The Ukraine Crisis

[∞∞∞]

First of all, dividing equally by congressional districts isn't how this works. The money comes from people, businesses, bonds, interest, etc. A small congressional district in Wyoming is not paying the same as a district in NYC, Los Angeles, Chicago, etc.

Second, as far as I understand, we've spent approximately 0.003% of our annual GDP in Ukraine and Russia has lost approximately 50% of its military capability. Let's say the estimates are wrong and it's significantly less (10% for arguments sake), that is still an incredible ROI. If it's anywhere close to 50%, it would have been stupid if not downright negligent not to make the investment.

Third, most aid was paid for years ago and specifically budgeted for use against Soviet and Russian capabilities. This isn't new debt.

We also sent things that were at the end of their shelf like; I'm happy giving Ukraine a $200K javelin if it takes out a $2M Russian tank.

[HI54UNI]

Congress wouldn't approve Rand Paul's push for an inspector general to monitor where the Ukraine money is going/being spent. Why not? Also Russia's entire military budget for 2023 is reported to be $84 billion.

[HI54UNI]

First of all, dividing equally by congressional districts isn't how this works. The money comes from people, businesses, bonds, interest, etc. A small congressional district in Wyoming is not paying the same as a district in NYC, Los Angeles, Chicago, etc.

Second, as far as I understand, we've spent approximately 0.003% of our annual GDP in Ukraine and Russia has lost approximately 50% of its military capability. Let's say the estimates are wrong and it's significantly less (10% for arguments sake), that is still an incredible ROI. If it's anywhere close to 50%, it would have been stupid if not downright negligent not to make the investment.

Third, most aid was paid for years ago and specifically budgeted for use against Soviet and Russian capabilities. This isn't new debt.

We also sent things that were at the end of their shelf like; I'm happy giving Ukraine a $200K javelin if it takes out a $2M Russian tank.

Regarding your first comment - as usual you miss the point.

Also love to see all the libs like you becoming neocons! Send somebody else's kid to die!


https://www.usdebtclock.org/

[HI54UNI]

Stock prices this year

General Dynamics up 22%
Northrup Grumman up 41%
Lockheed up 40%
Raytheon up 17%

[∞∞∞]

We've sent other peoples kids to die in Ukraine?

Honestly, the situation in Ukraine is fairly ideal from an American standpoint. Obviously no one wanted the war Russia created, but we've spent a small amount of money and resources (and zero soldiers) compared to our GDP while Russia keeps wasting its money, resources, and blood.

In turn, we've helped knock down a global superpower (and military rival) for the foreseeable future.

Russia can stop this anytime they want but choose not to. Let them suffer the consequences.

[kalm]

We've sent other peoples kids to die in Ukraine?

Honestly, the situation in Ukraine is fairly ideal from an American standpoint. Obviously no one wanted the war Russia created, but we've spent a small amount of money and resources (and zero soldiers) compared to our GDP while Russia keeps wasting its money, resources, and blood.

In turn, we've helped knock down a global superpower (and military rival) for the foreseeable future.

Russia can stop this anytime they want but choose not to. Let them suffer the consequences.

We’ve been pining for this since 1950. It’s been our focus.

[kalm]

First of all, dividing equally by congressional districts isn't how this works. The money comes from people, businesses, bonds, interest, etc. A small congressional district in Wyoming is not paying the same as a district in NYC, Los Angeles, Chicago, etc.

Second, as far as I understand, we've spent approximately 0.003% of our annual GDP in Ukraine and Russia has lost approximately 50% of its military capability. Let's say the estimates are wrong and it's significantly less (10% for arguments sake), that is still an incredible ROI. If it's anywhere close to 50%, it would have been stupid if not downright negligent not to make the investment.

Third, most aid was paid for years ago and specifically budgeted for use against Soviet and Russian capabilities. This isn't new debt.

We also sent things that were at the end of their shelf like; I'm happy giving Ukraine a $200K javelin if it takes out a $2M Russian tank.

Regarding your first comment - as usual you miss the point.

Also love to see all the libs like you becoming neocons! Send somebody else's kid to die!


https://www.usdebtclock.org/

It’s indeed an astounding reversal. Same with the let-freedom-ring republicans becoming fans of Russia.

[BDKJMU]

Part.of being a global superpower is exerting that power - when necessary - in order to spread our values, keep our influence, and maintain international order.

If you want the US to be isolated, that's fine, but understand we give up our sway across the world to China, Russia, Europe, etc.

And if you want the US to stay on top, you must acknowledge it comes with certain global responsibilities (including military and financial). IMO, for our own future security and economic well-being, it's better we protect Ukraine. It's a small investment in the grand scheme of our GDP/budget.

Again, I didn’t know you were such a huge fan of the the US Military Industrial Conplex.

[BDKJMU]

Stock prices this year

General Dynamics up 22%
Northrup Grumman up 41%
Lockheed up 40%
Raytheon up 17%

Trip loves that..

[∞∞∞]

Part.of being a global superpower is exerting that power - when necessary - in order to spread our values, keep our influence, and maintain international order.

