2020 General Election

[kalm]

First, this is what I warned about when criticizing the Homeland Security presence and tactics in Portland. What the government does against those who you are ideologically opposed to can also be done to you.

Second, Ben Rhodes might want to consider the possibility that "national security" and "Homeland Security" officials might not respond to the request to "detox" in the way he hopes.

He’s right. It is a cult driven national security issue and it ain’t going away. Frank Figluizzi was on Maher Friday and pretty much said the same thing. What the dirty hippies down your way are doing notwithstanding.

[UNI88]

First, this is what I warned about when criticizing the Homeland Security presence and tactics in Portland. What the government does against those who you are ideologically opposed to can also be done to you.

Second, Ben Rhodes might want to consider the possibility that "national security" and "Homeland Security" officials might not respond to the request to "detox" in the way he hopes.

He’s right. I think it is a cult driven national security issue and it ain’t going away. Frank Figluizzi was on Maher Friday and pretty much said the same thing. What the dirty hippies down your way are doing notwithstanding.

FYP - I think socialism/marxism is a cult driven national security issue. When are we going to detox those assholes?

[kalm]

He’s right. I think it is a cult driven national security issue and it ain’t going away. Frank Figluizzi was on Maher Friday and pretty much said the same thing. What the dirty hippies down your way are doing notwithstanding.

FYP - I think socialism/marxism is a cult driven national security issue. When are we going to detox those assholes?

So is capitalism also a cult?

And when are the neo-marxists going to storm the capital and attempt to use the DOJ to over-turn an election?

Should I buy more franks and beans?

[kalm]

Babies...don’t let your mommas grow up to be insurrectionists...

My wife often describes her job as dealing with “tourists and terrorists.” Any shift could mean helping lost visitors navigate the building or confronting, hands-on, individuals who attempt to endanger Congress — or both. She knew what she was getting into when she took her oath to safeguard the Capitol: long hours, constant risk.

The morning of the electoral vote count, I glanced out my window, just a few blocks south of the National Mall. Seeing the people headed to the Jan. 6 event, waving Trump flags and thin blue line flags, I thought of my mom. She and I don’t keep in touch — our differences are too great, and that gulf has only widened as she got into the far-right Internet — but I wondered whether she, who lives 1,450 miles away in Texas, might be among the marchers. I checked her YouTube channel, where she posts hour-long videos spreading conspiracy theories. Sure enough, a live stream showed she was just down the street, at President Donald Trump’s rally near the White House.

I texted a joke to my wife — you might run into your mother-in-law today, be prepared — then tried to put it out of my mind. (Knowing my mom’s beliefs, my wife was not surprised, but she kept an eye out as she started her morning patrol; she didn’t see her.) I switched off my mom’s footage of herself maskless, dancing in the streets. But then I watched Trump’s speech from the rally, telling his followers to “fight like hell.” “You’ll never take back our country with weakness,” he said. At that moment, I realized just how many people were in attendance — and that they were headed down Pennsylvania Avenue to the Capitol.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... -mom-riot/

[UNI88]

FYP - I think socialism/marxism is a cult driven national security issue. When are we going to detox those assholes?

So is capitalism also a cult?

And when are the neo-marxists going to storm the capital and attempt to use the DOJ to over-turn an election?

Should I buy more ammo franks and beans?

Capitalism isn't perfect but the innovations and improvements in quality of life that it has fostered are proven. I'm not sure I would call believing in something that has worked a cult. Socialism/marxism has a history of failure and misery but people continue to think that it is the solution we need. What did Einstein say - “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.”

That is the crux of your argument, that only the MAGAts stormed the Capitol and because of that, they are different and more dangerous. You think it was an attempt at an American Krystallnacht and I think it was a display of anger and bumbling incompetence. Punish the individuals who participated, not every conservative. Punishing people for what they believe is a bigger step down the road toward authoritarianism than anything that Trump did.

We should be punishing people who engage in or instigate violence regardless of their political motivation.

I've never had an ammo frank, is it kind of like an Armour hotdog? Punctuation is important. Is the education in Eastern Washington that bad? Maybe you should move to Central Washington, I heard the qualify of education there is headed up.

I've never owned a gun in my life but I am seriously thinking about buying a couple. I will not go quietly if an AnTiFa thug comes to take me in for "detox".

We need to stop telling people what to think and focus on teaching them how to think. Diversity of opinion is just as relevant and important as diversity of skin color, gender, etc.

[kalm]

So is capitalism also a cult?

