correct, it could blow up in their faces.

You're seeing two things.

First, Russia has mandatory military service for men 18-25ish. Not everyone is called up. Not everyone that is called up goes (wealthy and middle class generally bribe their way out of it and it's *widespread*). The conscription for the mandatory military service happens in the fall and spring. So, that is happening now and is part of what you're seeing as far as conscripting in the subway and immediately drafting protestors who are arrested etc.

The big difference, though is that Russia is (supposed to be) limit itself in how they use conscripts (according to their own law... not international law or anything). They are not supposed to take part in active fighting or be deployed to combat zones. Russia has been doing that in Ukraine anyway, so not too much has changed there (though, it will be much more widespread now, imo). Conscripts have short contracts that expire. They no longer have short contracts. Mobilization extends all of the contracts indefinitely.

As far as the reserves - they're also being called up. But, the reserves are different than the reserves in the US. There are no weekend warriors. In Russia, it is anyone that has prior military experience (mostly former conscripts).

Thanks for that, didn't know they had seasons of conscription. Also makes sense of the rumors that the "special operation" would be changed to "counter terrorist operation" to allow more use of the conscripts at the front.

[kalm]

[AZGrizFan]

Are they calling up reserves or are they conscripting/shanghaiing people?

I've read that they are "reservists"...but I think there's a mandatory military service requirement in Russia so technically anyone is a "reservist". I equate this Russian mobilization similar to US activating the national guard during Iraq and Afghanistan. Ironically enough the 300k callup is nearly the same scale in body count.

ARLINGTON, Va. - On Dec. 18, 2011, when the final U.S. troops crossed the Iraqi border into Kuwait, the National Guard had deployed more than 250,000 Guard members in support of the war.

https://www.nationalguard.mil/News/Arti ... ployments/

Many/most of those Guard members backfilled slots INCONUS and didn’t see live action. I don’t think Putin has the same strategy.

[houndawg]

Yes, yes. Those fellas should be VERY productive soldiers on the front.

It's what Russians have done for ages. Volume over quality.

The difference this time is that they aren't the home team and they don't want to be there.

[houndawg]

You're seeing two things.

First, Russia has mandatory military service for men 18-25ish. Not everyone is called up. Not everyone that is called up goes (wealthy and middle class generally bribe their way out of it and it's *widespread*). The conscription for the mandatory military service happens in the fall and spring. So, that is happening now and is part of what you're seeing as far as conscripting in the subway and immediately drafting protestors who are arrested etc.

The big difference, though is that Russia is (supposed to be) limit itself in how they use conscripts (according to their own law... not international law or anything). They are not supposed to take part in active fighting or be deployed to combat zones. Russia has been doing that in Ukraine anyway, so not too much has changed there (though, it will be much more widespread now, imo). Conscripts have short contracts that expire. They no longer have short contracts. Mobilization extends all of the contracts indefinitely.

As far as the reserves - they're also being called up. But, the reserves are different than the reserves in the US. There are no weekend warriors. In Russia, it is anyone that has prior military experience (mostly former conscripts).

Thanks for that, didn't know they had seasons of conscription. Also makes sense of the rumors that the "special operation" would be changed to "counter terrorist operation" to allow more use of the conscripts at the front.

Pretty soon you'll be able to argue that Crimea is part of Russia and the Ukrainians are the invaders and those mass graves are a false flag deep state hoax.

[AZGrizFan]

It's what Russians have done for ages. Volume over quality.

The difference this time is that they aren't the home team and they don't want to be there.

Exactly. They aren’t “defending” anything. This will not end well for Putin.

[houndawg]

The difference this time is that they aren't the home team and they don't want to be there.

Exactly. They aren’t “defending” anything. This will not end well for Putin.

we've seen what happens when you try to prosecute an unjust war with troops that know its an unjust war

[SDHornet]

Thanks for that, didn't know they had seasons of conscription. Also makes sense of the rumors that the "special operation" would be changed to "counter terrorist operation" to allow more use of the conscripts at the front.

Pretty soon you'll be able to argue that Crimea is part of Russia and the Ukrainians are the invaders and those mass graves are a false flag deep state hoax.

