2020 General Election

[89Hen]

I don't think many elections would produce a "big" spread.

You haven't been watching the news. Biden won by a Brazilian votes.

[UNI88]

I don't pretend that it's easy or that a simple solution exists, but I also don't want to pretend that our electoral system is in good shape either. We could have massive fraud (intentional) or massive error (unintentional) and we don't seem to have any way to either detect or correct that it is happening. We can't even go back after the fact to check because we just don't have the records and that level of detail. We're not terribly far away from my example in PA, again, just 4 years ago, where I would turn on a bunch of lights, hit a button that said "cast your vote", and that would be it. No idea of who I voted for, no way to check that my votes were tabulated at all let alone correctly. We reverted to a paper system this year and the forms were scanned in, so that's better, but still doesn't answer the question about voter rolls and verification of who the voter was. We can (or at least should) do better.

-Maintain accurate voter rolls by having them constantly updated 24/7/365.
-Like most 1st world countries, no mail in ballots except for those overseas and a few other limited exceptions
-Like most 1st world countries, require ID for everyone.
-Full audits afterward.

We live in a digital age. Why do we need to drag our knuckles on the ground to go to a physical polling location? If financial institution verify someone's identity online so can the government. Put Ibanez in charge of developing an online election system - one citizen, one vote. Use polling locations for those without the hardware or connectivity needed to vote online.

[UNI88]

I don't think many elections would produce a "big" spread.

You haven't been watching the news. Biden won by a Brazilian votes.

It was a landslide and he has a mandate from the people!

[GannonFan]

-Maintain accurate voter rolls by having them constantly updated 24/7/365.
-Like most 1st world countries, no mail in ballots except for those overseas and a few other limited exceptions
-Like most 1st world countries, require ID for everyone.
-Full audits afterward.

We live in a digital age. Why do we need to drag our knuckles on the ground to go to a physical polling location? If financial institution verify someone's identity online so can the government. Put Ibanez in charge of developing an online election system - one citizen, one vote. Use polling locations for those without the hardware or connectivity needed to vote online.

I agree, I'm not against mail-in ballots - I don't care that Europe is anti mail-in ballots. They're smaller countries, they don't have the wide swaths of land that we do, and I'm sure a host of other differences. We've proven that in some places (Utah for instance, and I think Oregon) that they can work and be effective. We've also proven (in PA for instance, in CA) that if we don't have any significant regulations on them that it can be a free for all. The fact that ballot harvesting can still happen is mind boggling. Just implement the system properly, with the required controls and checks, and it would work fine. Again, another issue that the left and the right have bungled in their ever constant need to screw each other.

[BDKJMU]

-Maintain accurate voter rolls by having them constantly updated 24/7/365.
-Like most 1st world countries, no mail in ballots except for those overseas and a few other limited exceptions
-Like most 1st world countries, require ID for everyone.
-Full audits afterward.

We live in a digital age. Why do we need to drag our knuckles on the ground to go to a physical polling location? If financial institution verify someone's identity online so can the government. Put Ibanez in charge of developing an online election system - one citizen, one vote. Use polling locations for those without the hardware or connectivity needed to vote online.

Why do you insist on being lazy? The horror at having to pull your face out of a video screen, and actually having to get up and go to your neighborhood polling location..

[UNI88]

We live in a digital age. Why do we need to drag our knuckles on the ground to go to a physical polling location? If financial institution verify someone's identity online so can the government. Put Ibanez in charge of developing an online election system - one citizen, one vote. Use polling locations for those without the hardware or connectivity needed to vote online.

Why do you insist on being lazy? The horror at having to pull your face out of a video screen, and actually having to get up and go to your neighborhood polling location..

That's

Are you lazy if you use a calculator rather than pencil and paper?
Are you lazy if you drive to work rather than walking or riding a bike?
Are you lazy if you use a ride-on mower rather than a reel mower?

We have the technology and used properly it would make voting easier and more secure.

But thanks for confirming that you are a knuckle dragging Neanderthal.

[89Hen]

used properly it would make voting... more secure.

[BDKJMU]

Why do you insist on being lazy? The horror at having to pull your face out of a video screen, and actually having to get up and go to your neighborhood polling location..

That's

Are you lazy if you use a calculator rather than pencil and paper?
Are you lazy if you drive to work rather than walking or riding a bike?
Are you lazy if you use a ride-on mower rather than a reel mower?

We have the technology and used properly it would make voting easier and more secure.

But thanks for confirming that you are a knuckle dragging Neanderthal.

If you believe that then you're a lot dumber than a think you are...

[UNI88]

That's

Are you lazy if you use a calculator rather than pencil and paper?
Are you lazy if you drive to work rather than walking or riding a bike?
Are you lazy if you use a ride-on mower rather than a reel mower?