If you want the US to be isolated, that's fine, but understand we give up our sway across the world to China, Russia, Europe, etc.

And if you want the US to stay on top, you must acknowledge it comes with certain global responsibilities (including military and financial). IMO, for our own future security and economic well-being, it's better we protect Ukraine. It's a small investment in the grand scheme of our GDP/budget.

Again, I didn’t know you were such a huge fan of the the US Military Industrial Conplex.

The US m.i.c. is useful when it is legitimately protects our values: freedom, democracy, human rights.

It is not acceptable to use as a strongman for corporate and political greed.

I don't understand why this is difficult to understand.

[SeattleGriz]

Do you think Europe is good with that? Keeping your house warm is pretty pricey over there right now.

Freedom and Liberty are pricey.

Yes, ask Iraq and Afghanistan how they enjoy their freedom and liberty.

[∞∞∞]

Freedom and Liberty are pricey.

Yes, ask Iraq and Afghanistan how they enjoy their freedom and liberty.

I believe that's Kalm's point.

Ukraine is about freedom; they asked for assistance to protect their existence as a nation and people.

Iraq and Afghanistan were us meddling in two other nation's affairs, under the pretense of 9/11, so the m.i.c. can make $$$.

Ukraine is a case of using our strength for good; the War on Terror is a case of using our strength for greed.

[UNI88]

Yes, ask Iraq and Afghanistan how they enjoy their freedom and liberty.

I believe that's Kalm's point.

Ukraine is about freedom; they asked for assistance to protect their existence as a nation and people.

Iraq and Afghanistan were us meddling in two other nation's affairs, under the pretense of 9/11, so the m.i.c. can make $$$.

Ukraine is a case of using our strength for good; the War on Terror is a case of using our strength for greed.

Afghanistan was different than Iraq. Afghanistan as a nation was harboring a terrorist organization that attacked the US and killed a lot of Americans on 9/11. In hindsight, our attempt at nation-building in Afghanistan was a failure but the reasoning behind the attack was valid.

We agree on Ukraine.

[∞∞∞]

I believe that's Kalm's point.

Ukraine is about freedom; they asked for assistance to protect their existence as a nation and people.

Iraq and Afghanistan were us meddling in two other nation's affairs, under the pretense of 9/11, so the m.i.c. can make $$$.

Ukraine is a case of using our strength for good; the War on Terror is a case of using our strength for greed.

Afghanistan was different than Iraq. Afghanistan as a nation was harboring a terrorist organization that attacked the US and killed a lot of Americans on 9/11. In hindsight, our attempt at nation-building in Afghanistan was a failure but the reasoning behind the attack was valid.

We agree on Ukraine.

Agreed. I was against the invasion of Afghanistan but there was reasonable justification behind it.

But it should have been a few months to a few years affair, at most. Not two decades.

At some point that war became a gravy train for the M.I.C.

[BDKJMU]

Yes, ask Iraq and Afghanistan how they enjoy their freedom and liberty.

I believe that's Kalm's point.

Ukraine is about freedom; they asked for assistance to protect their existence as a nation and people.

Iraq and Afghanistan were us meddling in two other nation's affairs, under the pretense of 9/11, so the m.i.c. can make $$$.

Ukraine is a case of using our strength for good; the War on Terror is a case of using our strength for greed.

Yeah, Ukraine is also about funneling vast sums of US taxpayer $$$ into a crooked, corrupt govt. Wonder how many Ukranian oligarchs are/will be getting filthy rich off US tax dollars..

[kalm]

I believe that's Kalm's point.

Ukraine is about freedom; they asked for assistance to protect their existence as a nation and people.

Iraq and Afghanistan were us meddling in two other nation's affairs, under the pretense of 9/11, so the m.i.c. can make $$$.

Ukraine is a case of using our strength for good; the War on Terror is a case of using our strength for greed.

Yeah, Ukraine is also about funneling vast sums of US taxpayer $$$ into a crooked, corrupt govt. Wonder how many Ukranian oligarchs are/will be getting filthy rich off US tax dollars..

Nearly every country has corruption/oligarchs including ours. You do know Zalenskyy came into power on an anti-corruption campaign?

[∞∞∞]

Yeah, Ukraine is also about funneling vast sums of US taxpayer $$$ into a crooked, corrupt govt. Wonder how many Ukranian oligarchs are/will be getting filthy rich off US tax dollars..

Nearly every country try has corruption/oligarchs including ours. You do know Zallensky came into power on an anti-corruption campaign?

Speaking of corruption, let's not forget the prior President was impeached because he held hostage aid to Ukraine...

...and he along with his merry band of grifters have deep ties to Russian banks, businesses, and oligarchs.

[UNI88]

Nearly every country try has corruption/oligarchs including ours. You do know Zallensky came into power on an anti-corruption campaign?

Speaking of corruption, let's not forget the prior President was impeached because he held hostage aid to Ukraine...

...and he along with his merry band of grifters have deep ties to Russian banks, businesses, and oligarchs.