I don't really care what happens to Crimea, but it's been in Russia's hands since 2014 and that won't change barring NATO troops on the ground to take it from them.

There are also Ukrainian mass graves but not for the reasons you want to believe.

[SDHornet]

Interesting perspective on what a "win" is. Tying it back into the green energy agenda and how it made Europe dependent on Russian oil and gas. Interesting.

[Skjellyfetti]

I don't really care what happens to Crimea, but it's been in Russia's hands since 2014 and that won't change barring NATO troops on the ground to take it from them.

Hmmm. I thought you were arguing there were already NATO boots on the ground. Don't tell me you were trying to parse the meaning of "official" in bad faith.

[houndawg]

Pretty soon you'll be able to argue that Crimea is part of Russia and the Ukrainians are the invaders and those mass graves are a false flag deep state hoax.

I don't really care what happens to Crimea, but it's been in Russia's hands since 2014 and that won't change barring NATO troops on the ground to take it from them.

There are also Ukrainian mass graves but not for the reasons you want to believe.

Surprised we haven't heard from the same source you are insinuating exists.

[houndawg]

I don't really care what happens to Crimea, but it's been in Russia's hands since 2014 and that won't change barring NATO troops on the ground to take it from them.

Hmmm. I thought you were arguing there were already NATO boots on the ground. Don't tell me you were trying to parse the meaning of "official" in bad faith.

Maybe its their mass graves reek2 is queefing about?

[Skjellyfetti]

Ah yeah. That is a good point.

[Skjellyfetti]

Lol. Snowden about to be given a rusty AK and sent to Donbas

[houndawg]

Are they calling up reserves or are they conscripting/shanghaiing people?

I've read that they are "reservists"...but I think there's a mandatory military service requirement in Russia so technically anyone is a "reservist". I equate this Russian mobilization similar to US activating the national guard during Iraq and Afghanistan. Ironically enough the 300k callup is nearly the same scale in body count.

ARLINGTON, Va. - On Dec. 18, 2011, when the final U.S. troops crossed the Iraqi border into Kuwait, the National Guard had deployed more than 250,000 Guard members in support of the war.

https://www.nationalguard.mil/News/Arti ... ployments/

I'd check the source - I doubt that it is reservists that are firebombing military induction centers.....

Looks like its down to Vladimir P. and SD/SG against the world.... the last stand of the True Believers. Take a bow SD/SG, your zeal is commendable even if you can't tell the bad guys from the good guys

[SeattleGriz]

Huh. Now why would Russia sabotage their own pipeline, especially as the German sentiment has been obvious for a couple weeks now?

[Skjellyfetti]

Donbas Pincer plot twist.

[BDKJMU]

[SDHornet]

I don't really care what happens to Crimea, but it's been in Russia's hands since 2014 and that won't change barring NATO troops on the ground to take it from them.

Hmmm. I thought you were arguing there were already NATO boots on the ground. Don't tell me you were trying to parse the meaning of "official" in bad faith.

I've stated multiple times in this thread that Ukraine ain't getting that territory back without NATO boots on the ground...and I still stand by that.

[SDHornet]

Donbas Pincer plot twist.

Russians in Lyman encircled, Ukrainian Kherson counter offensive failed (per NTY article earlier this week). A tale of many fronts.

[SDHornet]

Huh. Now why would Russia sabotage their own pipeline, especially as the German sentiment has been obvious for a couple weeks now?

Yeah no sane person thinks Russia blew up their own pipeline.

[kalm]

[houndawg]

Pretty soon you'll be able to argue that Crimea is part of Russia and the Ukrainians are the invaders and those mass graves are a false flag deep state hoax.

I don't really care what happens to Crimea, but it's been in Russia's hands since 2014 and that won't change barring NATO troops on the ground to take it from them.

There are also Ukrainian mass graves but not for the reasons you want to believe.

Looks like thats exactly what could happen if NATO responds to Putin's annexation with an offer of NATO membership - I don't think that would be necessary after about two weeks of NATOs air power directed at Russia's excuse for a military. Even that air power may not be necessary if the Ukrainians guarantee GC treatment to all troops that present themselves to the nearest Ukrainian unit. It will be like Iraq, entire company's surrendering to a couple of PFCs in a Humvee.