We have the technology and used properly it would make voting easier and more secure.

But thanks for confirming that you are a knuckle dragging Neanderthal.

If you believe that then you're a lot dumber than a think you are...

I don't know, how dumb does "a" think I am?

And who the hell is "a" to be able to judge my intelligence. Sh!t, I know that 21 divided by 7 is 6.93.

[BDKJMU]

used properly it would make voting... more secure.

Yeah.
6 or so years ago it was discovered the govt's OPM was hacked a couple years prior, which resulted in the compromising of the personal info of tens of millions of govt employees, contractors, and people who were listed on forms for security clearances, going back years.
https://www.csoonline.com/article/33182 ... erica.html

Just recently the govt's National Finance Center was hacked, where possibly info for hundreds of thousands of govt employees was compromised. The NFC doesn't just handdle payroll for USDA. They also handle it for other fed departments as well.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cybe ... SKBN2A22K8

Yet 88 believes 50 govt run computer voting systems will make voting more secure..yeah..

[BDKJMU]

Taken from an official FBI charging document.

[SDHornet]

We live in a digital age. Why do we need to drag our knuckles on the ground to go to a physical polling location? If financial institution verify someone's identity online so can the government. Put Ibanez in charge of developing an online election system - one citizen, one vote. Use polling locations for those without the hardware or connectivity needed to vote online.

I agree, I'm not against mail-in ballots - I don't care that Europe is anti mail-in ballots. They're smaller countries, they don't have the wide swaths of land that we do, and I'm sure a host of other differences. We've proven that in some places (Utah for instance, and I think Oregon) that they can work and be effective. We've also proven (in PA for instance, in CA) that if we don't have any significant regulations on them that it can be a free for all. The fact that ballot harvesting can still happen is mind boggling. Just implement the system properly, with the required controls and checks, and it would work fine. Again, another issue that the left and the right have bungled in their ever constant need to screw each other.

Europe doesn't do it because of the risk of fraud. Has nothing to do with geography.

That said I don't have a problem with absentee voting as there is some measures of verification (or should be). The mass vote by mail is the issue, and that shouldn't be allowed.

I'm also ok with a tech savy/secure way of voting done in the method Ibanez explain a while back.

[AZGrizFan]

We live in a digital age. Why do we need to drag our knuckles on the ground to go to a physical polling location? If financial institution verify someone's identity online so can the government. Put Ibanez in charge of developing an online election system - one citizen, one vote. Use polling locations for those without the hardware or connectivity needed to vote online.

I agree, I'm not against mail-in ballots - I don't care that Europe is anti mail-in ballots. They're smaller countries, they don't have the wide swaths of land that we do, and I'm sure a host of other differences. We've proven that in some places (Utah for instance, and I think Oregon) that they can work and be effective. We've also proven (in PA for instance, in CA) that if we don't have any significant regulations on them that it can be a free for all. The fact that ballot harvesting can still happen is mind boggling. Just implement the system properly, with the required controls and checks, and it would work fine. Again, another issue that the left and the right have bungled in their ever constant need to screw each other.

One major difference. Banking is not political. Elections are. Whoever controls the “controls and checks” controls the outcome of the election. And whoever “that” is, is going to lean politically one way or the other. With power comes corruption...I think you can figure out the rest.

[Gil Dobie]

I agree, I'm not against mail-in ballots - I don't care that Europe is anti mail-in ballots. They're smaller countries, they don't have the wide swaths of land that we do, and I'm sure a host of other differences. We've proven that in some places (Utah for instance, and I think Oregon) that they can work and be effective. We've also proven (in PA for instance, in CA) that if we don't have any significant regulations on them that it can be a free for all. The fact that ballot harvesting can still happen is mind boggling. Just implement the system properly, with the required controls and checks, and it would work fine. Again, another issue that the left and the right have bungled in their ever constant need to screw each other.

One major difference. Banking is not political. Elections are. Whoever controls the “controls and checks” controls the outcome of the election. And whoever “that” is, is going to lean politically one way or the other. With power comes corruption...I think you can figure out the rest.

Someone in banking has their stinky fingers in politics, per the Bush/Obama bailouts. Let's bailout banks and the auto industry, and let the American people work their way out or this one.

[SeattleGriz]

Word out is that Officer Sicknick did not die due to being hit in the head with a fire extinguisher. Apparently couldn't find any blunt force trauma and have been unable to locate any proof.

There was a fire extinguisher thrown, but the person who did it has been arrested. Seems the stories were conflated.

[kalm]

There are three types of people in this world. Those who are good with numbers and those who aren’t. I’m clearly in the third category.