Our current President and his merry band of grifters have ties to Ukrainian, Chinese and who knows what other banks, businesses, and oligarchs.

[∞∞∞]

Speaking of corruption, let's not forget the prior President was impeached because he held hostage aid to Ukraine...

...and he along with his merry band of grifters have deep ties to Russian banks, businesses, and oligarchs.

Our current President and his merry band of grifters have ties to Ukrainian, Chinese and who knows what other banks, businesses, and oligarchs.

Evidence?

There's been quite the paper trail published for Trump, between congressional committees, the Muller report, and the New York investigation. I've yet to see actual evidence for Biden's corruption besides conservatives shouting "bUt hUnTeR's LaPtoP."

It helps Biden releases his tax returns, put his investments into a blind trust, and released his portfolio statements.

edit: either way, Congress is approving the money for Ukraine.

[UNI88]

Our current President and his merry band of grifters have ties to Ukrainian, Chinese and who knows what other banks, businesses, and oligarchs.

Evidence?

There's been quite the paper trail published for Trump, between congressional committees, the Muller report, and the New York investigation. I've yet to see actual evidence for Biden's corruption besides conservatives shouting "bUt hUnTeR's LaPtoP."

It helps Biden releases his tax returns, put his investments into a blind trust, and released his portfolio statements.

How much did Hunter get paid by the Ukrainian company? That was a bribe for access. Maybe it wasn't illegal (big maybe depending on who the "big guy" is) but it was definitely unethical. How much did Hunter get paid for his paintings? How many starting artists make that kind of money. Way to much smoke around Hunter and Joe for me to think there isn't a fire.

I think trump (and Hillary) is one of the most corrupt politicians in modern US history but Biden is far from clean. Not as bad as trump can still be extremely bad.

[∞∞∞]

Evidence?

There's been quite the paper trail published for Trump, between congressional committees, the Muller report, and the New York investigation. I've yet to see actual evidence for Biden's corruption besides conservatives shouting "bUt hUnTeR's LaPtoP."

It helps Biden releases his tax returns, put his investments into a blind trust, and released his portfolio statements.

How much did Hunter get paid by the Ukrainian company? That was a bribe for access. Maybe it wasn't illegal (big maybe depending on who the "big guy" is) but it was definitely unethical. How much did Hunter get paid for his paintings? How many starting artists make that kind of money. Way to much smoke around Hunter and Joe for me to think there isn't a fire.

I think trump (and Hillary) is one of the most corrupt politicians in modern US history but Biden is far from clean. Not as bad as trump can still be extremely bad.

It's a lot of words to say you have no evidence.

[BDKJMU]

Nearly every country try has corruption/oligarchs including ours. You do know Zallensky came into power on an anti-corruption campaign?

Speaking of corruption, let's not forget the prior President was impeached because he held hostage aid to Ukraine...

...and he along with his merry band of grifters have deep ties to Russian banks, businesses, and oligarchs.

You mean Biden who as VP threatened to have aid to Ukraine witheld if the Ukranian chief prosecutor who was investigating the company that the Hunter was working for wasn’t fired..And Biden is on video admitting it.

[UNI88]

How much did Hunter get paid by the Ukrainian company? That was a bribe for access. Maybe it wasn't illegal (big maybe depending on who the "big guy" is) but it was definitely unethical. How much did Hunter get paid for his paintings? How many starting artists make that kind of money. Way to much smoke around Hunter and Joe for me to think there isn't a fire.

I think trump (and Hillary) is one of the most corrupt politicians in modern US history but Biden is far from clean. Not as bad as trump can still be extremely bad.

It's a lot of words to say you have no evidence.

Why did Burisma pay Hunter $83,333 a month to sit on its board? Did he bring knowledge or skills that justified the position and the pay? Why was the amount reduced (but was still higher than other directors) soon after the end of the Obama administration? Could it have been a bribe for access to his dad?

How much did Hunter and his companies get from Chinese companies? Does he have knowledge or skills that justify the payments?

There is significantly more evidence of Hunter malfeasance than there is that trump is a fascist but kalm and a whole lot of your compatriots keep trotting that pony around the track.

[∞∞∞]

Trump and the current GOP are fascists and I will gladly trot that out every time because it's worth defending against.

Play this "middle" game all you want until people like BDK ban women's rights, LGBTQ people, books, ideas, religious freedoms; or attack the seat of government; or call for the death of elected representatives; or question, undermine, and block our elections. Oh wait...

But yeah, all sides are the same.

[UNI88]

Trump and the current GOP are fascists and I will gladly trot that out every time because it's worth defending against.

Play this "middle" game all you want until people like BDK ban women's rights, LGBTQ people, books, ideas, religious freedoms; or attack the seat of government; or call for the death of elected representatives; or question, undermine, and block our elections. Oh wait...

But yeah, all sides are the same.

Fascists are worth defending against. trump is worth defending against. But trump and the current GOP are not fascists. Not all wannabe cultural conservatives, playing on people's fears are fascists. To push that narrative is to play on people's fears.