And when are the neo-marxists going to storm the capital and attempt to use the DOJ to over-turn an election?

Should I buy more ammo franks and beans?

Capitalism isn't perfect but the innovations and improvements in quality of life that it has fostered are proven. I'm not sure I would call believing in something that has worked a cult. Socialism/marxism has a history of failure and misery but people continue to think that it is the solution we need. What did Einstein say - “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.”

That is the crux of your argument, that only the MAGAts stormed the Capitol and because of that, they are different and more dangerous. You think it was an attempt at an American Krystallnacht and I think it was a display of anger and bumbling incompetence. Punish the individuals who participated, not every conservative. Punishing people for what they believe is a bigger step down the road toward authoritarianism than anything that Trump did.

We should be punishing people who engage in or instigate violence regardless of their political motivation.

I've never had an ammo frank, is it kind of like an Armour hotdog? Punctuation is important. Is the education in Eastern Washington that bad? Maybe you should move to Central Washington, I heard the qualify of education there is headed up.

I've never owned a gun in my life but I am seriously thinking about buying a couple. I will not go quietly if an AnTiFa thug comes to take me in for "detox".

We need to stop telling people what to think and focus on teaching them how to think. Diversity of opinion is just as relevant and important as diversity of skin color, gender, etc.

Do you really think I disagree with this in general?

Another thing Figliuzzi mentioned was coordination of the attack by those at the front. He alleged some of them were pros and the presence of ear pieces.

You think I downplay the threat of anarchists. I think you downplay the threat from ya’ll Queda. The latter is the more immediate, heavily armed, and represented by national politicians threat. Similar to Covid denial and Antifa, they are begging for more government. That’s not a good thing and I refuse to allow either a seat at any table.

We should both listen more.

[kalm]

So is capitalism also a cult?

And when are the neo-marxists going to storm the capital and attempt to use the DOJ to over-turn an election?

Should I buy more ammo franks and beans?

Capitalism isn't perfect but the innovations and improvements in quality of life that it has fostered are proven. I'm not sure I would call believing in something that has worked a cult. Socialism/marxism has a history of failure and misery but people continue to think that it is the solution we need. What did Einstein say - “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.”

That is the crux of your argument, that only the MAGAts stormed the Capitol and because of that, they are different and more dangerous. You think it was an attempt at an American Krystallnacht and I think it was a display of anger and bumbling incompetence. Punish the individuals who participated, not every conservative. Punishing people for what they believe is a bigger step down the road toward authoritarianism than anything that Trump did.

We should be punishing people who engage in or instigate violence regardless of their political motivation.

I've never had an ammo frank, is it kind of like an Armour hotdog? Punctuation is important. Is the education in Eastern Washington that bad? Maybe you should move to Central Washington, I heard the qualify of education there is headed up.

I've never owned a gun in my life but I am seriously thinking about buying a couple. I will not go quietly if an AnTiFa thug comes to take me in for "detox".

We need to stop telling people what to think and focus on teaching them how to think. Diversity of opinion is just as relevant and important as diversity of skin color, gender, etc.

I crossed ammosexual and franks and beans.

It’s a natural fit. Go with it.

[UNI88]

Capitalism isn't perfect but the innovations and improvements in quality of life that it has fostered are proven. I'm not sure I would call believing in something that has worked a cult. Socialism/marxism has a history of failure and misery but people continue to think that it is the solution we need. What did Einstein say - “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.”

That is the crux of your argument, that only the MAGAts stormed the Capitol and because of that, they are different and more dangerous. You think it was an attempt at an American Krystallnacht and I think it was a display of anger and bumbling incompetence. Punish the individuals who participated, not every conservative. Punishing people for what they believe is a bigger step down the road toward authoritarianism than anything that Trump did.

We should be punishing people who engage in or instigate violence regardless of their political motivation.

I've never had an ammo frank, is it kind of like an Armour hotdog? Punctuation is important. Is the education in Eastern Washington that bad? Maybe you should move to Central Washington, I heard the qualify of education there is headed up.

I've never owned a gun in my life but I am seriously thinking about buying a couple. I will not go quietly if an AnTiFa thug comes to take me in for "detox".

We need to stop telling people what to think and focus on teaching them how to think. Diversity of opinion is just as relevant and important as diversity of skin color, gender, etc.

Do you really think I disagree with this in general?

Another thing Figliuzzi mentioned was coordination of the attack by those at the front. He alleged some of them were pros and the presence of ear pieces.