All I know is that large scale data shows some “signals” and “noise” that the analysts get all geeky about.

Hey, I'm no elections expert (I'm just a lowly ChemE), but I do know that it's hard to analyze data if you don't actually have the relevant data to analyze. No matter how geeky you are. As we've seen with just the COVID crisis, our ability to gather data and report on it is woefully inadequate, and with COVID that is related to a literal matter of life and death on a daily basis. We're far less capable on more mundane matters that only really come up once every 4 years.

Agreed, but with Covid some of the data inconsistencies lies in how it’s reported by media and how it’s consumed with bias to manipulate. In other words part of analysis is diffusing background noise.

To me, it’s amazing how accurate some of the predictions for both Covid and real time election results have actually been.

[kalm]

I agree, I'm not against mail-in ballots - I don't care that Europe is anti mail-in ballots. They're smaller countries, they don't have the wide swaths of land that we do, and I'm sure a host of other differences. We've proven that in some places (Utah for instance, and I think Oregon) that they can work and be effective. We've also proven (in PA for instance, in CA) that if we don't have any significant regulations on them that it can be a free for all. The fact that ballot harvesting can still happen is mind boggling. Just implement the system properly, with the required controls and checks, and it would work fine. Again, another issue that the left and the right have bungled in their ever constant need to screw each other.

One major difference. Banking is not political. Elections are. Whoever controls the “controls and checks” controls the outcome of the election. And whoever “that” is, is going to lean politically one way or the other. With power comes corruption...I think you can figure out the rest.

For a second there I thought you said banking is not political.

[Pwns]

Phew. Democracy is saved.

[kalm]

Anyone catch the Pillow Fight movie? 90 second opening credits disclaimer from OANN...”yeah we’re airing it...for 12 straight hours...but we want our viewers to know it’s all bullshit...not that they’re the disclaimer reading type...”



https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/05/arts ... BXJK_BVk3A

[AZGrizFan]

One major difference. Banking is not political. Elections are. Whoever controls the “controls and checks” controls the outcome of the election. And whoever “that” is, is going to lean politically one way or the other. With power comes corruption...I think you can figure out the rest.

Someone in banking has their stinky fingers in politics, per the Bush/Obama bailouts. Let's bailout banks and the auto industry, and let the American people work their way out or this one.

Yes, but THOSE people, and those issues are far, far removed from the identity controls and checks necessary and performed in personal and business banking. That’s my point. In politics, the two would be completely connected. Just like the questioning of who built the voting machines and what their political leanings were, we;d have that problem magnified by 1000 if we tried to go to totally electronic, online voting.

[AZGrizFan]

One major difference. Banking is not political. Elections are. Whoever controls the “controls and checks” controls the outcome of the election. And whoever “that” is, is going to lean politically one way or the other. With power comes corruption...I think you can figure out the rest.

For a second there I thought you said banking is not political.

Try and keep up, klammy. There’s a big difference between personal banking and the controls and checks necessary to safeguard/validate identities and the political side of banking that works towards less/softer/easier regulations. It was the controls and checks aspect that 88 was referring to and that I was attempting to explain the difference too.

I know, too nuanced for you.

[kalm]

For a second there I thought you said banking is not political.

Try and keep up, klammy. There’s a big difference between personal banking and the controls and checks necessary to safeguard/validate identities and the political side of banking that works towards less/softer/easier regulations. It was the controls and checks aspect that 88 was referring to and that I was attempting to explain the different too.

I know, too nuanced for you.

I know...it’s just that you said “banking is not political”.



How can we remove the politics out of voting access, security, and counting?

[SeattleGriz]

Gotta love Time magazine trying to get their preferred election narrative out there before Trump's Senate trial. Like clockwork.

[AZGrizFan]

Try and keep up, klammy. There’s a big difference between personal banking and the controls and checks necessary to safeguard/validate identities and the political side of banking that works towards less/softer/easier regulations. It was the controls and checks aspect that 88 was referring to and that I was attempting to explain the different too.

I know, too nuanced for you.

I know...it’s just that you said “banking is not political”.



How can we remove the politics out of voting access, security, and counting?

To answer your question, I’m not sure its possible. No matter WHO builds/maintains/manages the access/security aspects of an electronic, online system it will be considered political and (at this point in our history) they will automatically NOT be trusted by whatever side they don’t appear to be on.

[SeattleGriz]

Interesting. Only need to watch the first 2 1/2 minutes to catch a fact I was unaware of. If you remove four instances of huge biden vote dumps, Trump wins.

Outside if that tidbit, it's a pretty good overview of what happened.

Sorta shoots the whole "fraud would have to be perpetrated on a massive scale" rebuttal in the ass.