You think I downplay the threat of anarchists. I think you downplay the threat from ya’ll Queda. The latter is the more immediate, heavily armed, and represented by national politicians threat. Similar to Covid denial and Antifa, they are begging for more government. That’s not a good thing and I refuse to allow either a seat at any table.

We should both listen more.

Our individual views and biases impact how we evaluate and prioritize threats. Self-reflection and understanding is a good thing.

[SDHornet]

[BDKJMU]

A little late..
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... 9zDY2JhFG0
PA has the same exact thing- ballots could arrive 3 days after the election with no postmark...

[Skjellyfetti]

A little late..
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... 9zDY2JhFG0
PA has the same exact thing- ballots could arrive 3 days after the election with no postmark...

The ballots without a postmark after election day weren't counted in Virginia due to an October ruling that the more recent ruling upheld.

Biden won Virginia by ~500k votes. If there were anywhere close to 500k ballots that arrived without postmarks after election day and were counted.... You'd have a point.

[SDHornet]

A little late..
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... 9zDY2JhFG0
PA has the same exact thing- ballots could arrive 3 days after the election with no postmark...

The ballots without a postmark after election day weren't counted in Virginia due to an October ruling that the more recent ruling upheld.

Biden won Virginia by ~500k votes. If there were anywhere close to 500k ballots that arrived without postmarks after election day and were counted.... You'd have a point.

Uh no, the point is the rules were illegally changed. You're really not good at this.

[Skjellyfetti]

I thought his point was that it was "a little late." It was ruled on in October and the votes were counted.

It wasn't clear that it was illegal until a judge ruled on it. You know, presented arguments and facts... something the Trump campaign failed to do. And, it was decided *before* the election and had no impact on who Virginia voted for.

[SDHornet]

I thought his point was that it was "a little late." It was ruled on in October and the votes were counted.

It wasn't clear that it was illegal until a judge ruled on it. You know, presented arguments and facts... something the Trump campaign failed to do. And, it was decided *before* the election and had no impact on who Virginia voted for.

Lol, you mean the cases regarding this issue that wouldn't be heard. Like I said, you really aren't good at this.

[kalm]

I thought his point was that it was "a little late." It was ruled on in October and the votes were counted.

It wasn't clear that it was illegal until a judge ruled on it. You know, presented arguments and facts... something the Trump campaign failed to do. And, it was decided *before* the election and had no impact on who Virginia voted for.

Lol, you mean the cases regarding this issue that wouldn't be heard. Like I said, you really aren't good at this.

They would have been heard if they had merit, or the plaintiffs had standing, or the remedy didn’t disenfranchise 49 other states.

[SDHornet]

Lol, you mean the cases regarding this issue that wouldn't be heard. Like I said, you really aren't good at this.

They would have been heard if they had merit, or the plaintiffs had standing, or the remedy didn’t disenfranchise 49 other states.

Wait, so cases about the legality of the election changes were finally heard and ruled illegal, but the initial claims regarding the legality of election changes weren't heard so they weren't illegal? Mmmkay.

[UNI88]

Lol, you mean the cases regarding this issue that wouldn't be heard. Like I said, you really aren't good at this.

They would have been heard if they had merit, or the plaintiffs had standing, or the remedy didn’t disenfranchise 49 other states.

Supreme Chaos in Pennsylvania Voting

The state’s high court rewrites the law to extend ballot counting.

Three days late, and no postmark needed: That’s the ruling on mail votes from the Pennsylvania Supreme Court. State law clearly says absentee ballots must be received by 8 p.m. on Election Day. But on Thursday the court controlled by Democrats, in a case filed by Democrats, rewrote the law in a 4-3 vote, with four Democrats in the majority, 47 days before Nov. 3.

I don't think it would change the outcome but there is no doubt in my mind that the court overstepped its authority. The fact that this happened should bother everyone. The reality that so many people don't care is even more troubling.

[SeattleGriz]

Lol, you mean the cases regarding this issue that wouldn't be heard. Like I said, you really aren't good at this.

They would have been heard if they had merit, or the plaintiffs had standing, or the remedy didn’t disenfranchise 49 other states.

Not following your 49 state disenfranchisement statement. Can you expand on that?

[Skjellyfetti]

Lol, you mean the cases regarding this issue that wouldn't be heard. Like I said, you really aren't good at this.

Which ones wouldn't be heard?

Is it like this one that was dismissed because they could not establish standing but, *also* because they "failed to provide the Court with factual support for their extraordinary claims."


https://www.democracydocket.com/wp-cont ... ng-MTD.pdf

[kalm]

They would have been heard if they had merit, or the plaintiffs had standing, or the remedy didn’t disenfranchise 49 other states.

Supreme Chaos in Pennsylvania Voting

The state’s high court rewrites the law to extend ballot counting.

Three days late, and no postmark needed: That’s the ruling on mail votes from the Pennsylvania Supreme Court. State law clearly says absentee ballots must be received by 8 p.m. on Election Day. But on Thursday the court controlled by Democrats, in a case filed by Democrats, rewrote the law in a 4-3 vote, with four Democrats in the majority, 47 days before Nov. 3.

I don't think it would change the outcome but there is no doubt in my mind that the court overstepped its authority. The fact that this happened should bother everyone. The reality that so many people don't care is even more troubling.

Within the ruling, the court also recognized the potential for extenuating circumstances (Covid as experienced during the primary). My amateur take is the desire to count every vote sets a high bar. The law was written in 2019 and did not anticipate every contingency including requests for mail in ballots and slower delivery times.

Getting the outcome right is more important than procedural nit picking during an unforeseen pandemic. Throw in the national impact and the bar is that much higher.

[kalm]

They would have been heard if they had merit, or the plaintiffs had standing, or the remedy didn’t disenfranchise 49 other states.

Wait, so cases about the legality of the election changes were finally heard and ruled illegal, but the initial claims regarding the legality of election changes weren't heard so they weren't illegal? Mmmkay.

Do you think there was some conspiracy to delay the proceedings? They still had time for SCOTUS to rule on it.

[kalm]

They would have been heard if they had merit, or the plaintiffs had standing, or the remedy didn’t disenfranchise 49 other states.

Not following your 49 state disenfranchisement statement. Can you expand on that?

Wasn’t Team Trump attempting to have select states thrown out or have new elections?

[SeattleGriz]

Not following your 49 state disenfranchisement statement. Can you expand on that?

Wasn’t Team Trump attempting to have select states thrown out or have new elections?

Don't believe he was looking to have any states thrown out. He was looking to have certain votes thrown out, and for reasons such as you guys are talking about. Rule changes made outside the normal process, such as state legislatures.

In fact, you could argue that I have been disenfranchised. I met every rule to vote legally here in Washington and allowing other votes to count that did not meet the same rigor has "diluted" my vote.

[JohnStOnge]

Wasn’t Team Trump attempting to have select states thrown out or have new elections?

Don't believe he was looking to have any states thrown out. He was looking to have certain votes thrown out, and for reasons such as you guys are talking about. Rule changes made outside the normal process, such as state legislatures.

In fact, you could argue that I have been disenfranchised. I met every rule to vote legally here in Washington and allowing other votes to count that did not meet the same rigor has "diluted" my vote.

He was indeed trying to have election results for entire states thrown out. He tried to get State legislatures to take over and replace the slates of electors selected by voters with Trump electors picked by the legislatures. He did do that.

Also, the arbiters of whether election law was violated so that votes should be thrown our are the State courts. There was cases related to that. They failed.

[JohnStOnge]

There is an American Bar Association summary of election-related court cases at https://www.americanbar.org/.../electio ... itigation/. If you do a "find" on the word "fraud" and work your way through you can see there are a number of cases in which fraud was alleged and courts decided there was not sufficient evidence of it.

The point of this is that it means that when Republican politicians and others say courts did not consider evidence of fraud they are either lying or they are horribly ignorant. Yes, a number of cases were dismissed on the basis of other things like lack of standing. But the idea that evidence of fraud was never considered is objectively false. I picked a quote from one summary,
Law v. Whitmer, No. 20 OC 00163 1B (Carson City Dist. Ct.), because it is very clearly stated (all-capitals added for emphasis):

"THE REPUBLICAN CONTESTANTS ALLEGED various election administration irregularities and VOTER FRAUD, from problems with the provisional ballot-casting process to mismatched signatures being accepted by the ballot machines. The Democratic defendants filed a motion to dismiss the statement of contest. The First Judicial District Court for Carson City, Nevada granted the defendants’ motion to dismiss, HOLDING THAT THE REPUBLICAN CONTESTANTS 'FAILED TO MEET THEIR BURDEN TO PROVIDE CREDIBLE AND RELEVANT EVIDENCE to substantiate any of the grounds set forth [by state statute] to contest the November 3, 2020 General Election.”'

That one instance is enough to nuke the false claim that purported evidence of fraud was never considered. But there are more.